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ReactOS Code Audit 217

reub2000 writes to tell us that in response to talk of "tainted" code within ReactOS Steven Edwards, ReactOS and Wine developer, has called for a complete audit of the entire source tree in addition to procedure and policy changes. From the article: "One final note, this audit of the code is going to take a long time. It could take years, but it will happen, this project will come out better than it was before. I don't believe anything anyone has done while working on this project was really wrong. Every decision has three possibilities, being moral, ethical and or legal. Sometimes the law in itself is unethical and immoral. If people made mistakes and there was a violation of the law, I question the justice of the law and or anyone that would try to prosecute any of the developers who just want the freedom to learn and create a more free system."
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ReactOS Code Audit

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  • by RLiegh ( 247921 ) * on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @06:09PM (#14620544) Homepage Journal
    This audit will take YEARS, according to their statement. I think that's optimistic, myself; by the time that they clean-room implement the code they have to audit out, no one will be interested in working on it AND it will be unusable due to MS's Software Patents.

    It's a shame; ReactOS came so far, and got so close (networking was almost ready) and now it's DOA.

    It will be missed.
  • by erikdalen ( 99500 ) <erik.dalen@mensa.se> on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @06:16PM (#14620618) Homepage
    Why not just release it from a country with saner ip laws that allow reverse-enigineering made by a single person? /Erik
  • by Per Wigren ( 5315 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @06:19PM (#14620643) Homepage
    Moral but not ethical: "You may not work on this project if you like anal sex."

    (yes, this is a joke but unfortunatly most people seem to mix up "moral" with "christian/puritanian fucked up double standard bigot moral". The best thing with moral is that you can have your own. There is no Real Moral(tm).)
  • wine (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jlebrech ( 810586 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @06:23PM (#14620697) Homepage
    More wine developers for us.

    If they all shift to wine coding in the mean time, im sure their will be great benefits.

  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @06:37PM (#14620863)
    If you lie to protect innocents from harm, you are probably being moral but unethical.

    If you tell the truth (because you always tell the truth) and a bunch of innocent people are killed or tortured, then you are probably being ethical but immoral.

    Defense Lawyers seem like a pretty good example. They ethically must defend people they may believe are guilty. If they defend poorly on purpose, they are being unethical. I believe (IANAL) that the prosecution must reveal all evidence to the defense but the defense is not required to reveal evidence that would prove guilt if they discover it. I think it would be unethical for them to reveal proof of guilt (and they might be disbarred for doing so) and I also believe it would be immoral for them to do just that.

    Since the area of ethics is sometimes called moral philosophy they are pretty entwined.

    Morals are often tied with sex. If you have 5 partners who all know about each other, you may be viewed as ethical but immoral.

    Both morality and ethics are intimately tied to culture. Some acts which are immoral in one culture are moral in others.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @06:41PM (#14620910)
    Theoritically, wouldn't this be a good option to get "Windows" running on OS x86 ? Not really Windows, but I imagine it would be easier for OSS programmers to add support for EFI to this software, and give MacIntel people a Windows compatible option. At least until someone figures out how to boot the "real" Windows on the new Macs.
  • by Capitalist1 ( 127579 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @07:07PM (#14621212)
    Ethics is a field of study in philosophy. "Ethical" describes something that is related to a particular philosophy of ethics. Asking "is this ethical" is only asking whether or not there is some defined standard or view of ethics by which the idea or action might be judged.

    Morality is a specific instance of an ethics. Something is moral if it is acceptable in or follows from the view of ethics in question, and immoral if it is unacceptable or violates that code in some way.

    In short, "ethical" says that something pertains to *some* specific philosophical stance. "Moral" is a judgement based on a particular ethical stance.
  • by wootest ( 694923 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @07:09PM (#14621241)
    Well, that would mean they'd have to 'officially' possess the leaked code, which would mean Microsoft's lawyers would be all over them at the drop of a hat.
  • Re:taint (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Luctius ( 931144 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @08:11PM (#14621733)
    Yep, and we don't need Linux because we've got minix....
  • by Wizzmer ( 862755 ) on Wednesday February 01, 2006 @09:38PM (#14622265)
    This is another good reason why the EU shouldn't accept Microsoft's offer to share their server protocols source code with third party devs. If you look at the *specifications* and build something you are way better off than having looked at the source itself. If you look at the source you are "tainted" for life.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday February 02, 2006 @12:37AM (#14623247)
    "To ReactOS people reading this: I do think we should look at staging releases from a country with different reverse-engineering laws, though. Certain precedents have been set in US law that do not apply elsewhere."

    I'm no expert on copyright law (yet) or its restrictions on reverse-engineering. However, I would think making a release in another country won't help. It's the regulation of the ACT of reverse-engineering that you imply causes problems. Where the end product is released is irrelevant.

    A robber can't claim immunity from prosecution because he robbed a bank in jurisdiction A and was apprehended while spending the money in jurisdiction B. It doesn't matter if B recognizes robbery as a criminal offense or not. The robbery was committed in A. If robbery is illegal in A, he'll be tried for robbery.

    Similarly, unless ReactOS moves all its reverse-engineering activities to more friendly locations, then those individuals doing reverse-engineering in the U.S. are bound by the regulations for that activity. Releasing the finished product somewhere else does not relinquish the legal obligation that U.S. developers have to follow U.S. regulations for reverse-engineering.
  • by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @02:34AM (#14623739)
    The only caveat to the point that you make is that I believe that since the DMCA copyright is a criminal offense instead of a civil one (in the vast majority of cases).

    The "clean room' procedure is what enable clone pc's to exist in the first place when compaq cloned the bios with the two engineer method to make their reversing watertight, which it was.

    It's nice to try and do that way, but not necessary. I think the big issue for single developers is not so much legally reverse engineering (which is still legal to the chagrin of many ignorant and selfish people) is not so much being right, as having the money to defend themselves in court.

    So if you and a buddy "clean room something" that's only half the job. The other half is having money in the bank to cover future possible legal expenses.

    I think the lesson we have seen often on slashdot is big corporations "bullying" some little guy who for all intense and purposes is legally right with what they are doing, but the corporation (or their hired suits who need to justify their salary) are the ones who are actually wrong.

    Also, I would consider both the DMCA and CTEA immoral laws for a variety of reasons.
     
  • Re:TFA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ciroknight ( 601098 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @03:20AM (#14623879)
    Oh hell yes it can, it can be entirely re-compiled into C, but it may not look exactly as it did before it met the compiler.

    The compiler simply is a translator that turns a human-parsable programming language into a machine parsable instruction code. That being said, a translation in the other direction is just as easy.

    However, compilers these days are more advanced than the golden old days of computing, and will do crazy things to optimize code (unrolling loops, replacing ineffecient operations with more effecient ones [i = i + 1; -> i++;]). Some of these operatons can't be reliably undone (especially the case with inline functions and macros, because often the code compiler will apply the inline, and then realize there's a way to make it more effecient, thus making the code slightly different than the inline function and causing it to not be reversable), at least without a little human interaction.

    And there are open source code decompilers available for a number of languages (for C, as an example, there's DCC [uq.edu.au]. Just don't go decompiling Windows and copying and pasting the code back into ReactOS ;)
  • Re:taint (Score:2, Insightful)

    by eatjello ( 767686 ) <{ude.iiawah} {ta} {nedylj}> on Thursday February 02, 2006 @04:36AM (#14624058)
    Games, my friend. It is the only reason to run windows.
  • by Rocketship Underpant ( 804162 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @08:01AM (#14624589)
    "The best thing with moral is that you can have your own. There is no Real Moral(tm)"

    That's a tough argument to win. Can I kill you and take your stuff, so long as I decide it's allowed by "my own" moral system?

    It's much easier to defend the idea that morality is absolute, starting with axiomatic principles like human self-ownership. It's all about how we respect the essential rights of our fellow humans. In fact, you can't even defend the idea of subjective morality effectively without this axiom.
  • by Per Wigren ( 5315 ) on Thursday February 02, 2006 @10:58AM (#14625737) Homepage
    What, an anti-Christian joke on Slashdot? I'm so surprised that the most hated group on Slashdot--Christians--is the butt of constant off-topic jokes and stereotype ridicule!

    If it makes you feel better I can say that I think that most other religions have even worse morals. :)
    And of course this wasn't a stab at any individual christian but rather a stab at those who In My Humble Opinion DO have fucked up double standard bigot morals, and they are too many to ignore...

    To make you feel even better I also think that atheism often is bigotry. I'm a convinced agnostic. :) I may be a believer (in that there is something more) but I think that all organized religion is a scam and too often leads to bigotry and brainwash.

UNIX is hot. It's more than hot. It's steaming. It's quicksilver lightning with a laserbeam kicker. -- Michael Jay Tucker

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