Another Sony Format Bites the Dust

Lam1969 writes "Reuters is reporting that Universal Media Disc, Sony's PSP-only movie format, is about to kick the bucket. While the discs' novelty factor resulted in strong sales shortly after the PSP's May 2005 launch, interest rapidly dropped and movie companies are no longer interested in producing titles. From the article: "Universal Studios Home Entertainment has completely stopped producing UMD movies, according to executives who asked not to be identified by name. Said one high-ranking exec: 'It's awful. Sales are near zilch. It's another Sony bomb -- like Blu-ray."'"

Interesting...

[Anonymous Coward]

Comment from UNI since they are supporting HD-DVD... HMMMMM?

Interesting...

[TechnoGuyRob]

Because just this December I was travelling to Colorado in a car, and guess what I was using to watch movies? That's right, a PSP with UMD discs. I admit, they can be tedious; just like many other technologies, one piece of information (a movie, a book, an album, etc.) per storage device is starting to become obsolete (notice how companies put more and more bonus content on DVD's) because of the vast amount of space available on modern media. The UMD disc was inconvenient in this respect in that it held one game/movie per disc, and it was not writable, and not supported by practically any player other than PSP--a console which in itself isn't all that great [cnn.com].

Overall, I'm glad that this format, among others, is becoming extinct. The closer we get to a universal storage format (flash drives seem to be the popular candidate), the faster we'll get to complete integration of information. Benjamin Feingold, president of Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, said in the article, "We're hoping the format's going to be reinvigorated with next-generation capability that may include living-room or normal television playback." I, on the other hand, hope not.

Re:Don't let SACD be next

[lfnoise]

SACD is freaking the best digital sound format on the market AND it's 1 bit (DSD). How cool is that?

not too cool.

Why 1-Bit Sigma-Delta Conversion is Unsuitable for High-Quality Applications [sjeng.org]

Single-stage, 1-bit sigma-delta converters are in principle imperfectible. We prove this fact. The reason, simply
stated, is that, when properly dithered, they are in constant overload. Prevention of overload allows only partial
dithering to be performed. The consequence is that distortion, limit cycles, instability, and noise modulation can
never be totally avoided. We demonstrate these effects, and using coherent averaging techniques, are able to display
the consequent profusion of nonlinear artefacts which are usually hidden in the noise floor. Recording, editing,
storage, or conversion systems using single-stage, 1-bit sigma-delta modulators, are thus inimical to audio of the
highest quality. In contrast, multi-bit sigma-delta converters, which output linear PCM code, are in principle
infinitely perfectible. (Here, multi-bit refers to at least two bits in the converter.) They can be properly dithered so
as to guarantee the absence of all distortion, limit cycles, and noise modulation. The audio industry is misguided if
it adopts 1-bit sigma-delta conversion as the basis for any high-quality processing, archiving, or distribution format
to replace multi-bit, linear PCM.

Which exec again?

[SuperKendall]

Funny that that high ranking exec was from Universal Studios.... now where have I seen that name before. Oh yeah, front and center on the HD-DVD roster!

Is it not simply sad to see a high ranking executive reduced to trash talking? How desperate is he?

Re:absolutely right, except for one thing

[Sycraft-fu]

Umm, not sure what kind of TVs you are used to, but you can sure as hell the the difference between a 480 line and a 720 line picture on any reasonable modern TV. On an HDTV, of course, the difference is even more pronounced.

You'd actually be amazed at some of the quality differences you can get on just regular SDTVs. I got a new one some time ago and it had component inputs. I decided to try the difference between component and s-video, my DVD player supported both. You might think it wouldn't matter for DVD rez signals, but it did. The component picture was crisper, and had less colour bleed.

So while I'm sure UMD movies wouldn't be unwatchable, I'm betting their quality is more on a VHS or maybe SVHS level than a DVD level. You would probably notice on any reasonable setup.

not a dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the first I saw it. I don't load games stories in my prefs here. So it's not a dupe to me. I prefer my fantasy to reading sci fi occassionaly, and for playing I like physical activity. so-no video games, so no reason to clutter the screen all the time. an occassional artiel about it, mostly I read this one because it concerns sony, I company I used to actually like, because at one time, they actually made some cool stuff. I am hoping eventually the remaining smart guys at sony branch off and just dump the games and movies and music crap and go back to building neat stuff-without drm of course. Like really nice radios, advanced monitors, etc. Could care less about consoles, unless they sell one at a huge loss and it's a nice hackable computer, then I might get one. Gotta be cheap though.

Re:Loss leaders would save the day

[PCM2]

New releases at $6-$8 a disc; older stuff, $2 or $3. Enough to cover production. So what if they take a loss on the rights? They'll get it back in sales of units.

You're assuming that the player itself is not a loss leader. Microsoft took a loss on every Xbox it sold. I thought both Sony and Nintendo were doing the same on their home consoles. Why should the portable market be any different? If that's the case -- and I can't say for certain that it is but it seems plausible enough -- then obviously they're expecting to make their money back on content and so priced the UMDs accordingly.

Re:Should have used "Mini Disc"

[Kenshin]

They could have used mini-DVDs for the storage format, but really, cartridge-based formats are much better for handhelds.

Hi-MD would have been the perfect choice for consumers, but I think Sony was way to terrified of piracy (since you can easily buy blank Hi-MDs off the shelf), so they went with something a bit more "secure".

Re:Blu Ray?

[kegon]

Who wants to pay $5 per minidisc in order to listen to music when CD-R's are $0.25,

Yeah, right. MDs can be recorded to 100s of times; let's compare like for like.

Even when a 512MB mp3 player cost $299, it was comparable to the high end MD player, in features and size.

No, that was never the case. Have you ever seen an MP3 recorder ? MD lets you record on very small portable devices. And how long does it take you to transfer 512 MB of MP3 to your player, is it as quick as eject-insert-play ? I don't think so. Did you compare the original iPod size to high end MD players ? iPod is massive in comparison.

They should have LONG AGO made a minidisc MP3 player - the technology existed,

What is your problem with Net MD [minidisc.org] ? Sure it's not MP3 but Sony offers a way to transfer MP3 to MD directly. Did you really think that they were going to "forget" about DRM, or try to support other companies' equipment ? By the way, Sharp etc also offer NetMD.

Re:Blu Ray?

[markandrew]

I think you're being unfair on minidisc - it still has several advantages over other formats (although they're now outnumbered by disadvantages).

Compared to CDs, minidisc is small - that might not sound like much, but it means I can slip a MD player in my jeans pocket, my shirt pocket, hold it comfortably in my hand, whatever. For portable music, that's a must - CDs can never be as portable.

Compared to MP3 players, the sound quality is vastly better (OK, maybe "vast" is an overstatement, but for someone into hi-fi, try listening to a decent MD recording or a decent MP3 recording - the MD is clearly better; even my 9-year old deck sounds better than any MP3 I've heard, and I've heard a few). Most consumers don't care much about this (which is why you see so many Ipod owners with the original, nasty, low-quality earphones), but some people do. You can also get MD hifi units to put next to your CD player, which I've yet to see for MP3 (although I'm sure someone has made one somewhere); related to that, for MP3 players, you really need a computer for them to be worthwhile. You may be able to record from line-in on some of them, but that's not what they're designed for. I like listening to music on my stereo, not my computer. I still buy CDs - not MP3s. And I like my portable music player to sound good and be usable with my home stereo and music collection - all this fits much better with MD than it does MP3. Lastly, you exaggerated the price for MD units. I've never paid more than £1 for a minidisc (blank; although the new data versions are about twice that), and I've been using it since 1997. I've also never paid more than £170 for a player - hifi or portable - and for that money I've never had to buy the cheapest one, but have managed to get a good mid-range unit (my MD deck is 9 years old and still sounds comparable to CD, just about). That makes it better value than any MP3 player, for my needs. My current MD portable is about the size of an Ipod nano, give or take, and cost £150 two years ago. It sounds far better, and the battery lasts for days on end. It holds far less music, granted, but I personally prefer listening to an album or 3 several times per day than 200 unique tracks; if I wanted that, I'd listen to radio.

I know none of these reasons are likely to hold much weight with 95% of consumers, but if i was sure the format had a future, I'd still buy it (I'm not, so I don't anymore - my current units will be my last)

You're 100% right in saying that sony messed up with marketing the format, though: first it was touted as a replacement for CD when it should have been replacing cassette tape, then they tried selling pre-recorded discs. When MP3s started getting popular, sony held out and refused to give the few remaining MD fans a proper MP3 compatible unit - as far as I know the ones that currently exist are still crippled with poor software and DRM.

As you pointed out, this is par for the course with sony. MD, Memory Stick, the list goes on. Apart from anything else, it's bad business.

Re:Loss leaders would save the day

[Hitto]

Well, now you do. [nintendo.co.jp] AFAIK, Nintendo, in over a century of business, have lost money during only one quarter, because of the gamecube and a price drop. Usually, they're very shrewd, and do not try for market domination as hard as Microsoft and sDoRnMy do. Thus, they do not waste as much money on advertisement, they d not use state-of-the-art technology, but instead use tried and true technology... In a nutshell, they're pragmatic and price-conscious geeks. But leave it to astroturfers to yell that Nintendo's gonna die soon ;)

Re:Blu Ray?

[metricmusic]

Compact Flash yes, but you can't blame them for not backing the SD format when SD cards came out after memory stick.

I agree with you on the early md players not being able to playback mp3s. They shouldve made the md players capable of playing back mp3s along with atrac from the start. Also they made minidiscs capable of storing pc data but decided to make the format incompatible with md audio. So that weakened one advantage minidiscs could have had and improved their market share. by the time sony bought both these things to the general md format (hi md) people had moved on the flash memory and hd based players.

sad.

There is still one area where the md format shines and that is in live recording. Dat is dead so maybe minidisc will take its place. Its the best format for stealth concert recordings and taping your own music practices.

Re:Blu Ray?

[Megane]

Don't forget the 3 1/2" floppy disc. Back in 1983 or so, there were three competing formats at that size. One got used by Amstrad and Nintendo, another got used by some typewriter manufacturers, and the third was used... in the new Apple Macintosh. It was also used in an new HP computer at that time, but it was the Macintosh which caused the Sony format (which this time really was the best) to win.

Re:Blu Ray?

[CastrTroy]

Yes, The fact that Minidisc is far more durable than cd's is what has made me really wish sony had actually thought about what they were doing. Minidisc can hold any data, 170? MB worth of data. Had they marketed it not only as a music storage format, but as a general storage format, they would have been unstoppable. In the days of Zip drives and other such wonderful inventions, they had a format that not only was smaller, but had more capacity, and was durable. Oh, and it was much cheaper. Zip disks were quite expensive from what I remember, but maybe that was more due to demand and lack of competition.

Re:Blu Ray?

[CastrTroy]

It's true because it has a hard plastic case around it, protecting the disc, and you could throw it across the room or rub sandpaper all over both sides without any worrying about doing any damage to the actual data. This also helped protect it from light, which is anohter thing that is known to damage CDs, especially recordables.

Noone to blame but themselves

[aonaran]

If they had added a UMD slot to the PS3 they could have kept it alive, even if the PS3 UMD slot only played movies not PSP games.
They chose not to do that and so now they have to live with that choice.
I was ready to buy into UMD as a portable movie/game format until they announced that PS3 would NOT have a slot.

Re:Blu Ray?

[voice_of_all_reason]

Why aren't regular CDs and DVDs like this again?

When I was a kid, I went to my dad's office and he had some sort of digital media drive where you put the CD in a bulky plastic cartidge, and slide the whole cartidge into the PC. Those things stayed in better shape than most of my 3 1/2 floppys.

Re:Blu Ray?

[polyp2000]

MP3 doesn't retain the very high or very low frequencies as well, in my opinion.

When MiniDisc came out in its first incarnation of Atrak was booed by audiophiles for suffering the EXACT SAME inadequacies (lack of top-end and bottom-end frequencies) as your are describing with regard to MP3, but - just like the Atrack system has improved over the years so has MP3 and the myriad of other codec's floating around these days.

but when I'm sat in a dark room concentrating on the music, or listening to each chord through a decent pair of headphones, it's that sort of thing that i'll pay money to improve. MP3 doesn't cut it for me (yet). ... listen to what you are saying - if you heard someone else make a comment like that wouldnt you think they were a twat?

I can understand forking out for a decent music system its easy to tell the difference between a plastic midi-hifi and a decent seperates system!.But your comment is borderline obsessive. You sound so obsessed with the sound quality and the finer intricacies of the sound; Do you actually enjoy music? Good music is good music. Its a shame you judge it chord by chord or frequency by frequency. You sound like an obsessively biased audiophile fanboy who's more interested in tweaking his stereo than actually enjoying music (as opposed to listening to the inadequacies of your set-up). I cant imagine what it must be like to be so distracted by the details of the sound that i couldnt enjoy my music collection!

Nick ...

Re:Sony's viability

[monopole]

Actually, Nintendo beats the hell out of Sony on movies via their Play Yan cartridge. It's a standard size cartridge that incorporates an audio jack and works with the original GameBoy Advance on up. It takes dirt cheap SD flash w/ DRM free MP4 files which encode with 3rd party software. It holds 1-2 movies on a 1GB SD card, and plays mp3s as well. As always, the battery life is insane allowing for many hours of playback.
But the real killer is that the cartridge works on all of the advance and DS models including the micro! As a result you can carry about a video/mp3 capable micro that is near nano size, but then shift over to a DS (or DS lite) for a larger screen speakers and longer battery life.

As a result my PSP gathers dust while my GBA micro is a constant companion (with a DS in the bag for the 'Big Screen' experience).

On the low end the GBA movie player ($25) from Lik Sang takes CF cards and produces serviceable video. With a used Advance you can cobble together a Sub $50 video player. Eat that, Sony!

Re:Blu Ray?

[Dare nMc]

>Who the hell would make an MP3 CD? Make a damned ordinary CD... MP3 sounds bloody awful on a decent hifi
many advantages for MP3 CD,
    I)theirs more sound per bit so
      1) more music per disc
      2) you can spin the disc slower or less duty cycle.
            a) longer battery life
            b) less prone to skipping
            c) longer cd life (less likely to rub: spinning slower = less momentum, so less disk distortion, and easier to read a scratched disc at slower spin rates
      II) more future format flexibilty,
            1) mp3 now can support 5.1 surround sound (high bit rate rip from a DVD)
            2) categories: my car mp3 disc player supports directories, etc in the mp3 format discs, so you can easily catagories, no such thing on inflexible audio CD format.
            3)file name is more supported than the CD name system, the CD burn programs I currnelty use don't even support the dual mode disks you have to create to make those .id files or whatever show up so you get names of the music your playing on a few supported players.

Greed killed UMD

[tkrotchko]

If Sony wanted to make UMD's popular, they would have included for free a copy of UMD movies with every DVD purchase. Do that for a year or two until they get people interested in the format. Then come out with stand-alone UMD players to connect to TV sets. Agressively market the design (i.e. give it away for almost nothing) for 3rd party players.

Instead, they came up with a format that was only playable on an overpriced game system then charged $20-25 for UMD disks that could be purchased on DVD for $12-15. I got the impression Sony felt they had invested big in the PSP and the business plan said it was going to pay off in 18 months and by-gosh, they were going to make it pay off in 18 months even if it meant absurd revenue predictions from UMD format licensing. Which meant that companies had to add $5 more per disk retail to pay Sony for licensing.

But you know, given that this is Sony, they'll blame *piracy* for the demise of UMD. The thought process will go like this....

"Hmmm, UMD failed because people were ripping DVD movies and putting them on a memory stick. What we *should* have done was to make the PSP so that it was incapable of playing a movie from a memory stick. Also, we should ask the U.S. Congress for laws that will throw people in jail for ripping movies from their DVD. Those dirty pirates."