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WinOS+QEMU+Knoppix 3.8 = WinKnoppix! 356

Posted by timothy
from the oh-klaus-you-hypnotize-me dept.
chronicon writes "As reported earlier Knoppix 3.8 was presented and CD's distributed at CeBIT recently. For those of us who were not able to attend, some kind folks have posted a torrent for all to enjoy. Now, here's where it really gets interesting. Using QEMU (processor emulator) chris-uk has posted a modified version of Knoppix 3.8 that will run under Windows if auto-played, or if you wish, you can boot the CD for normal Knoppix. You can find the torrent here."
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WinOS+QEMU+Knoppix 3.8 = WinKnoppix!

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  • Yes, but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:19PM (#11949709)
    Can it run WINE?
  • by episodic (791532)
    Knoppix continues to be all that and a bag of chips :)
  • Umm (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kethinov (636034) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:23PM (#11949735) Homepage Journal
    from the oh-klaus-you-hypnotize-me dept.
    timothy, I think you need a vacation. ;)
  • Is import all the settings across from windows and you can tell you granny it's the latest version of the internet and your away.
  • WinKnoppix! (Score:5, Funny)

    by FunWithHeadlines (644929) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:24PM (#11949756) Homepage
    Gesundheit.
  • by virtualone (768392) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:25PM (#11949762)
    i never tried out qemu, but i suspect it to be substantially slower than a native knoppix boot.
    on top of qemu comes the fact, that the whole system runs from a cd, which by itself has bad seek times.

    i hope that people won't get false implessions, because they will get that 'linux runs slower than windows' feeling.
    • by Anne Honime (828246) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:39PM (#11949876)
      Qemu is damn fast, in my experience ; I wouldn't dare quantify it, but running win 98 under qemu on a 900 Mhz Athlon is perfectly OK, and it is impressive, quality-wise. Moreover, if host and target cpu are identical, there's a fast version of qemu to avoid unecessary emulations - didn't try that one, though, because it segfaulted on my FC2, and I was happy enough with the regular emulator so I didn't bother to investigate the issue any further (I did the build from CVS, so I expected glitches).
  • by fohat (168135)
    I've recently been looking into running Linux on my primary desktop to record music with. I could never get the Knoppix live CD to run correctly on my Gateway X700 system. I'll have to try this version and see if I can get anything to work.

    Linux has been a frustration of mine for the past 4 years. I know a smattering of Unix commands and even armed with that I still can't ever seem to get a program downloaded and working like I can with windows. I'm looking forward to trying it again before I make the
    • by QuantumG (50515) <qg@biodome.org> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:46PM (#11949944) Homepage Journal
      Please try a few flavours of Linux. At least try Ubuntu's Live CD (GNOME based) as well as Knoppix (KDE based). To really love Linux you've gotta find the distribution that is "right for you".
    • I'm a friggin' moron and I can install Linux, DRUNK! Try PC Linux OS 2k4 PR8.
    • There are many better live CDs than knoppix, seriously, it just gets the most attention. Try one of the ones dedicated to multimedia.
  • what about coLinux? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:42PM (#11949907)
    From the reports I've seen, qemu is VERY slow. Is there an advantage to qemu over coLinux? I've been using coLinux to give me Linux under Windows for about a year now, and there is a lot to be said for native execution speed. You also get networking, and recently easy access of the native Windows filesystems without employing samba-type file sharing.

    Of course, it's difficult to deny the power of running a gameboy emulator on a GBA emulator on a Linux emulator on a Windows emulator on your Mac...
    • by cduffy (652) <charles+slashdot@dyfis.net> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:51PM (#11949977)
      From the reports I've seen, qemu is VERY slow. Is there an advantage to qemu over coLinux?

      Sure, even when you restrict it to the presently relevant set of cases (x86/Linux inside x86/Win32): coLinux has no (non-experimental) framebuffer support; the experimental version that does exist has its performance measured in seconds per frame. The only way to run X is by having an X server on your Windows box, and you can't run Qt/E or GtkFB or such at all. If you want to do embedded systems development, this can be a substantial issue.

      If you don't restrict yourself to that subset of cases, then QEMU wins on account of having support for far more than just a custom build of the Linux kernel. (Want to play with FreeDOS? Test your new build of of GRUB? Run through the SLES9 installer? The first two of these simply aren't possible in coLinux, and the 3rd one requires a lot of work to make it happen).

      Also, COFS is so experimental/unstable I'm not sure I'd claim it as a feature yet.
      • You can also do X via vnc with colinux. Actually, I was thinking of putting together a knoppix/colinux disk that uses modified cygwin/x and/or vnc (cygwin would need to be modified so that it doesn't need registry entries)
      • The only way to run X is by having an X server on your Windows box,

        CoLinux works like a charm using VNC: you run a VNC server on the Linux side and a VNC client on the Windows side. A side-benefit is that you can actually disconnect from the coLinux process and reconnect later.

        As far as I'm concerned, coLinux is the only way to go for running Linux under Windows these days; it is superior in just about every way to any of the commercial or free solutions.

        If you don't restrict yourself to that subset o
        • Re:use coLinux+VNC (Score:3, Insightful)

          by cduffy (652)

          CoLinux works like a charm using VNC: you run a VNC server on the Linux side and a VNC client on the Windows side.

          VNC is not exactly fast or efficient -- being a local display mechanism isn't what it's designed for, and it shows.

          That's irrelevant for Knoppix. Furthermore, no, I have not wanted to run Freedos or the SLES9 installer.

          I know that. That's why I addressed "the presently relevant set of cases" and a more general situation independantly.

          Every post in this thread I've written from Firefo

  • OP has a torrent (Score:5, Insightful)

    by grendel_x86 (659437) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:46PM (#11949943) Homepage
    Holy crap!!! the Poster actually linked a .torrent, maybe all the complaining actually got somewhere.

    Now only if others would follow.
  • VMWare (Score:4, Funny)

    by F1_Fan (255672) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:46PM (#11949945)
    I like booting Knoppix in VMWare! Same concept.
    • Re:VMWare (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Oriumpor (446718)
      Who's joking? I haven't seen a faster way to get a working test virtualization setup than mounting a Bootable OS ISO (eg: knoppix/slax).
  • Mirrors (Score:2, Informative)

    by Shachaf (781326)
    Here's the Coral Cache [nyud.net] and the Mirrordot Mirror [mirrordot.org].
  • What about CoLinux? (Score:5, Informative)

    by ZehFernando (848954) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:01PM (#11950040) Homepage
    CoLinux is also a very handy package for running linux on windows. It installs linux on a single file on your HD, then runs linux on it, and you can access it throught VNC. So you can have windows and linux sharing the same machine and HD, running at the same time, on different windows. Pretty handy.

    http://www.colinux.org [colinux.org]

    You can use it to run linux from some other partition too. It comes with a version of debian built it, but there are other packages for other distros.

    You can also try topologilinux.

    http://wwwtopologilinux.com [wwwtopologilinux.com]

    It's a bundled installation of coLinux and slackware with all bells and whistles.

  • Currently 9 seeds and 542 peers, this is a good test of torrent scalability. Even if it takes a while to ramp up, this would kill just about any server on the net, kind of amazing how any of this works at all. :-)

    • You know, i have seen naruto torrents with 10000 seeds and 25000 peers and no problem.
      Just like with http, you need a strong enough server. If you have your tracker on a dsl line running on a via c3, not even bittorrent will be able to help you.
  • without the need to reboot. Run them side by side and compare the features.

    It is, after all, emulation, so don't expect to break speed records with it. Also that IP connection limitation in XP won't be broken by running KNOPPIX in an emulator.

    Now KNOPPIX can join the ranks of MacOS 8.1 (BasiliskII), AmigaOS 3.1 (Amiga Forever), as yet another OS emulated under Windows.

    The advantage I see for this is that web developers will finally be able to check how their web pages look under different browsers and operating systems without having to reboot Windows each time they want to look how it looks under Linux.

    The next step is to make KNOPPIX run AntiVirus, AntiSpyware, AntiAdware, and AntiTrojan removal programs and make any FAT32, FAT16, or NTFS partition as read/write so the Malware can be removed. Yet what is the point when you can run the KNOPPIX HD Install script and get rid of Windows and all of its flaws that allow Malware to be installed in the first place.

    P.S. I am moving to KANOTIX now, it seems to be a bit better than KNOPPIX.
  • Are they insane? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Guspaz (556486) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:16PM (#11950137) Homepage
    QEMU is an EMULATOR. They want to demo linux to windows users running under a full blown emulator? I can see it now. "This lunix thing looks nice, but it's just so SLOW!".

    They're going to end up convincing dumb windows users that Linux is slow as hell!

    Before you say anything, keep in mind that they are running QEMU on windows, and the QEMU virtualizer is closed-source and linux only. So they can ONLY do full emulation.
    • by jhoger (519683) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:36PM (#11950253) Homepage
      a) QEMU is all open source. A small part recently added is non-free but still open-source.
      b) QEMU is the fastest (99%) Free emulator, and QEMU is getting faster all the time. There is a strong emphasis on speed by Fabrice
      c) Yes Knoppix will run slower under emulation than natively, and Knoppix doesn't run as fast as a native Linux install. But there are obvious speedups laying around. This looks like a first cut by some developer.

      But I think there is one obvious case where this can be useful, in the particular situation where a machine is locked down so that you can't boot install CDs without a password, and the user does not have admin priveleges. Also, it may be useful for users who aren't willing to boot a Linux CD since they are afraid that it will wipe something out.

      • Z) Wait 6 months, shell out a bit of cash, and have a fully open-source virtualizer [paperlined.org] that runs significantly faster.
        • Re:Are they insane? (Score:3, Informative)

          by jhoger (519683)
          How about not waiting and getting to work on QEMU?

          QEMU has the right emphasis from the beginning. To make something that is fast and usable.

          And that's what it is, on several platforms. It's got the momentum, why divide up resources? QEMU will run on more platforms, and is getting the same virtualization goodies as Xen. The tiny virtualization kernel is open source but non-free till Fabrice can get some funding, but have some faith based on his entire body of Free software contributions that it will also b
          • I don't know... As much as I like to root for the underdog, references like AMD, Intel, IBM, and "6 million [austinpowers.com] dollars" make Xen seem pretty alluring to me.

            Also, from a technical perspective, aren't there concerns over how secure [usenix.org] virtualized machines can be on 2004-era x86 machines?

            • "We conclude that current VMM products for the Intel architecture should not be used as a secure virtual machine monitor.
            • ... Slight modifications to the processor would significantly facilitate development of a highly secure

      • Re:Are they insane? (Score:3, Informative)

        by jhoger (519683)
        Oops... re-read the QEMU site, KQEMU is non-free and closed source. I took away something from KQEMU discussion that was incorrect.

        But the intent as stated by Fabrice is to get sponsorship so that eventually KQEMU can eventually be Free. So, essentially KQEMU module is a kind of ransomware.

        -- John.
    • They're going to end up convincing dumb windows users that Linux is slow as hell!

      Of course, Knoppix already did this, because running and booting from a live cd is painfully slow anyhow. So now the slowness will double (unless it just cancels out, such as by the IO delays happening in parrellel with the CPU emulation lag, somehow)
  • www.knoppix.net (Score:2, Interesting)

    by deutschemonte (764566)
    knoppix.net is really slow and the forum is /.'ed, people must be storming that site with this news out.

    Is this this the first time a site has been /.'ed but not posted on slashdot? I mean, no direct link, everyone just goes there themselves.

    I christen it, the slashdot halo effect.
  • Knoppix on Windows (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jhoger (519683) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:22PM (#11950168) Homepage
    Following the QEMU list, this was done some time back by a Japanese developer Kuniyasu Suzaki I believe.

    Discussions ensued about how to make it faster... some patches are available to directly mount the compressed Knoppix volume so that portion doesn't need to be emulated. Also, the SaveVM feature was improved, so rather than boot knoppix, just keep a compressed VM ram image on the Knoppix CD. That makes it boot instantaneously.

    QEMU is the fastest thing going as far as Free emulators, given more improvements on the virtualization side, I think this will be *the* way to run Knoppix for Windows users that just want to try it out. The speed will come in time.

    Some of us pushed for features like User Mode Networking in QEMU just for this purpose. Windows users in larger corporations often do not have administrator level rights, so they can't install any special drivers. So Knoppix under QEMU can get right to the net on any Windows box that will run a .EXE from CD.

    -- John.
  • Getting close... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by smug_lisp_weenie (824771) * <cbarski.4503440@bloglines.com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:40PM (#11950275) Homepage
    Now all they need to do is add the following ability to make it perfect:

    1. Allow people to apt-get packages while the CD is running. Then...
    2. Import user files from Win into a Knoppix-side directory. Finally...
    3. (this is the important one) Press a button and presto! The system builds an ISO of original winknoppix+packages+userfiles that is a no-fuss super-customized knoppix CD!

    If they could make that... then a seamless transition to Linux goodness would finally be within reach for everyone!
    • My own Salvare [sf.net] is designed to fit into 34MB (the size of the credit-card sized CD-RWs I've got) - and is currently 20MB. The best feature, IMNSHO, is the ability to
      apt-get update && apt-get install foo
      from the running CD into tmpfs. Of course, you can also free the CD, rescue systems etc. etc.
  • Very handy to have. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Chanc_Gorkon (94133) <gorkon@ g m a i l .com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:52PM (#11950340)
    I have used DSL (Damn Small Linux) before and been able to use it on some users machine to log in to the server quickly with my SSH keys all setup on the key. When I am done, I kill it. I love this because I can use it on any machine I have and be able to test scripts and such on my machine without risking any of the stuff on the local machine. Will it run slow? Yeah, but if you have a ton of RAM and speedy processor(preferably 1 GHz or faster) it should run just fine.
  • My workplace won't let me download torrents. We have an anal Network Access Control Policy that not only blocks the ports that bittorrent requires (on a globally routable subnet) but we have snort configured to detect any use of bittorrent. Peer-to-peer applications (all) are banned under our IT access policy and if it's detected, we get our network port disabled.

    Is there an FTP or non-P2P method of which I can grab this file?
  • Does it work? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I just tested the disk on two different systems running a fully patched XP SP2, I get an error 3 lines in to the boot up sequence and it craps out.
  • Knoppix to Windows - Now you can watch me up close, and see how stable I am. I can stay up and running for months.

    Windows to Knoppix: Um, I am carrying you now. I fall, you fall. And my uptime is approaching 24 hours...

    Knoppix( aside ) - And I wonder who thought this matchup was a good idea...
  • Do they have a Bugzilla for this? I was trying to get this going under Windowsand was unable to. I alsonoticed the batch file that comes with this tries to start this with 1 GB of ram. If my machine has 1 GB of ram and I boot Windows and try to get this to run and it asks for 1 GB, I am going to have...issues. :D I have tried 2 separate machines and was unsuccessful to get this to boot in QEMU on windows. DSL works fine. Better then fine. It's worked on almost every PC I tried it on including the sam
  • Maybe I just know a lot of stupid people but if you run linux under windows, your average user won't understand that linux actually replaces windows. A lot of people just assume to see the little magic start button when they power up. Booting directly into linux helps simple folk (in regards to their technological prowess) realize that windows isn't magically built into the hardware and doesn't need to boot for the computer to run.
  • by marko123 (131635) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @03:09AM (#11951195) Homepage
    I did this on XP:
    Downloaded and ran win version of qemu
    Create an image file bigger than your iso using qemu
    Point to your ISO
    Run! (Knoppix took about 8 mins on old PIII laptop)
  • by millette (56354) <robin@@@millette...info> on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @03:09AM (#11951197) Homepage Journal
    Here's another option, designed for a USB key. It runs Firefox, Thunderbird, etc. all in a virtual linux machine. The release is planned to work on GNU/Linux, ms windows and mac os x, although the current release candidate doesn't work on the mac. It also uses qemu, of course. More info: Portable Virtual Privacy Machine [metropipe.net].
  • Knoppix 3.7 couldn't detect my computer's onboard sound, so I couldn't really play around with it for most of the things that I usually do with my PC. Are there any changes or anything that could make this worth downloading and installing, either in Knoppix or in Linux (I believe 3.8 has a newer kernel than 3.7?), or is there possibly anything more I could do with Knoppix 3.7 to get it to work? I tried configuring the sound drivers, but the automatic configuration failed every time and I wasn't willing to c

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