Windows XP on Intel Mac Confirmed 627
niemassacre writes "According to winxponmac.com, the contest has been won - nearly $14k to narf2006 for submitting a working solution to dual-booting Windows XP and Mac OS X on an Intel-Powered mac. A thread on osx86project.org has confirmations from several testers that the procedure works on the 17" iMac, the Mac mini, and the MacBook Pro. Many sets of pictures and videos (such as this installation video) are floating around (and mentioned in the thread). The solution itself should be posted soon." Poit! Congratulations to narf.
Re:MacBook Pro (Score:2, Informative)
I don't work for them, just a satisfied customer.
Here's a link http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/ [ragingmenace.com]
Regards
Charlie
Mirror of the movie (Score:5, Informative)
be kind to their server (Score:4, Informative)
forum
http://forum.osx86project.org.nyud.net:8080/index
Video:
http://www.projectosx86.org.nyud.net:8080/winonma
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Crossover Office is pretty good on Linux. I'd rather use something like Wine (provided it worked on 100% of the stuff I need -- wishful thinking) than VMWare. Having said that, I'd rather use VMWare than dual boot.
Can't play the video (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:2, Informative)
The only thing to complain about is the high price of non-OEM Windows. If you want to run Windows games on your Mac, you still have to pay a few hundred dollars for Windows XP to run them on.
Re:Great... (Score:2, Informative)
But trust me, this is something a lot of people have been looking forward to, as well.
from macrumors (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Or you could, y'know, buy an OEM copy [scan.co.uk]...
(For that route, you still need to buy new hardware. Although a mouse is classified as an 'integral system component'. I need a new mouse anyway - this Logitech effort looks a bit manky.)
Re:Irony (Score:5, Informative)
Some points to bear in mind: (Score:5, Informative)
Windows NT was built from the beginning to run on multiple processors, it had a very advanced hardware abstraction layer built in. The other versions never sold very well and there were problems with application support (e.g. people targetting multiple processor arch's). Apple has clevery overcome this obstacle by including "Rosetta" from the start, something similar existed for NT Alpha called FX!32 but I suspect by the time it was released it was too little too late to save the OS.
I'm sure that the HAL is in place in NT derived operating systems to this day and if MS were so inclined they could do another port. However, there's no real business need (as there is for Apple with their transition) so it's never been done. They target the largest installed hardware base.
The issue with getting Windows on Macintel to work is that EFI is so fundamentally different to the traditional BIOS XP expects that you require either the source code of the OS kernel to make it work or have to, as has been done here, provide essentially a bios emulator. This is nothing to do with portability or HAL's, it's about having access to the fundamentally low-level parts of the operating system, something people outside MS don't have.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? 3D acceleration under VMware is on the way (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound
It's in experimental stage, but looks promising.
The following link tells how to enable it for a given guest O.S.:
http://www.vmware.com/support/ws5/doc/ws_vidsound
Re:Big deal (Score:3, Informative)
explanation (riposte) (Score:5, Informative)
According to Intel documentation [intel.com], using a CSM that plugs into the EFI framework should allow for booting BIOS-based operating systems:In the words of Jim Cramer, "booyah."
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
-nB
Re:I'd prefer a VPC-like solution (Score:3, Informative)
There is also VirtualPC (sloow and buggy)
I've been using VMware for years now on my personal laptop. It's barely usable in speed terms.
But why use any of these? I'm not interested in running small PC apps my grandma gave me on a CD she got from the cover of PCWorld magazine! And there is nothing I really need to run on my Mac apart from games and doing
Let see, there is Omnigraffle? for Visio replacement, MS Office, Java SAPGUI for OSX (not perfect though) and many more equivalent applications.
No, I would have to say, I would primarily need Windows for games and thus practically require it to dual boot.
I've got an old iBook, a DELL Inspiron laptop and a fastish desktop, and I'll replace all of this with a sleep, light MacBook Pro. (Since I will be traveling soon, and will need something to play Oblivion and X3 on...)
Emulation is cool, granted... but native for games is even better.
Re:Perhaps a stupid question... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Graphics card? (Score:3, Informative)
Supported hardware? (Score:2, Informative)
From the screenshots available on the osx86project.org website it seems that there's still a bit of work to be done: finding drivers!
Here's the Windows Device Manager on iMac Core Duo - http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?s=ab17121
The drivers that need to be (and most if not all will be) found are:
- ATI Radeon X1600 PCI Express video driver
- Ethernet 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit) driver
- Airport Extreme driver
- Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR driver
- iSight driver
- IR receiver driver
and possibly 4 other drivers (Bus controller, Chipset, etc.)
I don't know if sound works or not (sound devices aren't expanded in the image). I'm guessing that Firewire and USB 2.0 don't need drivers (Windows XP SP2 supports them out of the box usually)
And then the drivers will have to be found for similar devices on the other Intel Macs (MacBook Pro, Mac Mini)
Very possible (Score:4, Informative)
Re:an end to speculation (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/03/16/xponmac/i
Re:MacBook Pro (Score:3, Informative)
As long as they are USB, PC mice are fully supported out of the box -- no problem.
The same is true for PC keyboards, with a few annoyances. All the functions are available, but the Mac-specific ones are on non-obvious keys, which is somewhat annoying. The following is as found out experimentally on my Logitech officially-PC-only keyboard, for which there is no Mac driver available, in combination with my PowerMac G5:
There are utilities available with which you can switch the Command and Option keys around so that on PC keyboards they are on the location you would expect. I use uControl [gnufoo.org] on Mac OS X 10.3.9 (Panther) to achieve this, but it doesn't run on 10.4 (Tiger). The uControl webpage refers to fKeys [kodachi.com] as an alternative for Tiger, but it doesn't seem to have the Option and Command key reversal feature, so I don't know how to get that functionality for Tiger. I imagine there must be something out there, but I can't be bothered to look it up right now.
I hope this helps.
Re:Dual booting is unpractical (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive6/ [mediafour.com]
Re:The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (Score:2, Informative)
Or perhaps this? http://www.mactel-linux.org/wiki/Main_Page [mactel-linux.org]
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Can't play the video (Score:4, Informative)
Re:All Extremists (Score:2, Informative)
That give, I agree with you ^^
Re:Installation video (Score:2, Informative)
Bye!
Re:Big deal (Score:3, Informative)
Re:MacBook Pro (Score:3, Informative)
Myself, I'd just get a small USB mouse to plug in. Then you get a scroll wheel too.
Re:So where's the meat? (Score:2, Informative)
Mirrors for the files you need to do this...... (Score:3, Informative)
http://leewilkins.com/share/winxponmac0.1.zip [leewilkins.com]
http://www.jerrybrace.com/Winxponmac%200.1.zip [jerrybrace.com]
http://www.geekdinner.co.uk/winxponmac0.1.zip [geekdinner.co.uk]
http://www.apple.tempex.sk/wordpress...nmac%200.1
http://individual.utoronto.ca/kkapoor/winxponmac0
Re:Dual booting is unpractical (Score:3, Informative)
Not quite true. [suspend2.net]
Re:MacBook Pro (Score:3, Informative)
The key-swapping feature is built-in to Mac OS X Tiger. Take a look at your Keyboard section in System Preferences. (The only problem with this is that it swaps it for all keyboards, which is annoying if, say, you have a laptop with a built-in keyboard and want to use a generic PC keyboard).
That said, the Microsoft and Logitech drivers for their respective keyboards also include this functionality (and then some) and also allows you to customize what all those extra buttons do, which is nice if you have one of their keyboards, but not so useful if you want to, say, use an IBM Model M keyboard via a USB-PS/2 adapter (which works great), so you'll need to use Tiger's built-in swapping functionality.
Custom Slipstreamed XP CD? (Score:4, Informative)
For those of us who work in IT, like me, and have already created a slipstreamed XP CD with the latest security updates (and storage drivers--thank god for that! no more F6 during an install), I want to know how to add the XP on Mac fixes to that already-prepared CD. Oh, and I want to know how to do that without having to go and actually figure it out myself (mostly because I don't yet have an Intel Mac of my own to play with). WINNT.SIF I can handle, but I'd rather leave TXTSETUP.SIF to someone more knowledgeable (hopefully that will work with the iastor drivers that are already inserted into my CD).
From a quick glance at the patch provided, it looks like it provides the iaStor drivers for the Windows installer to be able to access the hard drive (since the Intel Macs appear to use an Intel 945 chipset with ICH7 storage, this makes sense, since you can't exactly hit "F6" during boot to load the drivers from a floppy. It also looks like it adds a custom framebuffer driver, since the X1600 is apparently one of the few things that doesn't have working drivers yet (everything else seems to be supported by the generic Intel Chipset drivers, the generic Marvell Yukon Gig-E drivers, the generic Broadcom WiFi card drivers, etc). I guess the X1600 issue isn't an issue on the Mac Minis, since those have Intel 950 integrated graphics.
In any case, this is the greatest news I have heard in a long time. I really want to get a MacBook Pro to replace my aging Power Mac G4/500 DP and my crappy eMachines laptop, and I want to dual-boot Windows XP just so I can play games at LAN parties without having to drag my desktop system around (and run a few bits of Windows-only software). For day to day use, nothing beats Mac OS X.
Torrent to the solution (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Here's a pic of it running:
XP running in QEMU [jonathanwatmough.com].
mirrors (Score:2, Informative)
Win XP on Mac - HowTo and files - v0.1 (Score:2, Informative)
Remapping mod keys is built in to Tiger (Score:2, Informative)
Tiger (the latest OSX, included with all Intel Macs) includes this functionality. Open the "Keyboard & Mouse" preferences, and click "Modifier Keys." Remap to your heart's content.
Re:from macrumors (Score:2, Informative)
In general the argument would be that the item you are purchasing is a limited right to copy the software included in the package. Ordinariy the law of copyright would make you liable if you did so without explicit permission, or if you exceeded the terms of a limited licence.
All other rights are reserved to the copyright holder, and indeed, it is an asset which is depreciated.
Penrose, in the Beta decision, used the following logic: without a EULA, there exists NO licence for Adobe to copy the software onto its computers, and therefore no legal way for Adobe to use the software at all. Therefore the EULA must be part of the contract, and enforceable by both parties. (Adobe enforces its right to copy pursuant to the licence, Beta enforces the limits within the grant of those rights, consideration is based on this meeting of minds).
Untested in English law is exactly how this interacts with section 50(c) of the current Copyright Designs and Patents Act, inserted to comply with an EU directive, which grants some rights to make copies as necessary to make software usable. That is, this is a statutory right to copy versus statutory and common law rights reserved to the copyright holder. It is likely that an English court would expand upon Beta and suggest that 50(c) applies only in the case where a limited licence is acquired which does not include wording with respect to "copying" by dragging from one partition to another on the same system for use by the same user, or by "copying" by transferring in and out of memory or by "copying" to a general set of backups which happen to overlap the software in question. This would be consistent with a civil code reading of the directive.
The salient point would be whether the software itself was acquired, or whether the limited licence to copy data from a sold medium to a useful medium was acquired. In the former case, the statute should apply, but this would be inconsistent with the reality of the past decade in the software market.
You are probably right that the contract completes upon (or very nearly upon) the copying of the software into the buyer's system, and that the seller cannot impose further restrictions from that point, including limits of liability and other terms that would conflict with the Unfair Contract Terms Act and the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations. However, prior to that completion, the buyer has the ability to reject the terms of the EULA and not exercise the licence. This would make him or her eligible for a refund from the seller.
A copy made for a third party after completion would certainly be a cause for action under copyright law. There is ample statute and common law in this area.
If EULAs are valid, and the EULA assigned rights to an agent to pursue such action under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act, a suit in England likely would be successful under both copyright law and contract law. The argument would turn around whether EULAs are valid in England, and likely would follow some of the logic in the Beta case from Scotland.
The 1952 Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots Cash Chemists decision in England which established that the contract is concluded at point of sale is not conclusive in the area of limited grants to copy. A solicitor who insisted that it is, and that this invalidates EULAs not clearly and fully displayed at the the point of sale despite the obvious hazards to natural equity, is not one I would wish to do business with.
Re:Dual booting is unpractical (Score:3, Informative)
You do not recall correctly.
Using CineMark 9.5 CPU benchmarks [tabsnet.com] on Windows XP, a 1833MHz Athlon XP (probably a 2200) gets 209, while an 1830MHz Core Duo uses 271. Factor in that a Athlon XP 2100 would be a little slower and the 2.0Ghz Core Duo would have the advantage of dual core as well as being faster, and the Core Duo is signifcantly faster. Furthermore, an X1600 will be much faster than Ti500...
The Apple would most certainly be the "faster" machine.
Re:So where's the meat? (Score:2, Informative)
Possible solution to do it without a PC! (Score:4, Informative)