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Next-Gen DVD Players to Rely on HDMI? 169

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the wouldn't-that-just-take-the-cake dept.
RX8 writes "For those thinking about upgrading to either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when they become available, you may want to think again. According to Designtechnica, the next-generation players will not support 1080i or 1080P and quite possibly not even 720P using the component video connection, it will have to use HDMI. Why? Because of copyright enforcement. Hollywood wants these new players to get rid of component video all together. So if you have an HDTV and want to use these new players, chances are you are out of luck. Neither the Blu-Ray or HD-DVD camps are officially saying anything about this yet, but early players are only showing these high resolutions using the HDMI connection."
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Next-Gen DVD Players to Rely on HDMI? More

Next-Gen DVD Players to Rely on HDMI?

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  • If this thing goes through, somebody's gonna come up with a little adapter box that'll convert it into S-video. That can be converted to composite / RCA. Problem solved.

    "This is a major dilemma, and no one is talking about it" -- THIS is the big thing. We have to be heard to stop things like this. Sure, there's tons of conversation to follow on this thread, but we need to post elsewhere about this as well. I suggest as many people blog about it as possible. I know I will.
    • Not likely as the real reason their limiting it to HDMI is because it's digital and it's encrypted.

      So sure you could split the ecrypted signal into s-video or whatever other form you want, but it's not going to show the video that you want to see on the screen.

      So here's my question... Analog inputs still work, but are in lower resolution. How do the analog inputs running in low res mode compare to a current generation DVD running over analog inputs?
      • The serious pirates will of course take the signal from the LCD controller where it's still high quality, high resolution.

        • Re:Serious "LITTLE" problem? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Gadzinka ( 256729 ) <rrw@hell.pl> on Monday February 20, 2006 @09:08AM (#14760382) Journal
          No, the serious pirates can for example buy "magic box" from countries outside of DMCA/EUCD reach, that will decrypt HDMI signal using the weaknesses found in the HDCP [wikipedia.org] before it even was implemented in a single device.

          It will be just like someone at Ars Technica [arstechnica.com] wrote: your HD player sometimes won't play your legal HD content on your computer or HDTV. But it will always play illegaly downloaded HD content from the Internet -- talk about shooting yourself in a foot.

          Robert
          • It will be just like someone at Ars Technica wrote: your HD player sometimes won't play your legal HD content on your computer or HDTV. But it will always play illegaly downloaded HD content from the Internet -- talk about shooting yourself in a foot.

            I'm having that exact problem now with a conventional DVD that uses Macrovision's new "Ripguard" technology.

            My DVD of "Cowboy Beebop Remix, Volume 4" will not even play on my Mac DVD player, however there are severall good rip programs out there which will comp
            • however there are severall good rip programs out there which will completely bypass Ripguard and create a perfect copy of my DVD which plays perfectly on my Mac, and allows me to burn a DL DVD which will play on pretty much everything.
              Got an example? I've been having trouble finding them for the Mac. I can make an MEPG4 with Handbrake, but I haven't succeeded in making a backup DVD.
              • The rippers which defeat Ripguard out of the gate (so far) are PC-based, but the next revision (r13) of Mac the Ripper 3.0 (beta) will do it, and expected to be released within the next couple of weeks.

                (You need to donate to the Mac the Ripper product to use their beta. Once it is released as the replacement for 2.6.6, it will be free.)

                Go to the ripdifferent.com forums for the details.
      • "How do the analog inputs running in low res mode compare to a current generation DVD running over analog inputs?"

        According to what I've heard, it will be equal to. Current DVD is 480P. The crippled component outputs of HD-DVD will be 480, as well. Here's the quote from Toshiba:

        their HD-DVD Player will ONLY output high Def on the player's HDMI output the analogue output will be downrezed to 480 lines. link [digitalspy.co.uk]

    • Re:Serious "LITTLE" problem? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by vnsnes ( 301511 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @07:56AM (#14760136)
      Not S-Video, but this device [engadget.com] will do the trick.
    • If this thing goes through, somebody's gonna come up with a little adapter box that'll convert it into S-video. That can be converted to composite / RCA. Problem solved.

      I've no doubt that the next gen dvdp's will have RCA (as in composite) and svideo output's on them when they ship anyway. but those output's don't support high def anyway, so they don't care.

      There are already boxes that take a HDCP encrypted DVI input and spit out a an unencrypted DVI output, and that's much better.

      The thing is, this isn't n

  • I'll be the first to say it... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dance_Dance_Karnov ( 793804 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @07:51AM (#14760116) Homepage
    This will do nothing to discourage the pirate, and will only serve to annoy and alienate paying customers.
    • Exactly, the pirates don't care about getting the 1080p version anyway. It takes too long to transfer over the internet. pirates don't care about resolution. that's why you see tons of cam versions on the internet which are such bad quality that it's laughable. They'll just copy the low res signal coming out of the component cables, or stick to copying the DVD versions, which with the way this tech is going, will be available for a very long time to come.
      • I guess you're too young to know this, but real movie pirates are selling physical DVDs at low prices. It's like high quality bootlegging. These people are making good money off of this, yet all this BS DRM isn't going to stop them in the least. People who upload ripped movies and shit aren't pirates; they're copyright infringers at most. They're not even making money off of said movies at least 99% of the time...

  • This is ribiculious... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Manip ( 656104 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @07:53AM (#14760120)
    What are these copyright protection schemes trying to accomplish? ... 99% of consumers *don't* copy their DVDs, 99% of consumers *don't* upload their DVDs to the internet ... But do you know who this hardware will affect? 99% of consumers.

    The last 1% of consumers who do backup / upload will continue to do so regardless of the protection. All it takes is a single producer to have a accidental backdoor (see X-Box exploits via a game).

    Further more why are they protecting the extra quality so vigorously? From what I've seen you have get non-HD pictures without any kind of protection, but for HD you need all this crazy stuff... But who is crazy enough to upload a full quality HD movie on the 'net?

    I think the copyright holders are going to KILL psychical media far faster than it otherwise would and push consumers towards platforms like iTunes for their video.

    • Re:This is ribiculious... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jonwil ( 467024 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @08:22AM (#14760223)
      Copy protection is (increasingly) designed to stop the casual copiers.
      For example, the people who borrow a CD off a mate and rip it to their MP3 player instead of buying the CD.
      Or the people who record episodes of TV shows with a DVD recorder instead of buying the DVD box set.
      Or the people who buy a new computer with a new version of windows or office or some other software package and decide to install it on all their other computers as well.
    • It's not about controlling that 1% of consumers. It's about reinforcing the idea of THIS DVD IS BELONGS TO THE STUDIO NOT YOU", in the minds of the other 99%.

      These restrictions are required to keep people fearful of the mighty power of the studios, to spook them into not downloading films and music. "If they can do this to the TV makers, just think what they can do to me!"
      • HDMI is scary because five-channel component is still brand new for most people. We're talking about people who may not even care if their previous set was in stereo. Now turn around and these people are getting 8-10 RCA's run up the inside of the wall, which equates to massive bandwidth and professional quality. The industry's reaction? To treat RCA like crack. Imagine sitting on someone's living room floor, crimping RCA cables and trying to explain how the're illegal and won't work. It's embarrassin

    • Re:This is ribiculious... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by pla ( 258480 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @09:12AM (#14760397) Journal
      All it takes is a single producer to have a accidental backdoor

      HDCP includes key revocation lists. One backdoor will work for all content predating the discovery of a flaw, but as soon as you try to play something newer with the compromised device added to its list, you lose the ability to play content dependant on the compromised device (even older content - CRLs/KRLs apply retroactively).

      That might well make you wonder what happens when someone like Sony or Toshiba eventually accidentally release a device with a flaw... Would Hollywood have the balls to make a million TVs go black with one stoke of their magic red pen?


      Though, on re-reading your comment, it occurs to me you may have meant something different - That once a compromise occurs, you can use it to transcode all earlier content, making revocation irrelevant? On that, I would agree with you, with one slight problem - Storage and playback. Sure, you could keep a few of your favorite movies on your HDD, but HD movies eat a LOT of bytes. And even then, you could only play it back on your computer, since any standalone device capable of playing it would bring you back to the HDCP problem you wanted to get around in the first place.
      • Key revocation lists are definately not the magic bullet to stop pirates. If the key for any popular TV becomes know then the studios have the choice of pissing off(and getting sued by) a LOT of customers, or dealing with the pirates.

        Also, there is nothing stopping you from transcoding the movie back into any format that will play on HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players(or maybe just stripping AACS from the files). Once Blu-Ray burners become common I'm sure it will be a trivial task to pirate HD movies.
      • That might well make you wonder what happens when someone like Sony or Toshiba eventually accidentally release a device with a flaw... Would Hollywood have the balls to make a million TVs go black with one stoke of their magic red pen?

        The HDCP Speicification [digital-cp.com] (PDF warning), available from Digital Content Protection, LLC [digital-cp.com] describes the copy protection mechanism in detail, including the key revocation mechanism. They don't turn keys off per brand-name, as many here assume. Each piece of electronics equipme
    • You're talking about the movie/TV industry and assuming that the primary motivation of the people who actually run things is centered about money. It isn't, and hasn't been, for a very, very long time. These people are almost solely motivated by POWER - the power to decide what you can and cannot watch, and under what circumstances. They want control far more than they want money; they're absolutely fucking obsessed with it.

      I've noticed that outsiders have a difficult time understanding this concept. Th
    • Well said.

      These copyright holders will have lost more money from me because of copyright restrictions than they gain.

      My local DVD rental store is great and has interesting films from all over the world. But very often I can't rent the DVDs because of zoning issues. And I can't be the only one that's been at an airport and thought, hey I'll buy a DVD to watch on my laptop on the flight, ony to remember that I'm in the wrong zone. The stupid thing is people who want to copy the films can do so quite easily, a
      • I barely bought anything on VHS. I used to do a lot of recording and archiving of television on VHS, esp. movies from HBO. SLP/EP mode at that.

        I didn't start buying DVDs until the advent of deCSS. But now my DVD library is reaching 700 titles, legally bought, and most of it is TV season or series box sets. (I believe a majority is still shrink-wrapped.)

        They didn't get their hands into my wallet until it was possible to copy. But odd thing is, I didn't "steal" anything. I don't do rent-to-copy. Anythi
    • "I think the copyright holders are going to KILL psychical media far faster than it otherwise would..."

      So the movie studios are like Ghostbusters?
    • Have you seen the prices they charge for videos on iTunes? $1.99 for a single episode of a TV show. I strongly suspect that the margins (and thus profits) for media-less distribution are higher than having to schlep around physical media. I don't think the content owners would be all that sad if they had to only sell the higher-margin stuff with less hassle.

      Still, I think (and hope) it will be a big black eye when BOTH of the new standards fail. (Although both SACD and DVD-A have failed as well, and nobody

  • The formats will flop (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zork the Almighty ( 599344 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @07:55AM (#14760126) Journal
    This article would have been better titled: "Next-Gen DVD Formats Will Flop" because that is exactly what is going to happen. They've got a small market of people willing to replace all of their gear as it is, and now they have introduced compatibility problems on purpose with these inane restrictions. Nevermind the fact that they've got two completely incompatible formats, one of which is guaranteed to fail. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. The word of mouth on these things will be how "so-and-so spent gobs of money and it didn't work".

    • Re:The formats will flop (Score:5, Interesting)

      by zerocool^ ( 112121 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @09:56AM (#14760574) Homepage Journal

      Right. I cannot possibly be the only one without all this next generation hi-def crap. I mean, it's all you hear about, it's all you see advertised, but 90% of america CANNOT all be spending $2300 on a TV. It's just not happening.

      I'm still rockin' my 20" TV I've had since I went to college (it's dorm sized) even though I now have my own townhouse, etc. My TV at best has a composite input (like, standard RCA), and my stereo is Dolby Digital 5.1, minus the .1 (no subwoofers in townhouses - the 2 year old makes enough noise to annoy the neighbors). My equipment is all old, with the exception of the Tivo, which is new but doesn't have any functionality over an old device - it outputs standard L/R RCA for sound and composite RCA for video. Plus, my cable signal is far from Digital - my cable company doesn't even offer digital cable. At best, it's slightly grainy regular cable, and the closer you get to channel 1, the worse it gets (no PBS for me, no antiques roadshow, and CBS is pretty fuzzy, so no Criminal Minds or new CSI).

      And you know what? My next upgrade is going to be a TV in the 32-36" range. Yep, appearantly, they still exist, but Circuit City, Best Buy, and all the retailers don't advertise them and refuse to help you with one - they want to push you into the $2000 Hi-Def flat screen yada yada widescreen next-gen high-profit-margin. No Thank You, I'm on a budget of probably $600, which believe it or not will buy a decent 36" or a pretty good 32", something with at least componant and s-video inputs.

      But, it's probably going to be 5-10 years before I switch to something that can do 1080i or 720p. I mean, I'm sure it looks great, but I'm a fan of "looks good enough". Besides, I just got glasses, so to me, even regular 360 lines of resolution over an RCA cable looks fantastic, whereas 2 months ago, even it looked blurry. See? I just got Hi-Def with a trip to the optomitrist!

      Someone has told these people that everyone on earth has or is getting a High-Def TV, and multiple devices that can display to it, along with multiple things encoded in hi-def. The problem with this is that it's just not true. It's too expensive; no one can decide on a standard (720p, 720i, 1080i, 1080p, 480p, HDMI, component, DVI, VGA, etc etc); and no one wants to repurchase their collection of DVDs.

      Thanks, but no thanks. Get your ducks in a row, get the prices down for those of us who aren't living on credit cards and conspicuous consumption, find a standard, and make it backwards compatable. Then we'll talk.

      ~Will
      • My 27" picked-up-off-the-curb-and-fixed-a-bad-solder-joi n t TV has served me well for a decade now; when the vertical hold finally goes out, I'll swap it for a "new"(er) off-the-curb TV provided by one of those gotta-have-HDTV folks in the neighborhood. Repairing to the component level is FUN! (Besides, who really needs HD for the crap that passes for television programming? A decent analog set does fine, works with cable and my cheap DVD player, and will continue to do so for a long time.)

        I'll buy an HDTV

        • (Besides, who really needs HD for the crap that passes for television programming? A decent analog set does fine, works with cable and my cheap DVD player, and will continue to do so for a long time.)

          You said it -- DVDs. Try getting widescreen or high resolution from a SDTV. Ain't gonna happen. There are a few nice things on HDTV channels, too. I watched some of the Olympics in 1080i, it looked absolutely gorgeous. Comparing the same event on a HD channel and a SD channel is like comparing.... well I don

      • "I cannot possibly be the only one without all this next generation hi-def crap."

        Nope. My former hand-me-down TV finally died in late '04, so I replaced it. I took one look at the cost of HDTV and said "fuck that". I picked out an enormous (by my standards) 32" Sanyo with a ton of options for just under $300.

        It has RCA jacks, a coax cable jack, S-Video, stereo outputs, game console input and several other jacks that I have yet to identify. All I know or care about is that my DVD player works now without a c
      • Last year when my TV died (4:3, ~17 Inch model), I just searched for the most cheapest replacment, I set my budget for ~40.000 Yen. Gosh, I ended up with an amazing 16:9 Sony, ~24 Inch. Of course not HDTV and other crap, but who cares.

        The only HDTV device I got is the X-Box 360 my gf bought for herself. Ridge Racers 6 still look good, TV? None that I know here which interests me. DVD? Looks fine too.

        There is no need to spend 10x times the money, just to get the latest LCD-high-end-hdtv-super-duper crap ...
  • What stops someone from sticking a video camera on a tripod and recording a TV? Nothing.

  • Hmmm, $thousands on new hardware, or piracy? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by hattig ( 47930 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @08:03AM (#14760160) Journal
    These companies are so focused on restricting the usability of their products to protect imagined revenues that they aren't seeing the big picture - if there is a better, more usable, accessible, cheaper alternative available, people will use that.

    The quality of piracy has gone up massively with internet distribution. Once pirates work out a system for ripping HD-DVDs and BluRay (and they will), then they can offer high quality films that will work on computers, older HDTV sets that people invested a lot in, and so on.

    Functionality is a massive selling point, enough to make even people that actually do want to pay a fair price for the real thing think about getting the more functional version.

    Sadly all this expensive work spent on restricting users will not bring in much more revenue to the companies - those people mainly pirate because they can't afford it otherwise, or wouldn't pay for it being stingy bastards. Instead they'll manage on the DVD resolution version - quality isn't a big issue for them either - students can't afford HDTV systems, stingy people have 20 year old televisions.

  • Next Generation Players Bound To Fail (Score:3, Insightful)

    by omegashenron ( 942375 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @08:04AM (#14760162)

    Seriously, if this is the case, who is going to waste their money and buy one of these players?.

    Consumers will be outraged (even the stupid ones). After all lets see what there is to consider:

    • Choose a format you want and buy the player but to get all available titles you will really need to fork out cash for both players - who is going to do this?
    • Discover that after you buy your two shiny new players that they will not work with your existing HDTV so fork out more cash for a new HDTV.

    I think many retailers will end up experiencing a large increase in returned AV equipment in the coming years so much so that perhaps some retailers may decide to stop stocking such products or at least pick stock that is known to work together.

    As for me, I probably wont worry about upgrading because my existing DVD collection is sufficiently entertaining and the quality of movies being released now days is simply appalling. In the end it's just not worth it.

    • Re:Next Generation Players Bound To Fail (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CastrTroy ( 595695 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @09:03AM (#14760364)
      3. You realize that after you buy both machines and even though you have a TV with HDMI, that it only has 1 HDMI port, and you have to switch the players back and forth every time you want to play a disc of a different format.

      • 3. You realize that after you buy both machines and even though you have a TV with HDMI, that it only has 1 HDMI port, and you have to switch the players back and forth every time you want to play a disc of a different format.

        OR if you have HDTV through Digital Cable or Satellite.

        That's the biggest sticking point with me. I watch a DVD per week (more if I'm on holiday) but I watch HD Television every day. This will be a pain to switch back-and-forth if I want High Def movies as well.

    • Discover that after you buy your two shiny new players that they will not work with your existing HDTV so fork out more cash for a new HDTV.

      On one hand, I kind of hope that this scheme is a success, because if it is and the early adopters act as you quoted above, then there should be a glut of high-quality HDTVs hitting the used market real soon. Then I might actually be able to afford one! And since any content I view in HD would be over the air (or perhaps *cough* "unencumbered content" aquired by other
  • CSS did nothing to stop pirating of DVDs. Neither did restricting composite outs on DVD players.

    My question is, who are the asshats making this decision, because they obviously have no technical background. Anyone who knows anything knows that you don't need any composite outs or decryption schemes to make a bit-for-bit copy of anything. As soon as the first PC Blue-Ray/HD-DVD drive hits the shelves, you will be able to copy these movies. That simple.

    (Sure, you may not have anything to copy them *onto*, but
    • CSS was never intended to prevent copying of DVDs, it was intended to prevent copying of DVD players.

      This always struck me as being pretty obvious, but some people just don't seem to get it. If it was meant to prevent copying the DVD, why would, say, copying the DVD work fine?
      • Er.... why would someone want to copy a DVD player?

        It would cost more in parts and labour then it would be to go just buy one.

        This was true when they were first released, and is even more true now.

        Unless you are talking about a software player? In which case you would just be plain wrong, CSS encryption does not protect the software binaries in any way from pirating.

        • Why? Because mass produced unlicensed knockoffs years ago could've decimated the ability for companies like Sony to build them.

          It happened anyway, but it helped prevent unlicensed players from entering hte market the better part of a decade. This meant that region controls were appropriately enforced and compatibility was maintained.

          And CSS does prevent unlicensed players from playing protected content -- although there are a lot of illegal players out there using DeCSS.
      • But something like DVD players would have most certainly been patented, so cheap knock-offs would've been illegal without licensing anyways...
  • HDMI is unlikely to be required, HDCP over DVI should be fine. The european 'HD Ready' badge only requires HDCP not HDMI.

    There are already boxes out there that remove the HDCP, but they'll get their certs revoked and cease to work in future I'd guess.
  • You could just buy a player that ignores that crap and outputs in 18 different ways. From where might one purchase such a device? Why from the same factory in china that makes the "normal" players. Only these where made on the night shift. And cost 1/4 as much.
  • The electronics industry's best customers went out and spent thousands of dollars on big-screen television sets with component inputs. Now Hollywood is saying, "Fsck you, you potential copyright terrorist, buy another multi-thousand dollar television set." With any luck, that attitude will kill both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.
    • It's doing the trick on me at the moment. I'm not the earliest of early adopters for home entertainment stuff, but I'm usually not far behind, and have spent many thousands on kit for the house.

      I'm in the market for a new HD-TV now (I bought a widescreen TV when they first came out, but it's a big fat CRT and I want a nice shiny thin LCD/plasma to hang on the wall and play XBOX-2 games on), but I aint buying while there's so much confusion/disagreement on standards. I don't mind (too much) paying early adop

  • I'm tired... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ThinkDifferently ( 853608 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @08:41AM (#14760279)
    I am really tired of having to upgrade all of my entertainment equipment every 5 years. I am not a bottomless pit of a consumer. I've replaced all of my equipment twice in my lifetime, and I'm only 35. Well, I'm tired of it now. As it is, I have to buy a specialized media pc just to record fscking HD content (where were the components?). Damn Blue Ray! Damn HD-DVD! They can rot for all I care. I won't be hollywood's damn pawn. I am the consumer, and I vote with my wallet. ...and if Blockbuster ever drops the DVD format, guess what? I'm not going to Blockbuster anymore.
    • I am really tired of having to upgrade all of my entertainment equipment every 5 years.

      Then don't. Who held a goddam gun to your head and forced you to buy a new TV?

  • So? (Score:2)

    by MrWorf ( 216691 )
    Who, in his/hers right mind bought a set/projector/whatever which is HDTV compatible (and I don't mean 480p, I mean atleast 720p and above) and didn't check for DVI with HDCP or HDMI ?

    Come on people, if you're about to fork out a grand or more on a "tv", don't you find it reasonable to check so it's somewhat futureproof? We all knew this would happen sooner or later, I'm just surprised it took this long. If I were MPAA I would have made sure to enforce HDMI/HDCP as soon as a ratified draft was ready.

    Not tha
  • And I have been avoiding buying one until I could get a decent sized 1080p monitor (40'+) at a decent price. That is starting to become possible. On the other hand, I have been collecting DVDs (I have about 350-400) and watching them on my various limited size computer monitors. As a family (with three kids) we are a little tired of the small monitors. I would love to switch over to one of the new DVD formats. But of course I was waiting for the format war to resolve itself since as you might be able t
    • as you might be able to tell I am a very conservative purchaser

      Given that you've said you've spent probably north of $6,000 on DVD's, no, I can't tell. Please tell me how conservative that is.

    • a decent sized 1080p monitor (40'+)

      That's like, what, 12 metres? Holy crap. What do you consider to be "large sized"?

  • HDCP and Blu Ray (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bernywork ( 57298 ) * <.bstapleton. .at. .gmail.com.> on Monday February 20, 2006 @10:02AM (#14760604) Journal
    Actually, all the boxes that are built around Blu Ray at the moment will output 1080i and 1080p over their Component outputs.

    They are saying that it's up to the studios to disable this via the medium if they choose too. The box manufacturers want to stay as far away from this arguement as possible, they don't want the bad blood with the consumers. It could well be that the studios do choose to do this, aside from HDCP, Blu Ray also has the additional feature of being able to black list boxes. Apparently what they are doing is embedding the key of the machine that decoded the stream into the video output. That way the studios can pick up that key out of a ripped copy and then disable that unit for all future releases. Based on this, they don't want to introduce any further copy protection onto the Blu Ray discs such as a more advanced version of CSS encoding or other encryption.

    However, a lot of this is up to the studios in how they want to protect their content when it's published. What happens thereafter the box manufacturers don't want to know.

    Well that's what I was reading the other day anyway.
    • Spin vs Counter-Spin:

      So what you're REALLY saying is that all Blu-Ray manufacturers are MANDATORILY locking out the normal video outputs on the boxes to screw over the people who buy them, but that they do allow publishers to encode the disks to UNLOCK the normal video outputs. Gee, thanx. Not.

      The box manufacturers want to stay as far away from this arguement as possible

      If they want to stay away from the argument then they should stay the hell out of it. If they don't want "bad blood" with their customers (
      • are MANDATORILY locking out the normal video outputs on the boxes to screw over the people who buy them,
        No, they are giving the content providers a CHOICE as to whether they want to down res this output to the same standard as DVD or to leave it at HD, a debate that's still going on.

        The hardware manufacturers are at the end of the day trying to sell boxes and a format to a bunch of consumers (The studios, and to a lesser extent at the moment, the public). They want their format to win, they know this is goi
        • >are MANDATORILY locking out the normal video outputs on the boxes to screw over the people who buy them,
          No,

          Yes. It is mandatory until the moment they offer a version that does not impose that lockout.

          they are giving the content providers a CHOICE as to whether they want to down res this output

          No, they are denying me a choice. The manufacturers are enforcing this on me. The content providers are perfectly free to down res THIER output all they like. They can down res the outpout all they like on machines

  • IT'S ACCESS CONTROL, not copy protection (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    These moves do nothing to prevent copying.

    They are designed to restrict access to the copyrighted works only to limited, licensed, subset of devices that are designed under the tight control of media giants. MPAA wants to decide how you consume their content.

    They want you to sit thru the commercials without skip ability. They want to dictate terms to both display manufacturers and end users about the type of display device used. They want region control that works to protect their price discrimination syste
  • "For those thinking about upgrading to either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD when they become available, you may want to think again."

    So what's the alternative? What is the High Defintion alternative that is on the horizion that people can purchase instead?

    Don't forget that the kind of people with a HD display already are the 'early adopters' who will probably buy both a Blu-Ray and a HD-DVD player.

    The alternative is, uh... to watch those Petticoat Junction DVDs they sell at Walgreens for $0.99. Content is King, and t
  • I'm using a JVC-HM-DH5U D-VHS deck connected to a Sony HS-20 digital projector via HDMI. I often see dropouts and HDCP renegotiation between the deck and projector during viewing. It's especially apparent during resolution shifts between HD and SD recordings. The renegotiation can take several seconds during which the screen completely blanks, so it's not a minor blip during playback.

    If these issues aren't ironed out soon, I expect the first and second generation of HD disc players will not operate with dis
  • Since this is holding up the PS3...
    http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/fun.games/02/20/s ony.playstation.reut/index.html [cnn.com]

    I wonder if Microsoft (and pals) are somehow dragging feet in the discussion to hold up the PS3?

  • Hollywood wants these new players to get rid of component video all together.

    Hollywood wants these new players to get rid of component video.

    (Typos like this make me wonder if people actually understood why the original joke [imdb.com] was funny.)
  • With announcements like this, it looks like DVD's are here to stay - and the general public will ever move to the HiDef world. They're gripping the reigns so tightly that the horses will never leave the gate.

    The general public never adopted LaserDisc, but DVD worked out great because of the lax content restrictions. Hollywood wants to control the home theater the same way they controll the movie theater and IT WILL NEVER WORK!

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