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Other Uses for an AGP Slot? 160

SleepyHappyDoc asks: "AGP seems to be going the way of the dinosaur, but there's still a lot of slots on legacy motherboards out there. If you don't have need for the graphical advantages of AGP (say, on a headless server), what else could you use the AGP slot for? Could the advantages of AGP over PCI be leveraged in a use other than graphics cards?"
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Other Uses for an AGP Slot?

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  • by Idimmu Xul ( 204345 ) on Sunday February 19, 2006 @02:22PM (#14755342) Homepage Journal
    I'm going to have to go with none and move along.
  • Well (Score:3, Informative)

    by Eightyford ( 893696 ) on Sunday February 19, 2006 @02:24PM (#14755350) Homepage
    You could always make try to hack your own peripheral. [hardwaresecrets.com]
  • by BobPaul ( 710574 ) * on Sunday February 19, 2006 @02:26PM (#14755358) Journal
    AGP has more downstream bandwidth to the slot than upstream bandwidth from the slot, whereas PCI and PCIe have the same to and from the slot.

    You could use it for something like a beefy sound board.. or, something...

    No, not much other than graphics output really needs that kind of bandwidth differential.
  • by jnik ( 1733 ) on Sunday February 19, 2006 @02:45PM (#14755442)
    GPGPU [gpgpu.org] is what you're looking for.
  • by Kijori ( 897770 ) <ward.jake @ g m a i l . c om> on Sunday February 19, 2006 @03:09PM (#14755610)
    An adaptor to use AGP cards in PCI slots already exists. It's called AGP express, and is made by ECS. A bridge chip to run AGP in PCIe should also be possible, and I'm sure we'll see one as demand increases.
  • by name773 ( 696972 ) on Sunday February 19, 2006 @03:16PM (#14755662)
    maybe for running hashes on something... a hash is usually smaller than the data you used to get it, and it does take some processing
  • Re:Leverage (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19, 2006 @03:27PM (#14755723)
    Hey genius, apparently you have neither encountered "leverage" as a verb nor taken the trouble to make sure you're right, because leverage can indeed be used as a verb.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dict.asp?Word=lev erage [thefreedictionary.com]
  • Re:Leverage (Score:3, Informative)

    by Vorondil28 ( 864578 ) on Sunday February 19, 2006 @04:25PM (#14756065) Journal
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthimeria [wikipedia.org]

    An Ask Slashdot post isn't exactly poetry, but using "leverage" as a verb is not only a de facto use of the word, it's also a recognized figure of speech.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday February 19, 2006 @08:35PM (#14757553)
    Kijori: AGP is a one-way architecture

    That's a funny thing to say given that the highest rated post above yours is "VRAM Storage Device" [slashdot.org] which describes how to use the RAM on an AGP graphics card as block storage [linuxnews.pl].

    One-way swap or filesystems just aren't that useful.

    Besides, how do graphics cards read textures from system RAM if they can't signal anything back?
  • by xeeazgk ( 850506 ) on Sunday February 19, 2006 @10:06PM (#14758098)
    I don't think you guys understand the kind of massive speed differential we're talking about. I don't remember the numbers, but it's like G/s to the card and K/s back. It's just enough to tell the processor that the card is ready for the next rendering task, nothing more.

    Someone mentioned doing video compression... because you could send the compressed file back. Well ok, except, A. video cards only have 256mb of ram... so your uncompressed video would only be like what 30 seconds? B. getting the data back to the hard drive would be like transfering files over a serial cable... like old PS/2 serial, not USB2 serial.

    Now... a card with a SATA out would work. That's the kind of bandwidth that would help, although for most applications just an IDE out would do the trick.

    But these cards don't exist. So no... nothing to be done with agp slots.
  • by Anonymous Freak ( 16973 ) <anonymousfreak@i ... inus threevowels> on Sunday February 19, 2006 @10:40PM (#14758280) Journal
    Sorry, not quite true. AGP is a 100% spec PCI 2.1 interface, just pumped up in speed, then with a couple of nice add-ons added. (Direct Memory Execute, for one.) On some server motherboards, you will see the AGP slot replaced with one or more higher-speed PCI slots. (I haven't seen it too much recently, but Intel used to sell the L440GX board that had two 66 MHz PCI slots that were run off the AGP controller, in addition to the 33 MHz PCI slots off the Southbridge. But this was back in the Pentium II days.)
  • Where do all these other top-level posters get their information?

    AGP is a subset of PCI. The original AGP spec (1.0) defined a dedicated slot with a 32-bit, 66 MHz PCI connection directly to the Northbridge, plus the ability to directly access main memory more quickly than conventional DMA allowed. AGP 2x then increased speed by using a double data rate system, similar to DDR memory, transferring two data chunks per clock cycle.

    AGP 4x then added a quad data rate connection, Fast Writes (the ability to write to main memory out of normal order,) and Direct Memory Execute (the ability for the AGP card to execute directly out of main memory, rather than having to load into on-board memory first.)

    AGP 8x just oct-data rate'd it. It's still 32-bit, 66 MHz PCI, though.

    But, either way, AGP *IS* a PCI connection. Fully compliant with PCI 2.1, with full bandwidth in each direction.

    There are/were bridge chips that converted the AGP connection into one or more PCI slots, which would become fully-compliant PCI 32-bit, 66 MHz slots. These bridge chips were sometimes used on lower-end server motherboards with onboard PCI video, as a cheaper alternative to adding a separate 64-bit PCI controller. They could be found on products from Intel (L440GX,) and others.

    BUT, since it is only 32-bit, you're limited to a 32-bit, 66 MHz PCI connection. PCI-X requires 64-bit for its faster bus speeds. That means that there are no bridge chips that will give you anything better than a 32-bit, 66 MHz PCI 2.1 connection. You can run multiple cards off this connection (As the Intel board listed above did,) but just as with 'regular' PCI, you are sharing the speed among all the cards.

    But, any 66 MHz PCI card (or any correctly backwards-compatible PCI-X card,) would take advantage of the doubled speed over 33 MHz PCI, though.

    See http://web.archive.org/web/20040205095311/http://w ww.gcsextreme.com/agpfaq.htm [archive.org] for more info. (Sorry, Slashdot's code doesn't want to let me make that into a proper link, it breaks it into 'archive.org' and 'gcsextreme.com' segments, you'll have to copy and paste, then remove the space yourself.)
  • by NekoXP ( 67564 ) on Monday February 20, 2006 @01:51AM (#14759052) Homepage
    I was wondering the same thing myself. Fools.

    It should be noted that the AGP bus in general has snooping turned off; the GART in the northbridge
    handles all of the memory access therefore it can and should always tell when memory is being accessed
    (therefore you can't rely on caching video memory like you would on a PCI card). Without snooping on
    DMA transactions this speeds the bus up somewhat. It also lacks the interrupt routing lines. What this
    basically means though, is that without a bridge chip, it ISN'T exactly the same as a PCI slot - if
    you put more than one device on there, only the first will work, and even if you could, you'd
    effectively trash memory every time you did PCI DMA.

    As PCI ('frame mode') you're right, it's just a 66MHz 32-bit PCI slot. In fact we make two board
    designs at the place I work, one of which puts an AGP slot onto a 66MHz 32-bit PCI bus (and it works
    fine up to the point of having a 3.3V keyed slot, and the industry moving on to 1.5 and 0.8V devices)
    and one which has a 66MHz 32-bit PCI slot which we ship an AGP riser for. Everything Just Works (tm).

    AGP specs *also* has a USB connection routed to it but I dare say it's not been connected on most
    motherboards since the dawn of AGP 2.0 (everyone seems to use I2C on the card and talk via some
    kind of PCI configuration/register space logic instead).

    There is plenty of stuff you can do with AGP but seriously who'd want to these days. You're picking
    up old boards now, trying to do "cool" geeky things with them? What for? You're too cheap to move
    to PCI Express? :)

BLISS is ignorance.

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