Berners-Lee Says Internet Will Make Kids Creative 274
ErikPeterson submitted a story where Tim Berners-Lee (if you need explanation, you're reading the wrong site) is interviewed about how on-line life will make our children more creative than us. He makes various points and predictions about what the internet will do.
Presentation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Presentation (Score:2)
Re:Presentation (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Presentation (Score:2)
Re:Presentation (Score:3, Funny)
Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web.
I CALL BULLSHIT!
We all know Al Gore invented teh interweb! [sethf.com]
Re:Presentation (Score:4, Insightful)
Please, please explain something to me about these hyphenated names. I live in the midwest, so we don't see much of this silliness. But please indulge me:
Lets says an offspring or Berners-Lee marries an offspring of another hypenated name family, let's call them Smith-Jones. Would the last name of their children be Smith-Jones-Berners-Lee? This could of course go on forever, until names are so long that we would need smaller fonts or wider paper. Seriously. Ridiculous.
How do you figure our whose name goes first? By height? Alphabetically?
And also, I believe that anything that increases your kids chance of getting the shit kicked out of him on the playground, whether it is giving him a ridiculous first name, or a hyphenated last name, is cruel. On the other hand, maybe if I have more coffee, I will stop acting like such an asshole.
Re:Presentation (Score:2)
It's written (with names removed because I don't have his permission to bandy his name about on slashdot for karma points):
-
If he doesn't thank his parents daily that he was not given a middle name then he probably should thanking t
Re:Presentation (Score:2)
It is written like:
$GIVENNAME $SIRNAME1 $SIRNAME2-$SIRNAME3
By the way. The standard policy is to concatinate the name with the mother's name first and the fathers name second. Thus, the standard sirname is always last nomatter how much crazyness has happened in the family tree.
Re:Presentation (Score:4, Informative)
Creativity is fueled by the complexity of one's environment. Developmental studies on children are pretty clear on that. The more pieces you have to recombine, the more likely you are to recombine them in original and interesting ways. The internet just allows people to avoid the work behind recombining of things in ways that others have already done so, while still providing the benefit of learning the results.
Please, please explain something to me about these hyphenated names. I live in the midwest, so we don't see much of this silliness. But please indulge me
Indulgence granted. When two people with separate names get married and one decides to hyphenate, she generally places the new name at the end of her original surname so as not to disrupt alphabetization. For children, this results in having parents with two distinct and separate last names, and the child generally chooses between them whenever they decide to have a professional life.
Marriage between two people with hyphenated names is generally cause for negotiation. There are no hard rules on whose name gets changed when you get married. Usually the female will drop both of her last names (hyphen included) and take the male's pair. Sometimes she won't bother changing her name at all. I haven't heard of any men taking a woman's hyphenated name, but it does happen for normal names, so it's not impossible. I have heard of couples who just dump the entire mess and invent their own new, legal last name.
So the answer to your question is that it's entirely up to the couple to make it as complicated as they feel appropriate.
Re:Presentation (Score:5, Insightful)
What do you think is better:
a) Slashdot teenager style:
Tim Berners-Lee (if you need explanation, you're reading the wrong site) is interviewed
b) Profesional looking style:
Tim Berners-Lee [wikipedia.org] is interviewed.
It's your choice.
Re:Presentation (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Presentation (Score:3, Funny)
And... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:And... (Score:3, Funny)
Well let's educate just in case (Score:4, Informative)
Their grammar MIGHT be better than the poster's (Score:3, Informative)
I mean if you're not careful, you'll say stuff like, "I like eating cheeseburgers more than her," when you really mean, "I like eating cheeseburgers more than she does." NOT the same, bunky.
Re:Their grammar MIGHT be better than the poster's (Score:3, Funny)
Well duh, of course not. They'll be thinking of oral sex like everyone else.
Revenge of the English Teacher! Muahahaha! (Score:4, Informative)
Why is it so ridiculous to use object pronouns for objects and subject pronouns for subjects? Is a sentence SUCH AS, "The next generation will be more creative than we are," that pompous?
There is a difference in the meaning of the following two sentences:
1) I like video games more than her.
2) I like video games more than she does.
The first compares my like for video games with my like for her. The second compares my like for video games with her like for video games. These two sentences could be expanded to the following:
1) I like video games more than I like her.
2) I like video games more than she likes video games.
Notice that the subject in the first clause of each sentence is "I". The subject is the one doing the verb. The object is the person or thing on the receiving end of the verb. In the second clause of the first sentence, the object is "her". The action (of liking) is received by "her". However, in the second sentence, "she" is the subject and "video games" are the object. "She" is doing the action (of liking), and "video games" are receiving the action (of liking). Unless there's a good reason not to, you should use the proper pronoun.
I think the issue of splitting infinitives is the same. If you make a habit of splitting them, it will be easy to, for the reader, get confused. Sometimes it sounds strange not to split an infinitive, and in those cases it's best to split them. The biggest "rules" about writing are to be clear, well organized, and persuasive.
Instead of just "asking anybody on the street" about any given topic, maybe you would do better to ask someone who is educated about it. Would you ask "anybody on the street" how to file your taxes or how to sing? If I were the one asking, I'd be a bit more selective. Nothing is lost by using the proper pronoun, unless your goal is "street cred". If that's the case, then by all means you can flame me hairless with Mr. T. English, gangsta slang, l33t w3rdz, or whatever.
Personally though, I think people who want to learn something about grammar should read the "grammar Nazi" posts, and those who don't should just skim over to the next post and let it go at that.
Re:Well let's educate just in case (Score:2)
I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
I guess it will depend per person but I find that reading novels, poetry, and other "classic" lit is what causes ME to be more creative. Yes, that stuff is available online but we all know how cumbersome and uncomfortable it can be to read a novel on a screen.
I believe the Internet will lead to more better global understanding and knowledge (it already has). It will lead to better news reporting to compete with those that read from multiple news sources and have a better understanding of the truth so that sensationalism and out and out lies will likely decrease. Finally, I hope that through this global awareness, political pressure for values and family-first as well as "Great Firewalls" will end as governments (and those that run them) grow to understand and embrace the openness of the world.
Wishful thinking, especially when I believed that MY generation would understand these things and stop things like super right-winged conservative "family values" being pushed through the government. Instead, I am watching as people in America are growing up to want less and less freedom.
I am still hopeful as we didn't grow up 100% immersed in the Internet from birth.
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2)
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly my point. I said that we need governments that understand and embrace global cultures -- including the Internet.
We do NOT want governments that attempt to embrace isolationist practices with "Great Firewalls" and family values legislation.
We want to foster global understanding in our young people. We need to give the human race the opportunities to learn as they wish including how to avoid content t
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2)
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2)
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2)
Classic logical fallacy [wikipedia.org].
A "true American" is somebody born in America. You might consider a supporter of censorship to not be a "true American", but that's not the accepted definition.
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:4, Interesting)
One who supports censorship, and is henceforth against freedom of expression, cannot be considered an American. That is simply because they do not subscribe to American values.
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2, Interesting)
To be "American" is to accept ideals such as democracy, fair justice, but most importantly freedom (be it of the press, faith, speech, expression, etc.).
Judging by the decision to send Judith Miller to jail [bbc.co.uk] I would've thought a more pragmatic definition would be "resident of the Americas".
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
The majority of Americans are uneducated and passive sheep. As long as their Cable TV is there and they can "relax" and live out their worthless lives through people on Reality TV they are fine.
I am not. I am at least speaking out (true, I don't have a huge voice) against what I believe is wrong w/this country. I feel that everyone around me should be educated as to my personal opinions on the injustices of the world including the lo
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
Rock on Brother! This is what America NEEDS to start doing, opening honest and non malicious dialog about our perspectives. I don't have to agree with everything you say, and you don't have to agree with everything I say, but the goal isn't to create converts. It's to gain a more complete and beneficial understanding of a subject. Such a dialog between two educated (or open minded) people,
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder if you actually listen to what other people have to say, and are willing to rethink what YOU believe. And that maybe what you are supporting is not the best for the country. Somehow, I doubt it (though, I doubt you'll admit that).
To be honest, I've stopped arguing with people like you, becau
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2)
Huh? I read stuff on a screen all the time. It's rapidly becomeing my prefered way to read a book, actually... You just need to find a device with a good form factor/screen for you. My current favorite is my Clie TH55, but an LCD desktop screen
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:2)
The complete opposite is happening. Simple rumors get reported as fact and blown entirely out of proportion before they can be quelled.
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
True, the web provide a much more fertile ground for rumours, gossip and flash-mobs of all kinds, but this is only a side-effect - the internet it primarily good for propagating memes.
All memes are spread more easily via the web than ever before, which does mean we get more rumours and gossip-presented-as-fact (bad). However, it also means we get more news, grass-roots activism, whistle-blowers and whack-a-mole style propagation of information certain entities (corporations, governments, et
Yes, well... (Score:2)
Yes, well,we find you to be a bit stuffy.
I kid! I kid!
Re:I hope for better global culture understanding! (Score:3, Insightful)
It's amazing to me that people will immediately believe that I'm talking about GWB when I speak of "family values". Just another FYI, I'm not. I'm talking about ALL politicians trying to ride the conservative family values bandwagon. They include multiple left-wingers including Hilliary and Mrs. Gore.
In order to promote and incr
What the internet will do ? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What the internet will do ? (Score:2)
I suspect this is why boys are often more proficient with computers than girls - girls do not spend as much time learning about their computers through concealing their porn habits. Instead, they focus on the normal, surface visible features that do
Re:What the internet will do ? (Score:2)
Tools? (Score:4, Funny)
#1> Gimie you're IP and Ill hax0r ya rite aw4ay...!
#2> 127.0.0.1
#1 connection reset by peer
Children? (Score:2, Funny)
And also more 40 year old virgins...
At what? (Score:3, Funny)
1. Finding a way to send IM's to each other at school without the admin noticing.
2. Find ways to get to game/pr0n sites that filters block.
3. Find ways to appear working, while actually not.
An interesting story from #3...
A friend of mine was supposed to be doing some work for history at school, but didn't know that the computers had sound. (his work was in another window) He went to stupidvideos.com, and started to play a clip, but then the computer belted out, "Stupid Videos!" and then the sounds of someone doig something stupid. Thinking fast, he hid the taskbar and switched to the window with his work. The teacher never found out who it was playing the stupidvideos.
Re:At what? (Score:3, Funny)
I remember some old Macintosh games where the space bar would pause and pull up a dummy spreadsheet in the game window. It was great feature.
Web effects on memory (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, it hasn't changed the potential of our memory -- but I would speculate that the internet has decreased the amount of information we do keep in our heads. Because information is so easily available, we need to remember less.
Is this a bad thing? Not as long as the Web is available to us. It probably makes us more effective in general, since we have more info at hand. But if the Web were to fail due to apocalypse or something, I think we'd have some cache-ing up to do.
Re:Web effects on memory (Score:2)
I don't care if the internet fails as long as someone has a copy of Wikipedia backed up somewhere
Re:Web effects on memory (Score:2)
Re:Web effects on memory (Score:2)
Re:Web effects on memory (Score:2)
Re:Web effects on memory (Score:2)
I'd hate to be the person who has to reinvent billing mechanisms for pr0n site memberships.
Summary title is misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
I suspect he didn't mean to say that our children will be more creative than we are. Just that we can't foresee what new applications will be developed, and how all that information will be used.
'making kids creative' would be hugely optimistic given what's currently happening on the internet, with most people's publications being either mundane or regurgitation. I suspect most activity on the internet is passive consumption rather than creative.
Big Surprise: Inventor says invention good! (Score:2, Funny)
Who would've thought that the inventor of the World Wide Web would declare it is good for people and society as a whole?
Next up on Slashdot: Authors reviewing their own books!
I wrote a book once. (Score:2)
No (Score:5, Insightful)
The internet is fun, don't get me wrong. But it isn't helping people become more interactive and creative. it is a tool to do work, it is a tool to communicate. it isn't a new friend.
Re:No (Score:2, Interesting)
As long as personal/face-to-face relationships do not suffer, everything in moderation is OK IMHO.
As a web developer/programmer, spending time online reading/downloading source from other sites allows me to be more creative in chosing the best way to code a requirement.
Re:No (Score:3, Funny)
it isn't a new friend.
Ahh! You! hmph... shut up!
Don't listen to him... he's just being mean... you're my BEST friend!
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, it is a tool to communicate. It allows a much wider source of contacts with whom to communicate with. This can stimulate creativity that the activities you mention cannot.
The internet also offers myriad ways for kids to express themselves, to formulate new indeas, and to try them out with their peers. Watching slideshows and movies is far from the only content available on the Web.
Anecdotally, I was interested in a ton of subjects that none of my firends or family members were knowledgeable about. My info source: the library. Not convenient at all (did not go to often, and too far to ride the bike too). Plus, most of the library resources were WAY over my head when I was 10. The internet would have allowed me to explore those subjects easily.
Do I think that the internet should replace traditional socialization? No way in hell. But does it stimulate creativity in ways that traditional socialization does not? You betcha.
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
In general, the internet provides a lot of knowledge (some of it even accurate), but whether that translates to increased creativity is debatable.
In fact, some could argue that the increased availability of knowledge actually limits creativity. ("Why do I ned to come up a with a way to do that? Here's six different ways I found on t
Re:No (Score:2)
Look at Slashdot, for example -- yes, I'm being exposed to knowledge. However, my "creative juices" are stirred when I am faced with viewpoints and information that differ from mine.
Also, the Web is no longer a passive viewing system. You've got blogging, forums, creative content hosting, all kinds of interaction that require creativity.
And I totally agree with you that at times easy availability of
Re: BOOKS and freetime (Score:2)
Books require imagination and help with it to a degree.
Internet is more passive reading as far as html--and hardly any of that is like a book.
I know many teachers, and I can tell you that american kids are LESS creative now than ever before. Internet doesn't have the power to undo the damage everything else causes.
Necessity is the mother of invention. Kids only need to be given 1 lesson: to try to come up with your own activity. Parents only nee
Obvious (Score:3, Insightful)
Father of world wide web says that the world wide web is good for children!
What else is he going to say? I mean I agree with him, but he isn't exactly an impartial observer.
Beware of sharks! (Score:2)
*If* we can keep the predators out there away from them long enough.... sorry for being an incorrigible pessimist, but we all *know* "they're" out there.... How do you give kids enough freedom to become creative *and* keep them safe at the same time?
Re:Beware of sharks! (Score:2)
I disagree. (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I would never let my children or grandchildren post at the GameFAQs forums without proper supervision. It's not about protecting them from the content there, but more the presentation of the content. I support creativity, and to be truly expressive requires intelligence and at least the ability to read and write with clarity and correctness.
All a child will learn at GameFAQs is how to type and compose written works very poorly. While the Internet can help children become very creative, it can also lead them to become lazy in their communication habits. Frankly, I'd be adverse to letting a child, or even a teen, post frequently at forums like those at GameFAQs, just because of how their creativity could be negatively affected.
Re:I disagree. (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't need to go anywhere else. I can look right here on Slashdot. Not only do the various readers of Slashdot (myself included) have spelling and grammar mistakes, the "editors" do as well.
I support creativity, and to be truly expressive requires intelligence and at least the ability to read and write with clarity and correctness.
Are you saying that rap music (full of "foul" language and poor grammar) is not creative? Even though I don't particularly care for that genre, I still respect the artists' creativity.
I'm actually disappointed that you would attempt to forbid a child to read a forum because you disagree with the spelling and grammar content. I don't feel particularly moved to commit spelling and grammar mistakes because others do.
Proper education in the home and at school is what will help to change that behavior. Limiting typing and communications skills is the root of the problem.
I suggest that you PROMOTE discussion forums, chat rooms, etc, as a way to teach typing skills, free thought, and creative writing.
YMMV.
Re:I disagree. (Score:2)
In Stephen Pinker's book, "the Language Instinct", he mentions that some apparantly-wrong grammar used in English subgroups actually has the beneficial effect of increasing the expressive range of the language. For example, "he be working at the shop" seems like a simple error, but in fact most people who use this form of language use "he be working" to indicate that he is working there continuously as a job, whereas "he is working" indicates he happens to b
Re:I disagree. (Score:2)
- "He works at the shop" - present tense, suggests a general state more than an ongoing action.
- "He is working at the shop" - present progressive tense, suggests an ongoing action.
English is quite expressive, it's just that no one knows grammar any more.Re:I disagree. (Score:2)
Stupidity is not creativity. (Score:2)
Libraries & creativity (Score:5, Insightful)
Smart & creative kids use the current environment of social structure to get to the information they want, or the tools they want. A library is one of those tools. The internet only makes it easier to access a lot more less structures information.
What the net probably does, is make it less boring for some kids, and thus giving more creative but without the internet easily bored kids a chance to show their creativity.
Boredom and attentionspan problems will however also take their toll on the internet, so to predict a more creative generation is not justifiable.
Time will tell.
Lies! (Score:2, Funny)
1. I'm searching for deals on diamonds.
2. Just 10 more minutes.
3. It is cheaper than going out and partying.
4. Theres nothing but crap on TV (which is true)
If I told her I was working on "expanding my creativity" I am pretty sure she would "creatively" kick me in the nuts.
Re:Lies! (Score:2)
No why/how, just that he looks forward to it (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, Tim... duh! But I actually have a bone to pick with the way the post spins his comment. The web isn't going to make kids more creative. Perhaps it will allow natively creative kids to draw on more information and savor the exposure to a wider world... but that's only useful if creativity, as a hardwired personality trait, and as a parent-nurtured habit/way-of-life is actually present.
It's more likely that some creative children will leverage all of this great connectivity to grow up and make cool things happen, and that many more other children will leverage all of this great connectivity by sitting on their couches passively consuming that which the first group creates. Is there anything about humanity's adoption of any evolving communication medium that suggests otherwise? The availability of printing presses didn't turn everyone into authors, and the availability of cheap home video gear didn't turn everyone into creative filmmakers. And the availability of low-brow blogging and site authoring tools sure as hell hasn't made most kids any more creative - just noisier.
I am looking forward to how really creative people continue to push the technology in unexpected directions. But I know better than to think that the creative/potato ratio will change in any meaningful way, Semantic Web or not, Tim.
Logic error? (Score:2)
It may give them a better background for applying creativity should they wish to be creative but I just don't see how it encourages them to actually be creative.
credit where it's due (Score:2)
I guess the his whole stance is denial of other literature that states people in the information age are becomming less intelligent. But wait - creative and intelligent aren't the same thing are they.
Re:credit where it's due (Score:2)
Internet Creativity? (Score:4, Funny)
...ow. I think my brain cells just died.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Opinion (Score:2)
No, you're wrong! You're wrong! You're wrong!
Tim Berners-Lee? (Score:2)
Now I'm confused (Score:2)
Creativity measurements (Score:2)
So, by that measure, yes. The Web will increase creativity.
Information overload (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Information overload (Score:2)
We cut a door and a couple of windows in it and tossed it out in the backyard. They colored it, played in it and god forbid, used their imaginations.
From now on all they are getting for Xmas is the boxes
More creative than us ? Surely you mean you? (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not buying it (Score:2, Interesting)
For my sixth grade science project I made the monumental decision to do it on mold. I did not have Encarta on CD nor did the Internet exist. All I had was my science text book and those books at the library. I put bread in petri dishes and exposed them to various amounts of light, moisture, heat etc... These I used in my science display. I also remember my buddy Tim doin
I don't think so (Score:2)
If you're creative, you're creative and the internet is just a tool to allow you to express that creativity. It will not make you creative.
ValuJet Predicts... (Score:2, Funny)
As far as proof goes, look at all the fat and lazy kids today.
yeah, alright (Score:2)
I agree... (Score:2)
So, instead of writing my vision of what society can be, I'll just say "I agree."
Things never quite work out as you think anyway.
Drugz r teh b4d! (Score:2)
Hell, even this post here has grammatical errors.
Define "creativity" please... (Score:2)
girl> cool!
boy> i gato go, friends asking me to keep writin my power rangers fanfic
girl> keep dat craetivity goin!
(Gee, I can't wait to see what the future is holding for us)
Sir Berners-Lee (Score:2)
In a recent e-mail interview with CNN.com's Lila King, the Briton, now Sir Berners-Lee...
That's Sir Tim you illiterate twit! Stop reading the Internet and check you honorific syntax.
Re:You want a hyphen? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You want a hyphen? (Score:4, Insightful)
This applies to my part of the US.
While I agree with you, I will hasten to add that just like what electronic gadgets and lack of focus have done to our kids in school, the heavy dependence on the Internet will help produce pretty confident kids but who cannot deliver in real world environments.
I know because I was a teacher at one time. Today's kids are pretty confident. They go:..."I can do this...I can do that"...mostly as end users. Just see how kids play the PS2s and XBoxes of this world. They are pretty good at this. When more serious problems come up at their places of work, they cannot deliver. Their companies resort to outsourcing. Little wonder that not much in America seems to be done right these days.
Just imagine for a second how we handled the Katrina hurricane after knowing that it was coming, it was big, it was headed for a city below sea level and that thousands could not evacuate. For the 5 or 6 days we had to prepare, shame is what we have to endure now. Generations to come will be embarrassed with this generation.
Re:You want a hyphen? (Score:2)
In the future, a person's memories will be nothing more than a neural link to wikipedia articles and their decision making process will be based off how the construct their google search.
Wait... I think I already do that.
Socrates claimed "writing" weaken one's intellect (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:N-American children vs W-European Children (Score:3, Informative)
It is not uncommon for European children to be exposed to the naked bodies of men and women from a very young age. Boys grow up knowing what a pussy looks like from a very young age, unlike most boys in America. So once they hit their teen years, European boys usually do not go "crazy" for the vulva.
The human body is not as forbidden, and hence young people
Re:N-American children vs W-European Children (Score:2)
Of course, after the pubs close, they go outside to fight. That's the British version of exercise.
Re:agreed (Score:2)
Re:You're Talking Like This is a Good Thing... (Score:2)
that is one truely horribly cutesy flash. I'm only glad that it crashed mozilla before I could get sucked in and be forced to gouge my eyes out.
Re:Kids these days... (Score:2)
You've never been to New Jersey or Deleware, have you?