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SpaceX Developing Orbital Crew Capsule 122

iamlucky13 writes "Private aerospace firm SpaceX has revealed that it has secretly been working on a crew and cargo vehicle since late 2004. Development of the capsule, named Dragon, has so far been funded by SpaceX and its partners, which includes the Canadian company that built the robotic arm for the International Space Station. Dragon would be launched atop a SpaceX Falcon 9 and dock at the ISS with assistance of the robotic arm. While SpaceX founder Elon Musk is prepared to complete development of the capsule with his own resources, SpaceX is seeking funding from NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program, which makes up to $500 million available through 2010 for private spacecraft development."
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SpaceX Developing Orbital Crew Capsule

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  • SkyRamp FFS (Score:4, Interesting)

    by LordKazan ( 558383 ) on Monday March 06, 2006 @06:23PM (#14862287) Homepage Journal
    All these "carrier plane" based ideas make me barf, but the "new" launch vehicle nasa is coming out with makes me want to barf even more.

    FFS Listen to what Von Braun said dammit

    Read: http://www.skyramp.org/ [skyramp.org]

  • its nice to see... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ganjadude ( 952775 ) on Monday March 06, 2006 @06:30PM (#14862345) Homepage
    Eventhough some of the designs are flawed... it is still nice to see a sort of Spcae Race again, I am only 20 so i missed the first Space race, however i enjoy the prospects involved with the process, as well as the idea of making something that no one else has before. Remember the wright brothers, they had a few failing designs before the suceeded. Just because we are still in the early stages of development, flaws are to be expected, designs will crash and burn. But so what? isnt this what Space exploration is about?? learning and using what you have learned to further the learning??? I for one am thrilled that the spaceX foundation is doing great things, even if it isnt perfect. was the x1 perfect when chuck Yeagur broke the sound barrier??? NO. and neither will spaceX be perfect. Shit NASA still cant even get it right all the time.
  • by kclittle ( 625128 ) on Monday March 06, 2006 @06:48PM (#14862493)
    Could someone briefly explain why liquid kerosene and liquid oxygen are one of the preferred fuels for orbital rockets, at least for the first stage? I know the F-1 engine on the Saturn V used kerosene, but I never understood why; the J-2 engines on the second stage of the Saturn V used liquid hydrogen and LOX -- why the mix?

  • by FleaPlus ( 6935 ) on Monday March 06, 2006 @06:48PM (#14862495) Journal
    Look, I love SpaceX. Elon Musk is trying to dig a big hole in the middle of the overweight aerospace industry and so far he's doing a good job of it. But this is nothing but vapourware. I hope NASA gives them a big chunk of that funding but frankly, it's a high risk proposition right now.

    Could you remind me what Boeing and Lockheed-Martin have produced so far with their contracts to build NASA's CEV? If I recall correctly, all they have so far are design documents and powerpoint slides.

    It seems to me SpaceX (which has a full-sized prototype with tested life support) is a good bit ahead of them, using just Elon Musk's out-of-pocket funding instead of NASA's.
  • Re:SkyRamp FFS (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) * <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Monday March 06, 2006 @06:54PM (#14862536) Homepage Journal
    I don't see any quotes from Von Braun. In fact, Von Braun thought the Saturn V was his baby for launches. Using accelerators to get up to speed in thick atmosphere is a very different idea that AFAIK, he never got behind.

    About the closest thing they have is on this page [skyramp.org] where they take Von Braun's consultation for a movie as serious evidence that he backed such a scheme. That's not exactly evidence.

    BTW, any site that uses Java Applets for each rollover button (something possible without Java) needs to be shot.
  • by cmowire ( 254489 ) on Monday March 06, 2006 @07:25PM (#14862741) Homepage
    I would think that it's better to say that it clearly won't meet NASA specs, because given the way NASA has worked in the past, if you have hardware ready and they won't like it, the spec will be carefully constructed to exclude your existing hardware. :)

    Oh, and many many capsules have been launched sans heatshield on the first flight. Saves the trouble of a recovery crew and not accidentally landing on somebody or something.

    Of course, seeing the Dragon makes them doing the Falcon 9 instead of the Falcon 5 make much more sense...
  • by wronkiew ( 529338 ) <wronkiew@protonmail.ch> on Monday March 06, 2006 @07:39PM (#14862852)
    SpaceX needs to prototype this stuff before they can design a real system because they have no experience making spacecraft. Boeing and Lockheed-Martin can focus on gathering requirements and doing engineering, on paper, because they know what they are doing. The only reason NASA has to go with SpaceX is because they are likely to get a better deal, but they've gotta wear the risk.

    Boeing and Lockheed-Martin know a lot less than you think. What manned space vehicles have they built in the last 30 years? I will grant that Boeing has been building space station hardware, but that's a lot different than a crew launch vehicle that has to survive ascent and reentry. Any new effort will be essentially starting from scratch. SpaceX and t/Space have been building and testing hardware, while Boeing and Lockheed-Martin have been drawing artist conceptions and writing reports, the same way they've tackled every failed STS replacement program to date. Whatever the differences in approaches, there is no contest between them. One of Boeing and Lockheed will get the $* billion CEV contract. SpaceX is working on a vehicle for ISS resupply, which is a separate, much less expensive ($500m), and better structured program.

    Also, SpaceX built their life support system in 2004, before NASA published the requirements for life support systems on vehicles carrying US government employees. That does not mean that the system they designed wouldn't work or even that it would be unsafe. It just doesn't meet NASA's new requirements.

  • Re:SkyRamp FFS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Buran ( 150348 ) on Monday March 06, 2006 @08:44PM (#14863213)
    Actually, carrier-plane based systems are very successful. Take a look at the Pegasus booster and SpaceShipOne, for instance, and the rumored Blackstar program. Plus, with a manned aircraft launching from high altitude, the hard work of getting off the pad and through the lower atmosphere has already been done, and there's less to throw away -- the launcher simply returns to its launch site just like a normal aircraft does (and in fact the Pegasus has always used modified aircraft built for other purposes rather than needing a specialized design).
  • Re:SkyRamp FFS (Score:3, Interesting)

    by isomeme ( 177414 ) <cdberry@gmail.com> on Monday March 06, 2006 @09:03PM (#14863291) Journal

    had shown they can man and supply outposts in much harsher conditions.

    And where, exactly, had the Army been maintaining outposts in conditions harsher than those of hard vaccum, 300K day/night temperature variation, unfiltered exposure to solar and cosmic radiation, and a nearly complete lack of extractable life-support volatiles in the soil?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 06, 2006 @09:06PM (#14863303)
    Why not apply Globalisation to NASA... eg:

    Let the funding go to suppliers in China, India, and other places
    where the $'s might go further than in the US (if only due to the
    difference in salaries & office space rentals).

    The nationality side:

    As it is overseas students from such countries are recruited to
    the US, required to become US citizens - even when that entails
    renoucing or at least losing their original nationalities (even
    Australia's Andy Thomas had to give up his Aussie citizenship -
    in order to become a NASA astronaut; of course, he was quick to
    become a "dual-national" - ie, American (for NASA) and Austral-
    ian (for family & country?)).

    Why not make exploration & development of space a true -world-
    project where one can make one's contribution without "burning
    any bridges" (even temporarily).

    The economic side:

    As it is: An overseas student recuited from uni/graduate school
    has to pay "first world" rentals (if on a short-term project) &
    pay higher living costs, eg, while working in USA.

    Better if s/he could live & work in her/his own lower-cost land
    - both so s/he could increase the economic yield from the work
    and so that their country's economy could also win from her/his
    living costs being spent locally.

    The Internet (and faster networks) make such outsourcing at the
    individual lever practical.

    Fewer 2-way trips help the environment & more money coming into
    the local economy means more culture would be brought there - &
    less need to fly off to experience it.

    We do this with things (eg, incorporating the Canadian "robotic
    arm" into the Shuttle, etc.), & I think it's time to do it also
    for people, who might like to be nearer to family, friends, and
    their cultural roots.

    (Of course, those who choose can still "fly off" to experience
    the places & cultures of their choice, perhaps more so - since
    they would end up with more disposable income in their pockets
    than they would if they lived in higher-cost cities.

    What'cha think? :-)
  • by Coocha ( 114826 ) <[ude.tv] [ta] [ahcooc]> on Monday March 06, 2006 @10:04PM (#14863647) Homepage
    I filmed Mr. Musk's guest lecture at Virginia Tech, and I remember him mentioning that LOX+Kerosene is also very cheap compared to other rocket fuel combinations. Part of SpaceX's design/implementation strategy is minimizing costs in order to undercut Boeing/Lockheed's prices, so that's just another reason to use it.
  • by Eunuchswear ( 210685 ) on Tuesday March 07, 2006 @08:28AM (#14865535) Journal
    And, suprise suprise, it turns out that private armies are much more expensive than publicly owned ones.

    Whoda thunk it.

    (N. Machiavelli maybe? [c2i.net])

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