PC Games Giant Rouses From Slumber 164
An anonymous reader writes "The Rocky Mountain news has a piece up looking at the revival of PC gaming." From the article: "'PC gaming used to take up the entire store,' said Ken Levine, president and creative director for Irrational Games. 'Now PC gaming get's a tiny little shelf. Literally you have a fraction of the shelf space.' So which is it for the future of PC gaming? Is it a dinosaur marching toward the tar pits or a sleeping giant ready to wake and reclaim its past glory? The industry's top advocates say there are plenty of problems keeping PC gaming down - but just as much potential that portend its inevitable rebirth."
Sqrt(-1) (Score:5, Funny)
The day that PC games do not literally have a fraction of the shelf space in a store is the day the universe faces some serious, serious issues.
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:2)
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:2)
From the OED:
(3)b. Used to indicate that the following word or phrase must be taken in its literal sense.
Now often improperly used to indicate that some conventional metaphorical or hyperbolical phrase is to be taken in the strongest admissible sense. (So, e.g., in quot. 1863.)
1687 DRYDEN Hind & P. III. 107 My daily bread is litt'rally implor'd. 1708 POPE Let. to H. Cromwell 18 Mar., Euery day with me is literally another yesterday for it is exactly the same. 1761-2 HU
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:1)
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:3, Insightful)
"usage Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary."
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:2)
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:3, Funny)
*grin*
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:2)
Nigel Tufnel: We don't literally say it.
David St. Hubbins: No, we don't say it.
Nigel Tufnel: We don't really, actually mean it.
David St. Hubbins: No, we don't believe it either, but...
Nigel Tufnel: But we're not racists.
David St. Hubbins: But that message should be clear.
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:1)
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:2)
Duh.
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:2)
You should be ashamed! The fact that you did not complete your joke with a reference to the company's name, Irrational Computing, is unforgivable.
Re:Sqrt(-1) (Score:1)
Thanks.
"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:2, Insightful)
I wouldn't buy electrons unless they're much cheaper than the boxed version. The used boxed version. There are too many overhyped and overpriced games out there. If you waste your money on a bad game wouldn't you rather have a physical copy you can resell?
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:2)
If it's less than $25 or so, is it really worth the Ebay hassle?
"I wouldn't buy electrons unless they're much cheaper than the boxed version. The used boxed version. There are too many overhyped and overpriced games out there. If you waste your money on a bad game wouldn't you rather have a physical copy you can resell?"
Every game available I've found in electronic-only format has also had a demo version available; if you don't try-before-you-buy
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:1)
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to be a dinosaur, but in the last 20 years, I have seen size of PC games shelf space cycle at least twice. The last big swell was when PC were selling like hot cakes a few years ago. I'd go into EB or even Walmart and somewhere like 75% of the shelf space was devoted to PC games. I think the problem now is that people aren't turning thier PC's as fast as they the "industry" thought they would. In addition, alot of modern games require some serious hardware like sound and viddeo cards that aren't always installed on units. So people don't buy the games because their machines won't run them. Christ, I have a pretty ripping laptop, but I can't play Quake on it.
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:2)
That statement doesn't seem to mesh, either your definition of ripping is different than mine, or you haven't tried to install quake.. and I assume you mean quake4? You too good for 640x480 gaming?
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:2)
Do you mean Quake 4? Because I've got a Libretto 100CT [toshiba-dme.co.jp] and it plays Quake just fine.
And by no stretch of the imagination could that Libretto be called a 'pretty ripping laptop'. It barely runs Windows 2000.
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:2)
I wanted to play "Silent Storm", and at being unable to find it in stores I've pretty much figured "Eh - later. Maybe." Sure, it's only $20 on Amazon.com, but I'd rather just click, download, go play my DS for a bit,
Damn you nose breathers! (Score:1)
Re:"Shelf space" is obsolete (Score:2)
Why they allocate they way they do (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why they allocate they way they do (Score:1)
Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Take a look at Walmart. Walmart deals in small margins anyway so they don't care what you buy as long as you're buying. They give just as much shelf space to PC games as they do the each of the major consoles.
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Civ IV = Memory leakage, lots of memory leakage
Battlefield 2 = EA likes to change the rules every so often, and makes you pay for expansions you don't want by includeing game changeing items to the regular game though the expansions.
HL2 = I like
Hopefully as the first two get ported to consoles the major bugs will get fixed and the games will run better on PCs. The best thing about PC games is that bugs get fixed and stuff gets added, ei
Re:Really? (Score:2)
Wait a second here. You can point out the problems with the other three games (btw, I think the Civ IV mem leak was pluged in the latest patch, I haven't had a problem with it lately), but completely leave alone the fact that you need internet connectivity to play HL2? Or the fact that the game seems to load agonizingly slow compared with the other three listed games? I mean, you're talking technical issues that I agree with on the other three accounts, but you have to admit that HL2 has som
Re:Really? (Score:1)
Part of the Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, most of the video games come in fairly large packaging with just a CD. Even the manuals are now in PDF format on the CD. Give me a break. I wanna hold it in my hand and read it.
Third. Most games only make like 50 cents to a couple bucks profit per game, when stuff like stuffed animals (fry's electronics sells them in the same area) make probably 800%-1000% profit. Not much incentive to give shelf space to a product that doesn't make you that much money in the first place.
Re:Part of the Problem (Score:2)
Yes, you're missing something. Profit is calculated based on costs. Profit is determined by dividing the difference of the selling price and the manufacture cost by the manufacture cost. i.e.:
Product Sells for $10, costs $1 to manufacture
($10 - $1)/$1 * 100% = 900% profit.
PC - Console - PC (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:PC - Console - PC (Score:3, Interesting)
But there is also a long-term gradual slide towards the death of gaming. The slide is caused by, ironically, technological advance.
Each game must look better than the previous one, and that means more detailed 3D models. 3D models are slow and difficult to make, and the time needed goes up exponentially
Fraction of the shelf in what store? (Score:3, Interesting)
I suppose all of that would change if the PC Games would distribute in consistently smaller packages.
1/2 of an EB? What? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:1/2 of an EB? What? (Score:2)
Wouldn't a fraction like that make sense in any case? EB, right now, is going to stock games for Xbox, Xbox 360, PS2, Gamecube, GBA, DS and PSP - at a minimum. Most also have some space set aside for DVD movies. If PC games are getting a sixth, or even an eighth, of the shelf space - especially considering the vast number of people who own PS2s and GBAs - then they're probably doing all right...
Sometimes none of the store space (Score:2)
Re:Fraction of the shelf in what store? (Score:1)
What, DVD boxes aren't small enough? What do you want, jewel cases?
Re:Fraction of the shelf in what store? (Score:1)
What, DVD boxes aren't small enough?
True, PC game boxes are smaller than they used to be. They used to be over 8x10 inches (20x25 cm) in size; now they're like double-thick DVD cases, but they're still double-thick, and that extra thickness isn't even taken up by a printed manual.
Re:Fraction of the shelf in what store? (Score:2, Funny)
I didn't know Best Buy owned islands and built stores around them.
Is Piracy really the #1 problem? (Score:1)
Note: I own no consoles and many PC games.
Re:Is Piracy really the #1 problem? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Is Piracy really the #1 problem? (Score:1, Insightful)
Pirated games give people the chance to try-before-they-buy in a way no demo can.
So, if you produce shitty games, piracy means people can't be marketed into buying your product. It actually has to appeal to them on valid merits.
From TFA (Score:5, Insightful)
It's also a good way to get people to not play your game. It's always the "big bad pirates" who are stealing money from the game manufacturers. The industry doesn't want to admit that they're churning out a lof of junk lately, so let's jump on the bandwagon of "It's those damn pirate kids" to save face.
I haven't bought a new PC game in about a year (I've purchased a couple "older" games now that they're in the <$20 market)- and I haven't pirated any, either. I've bought console games, though. When the PC market comes out with something that's worth playing, I'll probably be first in line. Where are the X-Coms, or the RTSes that actually break new ground? Where are the adventure games with their beautiful story arcs? Hell, Deus Ex was a phenonmenal game, and I could see a variation on that (new story, but a similar engine) selling well- something that actually draws the player in. What about stuff like Dungeon Keeper? That game was a blast, it spawned a sequel- and then dropped off the face of the earth. What about Worm- before the 3D crap that made it so much more irritating to play? What about the Baldur's Gate-style RPGs? Hell, Icewind Dale was somewhere between Diablo and BG, and that game was loads of fun. It had it's own feel to it, even though the interface was almost an exact copy of BG.
It's sad that the days of off-the-wall games that sucked a gamer in seem to be gone in the PC World. Instead we get direct sequels that don't offer much more than a smoother engine or prettier graphics. We don't get the stuff that either offers an incredible story or that brings about something "new". And as the gaming market ages, that's going to keep being a problem- to keep the "veteran" gamers around, they're going to have to draw them in with something that they haven't seen before.
Re:From TFA (Score:1)
They didn't sell very well, so game companies stopped making them.
If you are in possession of some strange new marketing scheme that would allow game companies to dig their way out of debt by making more of these fun but unprofitable games, I'd love to hear it.
Re:From TFA (Score:1)
In the clearance bin because noone bought them. Seriously, you can pick Perimeter and Arena Wars up paying a tenner for both together. The uninspired clones and sequels fall in price much slower.
And is it just me or are PC games getting buggier and buggier? I mean, XBTF was very buggy and prone to crashing but X3 can't even install without patching. Severe mission scripting bugs are common even in high profile games. Bugs take forever to fix
Re:From TFA (Score:2)
Re:From TFA (Score:2)
Re:From TFA (Score:2)
Re:From TFA (Score:2)
Irrational Games, eh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Bah. PC gaming won't die..... (Score:2)
Reach out and touch someone (Score:1)
One genre I don't see playing well with consoles any time soon (unless maybe the Revolution's input changes this) is RTS.
Try Advance Wars: Dual Strike for Nintendo DS to see what is possible. True, it isn't real-time, but the control scheme would be the same.
Re:Reach out and touch someone (Score:2)
Small Fraction (Score:1)
Make up your mind!
who cares about store shelves? (Score:1)
Meh, I buy/download every game I can via direct2drive [direct2drive.com]. Hopefully, in the future, there won't even be a tiny little shelf for PC games. And as more consoles go online, in the future game stores themselves might go extinct. And, maybe they'll even drop the prices due to lower cost to distribute... ye
who cares about rural customers? (Score:2)
Hopefully, in the future, there won't even be a tiny little shelf for PC games.
Then how will those 10 percent of people who cannot get broadband in their area [slashdot.org] buy PC games without having to pay $100,000 for urban real estate? And because it would eliminate the used market, what if I want to buy a game, but the publisher has stopped selling it so that it doesn't cannibalize [wikipedia.org] sales of the publisher's new title?
Nonsense (Score:1)
Maybe it's different in the US but here in Europe (or at least Germany) the PC is still going strong.
*= EB Games tends to allocate very little space to th
Consoles losing their advantages.... (Score:2)
When I bought my PS1 it was WAY better than playing games on a PC, because:
1) It plugged into your TV,
2) It hardly took up any space,
3) It had no fans, ran cool, and hardly made any noise.
With the Xbox and PS2, they both have loud fans and are much bigger. I remember being very disappointed to hear that fan when I turned on my PS2 for the first time.
With the increasing popularity
Re:Consoles losing their advantages.... (Score:2)
What I really want is for someone to come out with a PC FPS that includes a 4-player splitscreen multiplayer mode, and 4 USB keyboards+mice. UT2004, 4 players+bots, one PC, one TV? AWESOME.
Too bad no one's done that yet, AFAIK
Re:Consoles losing their advantages.... (Score:2)
Anyone who's more than mildly in to DDR must eventually hook a PC up to their TV and start using Stepmania or something similar. Hundreds of songs available online (all illegally, I'm sure, but oh well), no more swapping discs in and out of the PS2 to play this song or that one.
I used to do that all the time when I went to the local community college and had a friend who lived in the dorms. I would bring my laptop and PS2 controller to USB adapter [lik-sang.com], and another friend would bring his metal DDR pads. W
Where are single-screen multiplayer PC games? (Score:2)
but it largely has to do with consoles losing their unique advantages.
Unfortunately, affordable multiplayer in the same room is still a console advantage.
With the increasing popularity of Media PCs, more and more people have their PCs plugged into their TVs
So where are the four-player shared-screen PC-native titles? Why don't more PC games have a split-screen or overhead- or side-view mode that takes input from four USB gamepads? Where are the equivalents of Bomberman, Mario Kart, Smash Bros., etc
Re:Where are single-screen multiplayer PC games? (Score:2)
Hopefully the answer is obvious: there is zero customer demand.
Notice that you only pointed out Nintendo titles for your examples. Consider some non-splitscreen, single-player Nintendo fare, and try to come up with PC equivalents. You can't do it- there's nothing similar to Paper Mario, Metroid, Zelda, or even Resident Evil4.
There is minimal intersection between the
Catch-22 (Score:2)
Gaming consoles already [have single-screen multiplayer], and do that well, for a lot cheaper. And while Media Center PC's are getting a lot more popular, they are not THAT popular yet...
Media Center PCs aren't popular yet because there isn't a killer app for them yet, and publishers don't want to develop and market a killer app for Media Center PCs because there aren't enough of them. Are independent shareware games the only way out?
PCs cant lose (Score:3)
The cpu power per dollar is highest on wintel platforms due to the huge market. Thats part of the reason why Apple went to get Intel chips. You buy one machine and it does many other things, PVR, game machine, computer, dvd player... a given nonx86 console would be hard pressed to match what a PC can do... for the price. PCs also have the largest install base. Since no one company dominates the platform, its future is also guaranteed (I know MSFT dominates the OS market, but doesnt OWN the PC). So building games for the PC makes sense. Its really building a game for one console, and not for the PC that makes little sense. So far PCs also have the best array of available controls, from wheels and joysticks to the ubiquitous keyboard and mouse for FPS games. Make a good game for a PC... it'll sell. PCs are also more cutting edge. The best graphic cards and CPUs are available for it.
I guess the only console that can beat the PC is something thats really specialized for its game genres or one that is based on a PC (the older xbox comes to mind). Even that would be more expensive than walmart/dell/beige box PCs.
PC Games have one big problem... (Score:3, Insightful)
From the article:
And when the newest PC hardware hits, game developers can start taking advantage of it immediately.
That's usually too fast. When I buy a console game it works. It's been tested.
Buy a PC game and fear the BUG. In the back of your mind you are going to be wondering how far you can go before the BUG bites you on your @$$. And then you wait for the patch.
Re:PC Games have one big problem... (Score:1)
Re:PC Games have one big problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
This was a known bug in the PC version which was patched and could be addressed in a non-patched copy using the command console but unfortunately those with the xbox version were left screwed.
Re:PC Games have one big problem... (Score:2)
Re:PC Games have one big problem... (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
They've released another game since I bought WoW?
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
In my opinion, there's three reasons why gaming is down, and especially PC gaming:
1) Consoles are actually good alternatives to PC games now, both from a technical and game-type perspective.
2) MMORPGs.
3) Copy protection that's more like play-protection.
None of it is down to piracy.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
As far as I'm aware, none of the methods used to calculate current PC game spending would have taken into account that hidden EUR160.
P.
Re: (Score:2)
Precisely! (Score:2)
When you buy a console, you keep it for four-five years and buy games for it that are clearly labeled.
This simplicity is why the console wins.
Joe Sixpack don't wanna know about ATI Radeon Atomic SuperXXL 991213000. Or whatever they call 'em nowadays.
Why PC Gaming has struggled (Score:1)
When many of the industry's most popular games are available on Xbox and Playstation, why on earth would I spend $600 for a top of the line video card and at least another $1500 on a gaming system, when I can play the same game on an Xbox that costs less than $200?
Consoles are better for most people (Score:2, Insightful)
1. It's easier for PC games to be pirated, so it's less lucrative an enterprise.
2. Unlike a console, where every unit is identical hardware, PCs have infinitely many hardware combinations. It's impossible to test for them all. It's also impossible for non-technical / non-computer people to clearly find the answer to the question, "can my computer run this game well?"
3. Unlike a console, where you just put
Re:Consoles are better for most people (Score:2)
1. It's easier for PC games to be pirated, so it's less lucrative an enterprise.
There's this thing called "the chip", available for PS2 and Xbox. Costs around 10 bucks, already installed. Lots and lots of people get it, and afterwards pirating games is even easier than it is for PC. Funnily enough, it IS near to impossible to pirate GameCube games; by your logic, they should outsell PS2 and Xbox games in droves, right?
3. Unlike a console, where you just put in the game and turn on th
Re:Consoles are better for most people (Score:2)
Boneheaded? Such as install a 2006 game, for example?
Just like Toyotas are cheaper that Ferraris. And for pretty much the same reasons.
Comparing PC gaming to a Ferrari does disservice to the PC game market.
Ferraris are a failure as a car, just like the Space Shuttle is a failure as an airplane. Certainly, it is drastically better on several obvious metrics, but the relatively low importan
Easy question (Score:3, Informative)
Computer with best available ATI card and only a single 3.2 ghz processor - $1000+.
Computer manufacturers are not receiving a cut of every piece of software used on the system (unlike MS and the Xbox or Sony and the PS).
Re:Easy question (Score:1)
Re:Easy question (Score:2)
Too much money, Too many hassles (Score:1)
Re:Too much money, Too many hassles (Score:2)
In college, I had a 486. I regularly bought games that I could never get to run on my computer. I would say that my failure rate was nearly 50%, on a Dell, which was then still an up-and-coming manufacturer.
I think you make some valid points about PC components being much more e
Re:Too much money, Too many hassles (Score:1)
Re:Too much money, Too many hassles (Score:2)
A decade ago, you were in the era that was borderline DOS.
Graphic capabilities in that era were *NOT* standard, even under Windows 95. Some graphic cards supported 3D (classified as Prototypes) and others did not. Some graphic cards supported VESA 2.0, while others were VESA 1.x. Don't get me started on the whole slew of drivers required for pre-VESA cards.
Next, you have s
Maybe PC Games Suck (Score:1)
Neverwinter Nights + what happened to 2D games? (Score:2)
Worse, with their stupid "copy protection" i have to insert the FREAKING CD to play!
Then, I got stuck because now I don't know what to do, and there's nowhere (in the game, I mean) I can get hints from. I just have this "to do list" so generic it drives me mad. "Collect all the words of power". WTF? I know that, but where's the NEXT one dammit!
And why don't the companies release 2D games for the PC? And I mean those that keep selling in portables (
proxy for the console future (Score:2)
I'll be damned if (Score:2)
Look, I'm an adult who plays my share of games. I pay actual, real money for them. I'm what you call an honest customer. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a Starforce-esque DRM scheme take over my computer just to play a game. And I'll be damned if I have to log in every time I want to play a single-player game on a computer that I might not even want to have connected to the Intarwe
Re:I'll be damned if (Score:2)
In fact, I would definately be willing to do that. So would every one of my friends who have a real interest in gaming.
Box sizes (Score:2)
The PC Game packages have since moved to smaller boxes and guess what...they take up less space.
Like a pheonix rising from the imaginary ashes... (Score:2)
Then let them die! (Score:2)
No way but up? (Score:2)
So.. using the same logic, if the cubs havent won the series in 20 years, is pretty sure they will do now!
Heres a clue to get more shelf space, stop pricing the 3d cards at $500 expecting everyone to buy them, stop forcing PC users to buy those cards by pushing de
Re:No way but up? (Score:2)
WHAT!
You nearly made complete sense there, unfortunatly that one part made none.
make games playable from the HD with no disk might be a good and valid point, however no sane person who knows anything about computers would want to have a game playable off of the dvd, ick, i'm just hoping ms aint screwed the xbox 360 by making the hd optional, please developers ignore this, make abox 360 games require the hd, or at least run CRIPPLED without it.
Re:No way but up? (Score:2)
Why? w
Just Consider the Figures (Score:2)
Okay, I admit, I'm a console gamer, former disgruntled PC gamer, I tend to like the style of games that come out on consoles, so I'm a bit biased. But from about 1999-2003, I had a PC (I'm back to Mac for good now), and tried to get into the PC gaming genre. This was probably the most frusterating experience of my life. Every year, I found I was outclassed and couldn't run the latest games. To keep up, I would have had to throw $150 at a video card every year and a half, and $300 on a new motherboard/proces
Re:Technological Advantage? (Score:2)
Combined with the fact that more and more games are simply unplayable thanks to "copy protection," yeah, I've switched over to consoles too. Console games just work. I've had enough games crap out on me on the PC over "copy protection" that I've just given up on them.
I can't play WarCraft III any more. It decided it was pirated, and now my Collector's Edition CD just won't run. I've had my CD-ROM drivers get destroyed by some over-zealous "copy protection" scheme. I've just given up on dealing with "
Re:Technological Advantage? (Score:2)
Totally. These days, when I decide that I want to play some game that I bought two or three years ago, I usually just BitTorrent it.
It's easier than hunting down all 3-5 discs, which are probably not all in the same place. Besides, at least one of them is probably scratched beyond usability. Plus, then I don't have to keep the damn disc out on my desk for easy access; I can just mount the image with Daemon Tools and go.
The only down side
Re:Technological Advantage? (Score:2)
I don't remember for sure, but it was my understanding that Halo, at least, could be made to use the Goldeneye/Perfect Dark controls. You just have to go in to your profile setup and change your controls. I just turned on the inverted look settings, though.
I do know that at least one of the later Bond games didn't have the Goldeneye controls, and I also know that kept most of my friends from playing