Internet Explorer Not Dead Yet

turnitover writes "The future's not all Firefox, Deer Park and Camino, insists Microsoft. At its Mix '06 conference in Las Vegas, reports Microsoft Watch, company execs insisted that there's a bright future for IE. They not only distributed a 'layout-complete' build of IE 7.0, but offered hints about what the new version of the browser geeks love to disdain (yes, it will include ActiveX) will include. Also shown: tools to test IE compatibility. But with what? Standards or IE 6?"

Standards and Bueller, both missing.

[ackthpt]

Also shown: tools to test IE compatibility. But with what? Standards or IE 6?

Right.

"See? It it renders these pages, full of our own standards, the W3c be damned. What's not to like?"

Wait, wait.. OK, never mind. I thought I was going to be whelmed by word of IE 7.0, not overwhelmed mind you, but only whelmed. But the feeling passed, I'm OK now. Really.

Honestly, I use Firefox for almost everything simply because I prefer the way it behaves, meaning, it behaves.

Mar. 17, 2006, 50th anniversary of Fred Allen's [wikipedia.org] passing [pjstar.com]. "As the chinese teapot said to the auctioneer's hammer, I'm going-going-gone!"

Re:Standards and Bueller, both missing.

[uomolinux]

Not dead yet but not verry popular in my business. We only use it for some MS update, we are curently replacing Office for OpenOffice.org, but wait... Google is preparing something too ;-)

Dead

[certel]

I still find that IE is faster than FireFox and hope that they can continue to work out the bugs... Wow, am I really saying that? I've tried FireFox and although I am a fan of the browser, I still find that I use IE more.

Still trying to figure out the statement

[NorbrookC]

FTA "reduced need to hack around quirks in older browsers, however, means that existing pages written specifically for older browsers may render differently in IE7. In addition, IE7 includes a number of new security features which may have impact on binary extensions such as toolbars, browser helper objects, and ActiveX controls."

I'm still scratching my head over this. From what I think this says, it means that the pages that relied on the MS specific stuff for IE5x and 6 won't look the same when viewed with IE7. Which doesn't say anything about following standards, or comparing it to how the page looks using FireFox and Opera. And, the new "security measures" will screw up all the toolbars, objects, and ActiveX that they've encouraged web developers to use. Gee, wasn't this why I switched to FireFox in the first place?

As long as they have an iron grip on the desktop OS, and insist on intertwining it into their OS, of course it has a "bright future." It doesn't mean that it's going to be any more secure (although hope reigns eternal), or be compliant with standards. I'm still trying to work out what the hell they meant.

Re:vista only?

[ackthpt]

It's certainly dead if it's a Vista-exclusive

There's two ways to get Vista into the hands of schucks:

• Have sommat supported by some tool (like IE7) which is so necessary, the user has no choice but the upgrade*.
• Cut a deal with PC makers so ONLY Vista on installed on new PCs, further fragmenting and forking** the market.

Vista will be out there, but keep in mind, there's a lot of users still dorking along on Win 95, Win 98, ME, NT, 2000, etc. and they're in no hurry to switch. Why pay an a Technology Tax every few years?

* The term Upgrade is used figuratively.
** Also f__king the market.

Re:ACID 2.0 Test

[kimvette]

While I am also a Firefox fan and use it despite Konqueror's being very nice and passing the Acid2 test, it should be pointed out that Firefox does NOT pass the Acid2 test. At least, Firefox/1.5.0.1 does not. The dev tree might, but who counts that? One may as well claim that Looking Glass [sun.com] is the best operating environment ever - but since it's vaporware/unreleased it would be a false statement.

Sure, Firefox breaks less than IE does when loading the Acid2 test, however by a strict measurement, only one (two) browsers to date pass Acid2:

KHTML (Safari/Konqueror)

If you want to count dev trees/beta releases, then you've got:

Opera
Firefox

Also, I think it's great that the Opera folks are almost mocking Microsoft, and challenging them to pass Acid2. Aside from KHTML which is there, and MSIE which TOTALLY pukes on it, Every other browser is almost rendering Acid2 to be recognizable as a smiley face. At least everyone else is attempting to handle proper CSS and bad CSS correctly, e.g, render compliant CSS, and downgrade gracefully on broken CSS.

What MSIE renders could just as well be accomplished by splashing paint on a sheet of canvas. With the way Microsoft is handling things, I wonder why they don't just ignore CSS altogether and turn their browser into a random pixel renderer?

Get with the program, Microsoft. You have the greatest market share so it is in your best interest for maintaining your share to act responsibly. I hope the mass reaction to MSIE 7.0 is for major sites to either block the browser, or to use CSS which causes MSIE to totally break, and for those sites to recommend all browsers which are not MSIE as alternatives.

Microsoft has held the web back long enough with their refusal to implement proper PNG rendering - their holding back the web has to stop now.

Re:Standards and Bueller, both missing.

[lowrydr310]

Unfortunately my workplace requires IE - several company sites that I need to regularly access don't work in anything but IE. I installed Firefox and in addition to not being able to view those few sites, the IT department hunted me down and made me get rid of it because it's "unauthorized software" (it's funny when the unauthorized browser is more secure than the authorized browser, eh?).

Re:Standards and Bueller, both missing.

[bmalia]

Firefox IMHO is a much better user expierence with tabs (once you get use to the idea) and having a little search box.

I just wanted to comment on tabs and the little search box. I was helping a not-so-computer-literate friend out the other day. When I suggested he google something, he clicked on the icon to open up a new browser. I then suggested he close that new window and open a new tab. Which I had to teach him how. Then he started to goto google.com, and I stopped him suggesting he type it in the search box. Which he did, but instead of pressing enter to submit it, he pressed the go button just to the left of it. That go button only works for the URL, not for the search. So i had him put the cursor back in the search box and press enter.

A simple task turned into a crash course on web surfing. Is he the only idiot out there or are there thousands of other firefox users out there not using firefox's ease of browsing features simply because they don't know how?

Re:Firefox has some work to do too...

[Al Dimond]

Firefox interface looking ancient? What would you replace it with, FisherPrice-looking crap? Ugly blue gradients like Office and now OO.o? Apple-style glass effects? Why is it that every time Microsoft or Apple comes out with an ugly new look people think sensible designs are outdated? Count me out! I'd rather have FF look like Motif than Office or the current Netscape version!

Re:In other news..

[Firehed]

Especially when their products have upwards of 80% market share... Don't get me wrong, I love Firefox, but it hasn't come anywhere near killing off IE. Honestly I still can't see why MS cares - if nobody uses their browser, less coding for them and less potential tech support. MSN Search, maybe; but the browswer itself, being freely available and all, is hardly a money-spinner.

Re:Standards and Bueller, both missing.

[Dunrobin]

Everyone where I work uses IE, because (a) they haven't a clue about other browsers, and would probably be lost if you made them use a different browser, and (b) we use several IE-only web apps. I manage to confuse everyone by using Firefox, since the IE Tab extension lets me access those "IE only" web apps without any problems. Hell, I can even use it for the Microsoft Updates site! ;D

Re:Trusted Network Connect

[Fanboy Troy]

What happens in 2015, once neither high-speed ISP in your geographic area works with anything older than Vista or any Linux kernel that isn't the official unmodified kernel of a major commercial Linux distribution? Would you move house to escape Trusted Network Connect?

What better way for him to defy the TNC movement than to jump ship now?
How will the big corporations avoid anti-competetive laws when they are locking out everybody else?
Why should any corporation benefit from TC and not my own goverment (read country)?

What you are arguing is that TC will oneday prevail and then it's adios-linux-as-we-now-it. But I'm betting that TC, as you fear it, also equals to adios-independant-developers, and this includes the big number of windows developers. So there is to much at steak for TC to pass without a fight. IMHO, in time it will just be rendered a useless overhead and if anything, another technology that will plague windows with stifness...

So, to GP: Don't let Billy-Gates scare you away. The linux way is the future. Microsoft is fighting a losing battle...