What's Known About the PS3 234
1up has an expansive piece up exploring everything they know about the PlayStation 3. They cover rumours, prices, technology, and the limited information currently out there on upcoming games. From the article: "While the hard facts are still tough to nail down, the general consensus is that the PlayStation 3 is the most powerful of the three next-generation systems, although probably not by as much of a margin as Sony would like us to think. The arguments for the technical strengths of the PS3 go into CPU floating-point capabilities and the difficulties surrounding programming for parallel architectures, but the long and short of it is that whether or not the advantages of the PS3 are apparent will depend on developers' ability to utilize the PlayStation 3's unique architecture."
With any luck... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:With any luck... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:With any luck... (Score:4, Funny)
Hell Yes! I've always wanted a PS3 at work. I knew it would happen!
Re:With any luck... (Score:2, Insightful)
Considering all the launch problems with PS2 this is good if it's meant as irony, and funny if not.
Re:With any luck... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:With any luck... (Score:2)
I suspect it's a moving target. If they where going to make a spring, 2006, they'd have started up production already, and someone would leak that they're making components for the beast.
The next gen Phantom (Score:5, Funny)
(it's a joke kids, someday that PS3 will come out).
Re:It's not all speculation! (Score:2)
Only 10 buttons? So the analog sticks aren't going to be clickable anymore, like on the PS2 Dual Shock controller?
Re:The next gen Phantom (Score:2)
Well then, they're about to make history 'cause no way is the PS3 coming out this spring.
-Eric
Re:The next gen Phantom (Score:2)
Off with his head!
More emphasis on functional languages. (Score:4, Funny)
Even a language like Erlang may begin to gain widespread popularity among game developers, as they begin to see the benefits that it brings when writing multithreaded applications.
With more industry support behind such technology, we may witness a computing revolution. It has been decades in the making, but its time is quickly coming upon us.
Re:More emphasis on functional languages. (Score:2, Informative)
Code written in languages with strong algebraic properties like referential transparency is ideal for doing automatic high-level transformations of code in order to increase parallelism.
As architectures get more complicated with multiple processors and multiple pipelines, we will more and more want to rely on automatic tools to search for good ways to structure code, from breaking up major processes right down to instruction level scheduli
Re:More emphasis on functional languages. (Score:2)
You wrote 300MB of source & classes for a class?
I've worked for places with a hundred man-years on a Java project and the whole thing fit on a mini-CDR. Were you guys some kind of programming gods that you could write a million lines of code in a year??
And you only got a B?!
Re:More emphasis on functional languages. (Score:2)
why the big secret? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:why the big secret? (Score:2)
It works for Apple. Well, at least it did until they made a big stink about a crappy "boombox" and 100 dollar leather case (with an Apple logo!).
Re:why the big secret? (Score:2, Interesting)
The developers started talking about it 2 years before its release, and hyped it up to be the best thing in the world with all these amazing features. Problem is, by the time it was released, 90% of those features had been cut due to problems with implementation, and time and budget limits.
Hyping up a product should only be done when you know exactly what the product is, because otherwise, you just spent a bunch of advert money on something that
Re:why the big secret? (Score:2)
Other things known about the PS3: (Score:5, Funny)
* It is not a strapless evening gown.
* Ducks may not try to mate with it.
* It is not a flotation device.
* Is not a good substitute for snow chains.
* It will not remove tough grease stains.
* It will not get you an automatic first post on Slashdot.
Re:Other things known about the PS3: (Score:2, Funny)
The Nintendo Revolution, on the other hand...
Re:Other things known about the PS3: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Other things known about the PS3: (Score:2, Funny)
* It is not a strapless evening gown.
But, you will be able to play games where female anime characters with big guns and
And also martial arts games where you can have female characters with said gowns.
If you're into that kind of thing.
Re:Other things known about the PS3: (Score:2)
But with all of those processing elements...OMG..it will, like, write my posts for me so I won't even have to think! It will simply be amazing and be able to display graphics in a higher resolution than the human eye can see! There is nothing that the PS3 can't do!
Re:Other things known about the PS3: (Score:2, Funny)
More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:3, Interesting)
OK, looks like xBox360 is going to lose a lot of market share when it ships, probably starting in December when most of the new titles ship.
Hmm, maybe I should sell my MSFT stock
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2, Insightful)
Probably since the XBox 360 has 100% market share for the newest generation.
Clown Wars, Anime Dating, RPGs, oh my (Score:2)
But, hey, whatever. I'm still saying, since I've seen no real moves in the 360 area t
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:3, Insightful)
Why? Are you holding yourself out as some kind of expert? Do you believe that your slashdot postings are so important that it's vital that nobody rely on them without full disclosure? Do you think that you have such an important position of slashdot trust that must be maintained by disclosing conflicts of interest?
No, it's not caveat emptor or ethics. (Score:5, Insightful)
As for ethics, nobody is buying stock on your word. NOBODY. You don't have a duty to disclose your ownership of MS stock because you're not creating some kind of reliance in us upon your word wherein your status as an MS stockholder makes us suspicious of conflict of interest. It's not like we have reason to believe you're neutral or that otherwise you'd be misrepresenting yourself by not telling us.
It's not relevant at all. You want to pretend it's relevant because you want us to be impressed. That's why you're throwing out that BS 15k range of stock value.
The ethical thing is to tell us truth about a situation when that truth has an impact on the situation. Supreme Court justices tell us their stock holdings when there's a potential conflict of interest because their decision may have some effect on the US. YOU telling us how much money you'd like to have invested in MS is equal to me posting "PS, I own a Ford and plan to buy another when this one dies" every time I mention cars because hey, that was a huge 5k-20k investment I made in that company, or that I took out student loans through one bank (becuase hey, that's a huge 16k-130k investment in that company) or that I took out a mortgage through another bank (because hey, that's a huge 1k-250k investment in that company.)
Your logic is so illogical it's like, I'm having trouble even semi-seriously attempting to take your concept of ethics seriously, it's like a doctor walking in, seeing that you have Nikes on and then telling you he prefers Converse and just wants you to know that despite his preference in shoes, he's going to try to not kill you on the operating table.
Re:No, it's not caveat emptor or ethics. (Score:2)
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Absolutely. Microsoft is going to want to counter the PS3 launch somehow, and cutting the 360's price to significantly below the PS3's is a no-brainer.
The interesting thing is that having the highest sale price in the market can be a GOOD thing -- it can make the product seem more elite and powerful than the competition. How many game
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Ehh, the increased price and power didn't really help the first Xbox surpass the PS2 did it? I'll grant you that it may help a bit. With cross-platform titles, I tended to choose the Xbox ve
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Hmm, I think even that is dubious. There's going to be a lot of ground to make up. By then, the 360 supply problems should have been fixed, and the next round of games are already coming out.
Now, December 2007? I'll agree with you there. That's probably around the time I pick up the PS3, after waiting for it to drop in price and the next round of games to come out. I'm guessing we'll see either FFXIII or the FFVII-remake come out
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Your sig is driving me crazy with suspense. How does it end!? By what!?
Re:More power, $400, Anime Dating, Puppies (Score:2)
Well, ok, since I've got a steady girlfriend for six months now, I haven't had time to do that, but still
Too many variables, too little information (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to mention that, by the time the PS3 comes out, there will be many titles available for the 360. Although (as TFA shows) there are a good deal of games in development, the 360's titles will have matured while those for the PS3 will remain untested.
Finally, the longer it takes for Sony to put this console out, the less people will have confidence in it. Console developers are always hush-hush about their products, but at this point, it would do Sony well to clarify some things; they keep saying that they're going to release on-schedule, but nobody else sees how they can possibly do that. If they _do_ release on schedule, I for one will be forced to assume that it was rushed to market, and therefore not worth the risk (especially at that price).
It's what's inside the box that counts (Score:4, Informative)
Release titles are what will matter - how many people would have picked up an xbox had it not been for Halo?
Re:Too many variables, too little information (Score:2)
Short summary: (Score:4, Interesting)
PlayStation 3: Most CPU power.
Nintendo Revolution: Most fun.
Personally I'd say Nintendo is the best in the means of innovation. The competitors are just "the same old, just faster, better, stronger", while Nintendo takes a step in a completely new direction.
Re:Short summary: (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Re:Short summary: (Score:4, Insightful)
Buying a new game every month or so isn't MY idea of fun. I'd rather have four titles a year with superlative replay value than 20 a year that get stale after three weeks.
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
WTF are you talking about? I have a PS2 and a cube. I've had the cube for half as long as the PS2, and I have about the same number of games (about 8-10 a piece), and would rate my GameCube games a good step up, on average, from my PS2 games. In fact, about half the GameCube games I have I would rank in my top-20 or so favorite games: Metroid Prime, Smash Bros. Melee, Skies of Arcadia Legends, Tales of Symphonia. I don't think one PS2 title has made it on that list, yet. The only thing I think the PS2 has g
A correction (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Short summary: (Score:4, Interesting)
Remember how the XBox looked set to eat the PS2's lunch? However after 5 years of hardcore low level programming on freakish hardware the latest round of PS2 titles look just as good as the XBox titles.
Frankly the PS3 is a *lot* easier to program than the PS2. All the complaining is coming from PC developers (a.k.a the current crop of Unreal engine licensees) who never touched the PS2 and don't know the meaning of pain.
The weak developers will die out, and the rest will push the PS3 way further than the XBox360.
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Let me guess, from press shows and short demos, or are you one of the elusive alphatesters under NDA? Didn't think so. Yes, it's definately different, and I'm sure that alone will be fun to start with. But when we get together some friends we can easily play the GC for 4-5 hours straight (just swapping the losers). How? Well because it's tiny little finger movements.
I honestly can't see any of us waving the revolution controller around for that amount of time. Also, I think it
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Nintendo DS (Score:2)
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
Re:New Directions (Score:3, Insightful)
It stops being hype when it ships. Until it ships...it is nothing but hype, rumor, and PR.
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
Moving to the Cell architecture is like a car moving to a hybrid engine: It's not really gonna change the way you drive.
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
I'd say it's a bit more complex then you suggest.
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
Try to use the XBox360 controller as a tennis rocket handle, as a frying pan handle, as a steering wheel etc.
Let's count in the means of variables of space, starting from oldest.
Directional Keys: 4 bits in separate devices, one key one bit.
Everything since incorporated some keys so let's omit the key=bit count.
Paddles: 2 floats in 2 separate controllers.
Digital joystick: 4 bits combined in one manipulator with combinations limits. 8 directions.
Mouse: 2 floats indicating pos
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
2 analog sticks (4 floats)
4 analog face buttons (4 floats)
2 analog triggers (2 floats)
For a total of 10. Now, I'm not going to claim that the analog face buttons can be used easily as analog buttons (since they don't move far enough), but they *are* analog regardless.
Re:New Directions (Score:2)
Re:Short summary: (Score:2)
Jumping Herbert Christopher in a dump truck... (Score:3)
It's a waste of breath, any of thsoe features can disappear between now and then. Further, I've done HW design long enough to know that the only people who actually know what will and will not work on launch are 2-3 HW guys who actually work on it, and 2-3 SW guys who actually work on it. Their managers, coworkers, beta customers, that guy in procurement? They only know some post-processed garbage that the engineers came up with to get some sleep, or worse, some counter-garbage politics devised by unfriendly managers to look for an excuse for why they can't make a commitment (look up the term "estoppel").
WoW and Galactic Civilizations 2 should be able to tide all of us over until the console wars v4 have subsided enough to make a buying decision.
Re:Jumping Herbert Christopher in a dump truck... (Score:2)
Played a Cell processor Demo (Score:5, Interesting)
In the software demo, they then enabled the cell processor, or re-routed the processing to it in some way (it was hard to tell exactly, and they weren't too forthcoming). The difference was remarkable. 30 - 40 fps, and a crystal clear picture. The data they were using was from (or at least they said it was from) satellite images, GPS data, aerial photo surveys, and USGS maps. It was extremely well rendered, down to pebbles. Clouds and such were just remarkable.
At the end they offered to let us "fly", so I jumped at it and took the first turn. While not a real game by any stretch, it was a lot of fun to manuever through the terrain and look at the detail. So, taking what they said was going on at face value, the cell was a very impressive processor.
One thing of note, though... the "cell processor unit" they had hooked up to the G4 was HUGE. Bigger then a standard PC case, with 6 120mm fans on it. Not exactly heartening for something that's supposed to go into a console.
Still, my impression of it was that it's got a TON of possibility, and it really is working hardware.
That's without the PS3's NVidia GPU (Score:5, Informative)
So in the PS3, the Cell processors aren't doing the rendering. The Cell should render about as well as everything else with a current NVidia part.
Flyovers are easy if you have enough RAM and a GPU. How much RAM did the demo rig have?
Re:That's without the PS3's NVidia GPU (Score:2)
Project New Jersey (Score:2)
More like "What is not known about the PS3" (Score:4, Informative)
- when will it ship
- what will it cost
- will games actually be able to live up to the great graphics and model/AI processing promised by the Cell processor marketing, or will they look pretty much like XBox360 games ?
- will there be a halfway decent online component ?
- is a hard drive included ? An add-on ? What's the deal ?
All we *really* seem to know is that there's a Cell processor inside, it'll support HD, include a Blu-ray drive, will take some sort of hard drive ( at least as an add-on ), will have built-in networking ( like crazy ), and will have a *ton* of games written for it... seriously, that's a long, long list of games. Oh, and it'll play existing PS2 games, though the article doesn't say that I think it's a well-known given. That and the controller they showed just looks weird.
Re:What we do know about PS3 since its on slashdot (Score:2)
Well, it was sorta helpful and at least interesting, but by your own admission... all guesswork.
The article is what we know and don't know. While it's unlikely, it's entirely *possible* that Sony could ship a lot earlier ( or a lot later ) than we all think. It's equally possible ( although totally unlikely because it'd be suicide ) that the machine will initially be priced higher than we think... or lower, with Sony taking a big hit to get Blu-ray going or shame MS or whatever other jus
What I Want to Know... (Score:2)
Or, as my friends in college liked to call it: Jedi Bitch-slap
Graphics power (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally, I'm more interested in new controls and new game play innovation.
Maybe the consoles are really made just to impress the reviewers?
Remember the Atari? (Score:2)
Warlords
Circus Atari
Kaboom
These games were great because largely because of the controller. The joystick/pad has limited us in what we do with games. When Nintendo swapped the buttons from our left hand to our right, we became even more limited in what the games can really do. The Atari paddle was just a pot and a switch, but it allowed a game like Kaboom to be played. There is not a game console out today that can run a
Re:Remember the Atari? (Score:2)
Buh?
There is not a game console out today that can run a decent game of Kaboom.
Zuh?
(P.S.: the joystick-in-the-left hand originated in the arcades, not with Nintendo, and any console made in the past 25 years could be made to support a paddle controller given under $10 of parts and a couple hours of hobbyist time.)
Re:Graphics power more important than game? (Score:3, Insightful)
So, for a cross-platform game, I think it's critical.
For a single-platform, or console (PS3) plus portable (PSP) decision, I don't think it matters that much. It won't make me buy one console over the other.
Re:Graphics power (Score:2)
Will it be sold at a loss? Of course! (Score:3, Interesting)
How much will it cost to manufacture, excluding the up front investments? Probably reasonably close to the XBox360. Just look at the pieces. 200M transistor CPU and GPU's cost pretty much the same no matter the design. The cases are reasonably comparable. Power supplies will be similar -- unless the PS3 magically is able to use a whole lot less power than the Xbox, but I doubt it. The one difference major difference would be the DVD drive vs whatever the PS3 will have, but this added expense is offset by helping Sony launch their next-gen DVD format.
Re:Will it be sold at a loss? Of course! (Score:3, Interesting)
PS3 - break even
PS3 controllers (extra, say two or three) - profit
PS3 game - profit, after first two
PSPs to attach and interact with PS3 - profit
PSP versions of PS3 games that interact with PS3 - profit
PS3 extra services - classic games, etc - profit
Not a bad market move.
Daikatana (Score:2)
Re:Daikatana (Score:2)
Overhyped analysts (Score:4, Interesting)
All this does is get the consumer to expect the worst.
Then when Sony prices it at $399 and delivers it on time, consumers will flock to it because now to them "It's $400 cheaper than I thought it would be! I've got to go get it!"
Sony loves right now that people are talking about $800 and $900 price tags. When they deliver at around $400 it will seem like the bargain of the century.
Re:Overhyped analysts (Score:2)
Sony loves right now that people are talking about $800 and $900 price tags. When they deliver at around $400 it will seem like the bargain of the century.
That strategy only works if the competition wasn't already available.
Instead people will spend their money on the xbox360, and when the PS3 comes out most people will have already purchased a 360 or a revolution.
How long will next generation really last? (Score:3, Interesting)
Lets take a look at console history. In every case you can see that for any particular console, the console's first generation games pale in comparison to games created towards the end of the consoles life cycle, at least on technical merit. Game worlds are more complex, graphics are better, AI is better, etc. This is because as time goes on, the developers become more familair with the specific capabilities of with the hardware and learnt o exploit the strengths and avoid the weaknesses. To me at seems that jsut as soon as developers really come to grasp with the specifics of the hardware they're wroking with, the hardware companies decide to release new consoles and the cycle starts over. Developers have to once again start the process of learning the ins and outs of the new hardware. In this case of the recent generation, I'd be hard pressed to say that the XBox and Gamecube games are even close to achieving their maximum potential. We'll never see it though, because, with the exception of 1 or 2 games, their life cycles have effectivly come to end.
Fast forward to the new generation of consoles that are coming to market. Well except for Nintendo I guess. (Nintendo seems to be trying to avoid this problem by basing the Revolution on a souped up Gamecube architecture. We've all read how they've said they're trying to make it easier on developers). This new generation, more so than any other transition, with the advent of multi-cpu parallel processing is really shaking up the development community. Developers who are used using the same old way of thinking, but just adjusting for specifics of different hardware, now need to completly reevaluate just how to program their software in a way that effectively takes advantage of all the parts of the processor. Many of us are still waiting for quality apps that take advantage of our dual core PC's, which is arguably a much easier platform to code for than the cell.
So here are my questions:
1) How long is it going to take developers to really exploit the power of the processor? We've seen that this can take several years, and with cell so radically different, it may take longer than usual.
2) When is the next-next console cycle going to show it's head (PS4, NextBox, etc)? 4-5 years? I have heard people say Sony intends the PS3 to have a long life (8 years?) but I think that is suicide. Gamers love new consoles and have become quite used to and supportive of the current console life cycle situation. If microsoft or whoever in 5 years comes out with another box thats better, Sony won't idly sit by, they will release a new console of their own or risk losing out.
3)So based on 1 and 2, I have to ask, by the time the next-next generation of consoles come out, will all this extra power of the cell processor even have been exploited? Based on the current situation of XBox and Gamecube, my prediction is no the maximum potential will not have been reached.
This brings me to my final point. If a) the cell is going to be initially difficult to program and it takes developers a long time to exploit the potential of the processor, and b) the lifecycle of the console will probably end before this potential can be reached anyway then c)what's the point? It seems that this technology is just going to drive up the cost of the system with out really giving gamers any of the benefits the processor has the potential to give. Hell, I doubt even XBox 360 developers will have been able to push its so called "weaker" hardware to the max before another generation of consoles is upon us. Do gamers really need all this hardware being thrown at them?
I'll reserve my judgement for the time being... (Score:2)
I can't add to Sony's coffers because of the DRM scandal. I find it morally reprehensible. Same goes for Apple - whom I've loved dearly for years, and who is due for a cash infusion from my wallet (my AppleCare on the PowerBook just e
Re:I'll reserve my judgement for the time being... (Score:2)
I'm no market analyst (Score:2)
I've long been a Sony fanboy, but in recent times it seems that Microsoft have finally clicked as to what makes a successful console, and Nintendo are innovating while managing to keep the fun and simple goals in view for their market.
They should just able to break even with the PS3 in the long run, but I don't forsee a PlayStatio
But... (Score:2)
That is if it's ever released...
It'll change (Score:2)
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:4, Funny)
Mario tries to jump over a fence, but his foot catches. Small splinters of wood are torn from the wood as he comes tumbling over the fence. He tries to brace himself for the fall, but breaks his arm. Game over.
Or, he tries to buttstomp some shroom and ends up with an impacted vertebrae and shattered pelvis.
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:4, Funny)
Just because the turtles bounce like they should doesn't mean Mario can't have super-human abilities.
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:3, Funny)
Hate to burst your bubble, but in real life, turtles don't bounce very well.
(But they are nature's suction cup!)
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:2)
What a great film. Thanks for the reminder.
Jedidiah.
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:2)
Mario game:
Mario jumps onto moving platform
Mario jumps again without pressing any dirction on the pad/stick/whatever
Moving platform moves out from underneath Mario, leaving him to fall to his doom.
Violation of Newton's First Law.
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:2, Insightful)
Millions of blocks all falling on the same screen takes a ton of CPU time. Now, weather they are falling with an acceleration of 9.8 m/s^s is immaterial to CPU time -- millions of real-time collisons take loads of number crunching, realistic or not.
Re:But..Over a Barrel. (Score:2)
Same deal with the game console race. Lots of cpu power wasted on brainless WWII shooters that don't even look very realistic either.
Re:hmm (Score:2)
Re:PS3 Facts (Score:2)