The New Force at Lucasfilm 183
conq writes "BusinessWeek has an interview with the heads of George Lucas' gaming and movie divisions, and discusses with them how they are getting closer and closer to integration. From the article: 'Pre-visualization, which is a big thing that George has been pushing lately. It's a tool that directors would use to quickly mock up the ideas of a story and see what's going to work. It's really like building up a preview of a movie in a video game world. Instead of using static story boards, you can really just get in and create 3D content and camera moves directly. It's the best example of the kind of collaboration we've got going on.'"
Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmm... (Score:1)
Re:Hmm... (Score:1, Funny)
Yeah, but now he can capture that moment when we're about to burst into tears in the privacy of his own home.
Re:Hmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Still, he's earning more in a second than I do in a month, so he must be doing something right.
Re:Hmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep... (Score:2, Funny)
I could never work at Lucasfilm (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I could never work at Lucasfilm (Score:2)
Re:I could never work at Lucasfilm (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Full Throttle (Score:4, Informative)
There was a press release about it getting axed, but that most not have had enough Star Wars content either, and it's been deleted, and you get redirected to the home page.
There's a brief article here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/fullthrottle
And a bit more here: http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,183 [adventuregamers.com]
God I wish Lucas would get over the whole Star Wars thing already.
Re:Full Throttle (Score:2)
Re:Full Throttle (Score:2)
Hmm... digital crack. Uh-oh.
Re:Full Throttle (Score:2)
I admit that I only ever played the demo of Full Throttle, and that was a looooong time ago. Which is strange, because I think I played every other LucasArts adventure game. I'll have to go find it.
What do I need to get SCUMM running on my DS? (Score:2)
What do I need to do this? I used to play them on my P800, but I switched to a Treo and they run too slow to be playable. I own a DS and would love to play these games on it.
Pre-visualisation? (Score:2, Insightful)
Where?
Come on, it was bad enough Han Fired Second but to make Yoda into Hong Kong Phooey and Darth Vader into a whiny teen... puhleeze.
Worst Use of Natalie Portman Eva.
Some actual visualisation would be nice.
Visualisation is the only thing he's good at now. (Score:5, Insightful)
But, look at each still shot. They look good. The characterization sucks. The plot sucks. The dialog sucks. The timing sucks. The motivation sucks. None of it has any logical flow behind it.
But the still pictures are very nice.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:3, Insightful)
> The dialog sucks
Worse than sucks; it's unnecessary. If you eliminate the dialogue entirely, not much changes. It's that visual. The dialogue adds ... not much positive.
Every word after Obi-Wan cuts off Skywalker's legs is a negative, e.g. "I loved you man!" is something no actor needs to say; it's evident from the acting. The worst lines in all six movies is when the dying Portman (shades of "Love Story") says, "I think I'll spoil one of the plots points of the next movie by telling the audience th
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:1)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, the very worst dialogue was between Anakin and Padme. Episode II was so painful.
balance to the Force (Score:2)
> balance to the Force
With respect, I don't think the balance is one of numbers, or of power. What this 'balance' is, is not clearly stated in the movies. Ignoring any official backstory as developed in the books, comics and games (....on the grounds that I haven't read or played them) it seems clear from the movies is that the imbalance is caused by a because feature of the Jedi order: A Jedi Is Forbidden To Love An Individual.
This feature stunts the emotional development, in humans at least. Look
value of the unstated word (Score:1)
I think that whoever directs the next one (in 2020 or whatever), or even if someone could re-cut the current film, needs to crop out all the superflous dialog. A deeply pained expression, a furtive glance, a slight nod; these are the things that I saw that could have replaced the pre-teen bor-a-thon dialogs. Just think if Lucas and Co. realized that
Re:value of the unstated word (Score:2)
I thought Ewan McGregor sold the lines (Score:2)
You note that he shouldn't have had to say the lines, and you're entirely correct, but that was one case in the movies that I
Re:I thought Ewan McGregor sold the lines (Score:2)
Fair 'nuf! I too enjoyed the movies, all of them, the same way I enjoy comic books: without shame and without expectations. And definitely not for the words balloons.
It must have been painful for the actors; perhaps they used the pub method as well.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:1, Insightful)
Actually, the charaterization and plot were far beyond what Lucas did in the Original Trilogy. It's just that whiney, disgruntled "George Lucas Raped My Childhood" fanboys can't reconcile these facts when faced with a minor character like Jar Jar and five minutes of difficult "love" dialog.
I think I speak for the entire Star Wars fan community when I say, with all candor, "quit your fucking bitching alre
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:1)
George Lucas paints pictures with a baseball bat. The dialogue in all three prequels is downright painful if you have even a passing interest in writing.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe you do. I used to be a huge Star Wars geek. I read all the novels, bought the "reference books", absolutely loved the X-Wing games, etc. I quit when Episode I came out. I don't see how you can even compare the quality of the prequels with the incredible stories that other authors have written. Not just Zahn, but nearly every writer has come up with far better material than Lucas. The stories suck. The dialogue sucks, and not just the abysmal Anakin/Padme crap.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:1)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
But we're talking about movies where millions of dollars were spent creating the CGI effects. I expect they could have at least hired an editor to clean up the dialogue, you know?
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Quit your whining already. I actually enjoyed Episode II and III's stories.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
I'd say the people who complain endlessly and needlessly about 1-3 have simply forgotten how to be a child.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:3, Insightful)
That's probably closer to the truth than you realise. Most of those people will have first seen (and fallen in love with) 4-6 as a child, and as such they have a special signifigance to them.
They've seen 1-3 as adults, with an adult's view of things, and they simply can't compare to their childish recollection of 4-6. Sure, they've seen 4-6 as adults too, but you know the old saying, "first impressions
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
I never understood how some people somehow take things personal when they don't like the direction something has taken and act all offended about it.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
T
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
With all respect, "Bah!" Objectivity has baptkus to do with it. I claim that all the GLRMC haters out there suffer from "Boba Fett Underoos Syndrome". You all have a preconception of the original films from when you were young, impressionable, easily impressed, and loved playing in your
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2, Insightful)
That's only because Lucas didn't direct Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. The reason he did more for the prequels was because he wrote and directed all three of them--the quality of this increased contribution is debatable.
I love Star Wars, and even if the prequels were complete insults to cinema (which I don't think they are) that's not going to change. However, I do think that JarJar added nothing t
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
All of these sequels should never have been made, because they have the effect of diminishing the original, all for the sake of more money. Lucas is especially culpable in that he rewrites the original. It is not just Jar Jar and badly acted love scenes (I almost said Jar Jar in badly acted love scenes, hopefully Lucas doesn't read this and get ideas for 7).
It is inconceivable for a
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:3, Insightful)
Three words for you, pal. "Bull fucking shit".
If you pick up a copy of "The Hobbit", you will find that there are some glaring differences when compared to the first printing of the story. In the original When Gollum lost the riddle game, he was a good sport - showing Bilbo to the door and letting him keep the Ring . Read that again, slowly, and imagine how pointless the Lord of the Rings would have been if Tolkien *hadn't* revised his
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Furthermore, revision seems to be a SF only thing. Perhaps from the scientific method?
Seriously, if you're OK with all these alterations, you'll find it's really going to suck 20 years from now when the LOTR you love and treasure is altered to
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Lots of authors do that. One major (in SF terms anyway) is Michael Moorcock. Many who later become more famous can republish their earlier works and take the opportunity to revise or restore cuts. But sometimes, like Lucas, it proves to be an ill-advised ego-trip. Heinlein, for instance, released versions of his novels with cuts restored, eg Red Planet with an additional lecture about gun rights; proving only the wisdom of his original edit
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
The Matrix was ripped off [slccglobelink.com] from a science fiction writer who submitted her script to the Wachowski Brothers in the 1980's. An FBI investigation and court proceedings decided that they had indeed stolen her work and awarded her damages. In fact, thirty minutes of footage was edited out of the original because these segments were verbatim plagiarism of the original work.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:1)
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:1)
oh yeah - thats what im talkin about
not a star wars fanboy - just reakon the films are a blast
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2, Insightful)
Sure, Anakin Skywalker went to the darkside because he was desperate to prevent his visions of his wife's death from coming true. No one would ever be tempted by the devil to save the woman (or man) they love from death?
And yeah, that love dialog from Episodes II and III sounded like it came from two socially inept, isolated teenagers who had never been encouraged to explo
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2, Insightful)
Really? I thought it looked like one huge computer game. Is this what passes for special effects these days? 2001 had more realistic looking space ships and that's ancient.
Re:Visualisation is the only thing he's good at no (Score:2)
The dialogue is still painful. The cameos are still pointless. The action is still flat. But there's so much more going on it manages to be fun anyways.
Mocap suits (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Mocap suits (Score:1)
Re:Mocap suits (Score:2)
Droidmaker (Score:2, Informative)
Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:1, Insightful)
#1. If it is real life with real actors, you already have years and years of experience looking at it in 3D. It's called "life".
#2. If it's computer animation, it's fake so it doesn't matter. They create what you want them to.
This is where "art" comes in. It's not just directing, it's lighting and cinematography. Playing with a toy isn't going to make your movies any better.
Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors.
If you think that Peter Jackson is a mediocre director, sure. The Lord of the Rings included *numerious* pre-visualization shots. If you watched any of the bonus content on the DVD's, you would see some of the pre-vis stuff on the Mines of Moria scenes where the Fellowship is being chased by the Orcs. I think the movie was fabulous, and if pre-vis made the movie any better (which IMHO it did) then let the mediocre directors continue their work.
Visualization has at least two benefits that I think of right off the top of my head.
1. You as the director may be able to visualize what needs to happen, but communicating that to other people can be difficult if you don't have ESP. This allows the artist to communicate an idea to other people via a medium that is easy to conceptualize. Yes, that's what story boards are for (like the article says), but
2. It allows you to build a set without going through the costly motions of actually having to do it. This goes for virtual sets as well. While this method seems a lot more expensive than hiring a graphic artist to draw it in 2D story board cells, 3D permits you to make changes without having to redraw a whole frame, this in turn allows the crew to explore changes and make iterations very quickly. It also makes a good point of reference for those who are responsible for creating CG add-ins to the movie.
Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:1)
Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:1)
Re:Sounds like a toy for mediocre directors. (Score:1)
a) Stand in front of them and attempt to describe in detail what you plan to do
b) Spend a week with CG artists to be able to SHOW these producers what you can do with that bigger budget
I think I'd pick B, how about you
Reminds me of totalwar... (Score:5, Interesting)
I hope ideas like that start becoming more commonplace. I like the idea of using 3-D digital storyboarding in realtime, it sounds pretty awesome. It'll be exciting to see if this turns into more of a production tool that ends up getting used in movie and not just in the development process.
Lucas doesn't like human actors (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Lucas doesn't like human actors (Score:2)
for a movie that everyone loves to bitch about (Score:2)
Re:Lucas doesn't like human actors (Score:2)
For example, in the famous scene where Han Solo is frozen in Carbonite, Leia says "I love you" and Han replies "I know." It's a great scene and fits the character of Han Solo quite well. Lucas was furious stating that he wanted Han Solo to reply "I love you too."
Bu
Lucas' vision proves he is terrible (Score:3, Insightful)
George Lucas is an idiot. He bitched for years that the original trilogy wasn't what he wanted, they weren't his real vision, etc. And they were fantastic. With the prequels, he was promoting how his vision could finally be realized - and it sucked. He got what he wanted, and the movies were terrible. They were
Welcome to 1999, George (Score:4, Insightful)
Peter Jackson and WETA started using pre-vis before production began on LOTR.
Other firms may have used it even earlier.
Re:Welcome to 1999, George (Score:1)
Re:Welcome to 1999, George (Score:1)
A thought comes to mind... did EA have any easy way [ea.com] to bring movie LOTR geometry in the game engine? More probably they spent lots of money: either on converting the models or remaking them to render in realtime on a console.
Re:Welcome to 1999, George (Score:2)
Peter Jackson and WETA started using pre-vis before production began on LOTR. Other firms may have used it even earlier.
Yes and Lucasfilm was a pioneer of previs long before PJ and Weta. In fact Peter Jackson, Randal William Cook and a small group went to Lucasfilm around 1998 and visted ILM to see how previs was done there and later setup a dept. at Weta for the production of the first LOTR.
You could say storyboarding is a kind of previs, and Lucasfilm was a pioneer in using animatics for previs pur
Plot inspiration (Score:3, Funny)
80-year old Hans Solo: What happen?
Yoda: The bomb has somebody set up us, hmmm...
A marketable purple gay alien chipmunk: We get signal!
Reincarnated Darth Vader: AYBABTU.
If Yoda spoke Zero-Wingese (Score:2)
Re:If Yoda spoke Zero-Wingese (Score:2)
Seeing Lucasfilm made me excited, then sad. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm sick and tired of their recent obsession with 3d, it just doesn't look as good. I would love to see a 2d adventure game from them that would run natively at 1600x1200 and scale down to lower resolutions.
Can anyone honestly look and tell me that this 3d Sam & Max [samandmax.net] has more artistic style than this 2d Sam & Max [samandmax.net]??
Or this [samandmax.net] is better than this [samandmax.net]?
I'm not opposed to 3d games mind you, lord knows I didn't buy this Nvidia board for running OO.org faster and Grim Fandango was utterly phenomenal. I'd just like to see Lucasfilm games, lucasarts, whatever, spend more time in making a well written, well crafted worlds and games, rather than just "Wow, it's an adventure title, but in 3d!"
Re:Seeing Lucasfilm made me excited, then sad. (Score:2)
Except for the utterly horrible controls. Seriously, some genres aren't really suited to be played with a gamepad and adventures are one of them.
Like Machinima? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Like Machinima? (Score:2)
As far as the market, it has really exploded lately. One of the first using modern technology was Pixel Libertarion Front (they use Softimage), but people from Lucasfilm/ILM left and created 2 companies specifically geared towards previs: one is Halon Enterta
Will it be coder or a debugger? (Score:3, Interesting)
The tools we use (like language) influence us in our choices and views. While greater tools can allow greater accomplishments, their purpose is should be to allow a complex process to be addressed simply, not to allow a simple process to be more complex.
In computers, one of the best ways to get a real understanding of computer programming is to debug a program without a debugger. At most, using a couple of print statements to allow some additional helpful information. The advantage to a lack of information is that it requires A) truly understanding how the mechanism works which leads to B) attempting to keep the code human-readable.
In places where a debugger is available, I have seen too often that the tool is use to simply find the problem and move on. After all, if I know that the loop is crashing, break the loop before the end of the run and see why it went too far. This is great for catching simple errors, and I do not knock the debugger for helping me realize that I accidentally incremented the wrong variable. What I do like is that people raised on debuggers generally cannot see anything other than simple operations. It will not explain why mutex is not being freed or many systemic problems; however, because he or she was never forced to think through his or her problems, the symptom of the problem (not the problem itself) is coded around at the location where the problem shows up in the debugger.
I cannot help but think that while this tool will be used to model some nice things, but I think a lot producers fail to realize that most people will happily take some good acting, a reasonable plot line, and intriguing dialog over wiz-bang camera zooms. Thank God for Battlestar Galactic.
Re:Will it be coder or a debugger? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Will it be coder or a debugger? (Score:2)
Also, imagination is good, but currently it isn't directly transmittable to other imagination processors.
Re:Will it be coder or a debugger? (Score:2)
The whole idea of creating movies is about transferring imagination into a concrete represenation of that story. This is just adding an extra step, to ensure that the process is proceding correctly.
writing? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:writing? (Score:1)
He needs a gadget to help him write believable dialog.
is this new? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:is this new? (Score:2)
What people seem to miss is what the article really is talking about. ILM and LucasArts for the most part worked with separate pipelines/infrastructures. Now that they're in the same facility in the Presidio, they share one. The new pipeline is based on Zeno, ILM's propietary 3D environment, which was first fully used on The Island and War of the Worlds (Zeno is actually based on dynamics code originally written for Star
Blue screen hell... (Score:1)
A good example of integration (Score:4, Insightful)
It was the pod race. I kept thinking "why is this in the movie"
Sure enough a day or so after i saw people playing a wipeout clone which features the phantom menace pod race.
I guess this is what they call synergy in the movie business.
Re:A good example of integration (Score:1)
A few things.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sullivan discusses that pre-viz is a good and modern solution, but he doesn't mention that pre-viz can also be slower and less fine tuned than the work of a storyboard artist. Illustrators can offer style, better/faster continuity, and the ability to develop an entire shot rather than developing rough 3D-geometry. If it were up to me, I'd keep both around.
So sure, the technology and tools get better, but it doesn't necessarily make a better film.
Disney made that mistake with their cel animation department, and they all got laid off (thank god for Lassater).
Square did it with Final Fantasy and threw away the storyline.
ILM seems to be a very traditional studio in the sense that they follow a typical pipeline for production. I just hope they clearly understand the benefits of keeping these illustrators around.
Re:A few things.... (Score:3, Informative)
Let me be on the record as saying (Score:1)
F.O.R.C.E (Score:2)
F.O.R.C.E. == Film Origination Realized [through] Computer Enhancement
(in all seriousness though - this is what the Presidio was designed for - was to facilitate extremely high collaboration between the groups developing digital media. I think that (someone) will be successful (moreso than now) with this, I can only hope though that as this tech matures the "plastic-ness" of the generated movies will dissapear (e.g. King Kong)
the human element (Score:2)
I think the collaboration would be better, if it was simply someone with enough balls to say "Hey, George, an Amos and Andy alien is a titanically stupid idea. You should rethink that."
Oh, and listening to him would be a good idea too.
More technical gizmos don't make a basically bad idea any less bad.
Lucas-X get over it (Score:2)
Second, Lucas, the future of movies isn't in making everything a special effect. I am sure if George had his way he would have preferred making the last Star Wars film entirely digital, including the actors. For God's sake, there was more emotion and conviction in digital Yoda's performance then ALL the live actors combi
Like Bryce? (Score:2)
Re:OMG (Score:3, Funny)
Re:OMG (Score:5, Funny)
In the original version, I posted first!!
Re:next thing you'll know... (Score:2)
But actually, I think you're making a valid point. Advent Children was a great step forward in all-out CG movies, just compare it to that _other_ FF movie, the folks at Square really did their homework this time. Even if it was pure fan service and many people were disappointed about story & characterization for example (I wasn't), they still put the Star Wars prequels to shame.
While I really don't need more films out