Star Wars Kid Cuts a Deal With His Tormentors 865
An anonymous reader writes "Ghyslain Raza, who gained instant online fame as the 'Star Wars Kid' settled this week with the families of the three classmates who posted his two minute Lucasfilm screen test on the Internet. No details were released but the suit sought damages of $351,000. A victory for the victims of cyber-bullying, or missed chance by thin-skinned Ghyslain to cash-in as the next William 'She Bangs' Hung?"
Everyone's different (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like to sit down and talk with the guy, though...
He could have made millions more... (Score:3, Insightful)
Overreaction (Score:5, Insightful)
Furthermore, I doubt that it will prevent so-called cyberbullying; it will just remind the more intelligent bullies to wreak their mischief anonymously.
When I think of all the bullies I had to deal with growing up, back in the pre-Web days, and the revenge I could have gotten by spoofing them on a website, well, I guess I'm glad I didn't have that opportunity to do something so easy that would haunt me the rest of my life. It would have been fun, though.
William 'She Bangs' Hung had a choice (Score:5, Insightful)
I still think got lemons bla bla you know
William Hung Signed A Release... (Score:5, Insightful)
Please clairfy (Score:2, Insightful)
Is there some instance where you think people will be sympathetic to someone filing a ridiculous, frivoulous lawsuit for... *GASP*... embarassment?
This kid wasted the court's time, wasted resources, and made an even bigger ass of himself as a result.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:5, Insightful)
The kids who posted this without thinking how it would affect his life are the ones who should be learning from this.
Fame is a fickle thing, some people try their whole lives to get it, others try to stay away from it. Being forced into a difficult situation IS bullying, and I hope this kid can grow out of his stereotype.
Everybody does stupid things, but to be reminded about them every single day must be hell.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:5, Insightful)
That lesson is: Temporary embarassment can lead to huge cash rewards!
How thick a skin do you have? (Score:5, Insightful)
The guys who stole (er, "misappropriated" this video and stuck it on the net for the sole purpose of humiliating this poor kid deserve to be punished, IMO, and here in the civilized world the way that people are punished for stuff like this is money; it's not a perfect system, but it's the best we've come up with so far.
They're just lucky they're not in the US -- the MPAA would have come down on them like the wrath of God for messing with this kid's copyright on his original work.
cry some more (Score:3, Insightful)
case solved. plantiff guilty or embarrassing himself. we should not reward stupidity or accomdate it. the more accomodation, the more it appears. now this child/moron has learnd when things go against you, sue
"It's no fun what happened here, but that's the problem with the Internet. Things travel fast."
i believe thats a feature, not a problem. if it was as slow as the postal mail no one would use it for what it was designed...to quickly transmit data
at the risk of sounding un-sensitive, life sucks then you die. deal with it like everyone else or fast forward to the end
Good for Him! (Score:3, Insightful)
Walk a mile in his shoes... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the outside, since we have no emotional attachment to the situation, it's easy for us to say "I'd ride that money train all the way to the bank" but that fails to give the situation its true weight. Being 15 is tough enough for most kids without having themeselves publically humilitated by their peers just for a few laughs. I'm not a huge fan of law suits in general, but in this instance I am. The action of these kids was not criminal but it was a terrible thing to do and there needs to be consequences.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Please clairfy (Score:1, Insightful)
Oh wait, you're jumping to an unfounded conclusion, I forgot I was on Slashdot.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:4, Insightful)
The SWK will simply have to get over it all, and in fact should proudly take credit for his (unintentional) participation. Nerdy and overweight, he STILL did what he did out of his sheer love of the genre, and to a significant extent I'm sure the video producers did the same. As the years pass I hope he'll come to understand all that, and that it will take much of the sting out of the embarrassment he experienced. He's already made some money off the deal, so perhaps the maturing process has begun.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Obviously he's not laughing; thus you're not laughing WITH him, you're laughing AT him. Is that really hard to understand?
Re:How thick a skin do you have? (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe I'm old fashioned, but the way we used to punish schoolkids for stuff like this was "detention", "suspension" and "expulsion"... if a crime has been committed and the miscreant is old enough, then "trial" and possibly "sentencing".
Money is a poor way of punishing people unless it's a) proportionate to the perpetrator's means, and b) directed at the guilty party, rather than eg. his parents.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Obviously.
But don't tell anyone on earth what we may or may not laugh at.
Why not? You may not realize it, but you're reading and posting on a forum. I'll judge anything I feel like and tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Maybe I'm right or maybe I'm wrong, but it's certainly fair to tell someone when they're a jerk for thinking something is funny.
I disagree with this, but on the other hand... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd also like to lay a [un]healthy amount of blame on this kid's parents. First of all, if he weren't fat, I'd say that this might NEVER have happened. And even if not being obese could have prevented some of it, it's unquestionable that his obesity exacerbated the situation greatly. And whose fault is a child's obesity? Without a medical excuse, it's the parents. And only recently has the media started to actually pay some attention to the problem. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0496200/ [imdb.com]) The damage done to a child who is obese is not just physical, but mental and emotional and the scars last for life. The damage resulting from childhood obesity alone could have been the root cause that made him so vulnerable to being bullied in the first place.
Nothing on the planet will stop all kids from potentially being bullied and/or being bullies themselves. It's actually part of the natural human condition. But adding to it through parental neglect is more than just a shame, it's child abuse and should be addressed criminally just as other forms of abusive/criminal neglect are.
There's not a single law possible to force someone to actually care about the feelings of other people.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:2, Insightful)
For the record, it continues to be what it is. Funny for some, a serious matter to others. A suicide may serve only to enhance ones view.
It wasn't funny (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Overreaction (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:1, Insightful)
I take it you're the type that likes to inflict pain, wether emotional or physical, on others. Sometimes people aren't set up to just "handle people taunting him." People torment them more, till they either snap, or withdraw.
What if this kid just went and got a 30-06, and put one right between his tormentor's eyes? Such were *my* fantasies back in the day when the Earth was still cooling. I desperately wanted to bleed the ones who made life miserable with a rusty icecream scoop.
Now, 20 years later, I can laugh at such garbage. But then? Then I didn't know HOW TO DO IT. Then, all I knew is people hated me. People like you.
Yeah, I know your type well, if you're what I think you are. How's the gas-pumping business, ya fucking jock?
Re:Overreaction (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd steer clear of him, just because I wouldn't want to be the next person sued for whatever else sets him off. How is he going to make friends?
My guess is that if your not a total ass who tries to humiliate him on the internet, he won't sue you. Do you have any evidence he's ever sued anyone else before and that he get's 'set off' easily?
Completely wrong (Score:1, Insightful)
No, he CHOSE to drop out of school. He wasn't forced, stop portraying it that way.
"He still gets approached by people on the streets about it."
So what? Ignore them. Yes it is that easy.
"His parents had to hire a private tutor for him."
No, his parents CHOSE to hire a private tutor, because he CHOSE to leave school. Neither of those were anything other than thier choices. And they indicate something subtle you probably missed. They show his parents' acceptance of the idea that shifting responsibility is ok. That running when things get hard is ok.
"He ended up on anti-depression medication."
And this proves what exactly? Isn't this the place where everybody and their uncle screams about "Big Pharma" feeding people drugs to pad their wallets? How are we suddenly using this as justification for anything?
Bottom line, this kid got embarassed, and couldn't take it. How he reacted is his responsibility.
And before the flames start, I think it was probably very hard for him. I have genuine sympathy for what happened (the video) but everything that happened after was his reaction, and therefore his responsibility.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Completely wrong (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems to me that you really don't understand what free will is. Psychological pressure is a determinating factor, EVEN in murder trials. Can you say "temporal insanity"?
Of course, you haven't been ridiculized in public or bullied so what the heck do you know.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Although I sympathize with him, I'm also sympathetic toward the point of view that he needs to get over it. EVERYONE does something foolish and embarrasing in their lives. Maybe not with the notoriety that this guy got, but you know what? His problems would be over if he would just laugh at it, too. And then film a sequel.
Your list of problems that occurred says more about his emotional instability than the "horror" of what happened to him. If it wasn't this video, it would have been something else that messed him up.
If there's one thing I've figured out in my life, it's that it takes two people to create a bully/victim relationship. The bully has to be a bully, and the victim has to be a victim.
Re:Star Wars Kid Sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
What the hell? Why are so many of the comments saying things like this? He somehow deserves what happened to him because he wasn't smart enough, wasn't confident enough, didn't take advantage, whatever. Has everyone on this website forgotten what it's like to be a socially inept, outcast 15-year-old? Sure, by and large we've grown out of it, but a lot of us would not have appreciated having something we consider completely humiliating broadcast to the entire world.
You "can't blame someone else because of your personal problems," but what if the problems in question (humiliation in front of a worldwide audience, constant attention from the media and from strangers, drastically increased bullying in school when he was already not the most popular kid around) are in fact a direct result of someone else's actions? Can't you blame them for those actions, especially when they were done maliciously?
Everyone seems to be talking about fame as though it's this wonderful gift. Here's a clue: Not everyone wants it. And not everyone should be forced to want it, just because it's your opinion that he should have seized the opportunity and made a few bucks. Maybe he prefers the lack of fame over any potential profit he could have gotten from it. I know I would hate to be famous. That's not a sour grapes thing, I do have an ego and I would like to be well-respected within my own field, but real fame? Have you seen what the world does to celebrities? It's disgusting, and I'm glad that there's no realistic way that would happen to me.
Should the kid have filed a lawsuit? Maybe not. Personally I would lean towards no. But there's a big gap between "a lawsuit is inappropriate here" and "What's the matter with this kid, he deserves what he got, why is this bullied, insecure 15-year-old acting so insecure and immature? He should just get over it." No doubt he will get over it, but give him a few years -- it took a lot of us that long even without a major roadblock like this.
[END RANT]
Re:William Hung Signed A Release... (Score:1, Insightful)
He recorded the act using public equipment (a camera owned by the public school system).
This has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with property rights. Had these individuals taped him, things might be much different but the video was his and as such it was his to do with what he pleased. They did an illegal act by stealing the physical tape and then distributing a movie made from that and it was the result of that illegal act that caused a numbers of problems for him. Just because the damages from copyright are not lost sales doesn't make them any less valid.
Re:How thick a skin do you have? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nobody stole it. He left it where he filmed it. As far as I can tell, he was taping himself for kicks - everyone likes to play with video cameras - at his local school and the kids that posted it found the recording on the tape later.
I feel bad for the kid. I was picked on from the day I entered school in kindergarten until the very day that I left that hellhole system in 12th grade, and if someone did this to me I would probably show up at their door with a 2x4 and a bad attitude.
On the other hand, I don't know if I would have filed a $300,000 dollar lawsuit. It took me forever to realize it, but the kids that picked on me in school - the "cool kids" - really will get their own whenever the real world comes knocking. My parents told me that for years, and I never really realized it until I had graduated and all the "cool kids" were either running from the law, already in jail, or pregnant. Karma rocks. (the real kind, not the Slashdot kind)
I do sympathise for the kid, but it kinda makes the whole situation look bad when you get into the whole "my parents are gonna sue your parents" dealie. It degenerates into a big legal clusterfuck, and I for one have never had much faith in welcoming our legal overlords.
Re:Everyone's different (Score:3, Insightful)
Certainly some "gifted" people find comfort in believing that about "normal" folk, anyway.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Now in the real world, people at sites like fark, ebaumsworld, etc sold a whole lot of banner ads with this video. Why aren't they being sued? Or the graphics professionals who took a boring video of a fat kid from some website and added in effects and sounds, hosted it, and promoted it? Its one thing for me to release a video and its another for the video to get picked up by commercial interests and artists and turned into this week's crazy meme without permission. Ebaumsworld still hosts it now. Why are they free from litigation?
The real problems with these lawsuits is that they just get the easy money while fark and ebaumsworld and the rest continue this kind of nonsense. They dont ask permission, they don't ask the source, they just link and host and put all the banner ad money in their pockets. They're laughing all the way to the bank while some canadian families are now expected to get the 300k other people have made off this kid.
So "cyberbullies" get some sort of lesson, which probably won't resonate to the rest of the culture of bullying and website profiteers get off scott free. That's justice?
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:1, Insightful)
Now. Imagine if fuckface here would have laughed at himself just a little bit, just long enough to come off as a cult hero rather than a big whinie nerdy fat-assed pussy. Just imagine, for half an instant that he laughed at himself just a little bit. People loved his video. Yeah, we were laughing at him, but had he turned out to be a loveable goof, even if only as a public image, he coulda parlayed that into big bucks. I can see a happy go lucky starwars kid getting at least one major, million dollar endorsement deal with the right attitude and the right agent.
instead, he's proven himself to be a whiny brat with no sense of humor and not even enough self respect to take it like a champ, rather than a chump.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:2, Insightful)
As for you Tiger-boy, what in the hell is your major malfunction? You got teased, so you wanted to go around executing whoever didn't like you? Generaly speaking, psychological counseling might have been a little more productive. If you'd seen a shrink early enough, you probably wouldn't have all these anger issues today.
Re:PC gone too far. (Score:1, Insightful)
There's plenty of room between coddling and tormenting. I think the Star Wars kid got too much of the latter, and did something about it. That's better than letting people take advantage of you to the point where you grow up to be some fruit walking around in banks in form fitting clothes.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Walk a mile in his shoes... (Score:5, Insightful)
A basic tenant of all legal systems (western and eastern) is the separate existence of "civil" wrongs (torts, contracts, etc) and "criminal" wrongs (murder, robbery, etc). For nearly 1,000 years western civilization (English common law at least) has recognized the right of an individual to bring suit against another individual even if no criminal law was violated. Most people are exposed to this concept in high school, I'm surprised it wasnt on the CHSPE.
The star wars kid sued under tort for intentional infliction of emotional distress (among other claims). This cause of action has been recognized in some form for hundreds of years and suing people for tortious actions is nothing new.
Re:Completely wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
>No, he CHOSE to drop out of school. He wasn't forced, stop portraying it that way.
Semantics.
You are re-defining 'forced' to exclusively mean physical force, as in assualt or violent harassment.
I do not think you honestly believe harassment only comes in physical forms, but building a `strawman'... then tearing it down is not exactly honest. You must be an aspiring politician.
I'm not sure what I think of the judgement, but you are letting your opinion get in the way of the argument and trying to frame the circumstances into something different, so you can attack it.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think it's so much the taunting itself that usually upsets bullying victims, it's the fact that they're on the bottom of the social rung, the taunting is, in a way, a symptom or expression (and reminder) of that.
Generally there are two types of "taunting": The type of 'ragging' that guys do anyway between their friends, which although it may serve a purpose of re-affirming social hierarchies and boundaries it does so specifically in a "you're acceptable" way. The other type is taunting someone because they are at the bottom. These are very different, and to expect people to react the same doesn't make sense. What's to just "laugh off" when you're at the bottom and can't defend yourself? Nothing. Laughing doesn't help and isn't going to raise your status at all.
Re:Wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:1, Insightful)
Maybe not, but I learned in the 7th grade that kicking their God damned asses is.
There was a kid in Gym class who bullied me for 2 or 3 months. He got away with it because I was afreaid of the faculty, not him, despite the fact that he was a good five inches taller than me and maybe a hundred pounds heavier.
However, one fine day he crossed the line and slapped me like the pussy he was, and I snapped. I balled up my fist and hit him square in the nose, three times, in a matter of maybe two seconds. He squealed like a little girl and whirled around, and I jumped on him and started pummelling, and when he went down I kept pummelling.
There were at least a dozen kids watching the spectacle, cheering and jeering. The gym teacher came in and pulled me off.
I got a swat for my troubles, he got 18 (these days, we'd both probably be suspended or expelled).
Not only did he never try to bully me again, nobody else did, either!
Had the Columbine kids never been bullied, the massacre would have never happened. This bullying shit should be stopped immediately. Trouble is, the bullies wind up teaching Jr. High (and cleaning its toilets) while the bullied wind up programming and spewing on slashdot.
Re:William 'She Bangs' Hung had a choice (Score:2, Insightful)
Mr. Laflamme and Mr. Rheault conceded their role in spreading a video that Mr. Raza, then 15, had made of himself and left on a shelf in the school TV studio.
so either a) didn't realize he did this b) wasn't his tape to take & didn't realize how embarassing it would be if it got out, or c) left it there because he doesn't care if anyone else sees it (or maybe actually wants other to see it).
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Would that work for rape too? How about child abuse? Someone abused you and filmed it? Great, make a sequel!
I'm thinking that there is some problem with the "just get over it" attitude when someone is obviously wronged.
The bully has to be a bully, and the victim has to be a victim.
So say the bullies. What should the victims do to get it taken care of? Fight? Then you get you ass kicked and it's the same tomorrow. Ignore them? Then it goes on forever. Tell someone? Then assholes like you tell them to just get over it and they are actively trying to be victimized. That you think everyone that is bullied is asking for it is absurd. I hate to ponder what you think about women in short skirts that get raped.
Re:Everyone's different (Score:3, Insightful)
YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME?!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, you took what he said out of content. even though he said what you posted. you completely overlooked the main focus of his post, and chose to dwell only what you took issue with - not because it was offensive, but because it hit a nerve with some unresolved issues that you have.
Those kids were just being kids, everyone in that situation would have done the same thing. I would say Raza should have thought how video taping this ridiculous video AND LEAVING IT IN THE SCHOOL TV STUDIO would affect his life. I mean, did he expect no one to see it there?
That would be the point. And guess what? Like it or not, it's true. Young boys have been doing things of this nature for years. Even kids who aren't bullies play pranks on each other sometimes. Not because they're evil - because they're kids. Truth be told, you don't know what the relationship was between the kids. That's today's ultra-sensitive society - everyone's having fun, until someone gets mad, tells their parents, and someone's getting sued. Half of the time the kids intentions weren't even how they tried to depict them as.
But that's not why I hate the internet. I can tolerate views that differ from mine with no problem. What I can't stand is the attitude that's reflected in the comment that you made:
Yeah, I know your type well, if you're what I think you are. How's the gas-pumping business, ya fucking jock?
I take online abuse on a regular basis from people like you, and I wasn't even a jock. Not because I'm rude, because people like you who hold these types of things in. They walk around fine, but the moment they get into a situtation of power, they're hell to deal with. Support forums are full of them all over the internet. You see, after years of being bullied, you have your safe haven where you can say whatever you like to whoever you like, and they just have to take it. Whether their power is in being a moderator, or in having a bunch of friends on the board, they frequently abuse it. They walk around all the time with a chip on their shoulder, making curt and semi-sarcastic, hoping someone says something back so they can let them have it or boot them from a room.
That "Internet John Wayne" crap isn't any less offensive or abusive than the kids that posted a silly dance tape on the internet. At least the kid recorded it himself.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:2, Insightful)
This may what happens, but that doesn't make it just. It's far more common for the scars to taint the rest of one's life (if you don't believe me how long does it take you to remember your most embarrassing sports moment).
Your cynicism and inability to control your tongue does not mean that the rest of us have to take shit from other people lying down. I personally can't wait for the culture of 'boys will be boys' to die out completely. No more Star Wars Kid, n o more Kliebold and Harris.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:2, Insightful)
I call it a gross failure to understand the cruelty of kids. He could spend all his time defendign it, being proud of it, whatever. He's still a fat kid who did something silly. No one is ever going to stop giving him hell for it.
Your self-actualized recipe for dealing with teen angst only works in teen movies. Most kids don't give a damn. They just want someone to attack.
Re:Overreaction (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not like they accidentally caused him harm. They set about doing it. They deserve every bit of punishment that they receive. It is exactly this sort of bullying behavior that leads to teenagers committing suicide or worse, murder.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:5, Insightful)
I, too, was bullied in middle school and high school. And yes, it sucks. However, I could leave school and go someplace else where there were other kids and "start over" and probably not be bullied. For example, the other kids in my Boy Scout troop did not bully or make fun of me. When I was in high school, I often went to church activities. There were other kids there and I made friends and there were girls there that liked me, etc. When I was back in school, all the kids hated me and no girls were interested in me because of the ridicule I got from the other kids. So, I learned that the problem wasn't with me, it was with the bullies. And then I went to college and I was very popular.
Ghyslain can't do that. Every place he goes, people are going to know that he is the "Star Wars kid" and make fun of him. He will never have a chance to start over with a new peer group with a clean slate. And that's what makes it worse - and that's why I really feel sorry for him.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, the reason some people are bullied is because they dress differently than their peers. Or act differently. Or are smarter. Or are just unlucky enough to piss some asshole off.
But, that's okay, right. They had it coming. Being all smart and everything. That justifies systematic humiliation.
No (Score:3, Insightful)
Not everyone wants to debase their self respect just for cash.
While I don't think they should get off free... (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, if these three had been working together to create this, then maybe. But this was more a case of pebbles starting an avalanche. Now I'm sorry the avalanche landed on Mr. Raza, but well... I don't think you should be punished for more than you intended to do, or reasonably could expect of consequences. It would be quite another thing if they were harassing him right up to the point where he freaked. But they dldn't, in fact they were as powerless to stop it themselves. Yes, someone found a funny tape and showed it to a buddy or two. That's not a $350000 offense.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:2, Insightful)
At least one websites will devote a small section to tracking his future. What college he goes to, what job he gets, what town he lives in. On the internet there is always at least one fanatic that will never let it be forgotten.
The GP hit the nail on the head. The biggest difference between my embarrassing moments and his, is that only me, my friends and casual bystanders might ever see it happen or view the picture/video.
After that, it's just a story that millions of people will never see or hear.
How can you be so arrogant and so wrong? (Score:3, Insightful)
"The little morons took something that wasn't theirs with the intent to cause harm"
What harm? He was embarassed, and frankly, if you think that's worthy of wasting a CIVIL court's time, then I'm wasting my time with you.
Here's what really happened. Rich brat does something stupid, tapes it, it gets out, he's embarassed, rich brat's mom and dad give him what he wants (just like they always have) and files suit. Rich kid's parents have enough money to bleed other kids parents dry, so they settle.
You might not like it, and you can make up all the stupid justifications for why you feel how you feel, but all you've done is support a rich spoiled brat abusing the courts to get something his parents never gave him and can't buy him. Self respect.
And even after it's over, he's the spoiled brat "Star Wars" kid, only now instead of being funny, he's that asshole who sued because he was embarrassed.
Pretty Cold, Martin... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
Just because you can imagine something worse doesn't mean that the original action isn't terrible.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:3, Insightful)
The point isn't to stop something in progress, the point is not to wallow in your victimhood until your life is completely screwed up.
I was mugged once while taking a walk around my neighborhood (wasn't a bad neighborhood, either). Hit on the back of the head by a group of young black men. I woke up in a pool of blood from my head. Now, what are my responses after this?
1) Extreme fear of black men in the future
2) Extreme fear of walking alone
3) Chalk it up to experience and move on.
Guess what I did? That would be (3). And in fact, I realized after the fact that part of it was MY FAULT. Yes, MY FAULT. You know why?
What happened was that they asked me for the time. I told them, but got a funny feeling that something was wrong. But I chalked it up to "nothing" and turned my back on them. Then WHAM. What I learned was that I should trust my feelings when something doesn't feel right about a situation. It sucks that I was mugged, but I was smart enough to realize that part of it was my fault for not controlling what I could control.
Re:Wrong... (Score:5, Insightful)
That is absolutly incorrect. It is well know to those of us that beat the crap out of a bully or two in our youth, that a baseball bat to the head will change things very quickly. If you avoid arrest, the bully very quickly learns that you are not a "fun" target anymore.
How right you are, but here's the funny part that I found: you don't even necessarily have to win the fight, you just have to be willing to fight it.
Putting up the resistance is usually all that's necessary. The mere threat of resistance is enough - bullies don't want to fight, they want to walk on you without effort. So, make 'em work for it, and you'll generally be left alone. I've see that to be true all throughout life, in all my personal and business relationships.
Be friendly! Work hard, help people, go to parties, be social, and be honorable in all your dealings! But whatever you do, make DAMNED SURE that at the first sign of any real threat, that they know that it would be painful to be your enemy.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh wait..
Now instead of being "the kid who dances with a lightsaber," beloved around the world. He's "the crybaby who can't take a joke" This isn't about standing up against bullies, internet fame is measured in minutes and his is long since passed. This is about money. If he was so concerned about getting past this embarrassing momnet he wouldn't have brought about a year long court case that garners main stream media attention. He would have just let it die.
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay I've read this story for a few moments, and this is the FOURTH TIME THIS HAS BEEN COMPARED TO RAPE. Are you kidding? Do you really think some idiot video taping himself doing something embarrassing, on and using school property, and then leaving the video in a public place, is remotely comparable to rape or child abuse? Jesus. Get some bloody perspective.
As far as this kid being alienated "because" of the video -- I have a pretty good feeling that he already was alienated. (And that he already had some odd interpersonal traits. When most well-adjusted people would have laughed at themselves and tried to capitalize on the situation, this guy acted like he'd had a labotomy or something). The video just gave him a lightning rod to focus all of his anger.
Re:Star Wars Kid Sucks (Score:3, Insightful)
Re-read my post. I said no such thing. I'm sympathizing with him because he went through a terrible experience. I don't think 15 is an age where you can really say "Ah, you're a jerk? Then you deserve to be humiliated before the whole world!" If it were, most of us would have deserved that (or maybe still do).
I also don't care that some other more well-adjusted person might have taken what the other children intended to be a terrible experience and made it into a positive one. That level of maturity is something we should strive for ourselves, rather than using it as a stick with which to beat anyone who does not yet have it. One of the marks of real maturity is patience with those who do not yet have it. Give the kid a break.
These kind of responses remind me of the more popular kids in junior high who would harrass me constantly, and when I finally broke down and showed in some way that they were bothering me, would be like "Geez, what's your problem? Can't you take a joke?"
No, I wasn't always the nicest person at that age (I think most of us weren't, if we're honest), but I don't think that justifies that kind of treatment, and I don't think it's okay to humiliate someone, then blame them for minding.
The lawsuit is BS, okay, maybe. But grow up and stop hounding people who are weaker than you.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
He Sued Krispy Kreme? (Score:4, Insightful)
You mean he sued Krispy Kreme for the way all those donuts endlessly tormented him?
I wouldn't normally make a cheap fat joke but something in the article got to me:
He said the situation left him feeling drained of energy, and that he let himself go and no longer lifted weights to keep fit.
Watch that video again sometime. Imagine how the ripplingly muscled greek adonis of that video must look now.
Oh, wait... He was a fat, dorky, clumsy idiot before the video ever got distributed. And distributing the video made him a fat, dorky, clumsy idiot?
I'm not saying it's cool that kids get bullied in highschool but one look at him tells you there's probably not a highschool on earth where he wouldn't have been the butt of endless jokes.
He was overweight, had a lousy haircut, was so mal-coordinated he couldn't stand upright when wiggling a broomstick, and was evidently an affirmed StarWars nerd. This is a kid who, whether bullying is acceptable or not, I think we can be pretty certain was bullied long before this video ever came out.
The one thing that changed was he got a degree of celebrity from this one which shifted it in to something OK to wallow in.
Most kids manage something utterly humiliating during their school lives. They wet themselves. They get dumped in public. They get their asses handed to them by a kid several years younger. Their yearbook picture catches them adjusting themselves. Their dad goes to jail. Whatever the case, they become the talk of the school for a couple of weeks. Their parents give them the tough but true advice, "Don't show that it bothers you and wait it out. In two or three weeks, someone else will have done something stupid."
In his case, the net gave him just enough celebrity to truly wallow. Instead of laughing and saying, "Yeah, it was pretty dorky, wasn't it." then leaving it two weeks to quieten down, he was pulled out of school. Instead of weathering it and waiting for it to die down, he gave interviews. Instead of being told, "Yeah, damn straight it sucks but it happens to everyone. You're just going to have to tough it out." this became "The Internet" and he was handed a great excuse to wallow. The really sad thing is, it's the wallowing that's likely done him the most harm.
Yeah, he'd have always got the odd joke about being the Star Wars kid but it would have died down. Instead, being allowed to wallow, he was able to completely sever all ties with normal teenage society. Instead of being allowed to cry at home every night for a week or two and then slowly face it, he was taken to a doctor and given meds, being told it was a reasonable response to be so upset. Instead of slowly accepting that, yeah, life does suck but you have to deal anyway, he was taught that his problems were someone else's fault and so he didn't have to take any responsibility in moving through them and coming out stronger on the far side.
I hate the bullying I faced as a kid. Some of it still hurts a huge amount. I'm also vastly more successful in life now because I had to come back from it and find a way through rather than was allowed to stay home, get home schooled, and wallow in how unfair everyone else was.
And so, when I hear how a fat kid who didn't exercise was so traumatized by his bullying that he "stopped pumping iron and really let [himself] go," I have to question how much of the problem was the same bullying that sucks utterly but toughens up most of us and how much was him getting a damned convenient excuse for many things that were already true.
How many guys out there "could have gone all the way" in their chosen sport before the got some terrible injury. And how many of them, if totally honest, never would have made it and the injury was a damned good excuse to stop trying and instead talk about what they could have been?
Is he any different other than that one video, that almost certainly wasn't the first time he was bullied, gave him a good excuse to stop trying in life and blame someone else for where he was, most likely, going to end up anyway?
Re:Except... well... it's just not that funny (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It doesn't sound so funny.. (Score:1, Insightful)
Some of the most brutally vicious things I've ever heard said were spoken by people who couldn't cope with the teasing and instead of "playing along", decided to lash out ostensibly in self defense. If you aren't socialized enough to know the subtle difference between teasing and mocking, sarcasm and degredation, you really should revisit your thoughts on rape and child abuse by talking to people who prosecute rapists and child abusers (not just talking to the victims). Defending the victim from a standpoint that does not include knowing what it feels like requires a mentality that is clear on right and wrong without emotional ties (though the severity of the crimes evoke emotions anyway). My dad was a parole officer dealing with the utter dregs of society before he retired. He tried his best to defend victims of rape and child abuse and I think he'd be offended that you'd compare what happened to the "Star Wars Kid" to any of the people hurt by his clients.
The world is not a nice place. Mean people suck. You can tell everyone to be nice and sue them when they're not, you can crawl into a shell and hide until they find you, or you can love people for their own sake and live life according to your own purposes rather than the capricious whims of those whose own insecurity doesn't allow them any more creative effort than mockery. For every Gyslain, there are a dozen class clowns desperate for that kind of attention. I became the class clown. I was easily big enough to be the bully. I was strong enough to turn most any jock who picked on me into a pretzel but THAT is just playing their game. The kids who do the best in school are those who know you don't have to choose sides in the "Bully Or Victim" debate. You can cope how you choose best to cope. If you want to stay on your high horse about this, take a book on coping strategies up to that altitude and see that it is not a "jock" response for someone to say "man up" when it comes to teasing. Of COURSE it wouldn't make sense to say that to a rape victim, but like I hope I've made clear enough, that comparison is not logical at all.
Re:Walk a mile in his shoes... (Score:3, Insightful)
Not very well, it seems. If you feel the need to deride others in a similar situation as you, then obviously you feel the same way about yourself, and you're using "It's all his own fault" to justify your own self-loathing (since everything bad that happens to you is your fault).
(Or do you feel that you copping to your own failures somehow makes them better?)
Of course, just because you may have the same build as him doesn't mean there are pictures of you dancing around making the rounds on the web, so you aren't in the same situation as he is.
"The right thing to do would have been (had I had parents who would stand up for me) to go to the adminstration, and then the school board."
You mean the ones that allowed the situation to perpetuate to begin with? If you're relying on the administration, you're essentially gambling that they're so incompetent as not to notice what is going on around them, rather than silently condoning it.
"I'd have published it, too."
You call for personal responsibility, but you don't think that the publishers should also have some responsibility for their own actions? The tape didn't "just happen" to get digitized and uploaded. If you actually believe in what you say, if you yourself would have published it, then you would have fessed up to it and taken your lumps.
"That kid gained so much geek cred that it's literally astounding."
Why would he want that?
"(I dropped out of school at 15 and took the CHSPE, the California High School Proficiency Exam, because I couldn't handle going there any more.)"
Just because you didn't stand up to your assailants doesn't mean nobody else should. Heaven forbid anybody rock the boat, hm?
"overly-litigious nature of our society"
Dude, Quebec! Not only are they Canadian, they're French Canadian! There are far fewer things you're allowed to sue for up there.
"If it was not criminal, why is the law involved?"
Civil suit, common law/Napoleonic code. Just because there's no statute against something doesn't mean it's fair game.
"With a little creativity and some willingness to be mocked (they say that one of the signs of intelligence is self-deprecating humor...)"
Self-deprecation means being mocked on your own terms. Or does it go back to your own self loathing, "The other kids make fun of me because I allow myself to be fat?" Does "Stockholm Syndrome" ring any bells?
"If there should be consequences, they should be limited to suspension from school at the most."
So the kid should have "sucked it up" like an adult but the publishers shouldn't be subject to adult penalties for their own actions? Seems like you're picking and choosing who has to show personal responsibility and who does not.
"Still, the film was made in a public place with public equipment."
How many of those films made with the same equipment in the same place wound up on the internet?
"at which point, he has no valid complaint."
Was the internet publication sanctioned by the school? Did he sign any disclaimers allowing the use of his image in such a public venue, or even mentioned in the student handbook? I can practice armchair law just as well as you.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wrong... (Score:3, Insightful)
No, but they'll leave you alone. So long as society continues to condone their actions (and don't pretend for a second that it doesn't), they'll always find somebody to bully. Best you can do is make sure you're not one of them.
"They most certainly do not crave revenge upon you"
Bullying is the exact opposite of seeking vengeance, it's about seeking a weaker target than yourself rather than going up against what is really bothering you. As soon as a bully sees you as a "threat," you cease being a "target" and any frustration they may now have with you personally will be shifted to some other, more passive target.
"Gandi had something to say regarding this."
His tactics rely on the empathy of third parties, ones who could make the bully stop. In your typical high school environoment, the only third parties available are those cheering the bully on.
Re:Wrong... (Score:1, Insightful)
I long for the good old days (Score:2, Insightful)
Seriously, though... I know it's not politically correct to say that violence is the answer, but when dealing with bullies it usually is. The primary reason why things get this bad is because teachers and parents often tell kids that "violence is never the answer," or "use your words" in a situation where that clearly will never win the respect of any peers or gain any satisfaction for the bullied child. All that happens is that bullied children are forced to repress their rage, and bullies are left unpunished and learn that their behavior will be tolerated.
For members of the younger generation, whatever your parents might tell you, in some situations you are better off standing your ground and getting into a fight.
Re:Completely wrong (Score:1, Insightful)
I can assure you, being the subject of ridicule for being a "fag" in a closed-minded small-town high school is far worse than anything the Star Wars Kid had to endure.
I could have dealt with it by dropping out and running from my problems, but I chose to finish and feel I'm a better person for it.
And, honestly, I had forgotten all about this guy until I read this article. 99% of the population has probably never heard of him, and people are going to forget eventually. Time to move on.
And possibly grow some balls, too.
Re:Hindsight is 20/20 (Score:3, Insightful)
1. As many people have pointed out, the simplest way to stop being bullied is to stop taking shit from other people. It is an effective method that I finally discovered in the middle of high school and it did nothing short of change my life. The kid has had the ability to spin this since day one--either by embracing his internet fame or by showing these bullies that they couldn't ruin his life. Instead, his parents sued their parents. Great idea.
2. I've seen that video at least a dozen times, not including parodies of the Matrix, et cetera made from it... and I couldn't tell him from any other fat white kid in a line up. Until this article, I had no idea what his name even was. Unless he's walking around swinging a broom handle, I doubt anyone else will know who he is either.
Re:Star Wars Kid Sucks (Score:3, Insightful)
Good lord, what is with people that they keep believing this nonsense? Why do extroverted people insist on believing that introverted people are deeply unhappy about their state, and would be able to have a normal happy life if only they could learn to socialize the way all the extroverts do? Why is there this persistent myth that if only we could learn to socialize and act normally, we would be popular and happy, too? Many of us are happy with our lives and our friends, and don't want to live our lives like you. People like different things. Go figure.
To answer your accusation: No, I did not secretly wish anything like that. I wished, and not at all secretly, that the popular kids would leave me the hell alone.
I'm not ordinarily bitter about my experiences back then -- they were terrible at the time, but I'm over them. If I sound bitter, it's a product of these threads, which are reminding me again that people really don't (care to) understand what a lot of kids go through.
In any case, I can function socially these days, and have on the whole recovered from my "awkward stage" -- I'm even comfortable giving talks in front of crowds, something I understand even "normal" people often dislike -- but I am not an extrovert and have no wish to be, and I will never be one of the cool kids. This is fine with me. I wish people would stop thinking that people like me would be happy if only they could fix us.