Senate Passes Patriot Act Renewal 705
IAmTheDave writes "The Senate has passed a renewal of the Patriot act, 89-10, after two extensions caused by months of negotiations. The only thing standing in the way of a full renewal is a House vote, expected to pass next week. The renewal comes with some privacy protections attached, however, some worry they are only cosmetic. Some lawmakers who voted for the package acknowledged deep reservations about the power it would grant to any president. "Our support for the Patriot Act does not mean a blank check for the president," said Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who voted to pass the bill package. Certain lawmakers supported passing the bill even though they were still wary about it - Arlen Specter urged his colleagues to pass it even as he promised to introduce a new measure and hold hearings on how to fix it. Terrorism aside, the bill also includes new legislation that has almost nothing to do with terrorism, like one measure, which would make it harder for illicit labs to obtain ingredients for methamphetamine by requiring pharmacies to sell nonprescription cold medicines only from behind the counter. I know that people like Arlen Specter promise further hearings - but why pass what you know is flawed?"
Pain in the ass (Score:5, Interesting)
This is already the case in Australia, although its a good idea a lot of pharmacists love to treat you like a criminal when you go in with a head cold to buy a pack of cold and flue tablets. Last year one of them refused to hand my drivers license back and I had to go to collect it from the police station after a few questions, turns out another guy with a name similar to mine had bought a few packets recently from that same chemist. All I wanted was bloody cold and flue tabs!!!!
Re:Why Pass It? (Score:5, Interesting)
Reminds me of those High School popularity contests...
Re:Pain in the ass (Score:2, Interesting)
Patriotism (Score:1, Interesting)
Sen. Russ Feingold: True Patriot (Score:3, Interesting)
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Feingold_reads_cons
Why not the GOOD AMERICAN Act? (Score:2, Interesting)
Democrazy (Score:3, Interesting)
Which leads me to wonder; where is the disrepancy between what the people want and what the politicians do, the largest; Autharitan China or Democrazied West? Personally, I think the answer is really, really scary.
Why pass it indeed? (Score:5, Interesting)
The Democrats are absolutely pathetic. They handed the 2000 election to the Republicans on a silver platter. They rolled over and played dead in the last elections. They made a point of pretending that there was NO opposition to the wars in the middle east. They pushed strong anti-war candidates and slotted in a pro-war candidates. They attacked Bush from the right in arguing that he wasn't doing enough to protect the world from terrorism, win the war in Iraq, etc, etc.
The problem is that the Democrats are a party that defends big business interests - just like the Republicans, only a litle less competent. This is why less than 50% of Americans vote - they realise that it doesn't matter who you vote for, the same people keep winning
Americans should take a good look at their 2-party system, and ponder what democracy is supposed to be about, and consider the difference between the two. It's a huge gap, and it's increasing at an alarming rate. Thank God the US hasn't been so successful at exporting their brand of democracy to the rest of the world.
I for Independent? (Score:4, Interesting)
Thinking of that, why isn't there a single republican in that list? You would think that a party that is supposedly about small government and staying out of people's affairs would have at least a few members opposed to the PATRIOT act. Doesn't the republican party contain ANY classical consevatives anymore? Is it really all neo-conservatives (AKA Fascists, in the Mussolini sense of the word)?
Re:meth (Score:5, Interesting)
This Sudaphed thing is a real hastle to me. I need it when I get sick and the "monthly limits" are stupid. What do you do if more than one party in your home needs the stuff? I can get 20 pieces a month?! I don't mind signing in but this is stupid. It gets hard to get and it gets impossible just as I need it.
As to the Meth Lab stuff. I had drug runners running a regular wholesale operation next door. You could watch them exchanging money and drugs in the street. They were outside the house with cell phones "dialing for dollars" every single day and all sorts of people were pulling up. I tried to call the FBI, you know the guys who are charged with catching this sort of crud. Well they didn't answer their answering machine. I tried calling the DA..., his people didn't care. I called the Sheriff..., he said call the "drug taskforce" with the state. I called the drug taskforce...., No result. I even offered to have the under cover guys stay in my house and film the operation from my house.
I finally threatened the Sheriff with advertizing for the drug guys by painting the street and with "Drugs this Way" signs and putting up signs on the lamp posts. That got the guys parole revoked for a while. But now the guys are back. What am I going to have to do? Shoot the guys? I know they would show up and arrest me if I did that. They cannot be bothered otherwise.
For the ignorant fools who believe the USA is either fighting terrorism or is fighting drugs, you simply do not know what is going on. The Patriot Act is a fraud. Start a business and you will find out what the Patriot Act is about. It is about TAXES! It is nothing else!
As to the stopping of Meth Labs and drug abuse. NOT! The restriction of precursors may have slowed the labs but the import via that border with Mexico that the US President refuses at all costs to protect is going through the roof. The dealer is next door to me. I know! I wish we could see a happier situation but the reality is that the President and his corrupt buddies are not stopping drugs, they are protecting their business in drugs against competition. Don't believe me? Try calling the FBI to deal with the drug running terrorists who are killing and drugging in our streets in the USA. I have tried. They don't even answer their phone!
For the MODS out there who might be tempted to disagree. Why on earth would you stop people from reading the truth?
Re:Pain in the ass (Score:2, Interesting)
Another interesting fact about Texas, the drinking age is 21. However at 18, you can secure a liscence to serve or sell alcohol. Makes perfect sense.
Re:Easy (Score:3, Interesting)
If you move to a new house the patriot act wouldn't apply to you unless you phone the government to register yourself.
Re:Not Flawed Legislation (Score:2, Interesting)
As presented by the President, the WTC style attack was foiled in Asia. A more accurate portrayal of the announcment would be "a plot was foiled" not "a plot was foiled by the White House." The President made no direct claims that U.S. policy or personnel played any role in the those arrests. Given this administrations willingness to reveal and even manufacture classified information for the sake of scoring political points, it seems likely that if the Patriot Act or NSA played any major role in those arrests, they would have specifically pointed it out.
Perhaps you remember shortly after 9/11, and shortly before the passing of the Patriot act, there were anthrax attacks targeted against memebers of the media and leaders within the opposition party? Appearantly, the abilities to monitor all communications, break into any residence, and to steal any property have not been sufficient to bring those attackers to justice. Last I heard, the strain of anthrax was traced back to a U.S. weapons lab. Perhaps we should just round up everyone who has had contact with that strain, send them off to secret prisons, and torture them until somebody talks. I know I'd feel safer.
The Patriot act and the war powers of the President seem insufficient to the task of keeping us safe. They clearly need to be expanded. All these rights and liberties are so "anti national security", they just might be un-American. Personally, I favor "equiping" all people under U.S. control with collars which allow for tracking, surveilence, interrogation, and termination. Maybe then we can be "safe". Oh, by the way, did I mention my uncle has a company which makes such security devices? He likes the name "Freedom Collar", but I think "Patriot Collar" would be an easier sell.
It's about time! (Score:0, Interesting)
Re:Not Flawed Legislation (Score:2, Interesting)
I fully believe in and support Ben Franklin's quote. Liberties are worth far more than a little (mostly illusory) security.
At the current rate of change, I give it about a decade before China and the US switch places (with China being the democracy and the US being the fascist state).
Re:meth (Score:1, Interesting)
I am speaking from personal expierence. We had the neighbor across the street go from smuggling illegal immigrants, to drug dealing, to making crack (I only know they were making crack because a cop told me what the sweet smell was). The neighborhood asked what they could do to help, and eventually was introduced to the detectives in charge. By knowing who to talk to little things like them asking us to record all license plate numbers and personall testifying that the people in the car went in the house (helped with warrant since most of the car were stolen and it directly connected them to the house). If anyone from that house did anything slightly illegal we had a number to call and we would say we were told to report anything illegal, and while it was minor if they had time we would appreciate them checking it out.
After a year, they discharged a weapon in city limits, police responded to our calls, when asked the owner said he didn't know if his home was safe for him to enter, so the police searched it and were able to seize stuff in plain site. Some how these trunkload full of drugs and weapons get thrown out and it was so hard for the neighborhood to keep up the effort.
Finally after two years of this, police responding to a call for a parked car blocking a private driceway, walked up to the house, had a person leaving the house pump into them, and had illegals drugs fall out of his pocket, finally allowing them to get an arrest warrant. Durring all this time, they were traking the chain and it lead to over 90 arrest warrants being issued for people from South Caraline up to Michigan.
Yes it took awhile. Yes for a long time it seemed like nothing was happening. Yes it was scary to go from a neighborhood were people didn't lock their door, to driving by people taking the tires off their car to get the drugs out while they were parked on the street in plain site.
The most shocking thing was after it was over, FBI officals from D.C. flew in to give the neighborhood a commendation for their help. They said if everyone would up this much, there wouldn't be a serious drug problem in the U.S. If you know about the situation and want it to change help the authorities.
Re:meth (Score:2, Interesting)
At that point, what you put into your body becomes everybody's business, and everybody is probably going to make it really difficult for you to keep doing it.
Which is all as it should be.
If we could trust people to not be asshats, we wouldn't have to regulate automobiles.
If we could trust people not to be asshats, we wouldn't have to regulate the funding of political campaigns.
If we could trust people not to be asshats, we wouldn't have to regulate hunting, or firearms.
If we could trust people not to be asshats, we wouldn't need the IAEA, or term limits, or Child Protective Services, or Social Security.
And if we could trust people not to abuse powerful and addictive drugs that destroy self control and compel their users to become burdens on society, we wouldn't have to regulate the precursors to those drugs.
Tell you what: you convince the tweakers give up their antisocial tendencies, and I'll happily support your lobby to deregulate pseudoephedrine.
Re:Not Flawed Legislation (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes the whole obcession America has with war is dispicable. I'm Canadian and when I went on a trip with a whole bunch of Americans all they could talk about is there army. If I said something about Canada they would mostly end up saying that atleast America's army was the best. I should hope so spending billions of dollars on it annually.
I always thought that collective security was the way to go. I would say that is roughly what Canada is doing. We help other countries, mostly opur army is used for humanitarian and peacekeeping/making missions. If anyone attacked us we probably wouldn't do that great by ourselves but think about the people who would back us up. Most likely every country on the UN Seceraty Counsel and others as well.
So yes you guys are obsessed with your military and that is probably bad. The other thing is that most likely this whole patriot act is designerd to give the government more power. Just like the whole war on terrorism is just to get that passed and other such things, and the terrorist attacks were probably just there to start the war. I would suggest watching this video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-777269653 0684663669&q=9%2F11+loose+change [google.com].
After watching that tell me you don't have some doubts. The fact that they are hiding so much is unsettling. And even if the attacks were caused by Al Quaeda, what if they are just doing what the U.S. said? On the other hand they could just hate the U.S. and be extremists like most people believe. Even so they have all those weapons because you gave them to them during the Cold War. Back when Russia was occupying Iran I beieve.
If America was smart all of it's citizens would unite and demand an explanation, because I think the Government could shed alot of light on this that the don't want to. What happened to "...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."(Abraham Licoln, The Gettysburg Address [1863])? As you may notice of the people, by the people, for the people. There doesn't seem to be alot of that happening.