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Iceland To Drill Hole Into Volcano 275

Posted by Hemos
from the tapping-the-earth-for-energy dept.
G3ckoG33k writes "BBC reports that Iceland will drill a hole into a volcano so it can tap heat from it, which eventually is hoped to produce commercially available energy. From the article: "Twenty years ago, geologist Gudmundur Omar Friedleifsson had a surprise when he lowered a thermometer down a borehole. 'We melted the thermometer,' he recalls. 'It was set for 380C; but it just melted.'". Excuse me, Gudmundur, but how could that ever have been a 'surprise'..."
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Iceland To Drill Hole Into Volcano

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  • by eldavojohn (898314) * <eldavojohn&gmail,com> on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:10AM (#15002011) Journal
    Don't they realize that Volcanic Energy has directly caused more deaths [pbs.org] than Nuclear Energy?

    When will people learn that there is no safe form [phillyburbs.com] of energy?!

    The volcano gods are gonna be so angered when they find out Iceland is mooching the heat. If I know my mythology, nothing (and I mean nothing) pisses a god off like free stuff for humans. We should just rename Iceland to New Pompeii right now.
    • Wait till some genius pitches his idea to the board of directors that they could get so much more energy from the volcano if they induced an eruption!
      • by eldavojohn (898314) * <eldavojohn&gmail,com> on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:22AM (#15002077) Journal
        Setting: Two men in suits with charts stand before an Icelandic government committee.

        Pitch Guy 1: "Boy it sure is cold out today! Now, I know this sounds a little far out there, but we've been studying the volcano over there and we predict that it has energy equivalent to 20 million tons of TNT. Now that energy is, by our god given right, ours. It's just as valuable as the oil underneath the Middle East. So, we induce an eruption."

        Pitch Guy 2: "It's that simple. But John, won't the people be mad that the government is getting all this free energy?"

        Pitch Guy 1: "No, no, here's the best part. That energy will be distributed ... equally."

        Pitch Guy 2: "Gentlemen, I think the real question here today is, 'How can we afford not to induce an eruption?'"
    • Of course, so has fossil fuel energy.
    • I guess they don't remember that movie (I forget the name actually) where the people tried to drop a nuclear bomb down a long tunnel to crack the earth's core to tap the nuclear energy. All hell broke loose, and all that was left was one guy and one girl. I sure hope the girl is hot and I am the one guy.
    • Re:Warn Iceland! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by rpjs (126615)
      The volcano gods are gonna be so angered when they find out Iceland is mooching the heat

      Having visited Iceland, I'd be willing to bet that the Icelanders have already talked it over with the volcano gods and cut them in for a share of the profits. This is, after all, a country that builds roads around boulders because the elves live in them.
      • This is, after all, a country that builds roads around boulders because the elves live in them.

        And I suppose you could think of a better reason to build roads around boulders?
    • The volcano gods are gonna be so angered when they find out Iceland is mooching the heat. If I know my mythology, nothing (and I mean nothing) pisses a god off like free stuff for humans.

      Who said anything about mooching or getting stuff for free? They are just going to toss in a virgin every now and then, problem solved. I bet there will be a shortage of virgin real damn quick, followed real soon by a population increase.

  • by The Snowman (116231) * on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:11AM (#15002017) Homepage

    If you ever drop your car keys in lava, forget it man, they're gone.

  • Doctor Who (Score:5, Funny)

    by lisaparratt (752068) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:13AM (#15002026)
    Do they not watch Doctor Who in Iceland?

    It'll be green skinned monsters and parallel universes before you know it!
    • Re:Doctor Who (Score:5, Informative)

      by Trestran (715384) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:25AM (#15002096)
      And for those of you wondering exactly what the hell he is talking about: Inferno [gallifreyone.com], a Doctor Who story, in the first season of the third Doctor. It's pretty decent Who story, where a similar experiment ends up blowing up the world (they drill completely through to the crust though). Which the Doctor witnesses in a parralel universe, so he can warn his own universe of the dangers of the experiment. Throw some weird green hairy zombies in, to make sure you do not forget it is Doctor Who. :P

      After watching Doctor Who for the first time with the new series last year, I've actually started going through all the old Doctor Who stories I never saw in chronological order, and boy is there a lot of (26 seasons, to be precise). And I just happened to have watch Inferno yesterday, so it is fresh on my mind, and was actually the first thing I thought of when I saw this newsbit also. :)
  • by BadAnalogyGuy (945258) <BadAnalogyGuy@gmail.com> on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:13AM (#15002027)
    I took a field trip once to the local hydroelectric dam and learned all about how hydro is safe and clean and provides a large recreational grounds after the water has accumulated behind the dam. It was pretty cool.

    Now if they can build a geothermal plant that actually improves the landscape, I think they are on to something. Free energy ceases to be free when you ruin the surrounding area with ugly power plants.
    • by Overzeetop (214511) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:18AM (#15002058) Journal
      Yeah, pretty cool until you find out that there are environmental consequnces to dramatically altering a river basin. Not that the drawbacks always outweigh the benefits, but it's not exactly the "free energy and waterskiing nirvana" that the tour promoters would like you to see. Remember - it's in their financial interest to build hydroelectric plants, there's a conflict of interest.

      Oh, and if anyone wants to decide to build a dam near me, just make sure that you give me the heads up so that I can buy a few thousand acres of future waterfront before the prices go way up. (Hey, for the kind of money we're talking, I'll play the game, too!)
      • I would second that.

        Just look at Russia, it has the largest hydro deployment in the world now and the results are not pretty. River deltas are drying, there are massive changes to the environment, climate which was as healthy as a climate can get 100 years ago has become practically lethal in many places. A big hydroelectric tends to keep the river right after it open all winter. As a result the humidity goes into the 100% condensing range which when the outside temperature is around -40 is outright deadly.
        • Out of interest, why is it deadly to have 100% humidity in very cold weather?
          • Humidity raises the specific heat of the air, effectively making it a better heat conductor. 30 degrees with 60% humidity is far more dangerous than 0 degrees with 20% humidity. Combine high humidity with wind chill and things get downright lethal very quickly.

            I grew up in North Dakota and have fond memories of scraping ice off my windshield while wearing boxers at below zero (with no wind or humidity). I would never consider doing that here in Tennessee 'cuz 29 degrees with 60% humidity is COLD!
            • Yeah, decreased circulation and metabolism due to age wouldn't have anything to do with that either...
            • Not to be pedantic (because you are basically right), but if you are scraping ice off of a windshield then the dew point would have been pretty close to the ambient temp at some point (meaning the relative humidity was high). In a 20% RH environment, there will not be any condensation unless the surface where the ice forms is MUCH cooler than ambient.

              So if you said, when I lived in ND and went out to get the mail in my boxers and didn't get cold because of 15% RH versus freezing my sack off in pants doing
      • Oh, and if anyone wants to decide to build a dam near me, just make sure that you give me the heads up so that I can buy a few thousand acres of future waterfront before the prices go way up. (Hey, for the kind of money we're talking, I'll play the game, too!)

        Now why would they want to do that. Were you one of the politician who was critical in getting the funding (and had your hand out)?

        These guys aren't going to let you in on their game unless you have something to bring to the table.

    • by gcranston (901577) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:25AM (#15002094)
      There's a host of problems with hydroelectric that rarely get talked about. Damming the river slows the water, reducing the size of sediment it can transport. This causes all the sediment from upstream to settle out at the inlet to the dam resevoir, raising the bed level drastically. Changes in the river like this are detrimental to fish and plats in the river, and have also grounded many boats. This is why very few hydroelectric dams have been built in North America and Europe in the past few decades. For these and a host of ethical reasons (like displacing a couple MILLION people), the Three Gorges Dam should never have been built in China.

      I'm not aware of any of these kinds of issues with geothermal (I really do support the idea), but then I don't know that much about the technology. Just pointing out that hydroelectric is far from 'free' when you build dams to do it. The thing is not everyone has something the size of Niagara Falls to generate power from. (Even then , Niagara does not acount for very much of Ontario's total power generation.)
      • There's a host of problems with hydroelectric that rarely get talked about. Damming the river slows the water, reducing the size of sediment it can transport. This causes all the sediment from upstream to settle out at the inlet to the dam resevoir, raising the bed level drastically. Changes in the river like this are detrimental to fish and plats in the river, and have also grounded many boats. This is why very few hydroelectric dams have been built in North America and Europe in the past few decades.

        As

      • http://www.epa.gov/cleanrgy/renew.htm#geothermal [epa.gov] land can sink in
        http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298814/ [imdb.com] the core could stop rotating

        Personally, the one lesson I've learned in life, is that NOTHING is without consequences.
        Make a simple change to make something easier, you may find you've made something else harder...

        The fact is, nothing is 'without' issues.. they just may not be readily apparent before they are present.
        and they may be disasters....
        • Addtionally, I don't have a link for it, but sometime geothermal stations a reported to produce a constant low rumbling sound. I would have to imagine it would have to be a pretty quiet area in order to notice.

          But forget that, great job getting a reference to "The Core" in there.
        • hahah. If its in the movies, it must be true. Bravo!
          Even classier, how the first link doesn't say anything about the land sinking in. Genius. Mods take notice, this is a classic troll.
          • read the last line again, then please apologize.

            "it may cause sinking of land at the surface"

            As to the movie ref, consider, take the heat out of the center planet, will the magnetic core still do it's job?
      • by ottffssent (18387) on Monday March 27, 2006 @11:13AM (#15002848)
        Yeah, Three Gorges has its (major) problems. But to say it should never have been built is a luxury you have because of living in a country fairly well-provisioned for its future energy needs. As these things go.

        China's projecting enormous increased demand, and there's no good way to get the energy.

        They can bet on coal, which China actually has quite a lot of (though not so much on a per-capita basis), but it's something of an environmental disaster even if it's burned cleanly.
        They can bet on nuclear, which presents waste storage problems and relies on finite supplies of fissionable material.
        They can bet on wind (not sure of the viability of that, but I'm sure at least SOMEWHERE in China there's good wind), but it takes up a lot of area and apparently isn't so good for birds.
        They can bet on solar, which is even worse in terms of taking up space, and is expensive, and only works for half the day.
        They can bet on hydroelectric, which displaces people, permanently changes the river, and nukes a whole lot of land. And that enormous lake is going to affect the weather.

        There are other options too, of course. And the best solution is a mix of many different technologies. Etc. But the fact is that there's no good solution. China bit the bullet and picked what they hope is the least-bad choice. It had to be done.
    • Ah yes... I can see it now.

      Come to beautiful Iceland and enjoy jetskiing on our lovely LAKE OF FIERY LAVA!

      It works for me, should be a sure fire thing to do.

      But what happens when they start exporting this energy and in 20 years we're depleting our planets natrual heat supplies? Will this help counteract the global warming being caused by well... depleting our other natrual resources?

      When will a celebrity champion this cause so it can finally make sense to me?!?
      • Will this help counteract the global warming being caused by well... depleting our other natrual resources?
        Sure it will. We eventually tilt the balance and a supervolcano covers the world with a cloud of ash inpenetrable by the sun. When it's all over, humans = oil for the dinosaurs ;)
      • Will this help counteract the global warming being caused by well... depleting our other natrual resources?

        Not necessarily. Exploiting geothermal power often releases significant quantities of CO2 and methane, both greenhouse gasses.

    • by C0vardeAn0nim0 (232451) on Monday March 27, 2006 @01:19PM (#15003883) Journal
      tell this to the thousands of brasilian farmers who were displaced by huge hydroelectric projects during the military government between '64-'85 who hadn't been setled in new plots to this day, tell this to other thousands who leave nerby the lakes who have to deal with clouds of mosquitos that reproduce in the shores and can cover the sun when then fly seeking for blood to feed their eggs, tell this to people who live downstream the dams and see the rivers that suply them reduced to little more than creeks in times of drought...

      i've seen all of these here in brasil, where 90% of the electricity comes from hydroelectrics.

      hydropower also has it's environmental price tag, don't let the marketing departament of a utility fool you.
    • ..., learned all about how hydro is safe...

      It's generally safe, but I'd hate to be downstream if there's a major earthquake that's stronger than what the dam was designed for.

      There's also the terrorist angle, and the war time target angle. A German dam was the target of Allied operations [wikipedia.org] during WWII.
  • In other news, Icelandic scientists have set up a network of precisely timed explosive devices in a tunnel into the heart of the volcano in order to harvest billions of dollars worth of "blue diamonds" extremely useful for use in electronics.
  • Surprise (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tibor the Hun (143056) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:15AM (#15002037)
    It was a surprise because his hypothesis was that they would find thetans living there.
    • Re:Surprise (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Bueller_007 (535588)
      I assume you got your information from a recent South Park episode.

      FYI, nobody was lowered into a volcano. Nuclear bombs were placed into the volcanoes, 75 million people were placed around the edges of the volcanoes,
      and the bombs were subsequently detonated.

      The rest of the story is "correct". The disembodied souls (called thetans) were then sucked up into vacuums and forced into cinemas to watch brain-watching movies.

      So there you go. I guess you could say that my version of the fake truth is more true th
  • Here's a transcript from the experiment:

    Leela: OW! Fire hot!

    Farnsworth: The professy will help. AAAH! Fire indeed hot.
  • by Scarletdown (886459) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:24AM (#15002089) Journal
    "Twenty years ago, geologist Gudmundur Omar Friedleifsson had a surprise when he lowered a thermometer down a borehole. 'We melted the thermometer,' he recalls. 'It was set for 380C; but it just melted.'"


    He should have known better than to try to take a volcano god's temperature rectally.

    • RTFA (Score:5, Informative)

      by Hakubi_Washu (594267) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {netsok.trebor}> on Monday March 27, 2006 @10:10AM (#15002354) Homepage
      The summary is bullshit, even by /. standards. They were drilling for conventional geothermal energy, that is water heated by a lava flow nearby (extremely common in Iceland). Given the high pressure they were expecting high temperatures (the quoted 380) and still liquid water (due to the pressure). What was surprising is the fact that the water was probably more than 500 and actually melted the thermometer. Given this discovery (aka The water in this depth is much hotter than previously calculated) it makes perfect sense to a) explore the reasons for the higher temperature and b) use that for a more efficient power plant. There's no volcanoes involved at all.
      • by ozbon (99708)
        I'd suggest RTFA yourself - paragraph 1:

        "Geologists in Iceland are drilling directly into the heart of a hot volcano."

        Hmmm, I'd say that the story involved a volcano, and thus the summary is fairly well on-target.
  • Dr. Evil (Score:2, Funny)

    by xx_toran_xx (936474)
    Oh, yes, they /say/ that it's for an energy source.

    I have a feeling they just want to create an evil lair.
  • Ok so how long before the volcano erupts and utterly destroys a multi million dollar power plant built on its side with earthquake action/lava flow/pyroclastic flow? Even if this were an inactive volcano, those things can randomly become active, spelling doom for the poor saps who would be staffing the power plant (not to mention the millions of dollars down the drain when your spiffy new power plant goes up in smoke, literally). This is your power plant *shows picture of power plant* This is your power p
  • by 10Ghz (453478) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:29AM (#15002115)
    Nation to drill a hole in a volcano. Lava discovered. News at eleven!
    • Nation to drill a hole in a volcano. Lava discovered. News at eleven!

      You left off the best part. Next day: "Nation drills hole in volcano. Nation disappears. Lots of new lava found."
  • by gregor-e (136142) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:36AM (#15002155) Homepage
    Trouble with extracting geothermal energy is that rock is a pretty good insulator. Once you get the first enthusiastic bout of steam and have cooled a few feet of rock around your pipe, the heat leaches back in very slowly. Unless they can create and sustain a lava tube that is constantly eroding in the presence of circulating magma, (or use a heat exchanger in constantly circulating hot water), this is unlikely to be successful.
    • You seem to assume that the rock down there is dry. The fact of the matter is that the rock has lots and lots of fractures and tiny tunnels through which water flows. The water, or steam, flows to the surface and there the energy is extracted from it. Like the article says they have already gone down to 3,082m and are now conducting flow tests, which means they are seeing how much water is coming up the hole. Of course there is the possibility that the waterflow is below a certain threshold which would re
    • I was just there last fall and 70% of the country's energy needs are provided by geothermal. Seems to be working pretty well to me. I realize it's harder than it looks, but geothermal is certainly viable. I even swam and bathed in the runoff from one of the powerplants. Quite enjoyable, actually :)

      Cheers.
  • Water wet (Score:2, Funny)

    by smoor (961352)
    In other news, scientists in New Zealand were surprised to discover that a moisture probe the had developed capable of measuring humidity from 0-90% malfunctioned after being lowered into a mysterious salty substance found at the edge of the island.

    Due to the malfunctioning instrument, scientists are still unsure about what this salty liquid mixture could be.
  • I can attest to this..... Growing up, I didn't take the best care of my teeth, but lived on an older house with a well system that didn't have the best water softener system (tubs had rust caked on, the water smelt like sulfer). The thing is, I never got a single cavity. With how I ate, that is the only way I can explain my lack of cavities.
    • A lot of stuff to do with cavities has nothing to do with how well you brush your teeth. I also took pretty bad care of my teeth as a child, but my water was regular city water, low in sulphur. I take better care of my teeth now, but I still find it amazing that I got by without any cavities. Other people I know took very meticulous care of their teeth, flossing, and did all the right stuff. They still get regular cavities. I'm not sure of the cause, as IANADentist, but it may have something to do with
  • by Rob T Firefly (844560) on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:42AM (#15002188) Homepage Journal
    volunteered to lead the team for personal reasons. [imdb.com]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 27, 2006 @09:52AM (#15002244)
    Okay. Everybody's joking about it, but here's the solution to the puzzle of the "surprising" heat: that's 380+ Celcius *WATER*, not lava. The area being studied is on the sea floor or kilometres beneath the land surface, and the water is under great pressure. As a result, it gets much hotter than surface water, without boiling. Sometimes the "water" in the sea floor close to these volcanic areas is a supercritical fluid -- beyond the temperature-pressure conditions for distinct gaseous and liquid phases.

    Supercritical water is pretty exotic stuff in power systems. There are some advanced fossil-fuel power stations that use it, and supercritical nuclear power systems are being developed. They offer higher thermal efficiencies. In Iceland, they might be able to get the same thing going, but with renewable geothermal sources, which would be great, but first they have to tame some pretty extreme conditions in the boreholes.
  • Yellowstone park (Score:3, Interesting)

    by WindBourne (631190) on Monday March 27, 2006 @10:21AM (#15002417) Journal
    Hopefully, if this works, we will start more taps in wyoming/montana around Yellowstone park. I realize that some will worry that we would tap too much heat out, but if we work from the outside, it is doubtful that we could change Old Faithful. It is time that we take advantage of none destuctive alternatives such as this (as well as nukes).
    • Re:Yellowstone park (Score:4, Informative)

      by Bob3141592 (225638) on Monday March 27, 2006 @10:41AM (#15002585) Homepage
      Hopefully, if this works, we will start more taps in wyoming/montana around Yellowstone park. I realize that some will worry that we would tap too much heat out, but if we work from the outside, it is doubtful that we could change Old Faithful. It is time that we take advantage of none destuctive alternatives such as this (as well as nukes).

      It is a good idea, and of less concern than you think. Geothermal energy should be exploited more, but it's uncommon to find a good natural source with a configuration that makes it economically feasible to exploit.

      However, your comment about geysers is incorrect. Geysers form under very peculiar circumstances, needing long vertical shafts with interveening chambers of a certain geometry. Under more common conditions you only get hot springs or boiling mud pots. Geysers are spectacular and rare for a reason. Also, Old Faithful hasn't been since an earthquake in 1998. Faithful, that is. It used to go off like regular clockwork, but now it's much more sporatic. In general, geysers often simply stop erupting, most commonly because mineral deposits change their geometry or choke off their vents. Earthquakes, ubiquitous in regions with geysers, are another major factor. Fascinating objects, really, and worth a closer look.
    • Re:Yellowstone park (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Eccles (932)
      Given that Yellowstone is a potential supervolcano, one wonders if tapping the energy there would reduce or increase the chances of it becoming one. It might work as a safety valve, or might trigger changes that accelerate the process -- or might just be like a match in an already raging forest fire.
  • Foolish scientists! Don't they understand what sort of fury they'll unleash?!? [amightywind.com]
  • Names! (Score:3, Funny)

    by slavemowgli (585321) on Monday March 27, 2006 @10:24AM (#15002439) Homepage
    Feel free to mod this off-topic, but... can't we *please* try to get the names right? The man's called Guðmundur Ómar Friðleifsson, not Gudmundur Omar Friedleifsson. (I've written about this before [slashdot.org], too.)

    Yeah, I know, the summary's just copied from the BBC article, and the BBC makes the same mistake (and even calls him "Friedleifsson" instead of "Fridleifsson"), but shouldn't Slashdot try to maintain a higher standard of quality than the BBC? ...OK, I give up, I can't say that last line without laughing. But jokes aside, it still would be nice if the editors actually took the 30 seconds it takes to, y'know, *edit* a story.
    • I'd rather people use the transliterated version that they have a prayer of sounding out. I mean, my grandmother's name was Guðbjörg, but in kindness to Anglo tongues--and eyes--in the U.S. she simply went by Byerg. Not anglicized per se, but more along the lines of my going as John rather than Jón, since hardly anyone is going to see that and get "yown" anyway.
  • I wonder if they will be surprised when the drill begins to melt? :-)

    Seriously this just sounds like a bad idea if there is significant population anywhere near there. I'm not a geologist, but I'm not impressed that they were suprised by the thermometer melting either. (Perhaps thats just bad reporting/translation.)

    • Re:High Temp Drills (Score:3, Informative)

      by x2A (858210)
      "but I'm not impressed that they were suprised by the thermometer melting"

      It was in liquid water at the time, which changes things somewhat. Also, whilst drilling into the "volcano", they're only drilling into rock, not into the magma, so the danger isn't what you imagine.

  • by Phoenix666 (184391) on Monday March 27, 2006 @11:20AM (#15002923)
    cool to think that you can tap volcanos for energy. question is, if you're drawing off that energy, might you not also be reducing the likelihood of a catastrophic eruption? i am a simple caveman lawyer who does not understand your modern ways, but that would be pretty neat.
  • by sacherjj (7595) on Monday March 27, 2006 @11:27AM (#15002968) Homepage
    At depth, the groundwater is way over 100C, but the pressure keeps it liquid. As Dr Friedleifsson puts it: "On the surface, you boil your egg at 100 degrees; but if you wanted to boil your egg at a depth of 2,500m, it would take 350."

    Sorry, but I HATE stupid analogies that only help make stupid people reading them, dumber. It would take 350C for the water to boil, but non-boiling 100C water will "boil" and egg just fine. It is a good thing that 340C water isn't hot enough to burn you down there, because it isn't "boiling". Sheesh....

    Lets see, pressure of water to boil at 350C is around 1100 psi (guess from extending this chart [engineeringtoolbox.com]). So the question is, can an egg in a shell withstand 1100 psi to even be boiled?
    • If the vapor pressure of the water exceeds the ambient atmospheric pressure, it will "boil" (state-change to a gas). Temperature is a factor of vapor pressure, but completely independant of whether something "boils" or not.
  • ... hence the amazement that the water was at the temperatures that melted the thermometer.
  • What if there are elves [nytimes.com] inside the volcano? How would you like it if an alien race drilled through your house? The people of Iceland are so insensitive.
  • What about Krakatoa? What about Pompeii?! What about Asian Tsunami? History has shown us the terrible dangers of geothermal energy! Geology has killed far more people than even the satanic nuclear power!

    How do we know that careless drilling into the molten subsurface of the Earth will not cause Iceland to explode in a fiery, flaming, orgy of death that will make Krakatoa look like a birthday candle? How do we know that it won't trigger some subsurface earthquake, and create a tsunami that will destroy the s
  • 'It was set for 380C; but it just melted.'

    I guess he should have bought the thermometer that goes to '11'..... ;^)

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/ [imdb.com]
  • I always suspected that Icelanders were boring. Surely it is possible to find a place between the surface and the magma where the temperature is consistantly around the temperature we use in other power plants. We could just pipe water from that depth up to a conventional Steam Generator and create steam in the second loop. This would not require exotic materials or open us up to triggering a volcanic eruption. Beyond this guy being surprised by the water temperature, I don't see anything here that is e

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