In Defense of FFXII 146
Next Generation has an article defending many of the somewhat 'controversial' decisions made in the design for the newest chapter in the Final Fantasy series. While it recieved a 40/40 from Famitsu, Final Fantasy XII has recieved some harsh criticisms for straying as far as it has from the Final Fantasy norm. From the article: "With Gambits turned on (and configured with just five minutes of commonsensical thought), battles go at least twenty times more quickly than in any other RPG. At their best, Final Fantasy XII's battles resemble rollicking fights in fantasy movies. The player merely directs his party through an area, freezing the action when he sees fit to make adjustments on the battle plan (stronger enemies appear, et cetera). This alone should be enough to qualify XII as a 'videogame.' The controller's vibration, for example, provides wonderful feedback. Yet players feel betrayed. They say, 'I want to press buttons.' They say, 'I don't want to watch my videogame.'"
Sounds more like a "Role Playing" game (Score:4, Insightful)
Good for them!
Re:Sounds more like a "Role Playing" game (Score:1, Interesting)
While I certainly find the series to be enjoyable, I never get the sense that I have any real control of the character outside of combat and exploration.
Re:Sounds more like a "Role Playing" game (Score:2)
Re:Sounds more like a "Role Playing" game (Score:1)
Gameplay? (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't it's major selling point the whole story line and cinematic visuals. Having played a few of the more recent ones I think this feature would be really beneficial when you get about 3/4 of the way through and spend hours tediously looking for fights to level up before the final battle.
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Wait, what now?
FF I had a lot of deep choices? It was almost completely linear. (the only real "choice" was whether you go to Gurgu Volcano before or after the ice cave.
IV and V had complex job and leveling systems
FF IV had no job system. The levelling system was simple: Get enough XP, go up a level. If level = X, learn spell (for shifting values of X).
FFV was really when the game started giving you choices and becoming le
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
Tough boss fights? Give me a break. Perhaps they might have been slightly annoying before the world of ruin, but afterwards, once you get every character past level 40 and do all the extra side quests to get the rest of the good gear and spells, you can pretty much stomp over all enemies in the game. Overall, I found this Final Fantasy to be one of the easier ones.
It's still a great game though!
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Well, yeah, once you do all that. But not everyone finds all the secrets, or cares about all the sidequests. And the bosses on the "critical path" of the storyline shouldn't be impossible for them.
The only way to keep both groups happy would be to scale up boss difficulty with party strength. I am actually pretty convinced some game
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Mini-games are the absolutely most annoying part of RPGs for me. I'm playing for story, for drama, for the strange new world I get to explore with each new game (and ideally, though less often these days, for the ability to make decisions that affect the story in serious ways).
I don't want to have to deal with reflex or memory challenges when I'm playing an RPG. I'm not here to hone my twitch skills, or test my patience. If
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2, Informative)
Things you should know...That was a disney like "direct to video" sequel of FFX..it is a fanboy/girl title. It quite honestly is a joke of a FF title.
You picked up the lowest rated FF game, ever "."
Sorry you made an uninformed illgotten choice. Next time bother actually reading reviews and you might find what you want.
Here's a quick pro-quo guide.
FF4 Classic good vs Evil Fantasy story. (SW like, but no injokes)
FF5 Lite on story, heavy on new battle system at the time (jobs)
FF6 Class
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
Remind me again why reviews matter? They're someone else's opinions, not your own.
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
next we'll be hearing positive things about microsoft and Bush and negative things about apple and lunix!!!
group think is there to protect u from personal responibility and educated opinions... and from the black helicopters
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
FF4: The standard. Requires level grinding but not nearly as much as previous games. Above average difficulty.
FF5: Same gameplay as FF4 with the job system that adds a lot of depth. Requires some level grinding. Hard difficulty.
FF6: The esper system makes many of the character seem a little bland, but the gameplay is still solid. Well paced - little or no level grinding required. Average difficulty.
FF7: Slightly weaker gameplay system that often s
Re:Gameplay? (Score:2)
Rob
Re:Gameplay? (Score:1)
Classic RPGs (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:2)
Perhaps you should say, "I wouldn't mind seeing a Zelda style, action oriented Final Fantasy IV [or VI, or VII, etc.] game."
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:1)
The name FINAL Fantasy seems to imply that the adventure (fantasy) would be the FINAL one for those characters. This idea of course was broken with FFX-2 and the several offchutes of FFVII.
I do remember hearing a theory a few years ago that could have tied the first 6 to the same world, just not in that order.
Storyline:
Good vs. Evil
Usually the main characters have a prexisting relationship with the one of the
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:2)
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:1)
Final Fantasy had a crossover with Mario RPG (Culex and the Crystals that parent was talking about). More things like this need to be done.
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:1)
But I got alittle annoyed with Kingdom Hearts.
Sure all those other "worlds" being attacked was part of the story, but I thought it got to be a bit too much.
I never played Mario RPG, but which FF game is Culex from?
The only references I can find say he wasn't from any FF game, but just designed to look like he was.
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:2)
Well, now at least I don't have to actually play through that game....
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:2)
Then perhaps take a look at the Seiken Densetsu series?
Final Fantasy Adventure [wikipedia.org] was the first game in the series. It was later remade as Sword of Mana [wikipedia.org]. The second game in the series is a favourite RPG for many people: Secret of Mana [wikipedia.org].
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:1)
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:2)
I'm utterly excited about this. I haven't bought the last 4 Final Fantasies, but I'll buy this one. I can only hope it lives up to the promise of being the Final Fan
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:1)
I wouldn't mind seeing a Zelda style, action oriented Final Fantasy game either.
Crystal Chronicles?
Re:Classic RPGs (Score:1)
Not planning on getting this one (Score:5, Informative)
I like RPGs not just for the story, but for the challenge of beating some bad guys using some tactical thinking. The demo didn't offer any thinking. I'll watch a movie or read a book instead if there's no meaningful interaction with the game.
Re:Not planning on getting this one (Score:1)
And if you liked Grandia and haven't played it yet you should give Shadow Hearts a try.
Re:Not planning on getting this one (Score:1)
Re:Not planning on getting this one (Score:2)
It's funny (Score:2)
Rob
Here we go. (Score:2)
#1. Setting up your characters in the right way for the situation at hand. Practically every jRPG since..FFV? Has featured some sort of ultra-involved and flexible character setup. Limiting it to FF series alone..it's about having the right Jobs, having the right Espers, having the right M
Re:It's funny (Score:2)
Not quite. You'd have to be very lucky indeed to make it through FF3 with that strategy.
Then there's the fact that many of the FFs put their gameplay in the things surrounding the battle system, such as the advancement system and the equipment system. You may not have to min/max to make it through, but it makes it easier and more fun to do so. But with the exception of
Re:It's funny (Score:1)
As someone who has been playing Final Fantasy since long before the graphics became any kind of selling point, I'm going to have to go ahead and say that's one of the most worthless things I've read all day. Thanks buddy!
Here we go again. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm an RPG fan in general, and a Final Fantasy fan in particular. I like some of them more than others. The one's I'm not much of a fan of - wait for it, this is the good bit, the bit with "+1 insightful" written all over it - I don't play with anymore.
Re:Here we go again. (Score:1)
With games like Final Fantasy, it's hard to pin down exactly what it is about the game that made it so compelling. Was it the setting? The story? The battles? The graphic style? OMG if they change one of those aspects, are they going to ruin the magic? Honestly, I think the reactions you mentioned are perfectly normal and to be expected. Peopl
Re:Here we go again. (Score:2)
As far as i know FF4 and FF5 didn't change much and they're two of my favorites. FF
Re:Here we go again. (Score:2)
That said you don't have to buy it on a sliding scale either. You can just chose not to buy it. Now here's the great part, if it's released on a console you can rent it and try it for a few days for a substantially reduced cost (compared to buying it) and see if you like it.
LINK TO ARTICLE (Score:1, Informative)
That would be horrible (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:That would be horrible (Score:1)
But then again I played on the PC, not x-box.
Re:That would be horrible (Score:1)
I find myself drawn to games where I can micromanage and yet I loved the combat in both KOTOR and KOTORII (but the story in KOTORII sucked).
Square is definitely trying to remove some of the "grind" through automation and this is definitely a welcome change in terms of modern gameplay. The problem is all of the gamers who grew up on dungeon crawlers and the early FF titles and have posters of Chrono Trigg
Re:That would be horrible (Score:2)
Rob
Re:That would be horrible (Score:1)
Gambits sound *great* (Score:3, Interesting)
So, I was thinking about the gambit system, and I have come to the conclusion that it sounds great. RPG combat (from what I've seen, and the games I've seen other people play) is not really a battle of brains, but situational timing. And so being able to program how I would play ahead of time, sounds pretty cool.
I wondered how much this would translate to MMO play. I decided it would make for a horrible game, where you just continually ran forwards and hoped your gambits didn't suck. But what if the gambits were perhaps meshed to a trading card battling type thingy? Maybe that's too geeky.
But if you could program a gambit system for World of Warcraft... I think it would be worryingly simple for some classes like the Rogue. This makes me question my whole love of WoW: why do I love something so very... repetitive? Guild chat and stuff is why I keep coming back, so maybe gambits *would* be better, then I could just sit in the chat room and see whether I live or die.
It's an interesting system, and I'll definitely give the game a rental when it arrives, just to see how it all plays out.
Re:Gambits sound *great* (Score:2)
Re:Gambits sound *great* (Score:1)
Re:Gambits sound *great* (Score:2)
Enix's Influence (Score:2, Insightful)
FFXII is the first Single-Player FF game since the MMORPG was released. Square and Enix have settled into their new role as a combined company, thus ideas from both sides will unsurprisingly be incorporated into the game. So, future FF games will start to look like a cross between FF and Dragon Quest. Dragon Qu
Some of your facts are off... (Score:1)
... can I have yours, then? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:... can I have yours, then? (Score:2)
Also, if the system is not sophisticated enough it could be a problem. Say I run up on an ice creature, normally I'd have the mage cast "fire" on it. Is there going to be a rule like "Target (Fire Weak) creature"? The article made it sound very primitive, although I can easily see the battle system designed to re
Re:... can I have yours, then? (Score:2)
Re:... can I have yours, then? (Score:1)
Yes. The circle button always brings up the standard menu. Changing your action -- even targeting another enemy -- causes your ATB meter to reset, though.
Re:... can I have yours, then? (Score:2)
i think the author was touching on the fact that in most final fantasy games its quite rare to see the game over screen. not all, but the majority of RPGs are way too easy and simple. if you level properly, and buy the right equipment and magic, you are guaranteed for the win. with only few exceptions, such as fighting the final weapon bosses in ffvii, you can pretty much trample on anyone. if you find yourself in trouble, you can always run.
in
Re:... can I have yours, then? (Score:2)
1 kill this specific target (you choose which)
2 protect this specific ally (your choose which)
3 flee/run away from enemies.
4 attack enemies but save allies if they are critically wounded
#4 is the basic AI that most enemy characters play with; some do #1 instead, targeted on your main character.
The downside? These are over
"I don't want to watch my videogame" (Score:2)
As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:1)
Re:As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:1)
Re:As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:2)
Say you've got one Tank, one damage platform, and one healer (these can be any of
Re:As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:1)
Re:As someone currently engrossed in the game... (Score:2)
watching : playing ratio in FF games (Score:1)
This is a joke, right? Are they actually talking about Final Fantasy games? Outside of Xenosaga, the FF games have the highest ratio of watching : 'playing' I've ever seen. And the stories (at least in the later ones) are pretty amateur trash that hardly bears sitting thru. Although having said that, the only FF game I've really put time into was FFX, and the rock/paper/scissors gameplay of that game turned me off the FF games forever. Although I hear the earlier one
Rock paper scissors gameplay isn't that bad (Score:2)
I've played the Fire Emblem series and I never really had any problems with this type of gameplay. I've also played Age of Empires Age of Kings where this was also prevelant. It's not a feature that will doom gameplay. In some instances it makes sense like Age of Empires where a pikeman definately has the advantage over someone on a horse and
Re:Rock paper scissors gameplay isn't that bad (Score:1)
The RPS style of combat in Fire Emblem was exactly what inspired me to put that game
Re:Rock paper scissors gameplay isn't that bad (Score:1)
"Rock beats everything, right?" (Score:2)
Just like Chuck Norris! He always chooses rock. If you choose paper, he punches you in the face with his clenched fist and says "I thought your paper was going to protect you".
teaches those who run into battles aimlessly... (Score:1)
You have died^H^H^H^H fainted. (Score:2)
the endless casting of pheonix down and such made dying "just another part of the game".
Items such as Pick Me Up in Super Mario RPG and Phoenix Down in FF7 had the effect of turning dying into the equivalent of fainting. The Pokémon series just ran with this realization.
that and... (Score:1)
Re:that and... (Score:2)
Re:You have died^H^H^H^H fainted. (Score:1)
Re:teaches those who run into battles aimlessly... (Score:2)
A.I. Innovation (Score:2)
Well I'm Sold! (Score:2)
Maybe it's just me... (Score:1)
Of course this might have something to do with the fact that I haven't had a game console since the N64. And even that was a hand-me-down from a friend.
Maybe I'm just getting old...
Redundancy (Score:1)
The new tagline for the game (Score:1)
Where The Spirits Within meets Progress Quest. (With 5 minutes of setup via GUI).
Gambits Are *Awesome* (Score:2)
Re:Gambits Are *Awesome* (Score:4, Interesting)
Sounds like Dungeon Siege (Score:2)
How could they?! (Score:1)
How totally bizzare!
May the wind be always at your back,
-Tim_Ceete_Smith
I didn't agree with the 40/40 (Score:1)
...and even though I haven't played the game yet, I still don't agree. There's better games out there, and even better plots if that's what people play FF for.
I also agree pretty much with this article [geocities.com], but it's directed at all of the series, not just XII.
Progress Quest (Score:2)
The Best Sign of a Poor Battle System.... (Score:2)
My girlfriend and I are playing through Dragon Quest VIII and learning chess at the moment. In one, we set the thing on autobattle and watch animations. In the other, we make c
Betrayed? (Score:2)
I thought everyone who felt that way stopped playing FF years ago?
Re:Uh.. story link? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Uh.. story link? (Score:1)
As far as I'm concerned Final Fantasy is just about finished. Dragon Quest 8 did a great job l