IBM Germany Leaving Vista for Linux

UltimaGuy writes "During a presentation on IBM's involvement with Open Source, Andreas Pleschek from IBM in Stuttgart, Germany, who heads open source and Linux technical sales across North East Europe for IBM made a very interesting statement..."Andreas Pleschek also told that IBM has cancelled their contract with Microsoft as of October this year. That means that IBM will not use Windows Vista for their desktops. Beginning from July, IBM employees will begin using IBM Workplace on their new, Red Hat-based platform. Not all at once - some will keep using their present Windows versions for a while. But none will upgrade to Vista." "

HAL

[xzanthar]

If IBM is not going to move to Windows Vista, does that mean that more people will see some more of the advantages of moving to Linux?

Re:Redhat?

[bogaboga]

That's my question too! Why RedHat? SuSE, in my opinion, is better than RedHat both on the server and desktop. This is not to say it (SuSE) has no issues at all. I find that its YaST is too slow and looks ancient, not to mention the fact that it will run through all those config scripts even when no configuration is changed at all!

I think its A matter of time

[MrShaggy]

We have seen that the open-document-format take hold, and now the big iron is pulling away from MS, shortly after. Given some more time, I think that we will see this trend continue. We will see more and more with ODF, taking MS's place. Even to the point of having document converters, to go from .docto .odf. This also the time to see the movement of the massess to a linux environment. I think you will see tax-programs, et al. moving because of the ODF as well. I think that there will be a lot of script-style viri as well that will go throuigh everyones documents, ala the excell virus. The only reason that all this stuff didnt happen on larger scale, was because of the different formats. But if every Joe-Linux Distro includeed a nice easy-top-use office, and all that, it would be easier to switch. MS will become another smaller company.. It's innovations were in the 90s. Im ure that they will keep up for some time.. But this is a huge financial blow to them.

Exaggerations!

[blackmonday]

Its BS to say that "no one will upgrade" to Vista. Are you telling me that software developers will not be using Vista at all? It's a ridiculous notion for a company that develops hundreds of products for the Windows OS.

... but are they still stuck with Notes?

[supersnail]

Most IBM slavelings don't care about windows vis redhat vis suse, if only they would dump Lotus notes client everybody would be a lot happier.

Oh happy me!

[ZX81]

Great news, it's about time that someone started rolling Linux out onto the Desktop in a large enterprise.

Someone has to be the beta tester! :)

Re:Now, is that IBM Germany, or more Worldwide?

[swillden]

Either is compelling as a statement from Big Blue

IBM's CIO has already made clear that IBM's direction for its employees' desktops is Linux. Back in 2004 he released a statement that IBM would standardize on Linux desktops by the end of 2005, but it was quickly realized that was too ambitious a goal. There's just too much stuff in IBM that is tied to Windows. Still, it's widely recognized that Linux *is* the direction, worldwide, even if there isn't a specific timeline in place.

As an IBMer who uses Linux as his desktop platform for work, I read these sorts of announcements with glee because they just reinforce the message internally that new internal IT systems should not require Windows and that old ones that do require Windows need to be replaced. At present I still have to keep a Win2K VMware image around to deal with the occasional Windows-specific internal tools, and to deal with the occasional Office doc that OOo can't manage. As more groups within IBM move more aggressively away from Windows, however, I expect to need that image less and less, and someday I won't need it at all.

ObDisclaimer: I'm an IBM employee, but not a spokesperson. Everything I've said about IBM's plans and policies is just my vague memories of publicly-released information. If you find official statements that contradict mine, I'm wrong.

This applies to all users of Vista

[DFJA]

>Now look at IBM -- for them to base their business around Vista would make them *completely* under the control of Microsoft.

Note that this applies to All users of Vista, not just IBM.

Just in case you were thinking of upgrading.....

Re:news denied

[Crazy Man on Fire]

There's no way that IBM can convert to Linux until it has ported Lotus Notes. So far, employees using Linux have to run Notes using Wine. It is not very stable and some functions don't work. Until I see a Linux port, I won't believe this news.

Re:I'm not surprised

[Deathlizard]

IBM could do this now, there's a Security chip [ibm.com] in most IBM laptops, Heck, the security tech used in TCPA was Developed by IBM [zdnet.com]

It would be suicide for them to drop MS, because everyone and their uncle will just switch to Dell, and they know it. He's probably talking about what they are doing internally at IBM, which I wouldn't be surprised if it was running AIX or some in house mainframe system.

Still Just Noise

[Nom du Keyboard]

I think it's all just posturing so far. But would be a great move if it happened.

The problem for any corporation updating to Vista is that you rather have to replace most of your hardware along the way as well.

And upgrade your memory. Over on The Inquirer [theinquirer.net] they're reporting that Vista consumes 800MB of RAM while idling. This is absolutely insane to someone who first started using computers in the early 1970's. There just isn't that much stuff that an Operating System should be doing. And yes, that really is 3X XP's current requirements, the thought of which certainly is warming Intel's little heart.

Seems to me if MS wants to keep IBM in the fold they should be offering to buy them all new desktops.

Re:Ridiculous

[SCHecklerX]

Just because they have to support companys with messed-up infrastructure does not mean that they have to mess their own up as well. Why does a salesperson, or an executive secretary need to run any M$ stuff vs. IBM's workspace? Why would IBM want to run M$ DNS/DHCP/IIS/ISA for their infrastructure when they have superior products of their own?

Re:Exaggerations!

[Penguinoflight]

IBM will not be forced to upgrade to vista. Their software runs server side, and almost all of it is supported directly by IBM. There is no reason in fact for IBM to support Vista, and by doing so support Microsoft.

Think of it this way: If nobody supports vista, nobody will have to support vista! While IBM moving away from microsoft is a move in the right direction, IBM will not be able to crush Vista on their own, they will need help.

The only group that will need to support Vista is game developers. Most (with exception of Epic, iD, and a few others) have gone so far to avoid opengl, and embrace directx, they will be forced to adopt Vista just to keep things moderately insecure (Microsoft will strategically drop security support for xp soon enough).

It should be noted, there is no reason for game devs to support windows; It's far too insecure for gaming, and that wont get any better. A move to linux (and with it FreeBSD by binary compatibility) would allow devs to go with only 2-3 major platforms: OpenGL for PS3, linux/PC, and possibly nintendo revolution. Of course you would have to support directX for xbox360, but over time the extra cost to develop for microsoft would probably kill their projects.

We have come to the point where the time to move away from microsoft is NOW, but unfortunately it will take a while for vendors and developers to realize that.

Re:Making the switch

[Mr Pippin]

"rsh"? Me strongly thinks you should switch to using "ssh" for that.

Boy, doesn't this subthread prove Dell right?

[Tran]

The top level post was a clear enough question regarding business relationships, but one level down the argument already is about which distro is better.

This has just one purpose....

[malraid]

... big ass discount. It's almost like telling MS, give us a better price, or will switch. And of course MS will go as low as possible to prevent a switch. And IBM saves.

Re:Exaggerations!

[IDontAgreeWithYou]

"It should be noted, there is no reason for game devs to support windows"

You mean other than the fact that Windows is on ~90% of all PCs. I really don't think that's a market they are going to just give up on. It is obviously well worth their effort to develop games for Windows.

"It's far too insecure for gaming"

I can see an OS being too insecure for doing financial transactions or storing personal information, but gaming...

Re:Redhat?

[mytec]

So, why does it matter that it's Redhat instead of SuSE or any of the other 100+ distros? Looking at the bigger picture, it would seem GNU/Linux is advancing. Isn't that more important than the particular distro?

Re:news denied

[Chemicalscum]

There's no way that IBM can convert to Linux until it has ported Lotus Notes

They have, the new client is called Hannover named after the location of the IBM technical forum where it was first announced:

http://www.edbrill.com/ebrill/edbrill.nsf/dx/hanno ver----announcing-the-next-post-7.0-version-of-lot us-notes [edbrill.com]

It is based on the Java Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform) used by Workplace the Notes C++ code has been rewritten as an Eclipse plugin. The code can then be compiled to work on any platform that eclipse runs on; Linux, AIX , Mac OSX and Windows. I think the next Notes client release which will be based on Hannover is due later this year as Notes V7.0.

Re:This is America!

[KlomDark]

Yah, but even though I'm pretty much one of those "Speak English or Die!" types when on American soil, I still have no problem with getting content in German from a German server.

Just when I go to Mexico, I do my best to speak Spanish (It's very bad, I read Spanish much better than I speak it), and don't expect signs to be in English down there.

I just wish we got the same consideration when Mexicans come to the US. (There's a billboard a couple blocks from my house that is in 100% Spanish. Complete bullshit if you ask me. As you said "This is America!")

But, getting pissed because a German web server does not have English content is assine.

Re:Ridiculous

[Chemicalscum]

IBM is a consulting company - they provide hardware and software to support other company's infrastructure. The idea that they will convert their clients and potential clients to GNU/Linux is a kind of ridiculous in a market dominated by Windows.

IBM is aiming for platform agnostic software client, side with anything new based on the the Eclipse RCP (Rich Client Platform) using Java as with IBM Workplace. The client side applications they produce will run on Linux, AIX, Mac OSX AND Windows

Re:news denied

[forgotten_my_nick]

>There's no way that IBM can convert to Linux until it has ported Lotus Notes.

IBM Workplace has Notes client plugin. 2.6 is nice and fast too.

Re:Exaggerations!

[IDontAgreeWithYou]

You have not convinced me... at all. Most PC gamers (especially casual gamers) play on their PCs because they already own them. They dont want to spend money on a console just to play games when they already have a PC. I would bet everything I own that game manufacturers will not give up on the Windows platform any time in the near future. All of the arguments you just made were also made when XP came out. XP wasn't going to support older software etc. I don't have anything against Linux, by the way. It's just not going to be a real threat to Windows on the desktop anytime soon. In a few years, most desktop PCs will be running Vista.

Re:Why is this news?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't your subject be "WHY THIS IS NEWS!!" ???

IMO, this is a VERY smart move for IBM, and at the right time and place.

Vista is what, maybe 60+% towards the point of 'ACTUAL' release date? IBM did this before they tied themselves into what I can only imagine as millions in licensing for Vista across its employee desktops. They have apparently been working on getting Lotus Notes feasibly function on Linux w/ Eclipse, according to other sources, which I guess was a last hurdle for them internally ...

So you save money on licensing, INDEFINATELY, have a product that is viable to the market which you use for your own massive company, and all things being equal, can persuade other Large corps. to look into and possibly sell them on.

As far as expenditures in this move, it would be programming and support, but since they have gotten to this point, its already been factored.

I imagine many people who keep up on these things new it was coming, but to see it hit the mainstream and the public consumption, this WILL shake other trees in the Market, and IT sectors.

IBM seems to be a mover of late, and are constantly getting headlines (headlines have some value as that is there function). Perhaps its time to buy some stock ...

Re:Bill will have the last laugh

[metamatic]

Somehow I imagine IBM and Lenovo will work out a deal to purchase PCs without Vista. You don't think IBM buys desktop systems and laptops from Dell, do you?

Re:Still Just Noise

[jbolden]

I started using computers in the 1970s. I'm a fan of bloatware OSes, I want 70s features in my OSes. I want relational databases built in and available to all apps (like DB2 on an IBM mainframe of RDB on VMS box. I want symbionts and PFS so that I can do complex print bundling rather than just simple spooling. I want and a clear separation between operations and administration. I want built in OS level compilers that support complex data structures across apps and in my databases.

If the PC guys keep it up we may actually have a 70's OS.

Re:I'm not surprised

[Deathlizard]

All IBM sold Lenovo was the Laptop and Desktop lines. They still own a lot of the technology behind the systems, such as the TCPA technology, and you can bet it's in their Workstations and Servers because it's an added value that the man with a plaid suit and Big teeth can sell to the Pointy haired boss.

Thats why they are working with Red Hat, Because they want Red Hat to take advantage of the encryption and added security the chip brings.

Re:what about the US

[diegocgteleline.es]

Well, it's the US where they're passing laws which make DRM legal (something that forbids me from choosing freely what product I want to buy, ej: you can't listen itunes song in any music player except in a ipod) or software patents (something that allows big companies to sit and sell licenses and win money without innovating anything or even trying to do better products)

It'd seem that US is not very interested in high-tech or software anymore, they just want to make shareholders happy with short-term operations by finding methods to monetize all what they have done in the past decades, without caring about the future at all, I guess that open source isn't that appealing in those market models.

A region from Spain, Extremadura, uses open source everywhere from schools to the machines in local-government buildings. It's not a very rich region but they want a different future, unlike the US

Re:Redhat?

[Anonymous Coward]

For the record, Discussions like this happen in the Windows world as well (although it's about version) ...

1: "2003 Server?"
2: "I'ld rather install 2000 AS"
3: "AS? It'll be a database, why not 2003 DataCenter?"
and so on

Re:Redhat?

[Macka]

I find that its YaST is too slow and looks ancient, not to mention the fact that it will run through all those config scripts even when no configuration is changed at all!

It's not still doing that is it? I stopped using SuSE years ago and that was one of my main beefs. If I wanted to set something up by hand I'd have to go way out of my way to find out where all the proprietary-SuSE-only config files / scripts were stashed or risk having YaST obliterate my changes the next time I wanted to do something as mundane as change a user config. I hated YaST with a passion for that very reason. I always recommend Redhat to customers now.