The New Face of Script Kiddiez 230
An anonymous reader writes "Washingtonpost.com's Security Fix blog has an interesting post profiling the activities of a kid named Witlog who controls a botnet of roughly 30,000 hacked Windows PCs. Even after the authorities manage to shut down the network Witlog uses to control his bots, he pops up somewhere else. From the article: 'Witlog may in fact be the product of a new generation of script kiddiez; the chief distinguishing feature of this generation being that instead of using Web site flaws to deface as many Web sites as possible, these guys are breaking into thousands of home and work PCs and taking them for a virtual joyride, often times all the way to the bank.'"
New Face (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:New Face (Score:5, Insightful)
And they certainly don't deserve recognition...neither would a defacer[political or not]. I swear, "hackers" or "crackers" whatever you may prefer to call them, used to have more taste, pre-2000. Even the defacements used to carry more meaning...now it just seems like IRC channel wars, just at a new level...IRC server wars. Pretty dumb when it gets down to it.
Re:New Face (Score:5, Informative)
Exactly. While the rootkits, virus kits, worm kits, and other attack examples have been out there since the early DARPA days, most people using them were exploring for security holes to exploit. Now we've got people who just use that work to take over unpatched or obsolete machines.
They aren't hackers. They can't even claim to be crackers. They run a kit with as little thought to how it works as an Excel user thinks about the math and programming behind the interface. It's just a tool to them.
What's really annoying is their persistent attempts to break a patched/maintained environment wastes bandwidth that has better uses.
What's criminal is that their traffic interference can prevent you from using your connection to work or relax as you see fit. Legally, it should be comparable to theft of resources or vandalism preventing the use of resources. Following from that could be additional charges depending on the intended use of the victim's machines.
Re:New Face (Score:3, Funny)
I totally agree. Why back in our day we had WRITE our own exploits, some people just older than me had to WRITE their own compiler to compile their own hand written 'sploits, and that's only if they finished their other chores first. It was uphill both ways.
The only real crime here is that cr
Re:New Face (Score:3, Funny)
Re:New Face (Score:4, Funny)
Re:New Face (Score:3, Interesting)
Right.. hence the word "script" in "script kiddies." They don't program, they just use. That's nothing new. And really, it's no different than anything else. You don't need 100 people to invent the wheel. You share libraries without caring how they work as long as they do what you want them to do. Anyway, nobody's giving this kid a medal, they're just showing an example of how easy it is for anyone to do.
Legally, i
Re:New Face (Score:2, Informative)
For non-US people, or US people that never had history class, Al Capone was a famous bootlegger (someone that smuggled alcohol into the US) during prohibition (where alcohol was illegal). The FBI tried for a long time to catch him at it, but he always wiggled out. Finally they got him on tax evasion charges.
Re:New Face (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably because the idiot is in Estonia, or some other place where the laws of the U.S. are not particularly respected. If all he's doing is installing adware on American PCs, you don't honestly think the local police are going to give a sh!t, do you?
Actually, they probably would. They'd probably want a 25% cut.
Re:New Face (Score:5, Funny)
I don't even know where to begin with a comment like that... : /
Re:New Face (Score:3, Informative)
Re:New Face (Score:3, Insightful)
However, if someone is breaking into American computers from his mom's basement in Estonia, and computer cracking is not a crime in Estonia (I'm sure it is), then the point of Estonia's extradition treaty with the United States is moot as the script kiddie has not broken the law.
For instance, the legal drinking age here in Ontario, Canada is 19.
Re:New Face (Score:3, Insightful)
This implies that there is someplace where the laws of the U.S. are particularly respected... including the U.S.
If George W doesn't have to follow the law, why should I???
Sometimes They Do (Score:2)
Re:New Face (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:New Face (Score:4, Insightful)
Unfortunately, no one wants to invest the token amount of time it takes to investigate this, so it doesn't happen. You can't possibly believe that a 15-year-old botnet-asswipe, sitting at home on mom and dad's computer, could possibly outwit a highly paid and experienced network or systems analyst. They, as was mentioned in an earlier post, simply use the tool without any comprehension of how it operates....keep digging, and you'll find them...shit always ends up at the bottom.
New genre of script kiddie (Score:5, Funny)
Like Script Daddiez.
Re:New Face (Score:5, Interesting)
Given the text of the interview in the article, I'm guessing that he is not in this country, or at the very least that he's a non-native speaker.
My logic: There is a line where the reporter is interviewing the 'kid'. He says the following:
Aside from the obvious grammatical issues, the last word of the sentence is indicative of the fact that he may be a non-native speaker of English. A native speaker would likely use the word "that" instead of "this" when using the phrase "something like" in conjunction with an action taken in the past.
There's also the fact that he said "I've read" rather than "I read". While the former is not incorrect (using the past participle, 'have'), a native speaker is more likely to use the simple past ("I read" rather than "I have read"). This is especially true of a younger native speaker.
While it's obviously difficult to analyze the grammar of a script kiddy, if I had to bet I would say that he is a non-native speaker. Could easily be German, or east european given the language patterns.
Re:New Face (Score:2)
So you're saying this guy's from Korea?
In Soviet Korea, old people email YOU!
In Korea, (Score:2, Funny)
Re:New Face (Score:2, Interesting)
In fact, I have noticed--and "experts" have noted--that "delayed adulthood" (a.k.a. "arrested development," "extended adolescence" [spiked-online.com]) has become common. My 28-years-old-going-on-16 son is a good example.
I can see the sophistication of such "Skript kiddie" operations as indicating some "kid" in his late-20s or early-30s, still living at home, and with the moral compass of your common housecat.
Could be helpful (Score:5, Funny)
Great! Maybe he can reconcile my account balance while he's there.
Re:Could be helpful (Score:2)
When he's done the balance will be zero. C'mon, you don't need Quickbooks to be able to reconcile that yourself.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
lame (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:lame (Score:2)
Ha this statement still holds true!
Re:lame (Score:2)
Lame maybe, but profitable (Score:2)
'New Face'? (Score:3, Insightful)
Better Toys (Score:5, Insightful)
Just stopping kids is a losing battle. The only way to win is to substitute something else into their idle hands. This has been proven over and again, most obviously with "Little League" which replaced gangs of window breakers with happy campers.
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
How low can we set the bar? (Score:5, Insightful)
The only reason this guy is having any success at this is because of the default security settings on Windows.
No, this isn't an anti-Microsoft rant. But the fact is that without those open ports, his worm wouldn't be spreading. You cannot depend upon the end-users to correctly patch or firewall their systems.
All it would take to stop this guy is for the next version of Windows to ship without any open ports by default. Ubuntu already does this, Apple already does this.
Having a software firewall on the machine is a distant 2nd place option. If there is a flaw in the firewall software, he'll have the same opportunity he has now.
Re:Better Toys (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Better Toys (Score:3, Insightful)
Meet one or two of them. Most of them do not write this software, and do not know how to either.
Re:Better Toys (Score:5, Interesting)
They don't have to be hackers to cause harm. All they're doing is playing with toys. That's why less harmful toys in wider distribution will dilute the harm.
Re:Better Toys (Score:5, Interesting)
I can name at least 3 of my friends from when I was 14 chatting on IRC who are off getting their PhDs now (and you can add me to that number in the Fall).
The kids who wanted to download "bitchslap" and knock a computer or two offline did that and didn't do anything more interesting than that. They ran into #2600 and barked at all of the people in there "Am I 1337 now!?!" and told all of their friends how hardcore they were.
All of that aside, most of the serious P2P research is simply outside of the reach of your standard issue coder, let alone some script kiddie who doesn't know what he's doing. Perhaps there's some simple, elegant technique out there that people haven't exploited yet. Heck, I have my own simple elegant technique that I think that everyone missed. The difference is that I'm writing a paper about it, not sitting in some IRC channel telling people how 1337 my misguided flood protocol is.
And, also, exactly, they don't have to be hackers to cause harm. They can be script kiddies and be plenty destructive. A script kiddie is called a script kiddie because he doesn't have any 1337 sk1llz though, not because he's trying to change the world. I wanted to learn about computers once too. You know what I did? I programmed.
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
Even if it di
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
It's not like there's a lack of toys out there if you're willing to look a little... Of course, getting that initial spark going can be a little more difficult.
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
The "Little League" has always co-existed with juvenille detention centers. The places where your toys get taken away. Jail, in plain English.
Maybe the Geek ought to be spending a little more time introducing his juniors to some uncomfortable truths about the real world.
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
Kids are different from adults because it's not too late for most of them to change. Teaching them with toys rather than threatening them with jail is a lot more productive way to make better citizens. Centuries of prioritizing jail hasn't do
Re:Better Toys (Score:2)
Lucky Bastards (Score:5, Insightful)
And what kind of name is witlog? It's like cunningpoop, or something.
Re:Lucky Bastards (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Lucky Bastards (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Lucky Bastards (Score:2)
Touché.
Re:Lucky Bastards (Score:5, Funny)
I guess he doesn't want people to think he's a dumbshit.
(Sorry, but you all know it had to be said!)
the only feature (Score:5, Funny)
* Bruised and bloodied from the clue by four that's been applied; or
* mouth wide open screaming as his cell mate takes a new "wife."
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
In the future (Score:2)
Why shouldn't kids who damage thousands of computers be subject to the sa
Re:In the future (Score:2)
Why shouldn't kids who damage thousands of computers be subject to the same penalties as the kids who burned down those churches recently?
Well, in the case of arson there is a serious threat to the lives of many people. Maybe someone was sleeping upstairs at one church. Maybe the fire will spread to neighboring buildings or trees and kill someone. In this way I think arson is somewhat more serious. Aside from that, however, I don't think I ever advocated that the kids who set those fires should be serio
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
As it stands, the punishment for committing any type of 'cybercrime' these days is a joke. You get off with a slap on the wrist in terms of fines (since theres no real way to calculate how much damage you've done, a good lawyer can shrink it down to the thousands) and MAYBE some jail time (again, no real way to calculate.) Hell you get jackasses who hack into multi-billion dollar companies, get cause and 'punished' for like 6 months and then are rehired upon release by the same co
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
What is your point? Do you think corporal punishment and rape is an appropriate punishment for a non-violent crime or not? Do you approve of this part of our culture or not? How does pointing out other atrocities that were and are being committed in any way mitigate someone here and now advocating and applauding rape?
Re:the only feature (Score:5, Insightful)
"Do you think corporal punishment and rape is an appropriate punishment for a non-violent crime or not?"
I don't see anything wrong with corporal punishment that doesn't have a long-term effect. For a teenager, a mild beating that leaves him bruised is almost certainly LESS damaging than jail-time. Note that this stops a good bit short of maiming, flogging, et cetera. It used to be that parents would do this, but it's becoming rare now, especially in Europe and more Leftist US states.
I don't like the fact that rape is used as a deterrent. That's basically the prison system finding a way around the "cruel and unusual punishment" provision by turning a blind eye. It's also a good way to drive someone absolutely insane so that they turn to more brutal crimes themselves.
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
You make it sound like the prison system advocates for rape of inmates as punishment. I'm pretty positive that it's not in the policy guidelines.*
*I'm not counting Abu-Ghraib.
Re:the only feature (Score:4, Insightful)
What would you propose we do with him then? Allowing him to continue is a very bad option, possibly the worst of all available, and currently the accepted practice in the U.S. is incarceration.
While jail time is a valid option it should be jail time minus sexual assault. This may not be the reality in all cases, but rape and physical abuse should not be an accepted part of prison and anyone who accepts it as normal, or lauds it sickens me and just makes the problem worse. For a wholly non-violent offense like this, perhaps a long probation, confiscation of funds, and a few years of regular community service would be more appropriate.
I get the feeling from reading the posts here that almost everyone is interested in revenge against people who spam or run botnets or perform DoS attacks, and no one is interested in either rehabilitation or justice. Those advocating corporeal punishment, rape, death, and eternal damnation have no sense of a punishment fitting the scale of a crime and likely have no idea what it is like to truly suffer physical and mental pain. Gee a bunch of relatively wealthy computer geeks from the first world, what a surprise.
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
I don't think that you'll find any court including sodomy as part of the sentencing. It's just a fact of life in U.S. prisons, much like the fact that he's going to get beat up.
No it isn't just a fact of life. It is an accepted and lauded fact of life, at least according to the parent poster. It is that acceptance and that willingness to enjoy and applaud these unethical acts that is as much a problem as the acts themselves. Slaves getting their feet cut off was a fact of life once too. It was cruel and
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
On what grounds are you making the rash assumption that I'm not familiar with the defendent's side of the U.S. justice system? I can tell you from direct personal experience that it's no fun to get caught up in it.
I said nothing about being a defendant, I said put yourself in the shoes of someone convicted, beaten, and being raped. This is how we should judge the ethics of a situation. It is the golden rule you might remember for kindergarten. I entreat you, stop regarding rape as an acceptable evil and
Re:the only feature (Score:2)
What are real solutions that will work?
There are a number of technical solutions that can help a lot. Video cameras whose records are reviewed by an impartial third party and an impartial system of review and complaint investigation are both common parts of such a solution. The real problem, however, is not in catching these crimes, it is interesting anyone in doing so. Many prison guards are sadists and people who have a strong desire to use violence and exert authority over others. Those are the kind
Will someone PLEASE educate the end user! (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Will someone PLEASE educate the end user! (Score:2)
I think you're missing some clues here. These certainly are not all "moms" computers. 40 of the machines that joined the botnet during the chat in TFA were State of Texas computers, sitting in some government office building somewhere.
Big organizations (large corporations, governments) use ActiveX in their web "apps" all the time for various software functions. Shutting off ActiveX might mean turning off their ability to fill out their time sheets, or request vacation da
Now here's an interesting idea. (Score:5, Interesting)
* Spreads itself to at least 2 other computers (for survival)
* Downloads and installs ad-aware
* Activates your windows firewall
* Downloads appropriate patches from Microsoft
* Prepares ad-aware to run on the next boot
* Deletes itself from the system
That'd be so beautiful *sniff*
If only crapware were easy to remove (Score:3, Interesting)
If only I could come up with a script to clean a machine reliably I'd save plenty of time. Just today I tried and failed to de-crapify a horribly compromised Win ME/kazaa-induced nightmare.
I spent nearly an hour with ad-aware, hijackthis, and spybot s&d before realizing best case I'd end up with a limping Win ME system.
Now it's happily running 2k, fully patched, and the ignorant user warned.
Re:If only crapware were easy to remove (Score:4, Insightful)
You really are an incurable optimist, aren't you?
Re:Now here's an interesting idea. (Score:2)
Re:Now here's an interesting idea. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Now here's an interesting idea. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Now here's an interesting idea. (Score:5, Informative)
Computer virus infects Air Canada check-in system [usatoday.com]
W32/Nachi.worm [nai.com]
Whiter hats needed. (Score:2)
That's because the white worms are more or less engineered off of the previous one. I don't want to make the comparison to the topic of this post (since I respect their endeavor), but they're basically behaving like script kiddies.
If it was properly done, the worm would automatically delete itself after x days or after receiving a ping from another white worm (with the newer worm taking over security of that netwo
Re:Whiter hats needed. (Score:2)
It did delete itself like that according to the virus detail sheet, but it can still easily overwhelm a system.
Re:Whiter hats needed. (Score:2)
According to the links provided, it would delete itself on Jan 1, 2004. My suggestion was to add another subroutine that would account for multiple worms on the same network, which was not mentioned as far as I can tell.
Re:Now here's an interesting idea. (Score:2)
Embarrassment for Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
Witlog: yes
Witlog: changed settings, and started it
Witlog: thats all
Witlog: anyone could do that
Witlog: you don't have to know many things to do a botnet like this
Why can't Microsoft push out its security fixes like this???
Cut off the head (Score:5, Insightful)
Witlog: so when i've read that article, i thought "why not to make my own"?
SecurityFix: so did you just download the source from some site and set it loose?
Witlog: yes
Witlog: changed settings, and started it
Witlog: thats all
Witlog: anyone could do that
Witlog: you don't have to know many things to do a botnet like this
This kid is not a "hacker" or "cracker" anymore than I'm a professional wrestler. He finds a script or two somewhere, configures it, and lets it go. He has no moral compass, he doesn't care about other people's property, and he seems to think this is a hoot. He sounds too much like those college boys who are accused of setting those Alabama church fires [cnn.com].
But as he says, anyone can do this. While it's nice that goups like Shadowserver.org are tracking down and shutting down these botnets, why isn't someone doing something about the supply source for these scripts? It's like leaving a loaded gun lying around -- some idiot may decide to use it, even though they don't know how. I say find the morons behind the botnet scripts and take them out. Stop wasting time on the small fry.
Re:Cut off the head (Score:5, Insightful)
It's really easy to make explosives. We can't ban the sale of ingredients. That's a slightly facile example -- there are legitimate uses for many things that could be used for malice, whilst fewer for exploit source code. However, prohibiting the availability of information about holes wouldn't improve the situation -- it'd mean more blackhats would have the information rather than people using that information to arrange protective measures.
Re:Cut off the head (Score:2)
Of course, if the person sharing it is also encouraging its misuse, there's already a law for dealing with them.
Captain of the Obviouuuus... to the rescue!! (Score:2)
D'OH, that's why the article title says "script kiddiez", not "hackers".
Re:Cut off the head (Score:2, Interesting)
Fucking editors (Score:3, Insightful)
Disclaimer: (Score:5, Insightful)
At the same time, I couldn't give a rat's ass. Leave your car unlocked, get your radio stolen, see me cry 0 tears.
Leave your house unlocked, and the fine china will walk out the front door.
Leave your computer unprotected, and your data/bandwidth will be taken.
We run OS X/Linux. Automatic security updates, 0 ports exposed, everything behind a NAT, no automatic execution of downloaded files, and nobody types in administrator password without calling me first, either because they don't know them, or they know to verify EVERYTHING with me. Did I mention that user desktops run few (no) services? CUPS, SMB, SSH. No remote or local root logins.
Everyone here understands that ANY thing they download could potentially result in all their data being messed up. Period.
The last piece of the puzzle for me would be to prevent people from "spoofing" OS X users using incorrect icons for executable mime-types. Then I'll be happy.
Why should I care?
You will care (Score:2)
I have zero sympathy for idiots who can't secure their system. If they could only harm themselves, they could just as well go down in flames. Maybe it would work as a LART on them.
But it doesn't. Those bots are supposed to be no damage to the infected machine, but instead use said machine to cause harm somewhere else. If it DID cause some damage on the infected machine, the infected person would probably care.
So his attitude is just like yours: Why sho
Re:Disclaimer: (Score:4, Insightful)
Leave your house unlocked, and the fine china will walk out the front door.
Speaking of which, that lock you have on your front door can be picked in a few seconds. Don't believe me? Tell me your address, and I'll report here what your Royal Doulton brought on eBay.
Stealing is ALWAYS WRONG, even if the valuables are unsecured.
And you've hit the core of the "problem". (Score:5, Interesting)
Some people trust the system on their computers because they don't know any better. That doesn't make the bad or wrong. Just "ignorant".
The only difference is that you have a physical limit to the houses you can break into. There is no such limit on computers.
People have a much easier time understanding physical security because they can see it. They know when they've been robbed. They know when the neighbors are robbed.
With a computer, they probably won't know, or even really care. Unless they lose money from their accounts.
And fighting against ignorance is a long and difficult task. There are millions of individuals out there and each one has to be correctly educated.
Personally, I'd recommend focusing on an easier target ("easier" being relative here). Get Microsoft to ship the next version of Windows without any open ports by default. Yeah, I know what you're going to say. But it's more likely to happen than educating the millions of individual users out there.
Re:Disclaimer: (Score:2)
If someone walks through a bad area of town wearing jewelry in the middle of the night and gets mugged, I'll still think the criminal should be captured and convicted, but I won't shed any tears for the victim. If another person walked through the same area of town at 7 PM showing nothing valuable, and got mugged, I'd be m
Re:Disclaimer: (Score:2)
Re:Disclaimer: (Score:2)
I'm glad to see cynicism alive and well. So criminals can do no wrong, because it is WE who have failed to protect ourselves? I have, in fact, left my car unlocked and had my radio stolen from it. The idiot who did it is a punk who will receive a particularly bad beating if I ever find him. Could I have prevented the theft? Yes. Was I AT FAULT? No.
Why should you care? I don't know... Maybe
Last line of the article (Score:4, Funny)
Ah, the irony...
Puts the Size vs. ease in perspective (Score:2)
Spammers discussing arrests on specialham today (Score:5, Interesting)
Adam Vitale aka Batch1 arrested by Secret Service
M.
Saw your other post too.. U r right, whoever isn't mailing compliant these days and is promoting illegal shit like pharm or stocks on top of it, is just asking for the feds to bust through their door...
Hamster
I am not saying this guy didnt scam tons of people which is not right however if swank does not like you for whatever reason he will post you info on his anti friends websites so be very very carefull when dealing with swank and make sure your personal info is kept to you.. Personal revenge is the key to try and recover money that was scammed not whoring shit out to the anti's....
P.S. swank you know I dont like fake people.. You guys get a kick of this one http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/evidence.lasso?roks
Look half way down the message and you will see this
"Swank"(Chris Brown) and "Batch1"(Adam Vitale) are in a tiff over a spam deal gone bad, and are in a flame-war on spamforum.biz.
Swank has repeatedly posted "Batch1's contact info that was used in their spam dealings with each other.
I think this is what I have been explaining all along about how swank has ties to the antis and posts peoples info if he doesnt like them and if you notice reading these articals the anti's really never say anything bad about swank HMMMM I wonder if he is friends with them.. Enjoy guys.....
1200000 / recipients_per_Email = 47,000 emails sent.
hard to understand isnt it hamster
also if you've paid any attention to the forum, the informant (sean dunaway) is already notified and you've started a double thread because of your ignorance
This is starting to sound like those Mafia wiretap transcripts that came out as the New York Mafia was coming unglued. Law enforcement was doing well enough that the crooks were more afraid than the good guys, and were desperately trying to figure out who was selling out.
Spamming is starting to yield to straightforward police work.
ISP Blocking (Score:4, Interesting)
However, I hate that my ISP is packet filtering for things like torrents (Rogers), one has to wonder why they fail to filter for the things that uselessly waste their network rather than the people who actually use it.
-M
Arest Some SysAdmins Too? (Score:4, Funny)
Somebody needs pull up this guy and say (Score:2, Funny)
I'm sorry, I just watched matrix today again, so all my comments tod
Hmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Not a new tool, but a new threat (Score:3, Interesting)
Today's botnets are no longer standalone tools. They are used to spread secondary attacks. That's where the new threat comes in. That's how secondary threats like trojans and viri can spread via email. Or you can use the botnet to download and distribute updates for trojans.
The possibilities are pretty much limitless. Just imagine you have a few 100 to a many 1000 computers at your hands that could be used however you like, and let your imagination run wild.
Picture, please? (Score:2)
Honey, they'll make fun of him if we name him Dick (Score:4, Funny)
Man, what were his parents thinking?!
The Media, and Script Kiddie Egos (Score:2, Insightful)
We all here know what a hacker is. We all know what a cracker is. We all know what a script kiddie is. That's what we know.
The audience of the media don't know what a hacker is, or what a cracker is. They don't know that these botnets are not hackers or even crackers. They don't know what script kiddies are. The BBC calls these dudes hackers.
We know why script kiddies do their worthless crap. They do it for the attention. They do it for their own ego. The money makes them extortionists and thus, criminals
Re:I'm confused.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:I'm confused.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Just link the punk to terrorist (Score:5, Funny)