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British Rail's Flying Saucer 155

Dynamoo writes "The Register is carrying a story about a patent for a fusion powered spacecraft filed by British Rail in the 1970s. While the concept may seem silly for a public railway, it seems that the British Rail Research Division employed a large number of aircraft engineers who presumably had some spare time between projects such as the Advanced Passenger Train."
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British Rail's Flying Saucer

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  • Power Source (Score:4, Informative)

    by Billosaur ( 927319 ) * <<wgrother> <at> <optonline.net>> on Monday March 13, 2006 @11:59AM (#14907949) Journal
    British Rail patented a design for a flying saucer powered by thermonuclear fusion back in 1973. The public transport body submitted Charles Osmond Frederick's maverick contraption, the Guardian reports.

    The fact that sustainable fusion hasto this day eluded scientists was no deterrent to such a ferociously inventive mind. Frederick explains how to dodge the scientific watershed: "The thermonuclear fusion will take place in a series of pulses, each pulse being triggered by laser energy, and/or energetic particles reflected from a previous pulse. The system will be arranged so that the fusion process will decay after each pulse so that the stability of the system is maintained."

    And according to a related report, the fusion required to run the thing may not be ready anytime soon [theregister.co.uk]

  • Re:British Rail (Score:2, Informative)

    by DarthChris ( 960471 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @12:06PM (#14908013)
    British Rail don't exist, and haven't existed for years. The trains were privatised even before New Labour came in, and it's the shitty private companies who can't turn up on time.
    My parents tell me that BR were normally pretty punctual, even if the trains weren't so great to look at.
  • by jeremyp ( 130771 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @12:07PM (#14908022) Homepage Journal
    BR abandoned the APT because they couldn't make it work reliably. It kept breaking down.

    The 125 was actually a simultaneous project which got into service before the APT was abandoned.
  • by johneee ( 626549 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @12:12PM (#14908063)
    I can't comment on anything else in your post, but Bombardier is actually a Canadian [bombardier.com] company. They do make lots of choo-choos though.
  • Re:Anorak Alert! (Score:3, Informative)

    by FinestLittleSpace ( 719663 ) * on Monday March 13, 2006 @12:39PM (#14908338)
    Also, the 225 referred to kmph, not mph like the 125. Good marketing there....
  • Re:Other patents... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Zarhan ( 415465 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @12:44PM (#14908387)
    What's more interesting is a system I saw years ago that was supposed to recognize whether a cat was carrying something in its mouth (like a mouse) by looking at its profile. No more "presents" left for you to step on when you get out of bed in the morning.

    You mean Flo control [quantumpicture.com] is patented? (See picture on page 2, ie. click next)
  • by ajs318 ( 655362 ) <sd_resp2@earthsh ... .co.uk minus bsd> on Monday March 13, 2006 @12:45PM (#14908390)
    That's hardly surprising in a metropolitan area. Whenever one train has to be re-platformed, the train that was going to use the platform that train is now using also has to be re-platformed, and so on, until there is a big enough time window to get one train out of the way before the xext comes in.

    It's worse in the South because there are two electrification systems in use; the old Southern Electric, third-rail DC system and the modern, overhead AC system. Not all vehicles are dual-powered, and neither are all tracks, so re-platforming options are limited. Of course, since {as every Londoner knows} there is no electricity in the North of England, this will not be a problem in Leeds :)
  • Re:British Rail (Score:3, Informative)

    by BovineSpirit ( 247170 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @02:31PM (#14909361) Homepage
    Yawn, no it's a completely different one. British Rail was the nationalised company that was given no money to keep our railways going. Thatcher made them reduce costs by 30%, and, when they were successful made them do it again. The trains were still very reliable.
          The railways were privatised in the early 90s, leading to vast increases in fares, delays and cancellations. Inexperienced managers were brought in to replace the old BR staff and they wasted alarming amounts of money buying crap. Railtrack gave up on track maintainence until several fatel accidents. They then went to parliment begging for money to do what they were supposed to have done anyway. Rather then closing one lane at a time they used 'blockades' in which whole sections of track are closed at once, leading to mass cancellations and severe inconvienience for passengers.
          Oh yes, and tax-payer subsides have more than doubled since privatisation. The private companies can't even sort out the signalling at Waterloo, let alone think about UFOs.
  • Sounds familiar (Score:2, Informative)

    by alanw ( 1822 ) * <alan@wylie.me.uk> on Monday March 13, 2006 @02:38PM (#14909434) Homepage
    I thought I'd read about this before - a long time ago. A quick google for "British Rail" "Flying Saucer" turns up several references, including this New Scientist [newscientist.com] article from 26 July 1997.

    There are other possible earlier ones as well.

  • by MROD ( 101561 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @03:26PM (#14909905) Homepage
    Actually...

    The APT-E was the experimental gas turbine powered test train built in 1973/4. At the same time the prototype HST (Intercity 125 as it became) with the prototype (253001) running by 1975, the production versions (class 253 (great western) and the slightly more powerful class 254 (east coast mainline) going into service in 1977 as a stop-gap as the APT would take a while to come into production.

    The HST vehicles (and the Mark 3 coaches) used technology developed in the APT project, such as high speed bogies, wheel design and brakes, the designs for which were licensed throughout the world.

    In 1979/80 the APT-P vehicles were produced. These were the prototype technology test/demonstration machines and were electricly powered.

    Due to the new Conservative government wanting to see a return on the money already spent on the APT project (which was in total less than 1Km of french TGV track) a political decision was made to force the prototypes into regular service before they were ready.

    The inaugural journey was a comedy of errors. Firstly, it was known that the tilt system was not fully debugged and test had shown that some people became "air sick." So, the PR office plied a load of Fleet Street journalists with alcohol, piled them onto the train along with some minor celebrities and then gave them more drink.

    Strangely enough the journos go sick and wrote about it. One car had a tilt failure half way through the journey and properly rotated upright and locked itself there. Strangely, the guard on the train agreed to a certain minor celebrity to stop the train at Carlisle to get off. Because of this the train lost its high-speed slot on the track and arrived late, which pleased the journos even more.. Fleet Street loves stamping on anything new and painting it in the blackest terms.

    So, a PR disaster.

    After being withdrawn from front-line service (for which the protoypes were never designed) they were used on and off on the West Coast Mainline until 1985, by which time all the bugs had been sorted out, they were reliable and it had been determined that the reason for the "air sickness" was due to the tilting being too good and not giving the brain enough hints that the person was going around the corner.

    One set of the APT-Ps has been bought by a private buyer and the last I heard was sitting at Crewe.

    The Pendolino trains are actually a decendant of a separate tilting train projetc in Italy, which initially used passive tilting. The technology and information gathered during the APT project was used by the italians after the APT project closed.

    It is an interesting point that the West Coast Mainline had been given the green light for 155mph running for the APT in the early 80's using the existing lines and signalling. Yet in the late 90's it was stated by the railway authority that the new pendolino trains could only run on that line at 125mph until new signalling was designed, built and installed.
  • Re:British Rail (Score:4, Informative)

    by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Monday March 13, 2006 @03:31PM (#14909967) Journal
    Every railway suffers from leaves on the line; in the BR case it was more of a PR problem (they told the truth, where other railway companies may have just said 'operational problems' or some other nondescript reason) and the dolts who didn't understand laughed.

    The problem is this. Wet leaves can accumulate during heavy leaf falls. When a train rolls over these, it turns the leaves into an incredibly good lubricant. The moment the driver applies the brakes, hundreds of wheels all lock up. This leaf lube isn't all that good though - quickly wearing off, and when it does, metal to metal contact with the rail head is restored. Except now the wheels are stopped even though the train is still going. The friction burns a flat spot in the wheel - and the rolling stock has to be immediately taken out of service to have the wheel repaired.

    BR (or more accurately, Network SouthEast) made a similar gaffe when they told the truth about the snow (the infamous 'wrong kind of snow'). British snow is typically heavy and wet. This snow was like the finest powder in Utah which people love to ski on. It got sucked into traction motors, shorting them out. If they had just lied and said the track was blocked by snow, everyone would have forgotten about it by now.
  • by nukenerd ( 172703 ) on Monday March 13, 2006 @04:33PM (#14910456)
    The APT could not tilt into the path of another train. Its whole tilt motion envelope fell within the envelope of a non-tilting train; or in other words, within the loading gauge. True, if the tilt failed the train would have to slow to the speed of a non-tilting train, not for any technical reason but for passenger comfort or so as not to alarm the passengers. This would not be a huge problem - the tilt system would be pretty reliable and even if it did fail the train would only need to slow on the sharper curves.

    As for causing sea-sickness, this depends on the tilting algorithm. When the APT came out little was known about passenger response and the APT was given a very simple algorithm that aimed for zero lateral g in the passenger saloon. Later knowledge, particularly aquired by FIAT with their Penulino development, made great improvements such as leaving a proportion of the centrifugal force uncorrected by tilt, and also better handling of the transitions. Given any programmable tilt control system (such as the APT had) such tuning could have been applied retrospectively.

    As it was, the APT on its first publicity run made a bunch of press hack vomit their whisky-and-soda, leading to the bad press that caused the myth that the APT was some kind of total disaster, a myth that Mrs Thatcher seized upon as an excuse to can the project, and a myth which quite a few Slashdotters seem to have bought too.
  • Re:British Rail (Score:3, Informative)

    by Alioth ( 221270 ) <no@spam> on Monday March 13, 2006 @07:02PM (#14911676) Journal
    When 'leaves on the line' was a frequent issue (up into the early 1990s) most of the rolling stock and traction had been built in the 50s/60s when anti skid brakes hadn't been invented. It's only the really new stock that has anti-skid. There's still a lot of old rolling stock out there, though. Last time I was in the south of England (probably about 2 years ago), the recently deceased Connex was still running old EMUs which were built in the mid 50s.

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