Red Hat Pledges 'Integrated Virtualization' 91
OSS_ilation writes "Red Hat was all about virtualization in a recent announcement for an 'integrated virtualization' initiative with XenSource and chipmakers AMD and Intel. The move was seen as a way for Red Hat to bring its commitment to virtualization technology into 'sharper focus [...] with the release of a product roadmap that includes virtualization technology built into its enterprise version of Linux.' Red Hat's CTO, Brian Stevens, said the move would remove the complex 'rocket science' aspect of virtualization, and drive the technology into more enterprises as a result."
Virtualization in the kernel. (Score:2, Interesting)
it already is. (Score:5, Informative)
With xen you need a modified host kernel and do some tricky stuff with LVM to use Copy on write disks. With lvm it is the default, you can just point to a base image and have the users modifications in a separate file. The downside is the speed penalty: UML is 40-50% slower than Xen.
Re:it already is. (Score:1, Informative)
Your 40-50% figure is also highly misleading. When operations are I/O-bound, UML can lose to Xen by a factor of 100, but when it's CPU-bound, the overhead of either method is neglegible.
Re:it already is. (Score:2)
That you twist the advantage of COW into 'COW is hard but you don't have to use it' is your own special debating style I guess.
Re:it already is. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:it already is. (Score:3, Insightful)
UML on the other hand is
UML has far superior isolation from the underlaying kernel, it runs entirely in userspace so no jumping through hoops, and it is the same spee
Re:it already is. (Score:2, Interesting)
Sweet (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sweet (Score:1, Troll)
Red Hat and Xen - World leader in virtualization as
Re:Sweet (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
vmware emulated all hardware so that you can run every os under it. virtualisation means that the host and the client are almost the very same thing and share almost everything. this is much faster then the emulation approach but also more complicated to implement.
the disadvantage of virtualisation is that the client will have to be modified.
and surely there is currently no simple way to do that in linux that I am aware of.
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
That doesn't mean that its not freely available.
Re:Sweet (Score:2)
Re:Sweet (Score:4, Insightful)
According to Wikipedia's Xen article [wikipedia.org], Xen will work with any OS if you're using a recent AMD or Intel chip with virtualization extensions, so that's not strictly speaking true.
Solaris too (soonish) (Score:2)
Re:Red Hat leaving the desktop arena? (Score:1)
Re:Red Hat leaving the desktop arena? (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, they do. [redhat.com]
Re:Red Hat leaving the desktop arena? (Score:1)
Re:Red Hat leaving the desktop arena? (Score:1)
Regards,
Steve
Re:Red Hat leaving the desktop arena? (Score:2)
Re:This sucks (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:This sucks (Score:5, Informative)
In another form (which I know that Xen supports) it provides ways for the VMM to have control over the host OS, though Xen supposedly supports a number of these methods though ways not requiring modification to the source code.
There are others too (IE, replicating an image of a running OS, snapshotting the OS).
The article doesn't really tell you what they mean at all. I've seen all of these discussed in the context of Linux and Xen before. In fact, I thought that most of those were implemented.
Re:This sucks (Score:2)
Re:This sucks (Score:2)
Re:yAY! (Score:2)
You don't seem to understand what virtualization is. It just means emulating hardware, so you'll still be running 'the old MS OS' if you want Windows, you'll just be able to run it without dedicating any hardware to it. Check out VMWare, you can already do it for free today.
Re:yAY! (Score:1)
What is this? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What is this? (Score:5, Informative)
Beta testers == lab rats (Score:1, Flamebait)
"With Fedora Core 5, we will take the rocket science of virtualization away from the end user and get virtualization out-of-the-box experience in their hands," Stevens said.
Where it will promptly mutate in to a flesh eating form of virus, obliterating you, your family and your dog.
A word to the wise; Stay away from fedora cores. If you must use one, choose one that's been out for a while. Trust me; You'll be glad you did.
Re:Beta testers == lab rats (Score:1)
Re:Beta testers == lab rats (Score:5, Interesting)
You sound like a bitter, bitter Slashdotter.
This "Fedora's a beta testbed for suckers" stuff is utter crap. Fedora is a testbed not for stability, but for cutting edge technologies that may filter down into Enterprise many months later. And from what I hear, FC5 will introduce some exciting new things. The stuff that goes in isn't generally any more unstable or poorly-built that the pristine sources from which it derives, plus you've got the support of the community and the Bugzilla.
The Fedoras are nice, powerful distributions. Far nicer (and to be honest, I think more polised) than Enterprise. For me, they've got the right balance of modern usability and technical accessibility. Yes, I like cutting edge.
Re:Beta testers == lab rats (Score:3, Informative)
From what I've seen in going from "Rolling Your Own" to the FC5 distro, is that Fedora got it RIGHT on this one. "It Just Works" for me.
When the host machine gets rebooted, it doesn't even reboot the Guests. They just get suspended, and resumed when the machine comes back up.
Two Thumbs Up.
Red Hat + Xen (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:2)
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:2)
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:2)
I disagree. Where did you get that information?
I ran unixbench in a hosted Xen and it took ten times as long as on my workstation at home. So no, I don't think the performance is very impressive. I do think the rest is impressive, though.
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:3, Insightful)
In any case, do a benchmark with your workstation using Xen and without Xen. Remember to test VMWare or UML too. THEN you can say if Xen is impressive or not...
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:2)
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:2)
Re:Red Hat + Xen (Score:1)
Should be interesting, at least ... (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not the world's biggest RH fan as far as using it, however I do respect that RH basically made Linux the household word that it is.
The end result, regardless of the politics is going to be web sites and databases remaining available to visitors a larger percent of the time, and end users getting a firmer grasp on how their OS works
For consultants specializing in helping to bring virtualization to the table for their clients, fear not
My concern is RH distributes (stock) very insecurely. My hope is they also address issues like
I'm not a huge Fedora fan, but I do respect them enough to withold judgement until I see what they put out. I guess you could count me as 'cautious, but anxious' to see it.
Re:Should be interesting, at least ... (Score:2)
Really? And IBM had nothing to do with it?
Re:Should be interesting, at least ... (Score:1)
I had an old Think Pad , my first Penguin Laptop. It played a little sound byte when booting (RH7)
"I'm Good Enough, and I'm Smart Enough, And Dog Gonnit, People Like Me!"
On airplanes I used to mouth the words as it played, and it (usually) got me a bit more leg room as the person next to me would generally move after giving me (and my odd looking screen) a strange look.
But the topic was Red Hat, and moderation has b
Xen in the enterprise (Score:4, Interesting)
Currently using Virtuozzon on top of Red Hat (Score:1)
Re:Huh? (Score:1)
Re:RPM (Score:1)
Re:RPM (Score:1)
Re:RPM (Score:1)
Re:RPM (Score:1)
Xen Vs. Linux VServer (Score:5, Informative)
With Linux Vserver you only run one kernel on your system where with Xen each virtual server runs its own kernel. This presents some limitations for Linux Vserver. For example the guest virtual servers cannot have the network loopback interface lo. But almost all of these I could live without.
Now if I want to start adding more virtual servers I can, without having to worry about running out of memory.
Re:Xen Vs. Linux VServer (Score:5, Informative)
It is worth noting, though, that this is part of the point of what Xen is. Xen is a VMM, and part of the point is that you virtualize the machinery so you can run multiple OS's and such. This really is the direction that everything is going. The technologies that you can build on top of this are very... convenient.
Re:Xen Vs. Linux VServer (Score:3, Interesting)
To me, one kernel is an advantage, not a limitation. A kernel upgrade on a VServer box is a one-step operation, whereas on a Xen (or like) you have to repeat it for every guest.
Also a great thing about VServer is
Re:Xen Vs. Linux VServer (Score:3, Informative)
Not quite. Unless your guests use different kernels (in which case you wouldn't be using VServer anyway), you only have one guest kernel to worry about. I have a Xen machine running 4 Debian Sarge machines - in the boot directory of the host there is the host kernel and a guest kernel. All guest instances boot off that one guest kern
virtualization (Score:1)
Xen traded full OS compatibility... (Score:1, Interesting)
Anyone know which part of the full OS binary compatibility was traded?
Re:Xen traded full OS compatibility... (Score:5, Informative)
So you can only run operating systems that have been modified to run under Xen. So far Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD and Plan9 have undergone modification, at least according to http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/OSCompatibility [xensource.com]
Re:Xen traded full OS compatibility... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Xen traded full OS compatibility... (Score:3, Interesting)
Modified kernel vs. modified chips (Score:2, Informative)
Xen works with any OS as long as either the kernel has been modified to fit virtualization, or the processor has extensions that support it directly. So either way, Xen allow just any old system, though it isn't tied to a particular platform.
Just a word of caution though: Xen is "new technology," which basically means it isn't the most stable product right now, especially given its level of technical sophistication. Similarly, the new processors from AMD and Intel are, well, new; they will requi
Re:Modified kernel vs. modified chips (Score:2)
Xen + Mosix=? (Score:2)
-Ack
related question: running Office on Linux (Score:2)
What VMM should I be looking at, vmware, Xen, or something else?
Ah: also Wine and Crossover Office (Score:2)
There's a company w
Re:related question: running Office on Linux (Score:1)