Gamers Gain Political Voice 181
GameDailyBiz has a rundown on the just-announced Videogame Voters Network. The network has been established by the ESA with the intent of organizing gamers into a political force. Will Wright: "Computer and video games represent one of the most important new media developments of this generation. Unlike many other forms of entertainment they offer players the opportunity to explore, be creative, learn through interaction and express themselves to others. It is vitally important that we protect and nurture this new art form so that it can reach its full potential. Like most new forms of artistic expression that have come before (music, novels, movies), the primary critics of video games are the people that do not play them."
Really though (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Really though (Score:4, Funny)
And people laughed and cried about ebonics. Wait for this stuff to appear in the Congressional Record.
yo, aide, i need do some research, whip on down to the LoC and pick up a copy of "i pwn3d u b33y0tch"
Re:Really though (Score:1, Interesting)
Videogame Voters Network. Sheesh. How about something that doesn't sound like the next MTV awards.
1st: Videogame is almost instantly associated with children or those that are childish. Change it to Interactive Entertainment or Interactive Electronics
2nd: Network: wow. coulda picked a better one, thats for sure. Lets see. Association, Group, etc..
3rd: "Voters" is redundant, because politicians don't care about those that don't vote.
Re:Really though (Score:3, Insightful)
A response from a gamer (Score:2)
I am aged 18, and this post will contain exactly 1 (one) instance of the word "lol"-there.
First, I cannot give support to a group who makes a claim against legislation without quoting the legislation; in this day and age, they should link directly to the bill, or at least the press release. I have this same issue with the NRA, MoveOn, Michael Moore, and just about every other "grassroots" organization.
That aside, the main point of the Video Game Voters Network as it stands appears to be the defeat of T [senate.gov]
OMG!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:OMG!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:OMG!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
So... American politics as usual?
Re:OMG!!! (Score:2)
Probably some way to run said industry into the ground, so as not to give the rest of the sheep any dangerous ideas.
Gamers or Developers.. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Gamers or Developers.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gamers or Developers.. (Score:1)
Actually, the trend over the last few decades has been to de-classify homosexuality as a pathology.
Re:Gamers or Developers.. (Score:2)
Guess we'll see... (Score:2, Interesting)
This should be interesting. Granted there was the hue and cry (and plenty fun made) over remarks made by Jack Thompson [wikipedia.org], but other than rattling a pretty brittle man's cage, will this prove more of an effort of herding cats?
What about the dark and sinister people who come up with some of the really good (and controversial) ga
Official spokesman Pacman stated (Score:1, Funny)
Um. Not quite... (Score:2)
That, I think, was Fozzie Bear. Pac-Man said 'Wacca Wacca Wacca Wacca'.
Surely it's not THAT hard to get the icons of the early eighties straight?
This won't make a difference (Score:4, Insightful)
This sounds like a good idea from the perspective of trying to protect the gamer's "rights" but in the end it will do nothing for the average gamer and everything for those who seek to control gamers. Lobbying groups and voting groups only have power as a minority unless they have the money to get real attention from Congress. This group won't raise anywhere near what is required to move Congress to act.
When Congress does act, it will always act in ways to make itself powerful. Laws that seem to help the masses really only help a select few, with the masses losing more of their rights. I'm a firm believer that the interstate commerce clause was written to give power to Congress to just keep the states in line in not usurping the rights of the people. Nowadays, most people think the clause gives Congress the power to do anything it wants to do.
If you really believe we're supposed to live freely, you have to leave the gaming market to the competitive market -- developers aren't going to make games that people don't want to play. If even 5% of the entire nation decides to buy a game, that's stil 15 million people. Yet 15 million people is a minority in voting -- if 95% of the nation is against a particular game, why should 15 million people be shut out?
I'm also anti-voting [blogspot.com] as I feel voting is what causes the minority decision to be criminalized. The best voting is voting done with your dollars -- each and every action you make to buy something or to refuse to buy something creates the rules of the market. These are rules that change every day as the buying decisions change to reflect what consumers want.
The end result will be more rights lost as the voting group gives up a little bit in order to gain a little bit. The problem is that no one gains anything when it comes to Congress, except for the preferred few. What you really think you're gaining is something you had a right to all along, until you decided to give up some of those rights in exchange for protecting some other rights that never really needed protecting. In the long run, the slippery slope rule says you'll lose all the rights as those in power taste more and more of that power.
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:1, Troll)
"In the long run, the slippery slope rule says you'll lose all the rights as those in power taste more and more of that power."
The slippery slope "rule?" The term "slippery slope" refers to a class of logical fallacy, not a "rule."
And that, my friend... (Score:2)
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhhhh... voting rights act of 64'? Americans with disabilities act? Freedom of information act?
Or, like, ALL of the amendments to the Constitution that guarantee personal liberty? I cite numbers 13, 14, 15 and 19 as personal favorites, but it applies to all of them. They ALL start in Congress, dude.
The one thing that I do agree with is that you should not vote. It's nothing personal, I'd rather everyone was a part of the process, but if you don't see the capacity of Congress to do good (despite its obvious and frequent shortcomings) it's probably best that you sit this out and leave it to those of us who want to keep expanding the sphere of personal liberty, through, well, proven methods.
(shrug)
So-called interstate commerce (Score:1)
Or, like, ALL of the amendments to the Constitution that guarantee personal liberty?
What about the overly broad interpretation of what constitutes commerce among the states and regulation thereof?
Re:So-called interstate commerce (Score:1)
What about the possibility that "overly broad" is a subjective measure?
Gonzales v. Raich (Score:2)
What about the possibility that "overly broad" is a subjective measure?
True, but what percentage of Slashdot users do you expect would agree with the opinion of the Court in Gonzales v. Raich [wikipedia.org]?
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:3, Informative)
No, the first three started in Fort Sumter (and would not have been ratified without armed occupation), and the last one started in the states (by the time Congress did it's "me too!" amendment proposal, you could count the number of states that did not grant women sufferage on one hand, if that).
Of course, voting is one thing, ballot access is something completely different: all suffra
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:1)
Its just that kind of attitude... (Score:2)
The second you decide that your vote doesn't count or your voice doesn't get heard is the second it doesn't count or get heard. You can either sit there and take it, or get up and do something about it. Apparently some people want to get up and do something about it. We need more of those people.
Re:Its just that kind of attitude... (Score:3, Interesting)
That's the reality -- Congress and the Federal government have gone out of control. The framers intended th
Erm... (Score:2)
Bipolar much? (Score:2)
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:2)
But haven't you heard? Minorities are ruling America. I saw it on Fox news so it must be true!
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:2)
So Bill Gates gets 100,000 times more votes than me?
Tried That (Score:2)
We tried that before. It was called tyranny. Didn't work out too well as it happened.
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:1, Insightful)
Voting with your dollars is using voluntary cooperation to make changes.
Voting at the polls is using coercion via force to make changes.
Only one is peaceful and freedom-loving, the other is called government.
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, I suppose those without money have no right to express their interest in society. If they want to, they can just go get some money, using the free and equal access that all Ameri
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:3, Interesting)
Employment "rights" have been slowly destroyed by the law, not made better. Minimum wage laws have made it very hard for the young, the uneducated and the minorities to find entry level work that teaches them responsible work ethics as well as a trade. The Americans with Disability Act has made it much harder for the
Sure you did man (Score:2)
Seriously, I admire you though. You run retail stores, which you apparently shut down to spite the IRS, despite claimed "record sales", a record studio, IT, and numerous other business, while all the time writing multiple books which no one else seems to have read or heard of, multiple blogs and newsletters, and posting and engaging in numerous long
Re:Sure you did man (Score:3, Interesting)
No, actually my retail stores were shut down by the local taxing agent over fouled paperwork filings. We had record sales for the industry at the retail level, and everyone at the taxing body was shocked that we were forced to close for 2 weeks as we were one of the top earners in our field, for the state. After that closure I lost faith in the ability to continue earning, and voluntarily left the retail
Oi vey (Score:1)
A question: would you like a tinfoil hat? I hear it keeps the government from controlling you mind from that chip they put in it.
~ Wizardry Dragon
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:5, Insightful)
Congratulations on having a personal experience outside the norm, but not everyone is so fortunate...in fact, most are not. Claiming that education has nothing to do with income is like claiming that starvation has nothing to do with poverty...it sounds and feels good, but has nothing to do with actual data examining life earnings correlated with educational attainment.
"Employment "rights" have been slowly destroyed by the law, not made better. Minimum wage laws have made it very hard for the young, the uneducated and the minorities to find entry level work that teaches them responsible work ethics as well as a trade. "
Are you honestly trying to say that workers had more access to a safe work environment and non-discriminatory hiring practices in the era before the government enacted regulation enforcing such things? Where exactly was this happening?
"The Americans with Disability Act has made it much harder for the disabled to get jobs, and it has made it much harder on employers to even interview someone with a disability."
Ah yes, I recall that prior to its passage, employers were falling over themselves to hire former mental health patients, the wheelchair-bound, and deaf folks until the nasty government made them stop. Oh wait; actually, the complete opposite happened.
"Business licensing and regulations have made it difficult for the common man to start a business -- just trying opening a restaurant or a small retail store today. In the past you could open either with very little income compared to what you need to pay today just to get an occupancy permit."
I'm sure that the prevailing economic conditions in the modern market, which require massive amounts of initial capital investment to set up a business that can keep costs low enough to price out smaller competitors, has nothing to do with this.
"Housing prices have been put out of reach of millions by government currency inflation (which is the sole cause of housing and consumer price increases in the past 20-30 years). "
This is either a hilarious interpretation of the data, or an unfounded assumption, seeing as homeownership has continued to rise steadily through the latter half of the 20th century. Perhaps the rise in housing costs is the result of a middle class demanding larger and better-equipped homes, thus insuring that there is less profit incentive to create low-income housing. In fact, this would jibe with the fact that the rising cost of new homes is largely a factor of building styles and rising material costs.
"On top of this, the housing and rental market is made more expensive by ridiculous property tax increases which make it near impossible for the poor, elderly and uneducated to live near opportunities to make good money."
Because if there's one thing keeping the poor, uneducated, and elderly from making money it's property taxes. Lack of access to education has nothing to do with it, so we should slash property taxes in order to defund education, because that'll really help all those poor and uneducated. Oh, and BTW, since when are the elderly supposed to be "making money?" I always thought that went against the concept of "retirement."
"Medicine was available to almost every poor person until the HMO Act of 1974, which created a trap for those without insurance. "
OK, now you're just talking out of your ass.
"Up until the early 70s doctors made housecalls and charged very little"
And provided nowhere near the level of healing ability as a modern doctor, and certainly did not provide this service to everyone.
"once insurance was nearly mandated by government (either as a required benefit or used to circumvent tax laws for employers), the price of medicine skyrocketed.
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:2)
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:1)
They are on benefits. You think a company would pay that if it was ruling? Why bother? It would just lose them profits. Oh but I guess they can vote against them. Wait nooo because theyve no money to do that with. Are you seeing the gaping flaws here yet? There are plenty more.
This is of course ignoring the fact that your already in one of the most capitalist heavy countries in the world. If you dont think its working now why on Earth would you want
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:2)
One of these days I gotta finish that book. I like the story but her narrative style is tiresome and overlong. She could have used a good editor.
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:1)
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:2)
In a capitalist democracy, money is the tool by which control, suppression and coercion, are maintained and paid for.
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:2, Insightful)
~ Wizardry Dragon
Re:You seem to forget... (Score:2)
Because it leads to laws and regulations, and, horror of horrors, taxes
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:2)
I play videogames. I vote.
That scares the hell out of me, too. I mean, what kind of bubble do you live in that makes video games the focal point of your political activity?
Re:This won't make a difference (Score:2)
This stuff really happens. Do not underestimate how much lesbian feminists who lack the brains for scientific thought hate geeks and enjoy power tripping over them. The top psychologists went into th
Political activism for shut-ins? (Score:4, Interesting)
Bad Idea. (Score:1, Insightful)
Already been done (Score:2)
Primary Critics of X... (Score:2)
Imagine Jack Valente with an MP3 player. That'd make him spin in his grave. Oops, he's not dead, I know, but a guy can hope.
Re:Primary Critics of X... (Score:2)
Why would the former president of the MPAA [wikipedia.org] care about pirated or legal MP3s? As long as you're not watching a pirated copy of Brokeback Mountain on your video iPod, he wouldn't give a fuck.
Now, Imagine Hilary Rosen [wikipedia.org] with an MP3 player.
LK
I vote for... (Score:2)
Giblets (Score:2)
So instead of fragging somebody with a rocket launcher I'm expressing myself by painting with giblets?
Not a threat to gaming (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Not a threat to gaming (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that society is just "the way things are now", and that "slippery slope" is the same as "logical fallacy".
Having said that, and I apologise if I came across as offensive, I do support clearer labelling for games and educating parents about the danger a violent game presents to a young psyche. Banning, however, has never been the solution to a
Re:Not a threat to gaming (Score:2)
Marketing and selling these games to kids is wrong, and needs to stop.
Maybe the parents should stop buying the shit for their kids in the first place.
hm... GIAA or GPAA (Score:1)
Re:hm... GIAA or GPAA (Score:2)
"Ivory Tower" gamers (Score:4, Insightful)
The primary critics of video games are the people that do not play them.
Yeah, and how many propenents of video games don't have kids? Exactly.
I know plenty of gamers who think GTA goes way over the top for something targeted at kids (ratings aside, they know their primary audience). They also think parents aren't educated enough, or are too fucking lazy, so we all end up suffering for the sake of the fuckup parents.
Gamers tend to become elitist snobs to anyone who brings up regulation of video games. That's the wrong way to affect change. Maybe this political party will smack some sense into more than a few people and realize some of these games are violence porn (How many opponents of videogame regulation would buy their kid a Hustler? Raise your hands high! Thought so.)
Re:"Ivory Tower" gamers (Score:2, Flamebait)
Uh, all the ones I know. What is your point?
>>I know plenty of gamers who think GTA goes way over the top for something targeted at kids
GTA is not marketed at kids. Anyone who thinks that is a moron.
Re:"Ivory Tower" gamers (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes they do, and it isn't children.
http://www.theesa.com/facts/gamer_data.php [theesa.com]
"Who Purchases Computer and Video Games?
Ninety-five percent of people who make the actual purchase of computer games and 84% of people who make the actual purchase of video games are 18 years of age or older. The average age of the game buyer is 37 years old. "
These games are marketed towards adults, purchased by adults and played by adults.
The 'what about the children' is a red herr
Re:"Ivory Tower" gamers (Score:2)
I also read Marcinko books and wouldn't read a Tom Clancy novel to a child either.
Video games, like books, are entertainment. Like books, some appeal to children and shouldn't be accessible to them without parental supervision. Like books, they are often a solo activity.
So, murder mystery
Re:"Ivory Tower" gamers (Score:2)
Wait, soon they'll say that because the cover is done in a cartoon style, this means it's intended for kids, a la Joe Camel...
Re:"Ivory Tower" gamers (Score:2)
Heh heh heh. Oh boy. It's in a cartoon style, so it's intended for kids. Rrrrriiiggghht.
Anyone tries that'n, let me know. Now, if you'll excuse me...
$ mplayer /home/media/video/anime/hentai/la blue girl 1.avi
As Body Drop would say, "That ain't gonna work!" (Score:1)
The difference between comics and games history (Score:5, Insightful)
The Escapist recently had an article on this here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/35/17 [escapistmagazine.com].
Back then, comic book stores rolled over. Perhaps out of fear, perhaps out of patriotism - after all, their government leaders wouldn't do the wrong thing, right? It took comics decades to crawl out of that "kids only" hole - and now, the industry is dominated by Japanese manga which didn't have such restrictions (all jokes about tentacle hentai and schoolgirl panties aside).
This time, I think the game industry "gets it", and luckily, they're forming a group to handle it. If done right, it can be something like the recent Anti-Broadcast Flag that I participated in last year. Gamers, when certain bills are under debate, can be organized en masse to send personal phone calls, emails, and letters to their local congresspeople with the same message: we support protecting children, but not at the expense of giving up 1st Amendment freedoms. Laws saying selling Mature games to minors is fine - laws saying no mature games at all or no mature games allowed in stores is not.
This would be the most powerful way to combat some of these silly laws. Some of them are well meaning - people upset and confused at a new medium that is "untraditional", and all they see is the bad and not the good. Others, I believe, are using the issue to promote their own agenda or pocketbook (and I think we know who I'm talking about here). By making massive communication movements in the media and politics when pressure is needed, politicians will have to really think about what they're doing, and if it's worth the political effort when there are other more important issues to deal with. (Such as, I don't know, hunger, homelessness, medical coverage, retirement issues, security, campaign finance reform - oh, wait, nevermind, the latter is a pipe dream.)
This organization has a lot of potential, and it's a group that I believe we should all support. It might not make a lot of difference in the short run - laws under consideration will go on. But we can either do what many in the comic book industry did - go down without a fight, or we can drag political leaders kicking and screaming into the modern age while exercising some discipline of our own and behaving like adults.
Of course, this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong. Either way, I've signed up, and I'm ready to pick up the phone and put in some dollars when needed.
Re:The difference between comics and games history (Score:2)
Re:The difference between comics and games history (Score:2)
There weren't any comic book stores in the forties and fifties.
Comics were distributed through neighborhood news outlets, the grocery, the drug store. The same places your grandad went shopping for Look magazine and the Saturday Evening Post.
In the city, there was the cigar store, which would be raided every now and again to clean out the hard-core porn being sold out of the back room.
The crime and horror comics of the fifties were sold off the same racks as Arc
Duh (Score:2)
Isn't that kind of a truism? I hear that those who criticize gambling also abstrain from gambling and that those who criticize Steven Spielberg movies... oh, they went anyway since everyone else was.
Gamer platform? (Score:5, Funny)
I can see it now: The GNP (Gamers National Party) Platform of 2008:
* 9r0 1s7 4/\/\d/\/\3n7!!! (1ee7 (c)4u(c)u$!)
* Pro 2nd Amendment/Anti gun control (Shooters caucus)
* Pro free market economy (Civilization caucus)
* Pro death penalty (Undead caucus)
* Pro NASA (Orion caucus)
Re:Gamer platform? (Score:2)
You joke, and its damn funny, but if I saw that on a form, you're damn right I'd check the box. Just for the sheer audacity of it, you gotta reward that.
Core Demographics (Score:2)
Nice... er... truism (Score:3, Insightful)
Aside from the we-all-know-what-they-mean, this is actually a bit ambiguous. If they mean critics of certain games, then gamers definitely count, so that can't be right. If they mean critics of games as a whole, then... wouldn't it go without saying that those who don't like it won't do it?
Re:Nice... er... truism (Score:2)
The same deal goes with video games, and it's actu
Won't work. (Score:2)
Though It will be cool to see the first candidate to make an appearance in WOW. Any guess as to who it might be?
We ALL need to do this (Score:2)
Religious fanatics will stop porn and allegedly violent games, and big biz has the power to flood the US market with cheap labor by greasing congress. This is just the way it works: special interest A will clobber special interest B if B does nothing because general voters don't care enough either way about the issues that matter to A an
Voting Bloc? (Score:3, Interesting)
But you know, whatever! Big mean government says violent games are bad! Gamer mad! Gamer smash!
Re:Voting Bloc? (Score:2)
Much has been made recently of the fact that the average age of gamers is increasing as the 80's era gamers are hitting hitting their 30's.
These people can vote.
How will this work? (Score:3, Funny)
'Rad'.
Re:How will this work? (Score:2)
ESA??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Captain Obvious (Score:2)
Re:Captain Obvious (Score:5, Informative)
Playing a game doesn't.
Re:Captain Obvious (Score:1)
Re:Captain Obvious (Score:1)
Playing a game doesn't.
Not directly, no. But what you do affects the person you become. It's funny how people endorse that idea when it squares with what they want to believe ("Using Linux will make you a better person" [to pick an outlandish example) but not when it goes against a conclusion they'd like to hold. But unless we want to believe that all things have only positive effects (and scanning headlines should take care of that
Re:Captain Obvious (Score:2)
How does it affect the person you become? See I have played games all my life - since I was 14 my dad purchased an Apple IIe. This was back in the 70's. I've played many, many hours per week. Some have called me an "addict", including my wife - who loathes video games.
Nonetheless I managed to graduate from medical school, father two wonderful teenagers, have been happily married for 16 years and do r
Re:Captain Obvious (Score:1)
1. Although I agree with your post in principle, games do actually affect other people thats kind of there whole point. Just as the other examples, music, novels, movies. Its just that they dont affect people in an adverse way.
2. I think the original post was just a joke based on the obvious nature of the sentence. Kind of like saying. 'The main people who hate fridge magnets are the people who really hate fridge magnets.' Rather than a Jack Thompson politial broadcast.
Re:most gamers are younger, young people don't vot (Score:2, Funny)
Re:most gamers are younger, young people don't vot (Score:2)
Speak for yourself. I'm a gamer since 1981, and I'm 30 now.
Re:So now... (Score:1)
Re:So now... (Score:5, Insightful)
"So now slapping on a bunch of colours onto something is art?" - painting
"So now saying a buncha words is art?" - poetry
"So now being able to form sentences for a few hundred pages is art?" - books
Re:So now... (Score:3, Interesting)
Most people consider Shakespearean or Dickensian portrayals of murder and warfare (which were written for the enjoyment of the unwashed masses, no less) to be art, so why is it so different when essentially the same story is told through modern media?
Of course, the average game may not be good art, but then again, neither is the average novel, song, movie, play, or painting.
Re:So now... (Score:2)
Re:Idiocy (Score:2)
Good luck. See the little sign at the movie theatre that says "Management reserves the right to refuse admission."?
Re:Yo! It's... (Score:2)
Re:Yo! It's... (Score:2)
By the way, you're the first person I ever recall screwing up that "commonly overlooked" idiom. First and only. In over three decades. You tell me, how common is that?
Now, if you want my opinion on the content of your original post and what's going on: I
think you're confused. I think you misu