Ohio Wants eBayers to Post $50k Bond 841
MacDork writes "CNNMoney posted a short article this morning about new Ohio regulations set to become effective May 2 this year. If you are in the state and selling on eBay, you will need to pay $200 for a license and post a $50,000 bond or face possible fines and jail time. Getting the license also requires a one-year apprenticeship. When asked to which eBay users this bill applied, the bill's author, Larry Mumper responded with these very specific guidelines.... "It certainly will not apply to the casual seller on eBay, but might apply to anyone who sells a lot.""
I guess I missed something... (Score:5, Interesting)
Seems a bit overdone (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:rediculous (Score:2, Interesting)
auction school (Score:5, Interesting)
and a school to become a licensed seller?
what if i go on a spree, and say, sell like 30 items that i've found in my basement over christmas break? does that constitute as someone who sells more than 'casually'?
Ohio Wants eBayers to Post $50k Bond (Score:2, Interesting)
WTF!?!?! (Score:1, Interesting)
"might apply to anyone who sells a lot" (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously, despite the certain risk of being modded down, Ohio has EVERY right to do this. If you open up a business in Ohio, it has a right to license you. That applies even if you set up your business in your house.
However, I certainly hope they clear up that vague definition before it's enacted!
How does the interstate commerce clause apply? (Score:3, Interesting)
Interesting idea and the law is certainly too vague, but I don't see how this is an interstate commerce issue. Ohio is regulating (or overregulating) its own state's businesses. Its really no different than a local sales tax on restaurants, business license for retailers, etc. This would only become an interstate issue is Ohio required non-Ohio eBayers to register, pay tax, or put up a bond.
Re:... and this why Ohio will always be a sh*thole (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Modded insightful? Gun control stupid? (Score:2, Interesting)
Larry Mumper -- a BG check (Score:5, Interesting)
We have a passel of state Reps I'd describe as "social right wingers" who put up stuff like death penalty legislation every term. They were behind the weapons bill: it was touted as making the law fairer by not leaving it up to individual sheriffs, but really it aimed at allowing more people to carry concealed guns. The bills these folks turn out seem to have been written by 10th graders who were unfamiliar with anything but the skeleton of the issue they're talking about, and they often have unintended consequences.
So, who is this guy?
Senator Larry A. Mumper [state.oh.us], Ohio Senate Republican.
He's listed there as primary sponsor of a couple of other bills, including one that was presented as an "academic bill of rights for higher education." [kenyon.edu] This bill was partly prompted by a story about a kid who wrote a "pro-America" paper and got a bad grade from his teacher... Oops, except the kid's paper was crap [mediamatters.org]; he'd written a 1-page "report" that wasn't up-to-snuff, got a bad grade, and decided it was because he was patriotic that he'd been silenced. The bill itself reads like a wolf in sheep's clothing aimed at "protecting a plurality of opinion" by remaining neutral about crap like "intelligent design." It doesn't spell out how you'd decide when a topic was "controversial" -- gee, an ambiguity that could lead to unintended consequences.
Does this sound like exactly the sort of wingnut I'm seeing in Minnesota? I mean, this is a guy who says his law "might apply to anyone who sells a lot" and "If someone buys and sells on eBay on a regular basis as a type of business, then there is a need for regulation." "As a type of business"? No ambiguity there, is there?
Re:How does the interstate commerce clause apply? (Score:2, Interesting)
Gibbons lost the case and appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, which reversed the decision. The Court held that the New York law was unconstitutional, since the power to regulate interstate commerce, which extended to the regulation of navigation, belonged exclusively to Congress.
Actually Gibbens vs. Ogden was an example of an industry which was already regulated by the federal government. This is a much different case, because the federal government has not yet stepped in to regulate these transactions in this way.
In this case, the law still may be unconstitutional, based on the dormant commerce clause, but as long as the law does not discriminate against foreign commerce (which would certainly be true if it only applied to sellers located in the state, if anything it would then favor foreign commerce), then the court must do a balancing test: does the burden imposed by the law outweigh the benefits.
In this case, I don't know. A $50,000 bond seems quite excessive. But this is an arguable point, and it would be a much less open and shut case than you make it out to be by referencing Ogden.
From an ebay powerseller...this will not work (Score:3, Interesting)
I sell part time, maybe 5 hours a week.
Last year I grossed almost $250 K...that's a quarter million!
Of that I took about 12 K in profit.
Ebay is NOT a very profitable place to operate anymore. People are NOT becoming rich....at least not often.
I can almost understand the $200 license...standard government fines....but why the classes/apprenticeship.
THe ENTIER point of ebay is that THEY are the auctioneer not you. You are simply the provider of the goods you don't actually participate the in auciton itself.
This law is stupid and will only drive income tax revenue from Ohio. I just thank god that I do not live in a state that is considering this.
Re:Modded insightful? Gun control stupid? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not only do Americans tolerate a wide variety of restrictive laws, which vary state by state, they even have to pay for their own guns and ammunition!
Compare this to the Swiss experience.
Every Swiss [stephenhalbrook.com] man, on reaching age 20, is issued with a rifle to keep at home.That rifle is the SIG Strumgeweher (assault rifle) model 1990 (Stgw 90), a selective fire, 5.6 mm rifle with folding skeleton stock, bayonet lug, bipod, and grenade launcher. pic [waffeninfo.net] , pic [swissarms2.ath.cx], Google [google.com]
The Stgw 90 is a real assault rifle in that it is fully automatic.
Gun control dogma claims that this would result in a bloodbath. As usual, the dogma is wrong.
Note also that Mainstream Media avoids reporting on the Swiss gun policy. After all, they don't want to undo all the work they have done for anti-gun forces over the years!
Re:Modded insightful? Gun control stupid? (Score:3, Interesting)
In other words, if you're not a gang member you are more likely to be killed by a legal firearm than an illegal one. That doesn't make "gun control" a workable solution, but it does fly in the face of what most gun activists say.
Re:This won't work...From an ebay powerseller... (Score:4, Interesting)
From any of ebay's crappy, canned e-mail responses: "we are just a venue"
eBay itself went through this 4-5 years ago in California after so many people were complaining to the Attorney General that eBay wasn't registered as an auctioneer (with appropriate bonding and all the liability that goes along with that, which ain't trivial). The AG's ruling was that they didn't have to, as they are not an auctioneer. They are a venue selling in an "auction style format", as ebay puts it, and the AG bought it.
IANAL, but given that ebay isn't a registered auctioneer, it ought not to be too terribly difficult to get judicial review on this in Ohio and have ebay (and other on-line sites like Yahoo's "auctions") ruled not a traditional auction and thus exempt from this mess.
Re:rediculous (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know that much about Ohio's politics, though their position on science education leads me to believe you've got some pretty goofy people running the state.
Re:Imagine the in-humane despair and misery, you m (Score:3, Interesting)
Just a thought.
Re:Modded insightful? Gun control stupid? (Score:4, Interesting)
Kids manhandling their daddys gun and shooting themselves is strictly the fault of the parent - and should not hinder the rest of society. Lock up the freaking gun - they pretty much all come with safety locks. Suicides will kill themselves in a manner of different ways - gun is just easier - but if someone wants to die, nothing can stop them.
The occasional nutjob - how did he get that gun? Legally or illegally?
My gun has another reason to exist - i like to go to the shooting range, it's fun. My friend likes to go hunting pheasant once a year (he does eat them). And, for protection - sorry I am not such a good fighter that I can fend off 2-5 people with bats and knives...however, i am an excellent shot and my 8 bullets can stop 2-5 people quite easily.
And this "screwed up notion" of defending myself comes up because I do not have a police officer next to me at every moment of my life. A police officer does little good to defend my life if he is not there.
Re:rediculous (Score:2, Interesting)
From eBay's website, When you list an item on eBay, you're charged an Insertion Fee.... Based on that, I'd say that it could be argued that you're simply the seller, and eBay is being hired by the seller to function as the auctioneer.
This can be strengthened by pointing out that eBay is the one who handles the bidding process itself, not the seller.
But then again, I may not have any clue what I'm talking about
Re:Typical government stupidity (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Typical government stupidity (Score:2, Interesting)
Mostly because the average voter doesn't spend ANY of his/her time researching the candidates in November....
Re:Typical government stupidity (Score:4, Interesting)
The bill *supposedly* wasn't meant to apply to casual sellers. However, the way it is currently written, it applies to everyone who sells on ebay. They are trying to backpeddle and swear that they are going to revise it, but I really don't buy it.
There are many times that I want to smack our legislaters (I live in Ohio). The amusing thing was that the state rep for where I used to live was a friend of my family's, so I really *could* smack him. =]
Imposing arbitrary licensing law is not a right! (Score:5, Interesting)
States do not have the right to impose arbitrary licensing laws. E.g. Arbitrary licensing laws on hairbraiders, casket sellers, and jitney drivers have been struck down. [ij.org]
The first question to ask when a new licensing scheme is proposed is whether its true motivation is rent seeking [wikipedia.org] rather than consumer protection. I'd be interested to see whether Mr Mumper's has received any recent contributions the from brick and mortar antique seller's lobby.
Re:Modded insightful? Gun control stupid? (Score:3, Interesting)
This is the media that is distorting your view. There are thousands of documented cases a year where a firearm saves lives and prevents crime. I take it you support the V chip and the goverenment telling us what children can watch? I ask this because any time a child gets ahold of a gun it is is a parenting failure.
We're talking an item that has NO other reason to exist than to kill people. Where do we get this screwed up notion that we should be "defending ourselves" instead of the police force that we as society have tasked with that (and they do a damn fine job, I might add)? No other reason to exist then to kill people? Are you really this clueless? There is competive shooting events, just because it isn't your hobby doesn't mean that there aren't thousands of people who enjoy target shooting.
I'd like to know where you got this screwed up notion that police are here to defend us? The job of the police has always been to solve crime, ask just about any police office and they will tell you that there is very little they can do to prevent crime.
Re:Or you agreed w/ everything but the last senten (Score:4, Interesting)
Its a simple fact that the country is full of guns and they arn't going away. Apparently even the British are starting to have problems themselves as the criminals are arming themselves.
Re:Larry Mumper -- a BG check (Score:1, Interesting)
And while you paid attention in American History and Civics, it appears you didn't do so well in Economic. More money and taxes won't necessairly help your "crimes." Look more into the idea of scarcity.
"The first lesson of economics is scarcity: There is never enough of anything to satisfy all those who want it. The first lesson of politics is to disregard the first lesson of economics."
-- Thomas Sowell
Re:Larry Mumper -- a BG check (Score:2, Interesting)
Come on, don't rely on the govt to take care of you. You need to take care of yourself. At a minimum you should have a supply of money and food set aside that can last you for a year. You lose your job? So what, you have a year to find a new one.
Re:Modded insightful? Gun control stupid? (Score:3, Interesting)
Correlate gun ownership rates in any county of the USA with fatal shooting in that county. You'll be surprised.
Hint: the counties with the most restrictive gun-control laws and the lowest rates of gun ownership tend to be up near the top in terms of fatal shootings.
Anecdotal case: Jefferson Parish LA vs. Orleans Parish LA. Two counties (we call them parishes in LA, but they're still counties) that are literally side by side - separated by a canal about 30 feet wide. Populations of both are similar - about 400,000.
Prior to passage of Louisiana's Shall Issue (Concealed Carry) Law, Orleans Parish didn't issue concealed weapon permits, Jefferson Parish did quite freely.
Murder rates in Orleans Parish were on the order of 300 per year.
Jefferson Parish? about 25.
You might also consider Switzerland. Everyone has a fully automatic weapon there. Required by law, as part of their militia system, I understand. Murder rate? Trivially low.
Canada has about the same gun ownership rate the US has (they're just not so noisy about it as we are), but 1/3 our murder rate.
One might also want to consider that looking only at fatal shootings is misleading. Look instead at murders from all causes (after all, it's not really desirable to remove guns if all we do is make sure that more people are killed with baseball bats than previously).