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A 1.2 Petabyte Hard Drive? 431

Angry_Admin writes "Rather than spend millions of dollars for an array of hard drives when you can have all that storage on just one drive? A story at P2P.net US inventor Michael Thomas, owner of Colossal Storage, says he's the first person to solve non-contact optical spintronics which will in turn ultimately result in the creation of 3.5-inch discs with a million times the capacity of any hard drive - 1.2 petabytes of storage, to be exact. According to the article, In the past, data storage has only been able to orient the direction a field of electrons as they move around a molecule, Thomas said. "But now there's a way to rotate or spin the individual electrons that make up, or surround, the molecule," he says. He expects a finished product to be on the market in about four to five years, adding the cost would probably be in the range of $750 each."
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A 1.2 Petabyte Hard Drive?

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  • A million times? (Score:5, Informative)

    by slavemowgli ( 585321 ) on Thursday February 16, 2006 @11:45PM (#14739497) Homepage
    Um... 1.2 PB is definitely *not* "a million times the capacity of any hard drive", unless you're still stuck with 1.2 GB hard drives.

  • Re:no thanx! (Score:5, Informative)

    by GuyverDH ( 232921 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:19AM (#14739622)
    I don't think the poster was referring to the simple/slow flash technology of our usb fobs.

    There's a whole other side to flash technology where large scale, ultra high-speed drives are being made of some very cool flash technology.

    Enhancing that so that storage capacities approximate today's largest hard drives, with the speeds that these bad ass flash components can provide, would be great.
  • All your eggs... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mononoke ( 88668 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:19AM (#14739624) Homepage Journal
    ...in one basket.

    No. Thank you.

  • by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:32AM (#14739684)
    Spin is quantized, either 1/2 up or down. Electrons also can't have all 4 quantum numbers the same, so electron pairs have one +1/2 spin and one -1/2 spin. You can't change that so long as electrons are Fermions.

    This guy is trying to tell people he can control electron spin? That would be quite a trick.

  • by Xiroth ( 917768 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:33AM (#14739698)
    I'm sorry, but this is completely wrong. A positron and an electron both have spin + or - 1/2, the difference is in their charge. You can't 'spin it too far' - that doesn't even make sense on a quantum-physical level, unless there have been amazing leaps that I somehow missed in recent years.
  • by 4D6963 ( 933028 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:34AM (#14739702)
    "Can you imagine world without data compression?"

    Can you imagine world where it takes 12 hours to download all the images of the latest cyber girl of the month?

  • Pure BS (Score:5, Informative)

    by scheme ( 19778 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:36AM (#14739713)
    An electron has 720' rotational symmetry (see: Brief History of Time) so if they spin it too far, it'll become a positron. Since they've no way of detecting the rotation of an electron (it's a point charge) other than seeing if it explodes when it strikes another electron, this could definitely be an interesting - if short-lived - storage mechanism.

    If this happened, you'd see random explosions all the time. Electron - positron conversion hasn't been detected yet so a simple rotation is definitely not going to be converting electrons to positrons. Hell, if it did we'd have antimatter bombs floating around all over the place.

  • by PhoenixLE ( 955176 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:46AM (#14739743)
    Wow. Just SO wrong. Where did you get this crap? Electron spin state IS detectable, and that isn't anything new. ESR (Electron Spin Resonance) operates much like NMR which observes shifts in the energy states of nuclei when their spin state is altered to align with an induced magnetic field. Electrons are a point charge, but since the charge is rotating a magnetic field is generated that can be operated upon and observed, allowing quantification of the electrons spin state. Flipping the spin state of an electron causing an antimatter explosion or some such? We had better hope not, because we'd already be in a might bit of trouble. I suggest you go grab a general PChem Quantum textbook and read up on the principles of quantum mechanics. Though this 720 degrees of rotation stuff is kinda amusing in a comical fashion :P
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:56AM (#14739806)
    > where are the holographic DVDs?

    Here:

    http://newtech.aurum3.com/content/view/58/18/ [aurum3.com]
  • by ScriptedReplay ( 908196 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @12:57AM (#14739808)
    Worse yet, he's saying electrons in a molecule have randomly-aligned spins that he can control. Someone failed baby Quantum Mechanics here and made the /. front page for it.

    (to nitpick on your post - you can have an electron pair with both Sz components equal - in a triplet state; you get the right commutation rules from an antisymmetric spatial part; anyway, in principle there exist states where all electrons in an atom would have the same Sz number, but good luck on even creating one of them, nevermind stability; as you said, you need different quantum numbers and that eventually means orbital ones - which would yield highly excited states)
  • Re:Solidisks (Score:2, Informative)

    by RecycledElectrons ( 695206 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @01:26AM (#14739924)
    > I would also question the usefulness of the proposed
    > system. I am not confident you could change the spin of
    > anything at that scale for any useful length of time.
    > Too many variables and too much "noise". If you want to
    > change a property, it needs to be a property that can
    > "latch" in whatever state you place it and have no
    > trivial way of unlatching itself without significant
    > input. Otherwise, your data will degrade very rapidly.

    I completely agree - DRAM is absurd. We should have never tried it because it degrades and has to be refreshed constantly. SRAM makes a lot more sense, but not as much sense as FLASH for our RAM.

    Of course, DRAM is orders of magnitude cheaper at the same performance level, but that never bothered me. I go with what makes sense to me at the moment.

    Andy Out!

    Have you shot an RIAA member today?
  • Re:Solidisks (Score:5, Informative)

    by jd ( 1658 ) <imipak@yahoGINSBERGo.com minus poet> on Friday February 17, 2006 @02:00AM (#14740097) Homepage Journal
    I was talking strictly non-volatile. If you want to talk about volatile RAM, like DRAM, where you are going to refresh the contents every few nanoseconds, degradation of contents - provided it is slower than your refresh rate - is completely unimportant. In fact, degradation of content is precisely WHY you have to refresh the content. In fact, fast degradation is a GOOD thing for volatile RAM. It means you can change the contents extremely quickly. Completely the opposite requirement of non-volatile storage, where retention is the key consideration.


    Volatile RAM also has to remain powered at all times. Again, this is a GOOD thing. Old-fashioned "core" memories could retain data for a hundred years plus, which made rebooting somewhat of a lengthy process. You would not, for example, build a CPU where the internal registers used "core" memory or any other form of non-volatile memory. At least, not unless you were very drunk.


    On the other hand, if you wanted to replace a hard drive, DRAM is next to useless. Sure, you can have a stack of NiCad batteries in parallel to keep the memory going, provided you remember to replace/recharge them as needed. Wouldn't help you, though, if you had a short. For mass storage, where the contents absolutely needs to be retained for a long period of time, you absolutely do NOT want to use DRAM.


    When you get right down to it, though, if the CPU had a gig or four of register-speed RAM on board, you wouldn't really want DRAM for anything. Main memory is only useful because it's substantially cheaper than register-speed RAM and it wouldn't be trivial to build a processor big enough to hold that much memory. Main memory, for a long time now, has been treated as little more than a cache for virtual memory, where all the real storage is on disk, and as a dumping ground for what memory the processor does have. If CPUs held enough, and/or mass storage was fast enough, main memory would go the way of the dodo. It's a relic that persists only because the alternatives are too limited right now.

  • Re:Just A Second (Score:4, Informative)

    by Frank T. Lofaro Jr. ( 142215 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @02:23AM (#14740190) Homepage
  • by scheme ( 19778 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @03:19AM (#14740393)
    What is to say that we don't have a lot of very tiny explosions all the time? Cosmic/background radiation, anyone?

    The direction that cosmic radiation comes from can be identified. If election -> positron conversions happened, we would be seeing 1 MeV xray/gamma radiation coming from everywhere. People aren't dying of radiation sickness in large numbers, therefore rotating an electron 360 degrees doesn't result in its conversion to a positron.

  • by Moraelin ( 679338 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @04:27AM (#14740590) Journal
    While all you wrote is indeed insightful and true and very relevant, one doesn't even have to go that far to see why his "invention" is just bogus crap. The reason it won't work is quantum mechanics. Some basic knowledge of chemistry also helps, in that it's just applied quantum mechanics.

    I'll dumb the explanation back a bit for the benefit of those (tbh, myself included) who don't have quantum physics as their day job. I.e., if you're a physicist, don't flip out if the terminology isn't just right or the exact equations are missing.

    The thing is, the available states for electrons on a given "orbit" are a finite and well defined set. No two electrons may have the same state. I.e., if an atom has 2 electrons (helium), they can't both have the same orbit and state.

    The inner layers already have the full set, so there's no way to flit an electron's spin there and still have it stay in that orbit: that would require it to have the same state as another electron there, which is strictly impossible.

    The outer layer may have an incomplete set, but that's why mollecules and crystals form. E.g., the reason you find hydrogen as H2 (or bonded to other atoms, of course) and not as individual H atoms, is that they basically share their electrons to form a complete set. Or when you have a mollecule like CH4 (methane), each Hydrogen atom basically gets an electron from the Carbon atom to form its complete set, while the Carbon atom gets an electron from each Hydrogen atom because it needs 4 more to have the full set.

    So you could only flip individual electrons from the outer layer if you kept those atoms as free atoms, not part of a mollecule or crystal. Otherwise, again, he'd try to create a situation where two electrons have the same position and state.

    So how's he going to achieve that? The only atoms that stay free like that are those which, like say Helium or Neon, already have a full outer set, so they're useless there.
  • by Y2 ( 733949 ) on Friday February 17, 2006 @04:34PM (#14744886)
    I'll dumb the explanation back a bit for the benefit of those (tbh, myself included) who don't have quantum physics as their day job. I.e., if you're a physicist, don't flip out if the terminology isn't just right or the exact equations are missing.

    May I "flip out" (good one) if you're just plain wrong?

    If what you've written were correct, ordinary magnetic materials could not exist. We would not see Zeeman splitting of spectral lines.

    To bring it down to plain chemistry terms, think about molecular nitrogen and oxygen. How did both of those molecules manage to form "its complete set" when one has more electrons than the other? Even though the electrons are paired up in the molecule, there are still available unfilled states.

    I do happen to lean toward the belief that this "invention" in TFA is bunk, but not for your reasons.

Stellar rays prove fibbing never pays. Embezzlement is another matter.

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