Nerds Make Better Lovers 1148
ultimabaka writes "The New York Daily News, fine bastion of reporting that it is, released an article today discussing the rise of nerd popularity among women in general, and famous women in particular. Detail is given into the dating exploits of Christina Aguilera and Elin Nordegren (nerdy Tiger Woods' supermodel squeeze), among a bunch of regular Janes. Apparently being a nerd is now in?"
Tiger Woods? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing about this article is that it's talking about what good providers nerds make. And what nice guys they are. And how much of a 'turn on' that is. People - women and men both - don't like what's good for them. It just doesn't seem to be the way things work. Intelligence, introversion, and individualistic tendencies (standard geek traits) != Sexy. Eval(Good breadwinner + good hair + muscles == sexy) == 1.*
The famous couples in TFA where the male is paid millions to ACT like he's a geek are not good examples.
Geeks are, of course, willing to put a lot more effort into relationships sometimes. And they are sometimes willing to learn, because it's what they like to do. Occasionally they can be interested in learning interpersonal and social skills. That can make them easier to deal with in some ways, and (or so I've been told) intelligence can make them slightly better in certain situations where a bit of knowledge about biology is helpful. Does this make them more attractive? Not really. Does it make it easier for them to get girls to stick around for a while? Kinda. In my experience, the 'geeky' drive to throw intense, unimaginable-to-non-geeks effort into a problem until it is 'solved' has been a great detriment to every relationship I have ever attempted. Add to that the fact that most of the geeks I've known have been idealists, perfectionists, and socially inept for various reasons, and you get a group of people that aren't that sexy. Female geeks generally have their pick of the litter, and that's a sign that it's a very strong seller's market to me.
Sorry. This article isn't accurate. Modern society isn't getting deeper, it's just that its advice columnists want to think they are.
* - I haven't touched a C compiler in years. Correct me all you like.
no... (Score:2, Insightful)
Posers (Score:3, Insightful)
An annoying trend... (Score:1, Insightful)
Nerds (Score:2, Insightful)
WHATEVER!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, and I hear Brad Pitt is practically a hermit.
Re:Tiger Woods? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Louis: All jocks ever think about is sports. All we ever think about is sex!
Revenge of the Nerds. Great movie. Interesting to see how many actors are there hit it big later, such as:
-Anthony Edwards (Gilbert. Hit it big on "ER" later)
-Ted McGinley (Stan. Everybody now knows him as "Jefferson Darcy" from Married with Children)
-John Goodman (Coach. Lots of other things since)
-James Cromwell (Louis's Dad. Definitely a big name now)
Maybe a few others, but still, awesome movie.
But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:5, Insightful)
1) I can't tell you how many geek guys I know who can't even take care of their most basic personal hygiene needs. You need to shower at least once a day and use deodorant to become reasonably attractive to any woman. No woman is turned on by stinky body odor.
2) Self-confidence is attractive. Unfortunately, many geeks think self-confidence is something for guys who brag about every "conquest" they have. It's not. Self-confidence is simply respect and love for who you are. Love yourself first and good relationships will follow. This is difficult, but it's the key ingredient to any successful relationship. If you know who you are and you love who you are, people will love and respect you that much more.
3) Complaining/whining is not attractive. Some geeks have very bitter personalities and spend a lot of time whining about how the world would be a better place if only this or that. (The most common one I hear is whining about a job they're in.) If you complain, do something about it! Start your own business. Program something better on the side and sell it. Take control of the situation and create something better instead of griping.
4) Being a slave isn't attractive. If you make it clear that you'll do anything for a woman, and grovel for her affection, you're going to end up attracting the wrong type of woman. Any successful relationship is a two-way street. While there's nothing wrong with showing your love and affection, groveling only means you'll get taken advantage of and perhaps become bitter about (see #3.)
5) Lead a balanced life. No one is less attractive than someone who sits on a computer all day and never gets out of the house. Plus, it doesn't make for a healthy life of your own (I should know; I work from home and often spend 12-16 hours a day in front of the computer.) Get out there, meet people, and have fun. It will make you feel better about yourself to have a good group of friends around, as well.
I have been in several great relationships with geeky guys. I find the most successful relationships I have are with guys who already have a decent level of self-confidence and several friends who respect and love them. They may be interested in computers, but they are also interested in having fun and getting out of the house on a regular basis. Take this guide to heart and you can have a good relationship with the right woman as well.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Younger women, like young men, basically look at superficial traits to a large extent. They are attracted to certain body shapes, personality types, and dress. Nerds don't tend to meet those, and get forgotten. When people mature a little, they start to look more for a personality that they can spend the rest of their life with. Nerds can fit very well in this category, but they get forgotten because they aren't out socializing, and because of negative stereotypes. Some people are just pointing out that they deserve a second look.
Then again, I can only comment from observation. 29 and never been on a date.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Female Logic (Score:2, Insightful)
I can't tell you how many times I heard, "Well, he can be REALLY nice when he wants to!"
But really, the whole thing is a female conspiracy to train us to be lap dogs. We're subjected to the humiliation and abuse of our adolescent/early adulthood to condition us to crave even the slightest attention from a pretty woman.
By the time we've completed our conditioning, we're happy to give whatever it takes, as long as they deign to give us attention--even if it's only long enough to ask for something.
"You are not Morg. You are not EyeMorg. What you are I do not understand!"
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, its interesting. Niether of these professions are known to be fit, both sit on their asses all day. So what gives?
I think it's confidence, and that confidence is the number one turn on for women in bed. If you're a programmer and you're pushing the edge of what you know every day, overconfidence can kill you. It's worthwhile to question yourself, to wonder if there's a better way, to be curious and humble.
Another angle is that for a truck driver, sex may just be the only interesting thing in his life, and he devotes all of his brain power to it.
Re:Thats good news for me. (Score:3, Insightful)
What woman say they want vs. attractted to. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure if they fall for a geek they will probably be happer in the long run. Because we tend to have better jobs, Less violent temperments, Be being rejected for over 20 years we take a relationship much more seriously because they are so hard to get.
But I doubt that hot chicks will start knocking at our doors anytime soon. They will do what Woman have been doing for many many years. Dating with all the "Attractive" People. Then they realize that they are jerks then settle with a geek.
Re:But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, you won't end up with any women at all. Women like to be chased (not physically, gentlemen...lets not break any stalking laws here), but they don't like guys who want to date their own mothers, either. Women like strength in men, strength of character, strength of personality, and frankly, strength of body doesn't hurt either.
And just accept the fact that attractive women want attractive men. That's biology for you. Sorry. If your personality can overcome that, good for you, but most of us are programmed by God, Darwin, whoever, to chase the most physically attractive of the opposite sex. The so-called geek success stories here are successes because they have lots of cash, which frankly, goes a long long way toward attracting women.
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, fer frack's sake... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now that that's out of the way, I can make a more rational response.
Women are attracted to intelligence and stability? As a femmegeek, I've known this for ages. What irks me about most of the comments is the reversion to early adolescence that marks these discussions. Using the experiences of high school as a benchmark for your entire life seems a really bass-ackwards thing to do. Almost nobody is, as a teenager, self-confident enough to choose a dating partner without regard to what your "friends" might say. And yes; women can be horribly self-absorbed and shallow. Even women who self-identify as "nerdy". Guess what, though: men can too, and in some ways, they can be even worse about it. I have, sadly, dated male geeks who wanted me around because having an attractive female on their arm supposedly raised their status, somehow. Never mind that I was at least as intelligent as they were; they wanted a trophy, and nothing more. However, I've stuck with the high-IQ set, instead of lowering my standards, because I am attracted to intelligence. I think that many, many other women out there are as well, but given the still-prevalent expectation that "girls aren't..." (good at math, interested in science, fill in your stereotype of choice), most women are more than a little reluctant to admit it. The 50s-era maternal admonition of "boys don't like girls who are too smart" still echoes today.
Luckily, I never bought into it. So I sit here, posting on Slashdot, an intelligent, fit, good-looking geek woman, who isn't ashamed to admit the fact. And I think that I speak for a number of my fellow geekettes, gentlemen, when I say that smart is sexy. If you want to engage my hormones, engage my brain first. I'm not going to make hot sweaty snugglebunnies with anyone with whom I can't have a good conversation.
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
Talking about famous people and how they have the hottest women and still are nerdy, is just an example of how easy it is to get a trophy wife when you are famous and have money. Elin Nordegren, to whom Tiger Woods is married, would never have ended up with a guy like Tiger if he had nopt been worth $500 million+.
Don't get your hopes up guys, girls don't like introverted single minded computergeeks. Get a different hobby, lose the ugly glasses, get some contacts. Get a skin treatment and loose some weight. Get some dental work done. Learn how to communicate and how to listen. Girls in general couldn't care less about computers, nor do they like that you spend 10 hours a day in front of the screen.
Nerds, geeks and what not... If you want a girl, you need to change. Introverts are not sexy, they are horrible to be around due to their intorversion. Sorry guys, don't get ypur hopes up!!
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Confidence in the number one turn on, and generally geeks don't have it. It's certaintly not overconfidence, but underconfidence.
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you live in your parent's basement (and you're past college age), you're a loser. Being a nerd/geek is not your problem.
If she meets your parents before you you first kiss her, it's going to be much harder make a good impression. Would you date a girl that would likely require you to move into her 12x10 bedroom with cinderella sheets, n'sync posters, barbies on the shelves and her nutty parents across the hallway? How she looks and acts would barely come into play.
Confidence (Score:3, Insightful)
Confidence is attractive. Don't confuse arrogance for self confidence. This is how the hot chicks end up with jerks.
"Self-confidence is simply respect and love for who you are."
I'll agree the respect part, but self-love == vanity and is nither confidence or attractive. Keeping a good appearance is part of self respect, checking ones self out in the mirror before having-at-it is the other.
If women could just make better distinctions between these couple things, they could weed out the jerks and not resort to nerds to avoid the A--holes.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Women want men who are aloof and unavailable, yet still social and personable. It may seem like a paradox, but it's not. It's best summed up by saying, "Look like you're interesting but never interested."
Women do like smart men very much. The "geek effect" is when smart men do stupid social things like acting too interested in a woman or acting like an idiot around her. Just walk up to her, talk to her, make her laugh, ask for her phone number, and if she gives it to you, wait at least a week to call her. Don't make a date on a weekend, make it on a weeknight. If she is otherwise taken, ask if she has a friend that she'd like to set up on a blind date. Never walk away embarrassed or disappointed -- that's weak and women don't like it.
Women don't want what is bad for them, they want what they think they can't have. It makes them think that they might not be good enough for you, and if you play your cards right in dating and socializing, she will be happy to be with a smart, intelligent man who has piqued her interest . She'll feel like she's doing better than she should be.
Go read Doc Love's column on AskMen.com [askmen.com]. It's damn good advice, and it works.
Re:But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I'm fucked! (no, not in the good way).
Seriously though, a lot of the woe of geekdom comes from the slightly sideways way of looking at the world and interacting with people. (Insert various hypothesized links to autism/Asperger's/ADD/whatever here.) All sorts of seeming paradoxes result: the deeply caring geek who unknowingly whips out incredibly hurtful words or actions, the guy who's willing and eager to talk about feelings and relating to each other but completely oblivious to what he and others are communicating nonverbally, others...
Some of the social traits of geekdom, such as the ability to be unabashedly enthused about something (even the most cynical geek has childlike moments) or a dry, gently self-deprecating humour can actually work pretty well for an initial spark of attraction. But after that, the emphasis on meritocracy and problem-solving really screws things up. The only solution I've found is to make a continual, conscious effort to pay gobs of attention to how I'm relating. Intelligence and problem-solving convert poorly to empathy, but you have to apply what you've got to the situations you're in...
Re:naturally... (Score:2, Insightful)
Women tend to be more sensitive about their "biological time bombs" ticking, but some of the same is true about men, as well. Kids deserve vitality from a parent, and IMHO they also deserve parents that are able to watch the grandkids so they can go off alone for a few days with the spouse and recapture a little youth.
Plus there are a lot of positives to being married, some that you can't appreciate without being there and evolving through it.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
We could argue all day WHY these traits tend to go together, but it's hard to argue that they DON'T. People ARE different - perhaps there's only 4 or 5 different personality buckets that people fall into, but they are very *different* buckets! I'm not going to claim that everyone is a true individual and all that, because I don't really believe it. But: Linked Personality Traits... I'm just sayin'.
-If
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
I want so badly to screw my Fiancee's best friend... she is 8 year younger, drop dead beautiful and not good for me in any way.
She is a wack job nutcase that I am certian that after a few weeks of wild and crazy sex would result in my tolerance of her absolute wierdness and bitchyness to drop to zero.
On the Other Hand, My fiancee is a wonderful loving caring and wonderfully sexually twisted woman that is most certianly the best for me. It took me 2 years to get over my wanting to not date her but her friends or the other nutty but really hot women I meet.
The slightly homely woman that had a normal upbringing and is a boring geeky girl that will watch SCIFI, thinks that robot chicken and the venture brothers is a hoot and was willing to laugh with me all the way through "team america" and basically is my absolute best friend is my choice for my life mate.
Remember guys, the HOT CHICK will be a wrinkly old hag with a "hump-me" tattoo above her butt in 15 years. Tolerating a woman's wierdness or lack of personality because she makes you horny just looking at her is not with it.
A woman who can be your best friend is your best choice, looks mean nothing.
Believe me, I've been married to the hottie, it ain't worth it... not even if she can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch.
And guess what, that "slightly homely girl" become the most beautiful woman in the world to you as you realize who she really is.
Re:naturally... (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's the way I see it. I might have missed out on some fun, and also probably a lot of stupid and self-destructive things too, but I have the rest of my life to enjoy being with my wife (12 years so far), while many of those party animal types will end up divorced and bitter.
Did I miss out? Sure. Do I care? Heck no.
You missed the *most* important point. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're a geek, take an anthropology lesson from society.
Women are looking for providers. They can't help it. It makes sense. Who gets stuck with the baby for 15 years as it grows up? Not the bloke, he can wander off and father a dozen (a thousand? [nationalgeographic.com]) more. It's just the same way you can't help looking for physically attractive females.
Why are men fascinated by money, cars, houses etc? Status items, evidence of their ability to provide. Why do women spend sooo much time on their appearance?
You want to be sexy to women? Look around you. Start looking and acting like someone who can provide.
Re:naturally... (Score:2, Insightful)
Most geek options in the opposite sex are limited. The rejections tend to make us treasure the gems we find. Sounds stupid but for most geeks I know, it holds to be true. Most times geeks don't have the oppurtunity to sleep around, but yes given the option, often times males will be males.
That's not necessarily true. Geeks tend to have higher IQ's and such. A true geek also tends to do his research and figure out how to improve things. Some people also have the natural abilities with things. It's like how jocks can naturally be good at sports while we can naturally be good at school.
Why does concentration require special powers? It requires focus. Most jocky friends I know have the attention span of gnats. Anything that doesn't relate to beer or sports or fart jokes or a hot half naked woman doesn't merit their attention. (Yes I'm generalizing and no it doesn't apply to everyone or all jocks. This is just the typical person)
A lot of girls appreciate a guy who can pay attention to them and listen to what their saying as opposed to "in one ear, out the other". It doesn't necessarily mean they appreciate you as more than a friend though. They just tend to use you to listen and the jock to date.
I am different from everyone else. Not because of my fingers though. While my fingers are stronger than the average human, it is a result of a combination of things. Part of it comes from typing at insane speeds.
While the parent author had one thing in mind, another use is for giving massages. Jocks have strong hands, few have strong fingers. Most can't handle giving the deep massages for more than a few minutes. I can do a few hours easy. Is this superhuman? No. It's conditioning.
What the hell does this mean? Since when do you need to have special powers to be imaginative? It takes imagination to be creative, and in turn to be really romantic. It's a talent that requires nurturing and development. If you disagree, then explain why it is most of my jock-friends have to buy books on how to be romantic or come to me for ideas on how to romance THEIR girlfriends.
Agreed. Most of your post had nothing to do what the original post said since you somehow correlate talents and traits that can be nurtured or developed with being superhuman or unattainable.
Agreed...though maybe a geek chick can appreciate how fast you're able to compile a kernel.
"It's got a 28.8 k-b-p-s modem!" (hackers movie)
Re:Oh, fer frack's sake... (Score:3, Insightful)
Appearance fades, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly, but the end result is always the same. A sharp mind is a joy long after other things fade.
Confidence is earned, you don't just grow it. (Score:1, Insightful)
This is a pet-peeve of mine. Many women seem to think that confidence is something you choose to have. Granted, you say it is "difficult", but that isn't the whole story.
I am confident in my work. Did I just "try" and then gain it? No. I was given a shot by someone. A small company took a chance with me, and that experience, while not lasting, was successful. I now have 8 years of experience, and while there have been ups and downs, I have had enough positive experiences to have confidence that my future efforts will not be met with crushing failure.
On the other hand, I have never had a girlfriend. Lots of my female friends tell me and others that they find me attractive (I also have good hygene, and I'm not overweight) but that I likely don't have a girlfriend because of my lack of confidence.
I have never tasted success, so how do they expect me to have confidence? Every girl I had interest in from junior high, high school, and college turned me down. Every woman I have had interest in since I entered the workforce has turned me down. From everything I can gather, based on what they have told me or their friends, these women didn't turn me down because they were dramatically out of my league, but because they saw I didn't have much confidence, and didn't want to be my first. One woman actually did show interest in me until she found out I'd never had a girlfriend.
Someone has to be the first.
Re:Oh, fer frack's sake... (Score:4, Insightful)
Most women (and men, for girl geeks) want things that geeks, for all their protestations to the contrary, don't want to give them.
How do I know this? Let me put it this way, I was happier when I didn't have a girlfriend! I love my girlfriend, but she drives me crazy. Lot's of reasons, but financial ones are the biggest ones.
It doesn't help that our society pushes emotionally unready people into relationships by acting like, "Oh, if you only had a boyfriend or girlfriend, you problems would be solved." The reality is, "oh, you've got a boyfriend or a girlfriend, that's another problem."
Re:The Real Reason is that Geeks Are Submissive (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm sorry, but this paragraph just drips with disrespect, and I find I can't let it pass unchallenged.
You've also, I believe, got it wrong: Geeks don't crave discipline and submission (honestly, when a world-class geek faces down a computer, which do you think does the submitting?). What we do like is structure and determinism. We would like the wetware world to be just as orderly and predictable as the software and hardware worlds. So if I, for example, performed activity X, and consistently received from you response Y, I would therefore presume that Y has something to do with X, and will build my mental models accordingly. OTOH, if I perform X, and I receive response mrand48(), then I would presume you're insane, and would be incapable of forming any kind of mental structure.
Geeks are uncomfortable when they don't know what to do because they don't know what the rules are -- because they don't know the structure. In this respect, dear lady, you hold a slight advantage in that such structure is often formalized in D/S (and no, I'm not going to lowercase the 'S' because I'm not that pretentious). But I think you're failing to note an inconsistency in your position. To wit:
When reading your post, one starts to form an opinion of where your obsession lies. You decry people obsessed with themselves, yet seem to grant yourself an exception. This incongruity, not to mention apparent disrespect for your partners (by referring to them as "subs" rather than more human terms), may well come back to bite you unpleasantly on the bottom if you're not cautious.
The only reason I bother to reply at all is because D/S can be a tremendously fun space to play in, but it's enormously frustrating to see D/S abused by people trying to, "prove something," or even to reflect the abuses they themselves endured. I am not accusing you of abuse. I've never met you, and therefore grant you the benefit of the doubt. Indeed, you are probably rather charming company. But working entirely from your post paints an unflattering picture. If you don't wish to be seen that way, you should re-examine how you articulate your position.
Schwab
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's the part that has always made me bitter. The fact us geeks will be there when these wild women are "ready to settle down." We won't be out there having the wild fun, partying, adventures with them, we'll be there when they're ready to end that and become more serious. They'll have all these memories and experiences, we'll have Saturday nights watching Star Trek reruns.
Dude, if I could give you and anyone else who reads this some advice, please listen closely.. You do no need a female to go have wild fun partying adventures. Before I get flamed, let me elaborate.
When I was 16-20 I did the typical "nerd" stuff. Sat at home on weekends, tinkered with my computer/hobbies, and never had social interaction. When I turned 21 I was fed up with it and went and got a job at a nightclub. I didn't know a single person there when I started, I didn't have a girlfriend, I just took the plunge and immersed myself in the whole nightlife scene. I was working the door of the club, and believe me, everyone wants to know the door guy. We charged a $5 cover and you wouldn't believe what some people will do to get out of paying cover. I got kisses from hot females, drinks, phone numbers, flashed various body parts, etc. Within a couple of months I was starting to go out partying with my co-workers from the club, and within a year I knew just about everyone that came in regularly.
So in about a year's time I went from a social "zero" to a well known guy in the night life scene. In the few years that followed (my early 20's) I had plenty of girls, tons of friends, and all of the wild partying fun adventures I could handle. At one point I was even dating a stripper for a couple of months. I'm settled down and engaged now (NOT to the stripper), but I wouldn't trade those few years for ANYTHING. Yeah I probably shaved a few years off the end of my life, and yeah I probably could have spend that time doing something "productive" like studying or programming, but you only get once chance at life to have great experiences. IMO you should take them whenever possible, or make them if you have to.
Re:naturally... I am going to have to disagree (Score:1, Insightful)
There are a lot of girls who love nerdy guys, big glasses are just a "mark of nerddom". Intelligent girls tend to love the conversations that a nerdy guy can sustain, and the dumb ones will usually love anime and think they're dating some internet-james-bond with "ooh but you can just hack their lives away" ideas, equating computer knowledge with some mystical power.
Additionally, introverts are VERY sexy. Introverts are very bad at interacting in a group, but once they find a single person to interact with that person will be the sole focus of their attention when they do spend time with them.
The only point you made I don't have any experience with is weight... I've been a vegan since I was 6 years old so I've never had a weight problem, but my personal experience definately goes contrary to all your other points.
Josh.
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've found for most women they aren't looking for a solution, they are looking for empathy. When they start complaining about so-and-so at work is so difficult to work with, they don't want you to start asking questions and trying to figure out how they can work together better. They just want you to say, "they are just a bad person, I mean everybody else loves working with you."
In their mind they already have a solution, they don't want to hear yours, they just want to know they are supported.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:naturally... (Score:1, Insightful)
Get a different hobby - Why? Most hobbies are, almost by definition, something one is deeply (perhaps obsessively) interested in; most men (and women) have them, and their partners often don't share it. It only gets in the way of a relationship when it's too obsessive; what the hobby actually is is irrelevant.
Lose the ugly glasses - Why? Glasses aren't ugly per se. I know plenty of guys with glasses and girlfriends (and plenty without glasses and without girlfriends). And often said girlfriends will have glasses too.
Get a skin treatment - OK, maybe. But I know plenty of guys with bad skin and girlfriends, and... you know the rest.
loose some weight - probably should (unless he's the skinny-geek type...), for health reasons. Beyond that, unless you're grossly obese, it doesn't seem to pose an obstacle to relationships either.
Get some dental work done. - yeah, for health reasons. But a lot of people here in the UK have grotesquely bad teeth and seem to have no relationship problems.
Learn how to communicate and how to listen. - ah, there we have it. I think that's the only point from your list that's actually any good.
nor do they like that you spend 10 hours a day in front of the screen. - I don't think they care, as long as you're a good boyfriend the other 14 hours.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not even that, really. Most nerds treat chicks as though they're an alien species. They want to be treated like a normal person. Unfortunately, the tendancy is to walk on eggshells around them. "Here, let me get my chair for you." "Oh, I agree with everything you say, don't wanna offend you here." "Not as beautiful as you!"
Wimmenz don't like that. Nothing turns a girl off more than a suspsicion that you're not being honest with them. They also aren't keen on guys only liking them for their ambient sexual appeal. They like knowing that they've earned your attention. If you just give it to them out of desperation, you're sending up a warning flag.
Nerds actually can get chicks, but the first thing they've got to do is stop treating chicks like they're ladies. Treat them like a friend you've known a while and are comfortable interacting with.
Re:Confidence is earned, you don't just grow it. (Score:3, Insightful)
These are the cruel little tricks of nature that, originally, led to the evolution of species. Great for the whole, but hell on individuals.
Re:But seriously, SHOWER! (Score:2, Insightful)
- Self-confidence is indeed attractive, but arrogance and an unwillingness to associate with others is not. For me, I had a lot of trouble associating with non-nerds. There was a fear of not being accepted with them, but there was also an air of arrogance about me. Whatever other stereotypes there are, it is important to realize people aren't stereotypes, even if on the outside they fit into one perfectly. Don't stick your nose up at people if they don't know the first thing about this-or-that or care about things that you don't. It wasn't that people wouldn't accept me for who I am; it was that I couldn't accept the way they are.
- I wanted to emphasize having a balanced life. If you don't realize the importance of this, my answer is simple: you can't assume that you've found the highest point of happiness in life. You have to explore to find it. This is synonymous with agents in AI--in order to find a near-optimal solution, an agent must get off their local maxima and jump around, settling for less profit for some amount of time. Assuming you are convinced, there are some solutions that I found very rewarding. The first is martial arts--it certainly has the nerdy material, but also teaches you how to train your body. It's also a great way to meet different people. Music, economics, and ultimate frisbee are some other interests of mine. I'm in college, so for me it is trivial to find people who like any topic I happened to be interested in.
- The slave point is another very good one. Realize you have needs in a relationship, and don't let her think she's better than you. I think the reason most nerds have trouble dating is for this very fact. At heart, I think most of the women we would love to date are good at heart. The reason they don't enter into relationships with such people is because they don't want to walk all over us. Think about it: do you want to expend all of your effort making sure the other person is happy, or would you rather make sure YOU are happy and that the relationship is good? Helping people is fine, but holding someone's hand all the way through leaves something to be desired.
Lastly, I'd like to apologize to any nerd out there who knows this stuff and applies it already. But realize there are people who have these problems. I would hate to imply that any of us are idiots, but I was there too. It's not that we're stupid, it's just that we're good at different things. But we can adjust; we can change and grow into more mature, more self-responsible beings. Don't let anyone tell you that you have no common sense; you might have to work at it, but there's no shame in that. Just like for someone else, there is no shame in having to work hard at something like Algebra or Intro to Programming.
be smart, get and use free attention (Score:2, Insightful)
Where a T-Shirt that says:
"If I can make a computer...
I can make you cum"
I bought one at tshirthell.com... It works.
Re:naturally... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know A LOT of men who find it very pleasant just to speak about problems without trying to find a solution. It makes me feel lighter.
The main problem is this stupid image of "the man" in society, that "a man" has to have the solution to everything. When I speak about a problem without trying to solve it, I risk that other look down on me. (Psychologically, I could say that they just dont want to be reminded that they havent the solution to every problem either, but that's their problem)
Another problem is to find people that actually listen the way I want them to. Men tend to offer solutions, and I dont want solutions, I can find them myself, women tend to offer comfort ("this isn't that bad", "time will solve it") and I dont want comfort, it IS bad, or I wouldnt speak of it.
What I'm looking for in a listener is his interest and his capacity to make me feel less alone. And to feel accepted despite (or even because!) the fact that I currently dont have a solution.
Almost all people who I introduced to this "just listen" thing, ended up preferring it to advice and comforting. Men and women along.
(Note : sometimes I also look for advice, and then I say so directly. And I find it much easier to ask for advice than to ask someone to listen. If I ask for advice, I already have figured what to do : namely, ask for advice. If I ask someone to listen, I'm lost.)
Generally, I think that men tend to hide their insecurity in silence, women hide their insecurity by speaking about superficially things. Both to avoid speaking about the insecurity. To avoid showing a fragility, a vulnerability.
And I find speaking about the insecurity difficult, risky, more often than not i'm terrified of being rejected, but in the end very rewarding. And I have found friends who dont reject me for it and I stick with them, as I find it highly comforting to know that I dont have to be perfect the whole time, to always have a solution, in order to keep my friends / girlfriend / family.
And many people actually react positivly to fragility, probably because it makes me more "human" in their perception.
And right now, I hesitate to click on the submit button for fear of rejection, especially after Semi-Lagrange said it would be "mentally underdeveloped" to only speak 'to put things on the table'. However, this is how I live my life and I want to combat these gender images (especially the "a real man only talks for to find solutions"
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
About changing hobbies:
No.
I will sit in front of my computer when I feel like it. I will simply not abandon my wife to do so. It would be no different if I spent hours and hours working on my car or mowing my lawn or learning sports stats. The type of hobby isn't the problem, ignoring your partner is.
What you're suggesting is that all people everywhere should give up things they enjoy in order to attract someone else, which doesn't have to be the case.
Generalizing (Score:3, Insightful)
And, the women I spend my time with (particularly the one I am marrying) are not lazy or mentally underdeveloped. Typically, if a man has a lot of problems, he doesn't talk about it to anyone and just deals with the emotions involved. And typically, as the grandparent suggests, if a woman has a lot of problems, she talks about them to those close to her in order to feel better about her approach to the problem. Maturity or intelligence level have nothing to do with a woman's tendencies to follow her feelings and be sympathetic of others, be it a natural instinct or societal influence.
Besides, wouldn't the more intelligent approach be to have a fluid solution, so it can adapt to failure?
woman's perspective.... (Score:5, Insightful)
1. I *do* complain (or whine; your pick how you wish to label it) a lot about things I observe in the world around me. If that's too "unattractive" for a woman to deal with, so be it. But I usually point such things out to spark a conversation. I'm typically upset at something I think needs to be pointed out and addressed, rather than just swept under the rug. All too often, I think women want to avoid confrontation or discussion that might not be of the "happy, happy - joy, joy" type. You know... the types that try to end all political discussion at a table as soon as it starts, with a "can't we just talk about something ELSE?!" plea?
2. I'm not too convinced many women really want a guy that seems very "into" them at all? Practically every time I've been in a new relationship that I was really excited about (felt those "sparks" from the first time we met and all that good stuff), the thing that seemed to immediately terminate it was expressing the fact that I felt so strongly about it! My theory is, women want to feel like they're the ones who "won the guy over" themselves... They want to be the one in the "driver's seat" after the guy makes that first move and does the initial "hitting on them" and they accept. No matter how much you're falling into "like", "love" or "lust" for the woman, the only thing she wants is for you to pay attention to her on her terms, and always drop what you're doing to come over there *if you're invited*, but NOT to start doing things on your own to show how much you care. It has to be HER show, played out the way SHE wants it to play out.
3. On the "balanced life" thing, sure - everyone needs to get out in public now and then. But if you're really into computers, you can use that to your advantage rather than it working against you here. The computer is the ultimate communications tool! Get into a local IRC chat room for your city or state and organize a "get together" for the people who congregate there. Use email to invite some people out for dinner or bowling or trivia night or whatever you think they'd all enjoy. Do some searches online for recommendations of interesting things to do or see in your area. Buy a cheap hand-held GPS and get into the new hobby of GeoCaching! (www.geocaching.com)
Re:naturally... (Score:2, Insightful)
Right, because that never gets you the "let's just be friends"/"you're like a brother to me" routine, and we all know that geeks never get that.
Sarcasm aside, geeks by and large are actually pretty nice people (at least most of the ones I've interacted with), but most of them aren't considered prime choice for your typical female, whether it's because of the social stigma or their appearance or something else. They get thrown into the "nice guy/best friend" role because they have difficulty asserting themselves and voicing their desires. This tends to be a more introverted behavior, but that makes sense as most geeks are introverted. I've had more female friends than male friends in my life, and that's both frustrating and nice.
No, I'd say the biggest roadblock to geeks finding a good relationship -- hell, even speaking to a woman -- is self-confidence, because that's where it all starts: approach. It's a Catch-22, really, though, because you can't expect someone who's been ridiculed for being nerdy or weird or different to feel any form of self-confidence after being made to feel worthless for such a huge portion of their life. They fear rejection because it's incredibly painful, yet at the same time they hate being lonely.
I have about this much [] self-confidence, and I know that's what's holding me back. That and I gotta lay off the ribs. Mmmmm, ribs.
Re:small correction :P (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:naturally... (Score:2, Insightful)
I tried to get into the partying thing, and found that I really really hated it. It just wasn't my thing. If it is your thing, then thats great, but you shouldn't feel guilty or like you're missing out because you're not having fun in the same way other people are.
You should live your life in such a way that you enjoy yourself the best way that you can. Don't assume that because other people are having loads of fun club-hopping, drinking, and dancing that you will necessarily enjoy it as much as they do. Personally, I much prefer hanging out with my friends and doing stuff like video games, playing pool, and watching movies to going to clubs. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Re:naturally... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well congatulations. (Score:3, Insightful)
If you truly are as scared/upset/bitter/pissed as your letter makes it sound, then it needs to end. Not the relationship -- perhaps -- but the conditions that make it so scary. The way in which you phrased your letter made it sound like 'he sucks, but I certainly couldn't do better'; which is *never* true: if you are afraid of being tossed aside one day because Father Time has finally caught up with you then you can certainly do better.
It could be as simple as a communication problem -- I'm not there, I don't know.
Re:Well congatulations. (Score:1, Insightful)
For example, I have a gorgeous wife. But I have to confess, she's not always gorgeous. There are times when she looks extremely normal and plain. But I'm still crazy about her, because I'm not just in love with her looks. And if she porked out to 160 pounds, I'd still love her.
Re:Well congatulations. (Score:3, Insightful)
He is doting, and flattering, and patient, and as long as I continue to be nothing short of a full-blown goddess, he will continue to be wonderful.
Your looks will fade, granted. He'll love what you do for him, granted. But is it such a bad thing that he likes the person you are? If he actually loses interest in you as time passes then you can complain all you like but what you're describing is not a guy that's in it because you look good or you're perfect.
At least pretty-boys are low maintainance. At least jocks and players they know they're worthless, it actually turned them into better people. Nerds aren't the underdogs, they're the staple, now...and they know it.
I've never known a player that didn't think the world of themselves. They can't allow themselves for one minute to doubt their own worth because that might mean actually paying their prey some respect.
Look, if you want an excuse to go for a superficial idiot, you can make one up all you like but it sure sounds to me like you've got something great and that instead of appreciating it you're bored and looking to hunt down a meaningless fling. That's your problem but why on earth you've been modded up for it boggles the mind! In the meantime I feel sorry for your boyfriend.
Re:Oh, fer frack's sake... (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, if you're serious get out while you still can. Before you marry her because its expected or get her pregnant and stick with her because its expected (or wind up alone but paying child support)
It's always going to be an effort having a relationship but if you're not getting enough out of it that you're not happier to be with her than alone, why would you bother?
Re:Oh, fer frack's sake... (Score:3, Insightful)
I mean, don't get me wrong, I am happily married. But women will hit on me at the gym (when I don't where my band, I've already bent the hell out of it when weight lifting).
I'm polite about it. But whenever that question comes up (what do you do?), I usually get the quick exit treatment. I almost get the feeling that women are intimidated by it or something. Like they don't think that someone "so smart" would ever be interested in them.
So geeks, get up your friggin' courage. Women, stop thinking so low about yourselves.
And for fsck's sake just talk to one another.
The more people get laid, the happier they'll be.
~X~
Re:Well congatulations. (Score:2, Insightful)