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Cultural Blinders Lead to Nintendo Fallacy 92

Posted by Zonk from the interesting-analysis dept.
obchrisj writes "A week long, unscientific poll on FileFront found 61% agreeing with the notion that Nintendo will soon be "going the way of Sega." In an editorial on their website, they ask Nintendo reps and industry analysts what the future of Nintendo really is, taking a glance at the DS, GameCube, and Revolution consoles. Slashdot recently reported on poor sales performance for Nintendo's GameCube. From the editorial: 'According to O'Rourke, Nintendo's U.S. market position has conditioned North American gamers to believe the company's global fortunes are equally down. Such "Nintendo is dying!" hysteria is largely a product of this cultural tunnel vision.'"
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Cultural Blinders Lead to Nintendo Fallacy More

Cultural Blinders Lead to Nintendo Fallacy

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  • Warcraft confirms (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    *Nintendo is dying.

  • Nintendo (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Prien715 ( 251944 ) <agnosticpope@@@gmail...com> on Monday January 24, 2005 @11:42AM (#11455808) Journal
    Nintendo has made some really great games, the only thing lacking in their console as far as I'm concerned is internet multiplayer, but that's why I have my PC anyway.

    Abroad, I think people are much more concerned with a good core single plater experience or in-the-same-room multiplayer. With titles like Mario Party, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, and Metroid Prime 2, I still can't think of a console I'd rather use to play against 3 of my friends.

    • Re:Nintendo (Score:4, Informative)

      by Firehawke ( 50498 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @11:48AM (#11455887) Journal
      The Cube IS somewhat lacking in the 3rd party stuff, but I can't argue the party gaming aspect. F-Zero GX and Smash Bros get a lot of group play here.

      I just wish Nintendo would get off their asses and figure out how to make online gaming work for them. Hell, I'd just about kill for a Phantasy Star Online version that does local network and online play on the DS, but the DS apparently doesn't even have a TCP/IP stack.

      Nintendo could probably even rake in cash off a Pokemon MMORPG if they really tried, but there's nothing even resembling online innovation from them right now.

      Not that they're really missing all THAT much with the sheer asshat factor I see on X-Box Live and PS2 gaming. You can't avoid the idiots..
      • You can't avoid the idiots

        You certainly can avoid the idiots, and Nintendo's been doing just that. Everyone here is aware that Nintendo's main goal is to make great games, and they tend to succeed in that endeavor, even if it means only one or two games worth playing come out each year. The other thing we're all aware of is Nintendo's lack of enthusiasm as far as online gaming is concerned. What I think some of us are missing is that online gaming is filled with idiots, and Nintendo knows this. Now,
    • Missing online gaming is a killer. I really wish I could update my rosters in Madden 2005 like I can on the PS2 at work.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I dont believe any analyst as a rule of tomb some kinda make sense but most of them are innacurate and a big number of them are cluless and they are banking on the popularity of the product Nintendo is putting out to make some money talking about it, otherwise they would have no jobs.

    The console wich is dying and on life support are Xbox , Game cubes may not outsale the Playstations , but its still a box wich come with many games people whant to play.

    The Nintendo system of yester year whas great because i
    • X-Box is on life support..

      Actually, I think you're right. Locally, local movie/rental shops are about to drop the X-Box from their shelves. And local sales of X-Box games are fairly..well..slow.

      But X-Boxes themselves still go fast. Why? They're cool. But you might only have 2 or 3 games for it..Halo maybe Halo 2 and a Madden game. And that's about it.

      And the profit comes from game sales. From what I can tell, Nintendo is making more money than Microsoft. So I doubt Nintendo is going to go the way of Sega
      • I swore I saw X-box games go on sale for $10 the last time I was at Best Buy. Mind you, these were probably old titles, but surely this undercuts the lowest price for old PS2 games? I've never seen a classic PS2 game("greatest hits" or whatever) go for under $20.

  • Is it "beleaguered" already?
    I am really glad that I invested in the shares of a certain "beleaguered" company [apple.com] a few years ago, when their shares were around 18$ (now around 70).
    Maybe I should buy Nintendo stock now.
    • Heh, everyone keeps on predicting their end, but how many dying companies do you know that are making cash fist over fist. Nintendo has had 1 operating quarter in it's HISTORY where they had a loss, and a large part of that is them not playing the currency game correctly and getting burned on a weak dollar(or strong yen, depending on how you look at it).
      Sega was loosing a lot of cash before they decided to call it quits in the console market.
    • Maybe you should also invest in Kmart, Sears, JDS Uniphase, and Lucent.

      Most "beleaguered" companies never fully recover. Just because scrappy underdogs always win in sports movies doesn't mean you should invest in shit stocks.

      But it's your money...

  • Hype Machines (Score:5, Insightful)

    by clu76 ( 620823 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:12PM (#11456169) Homepage
    Nintendo got caught in the middle of two of the world's largest hype machines, Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is big, but those companies are huge in comparison. They had the ability to come out and market their systems in ways not possible before. And if you still believe the cube is for kiddies, then you too fell for the hype.

    That being said, I don't think Nintendo is going the way of Sega. They are still way to profitable, for that to happen.

    • Re:Hype Machines (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ayersrj ( 701333 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:18PM (#11456243)
      I agree. It's really a lot about marketing, and also control on the retail level. Open up your Sunday ads in the paper today. Sure you may see a small corner hyping the Gamecube plus probably Resident Evil 4, and maybe another game or two.

      Look across the page and you'll see half of a page dedicated to both the XBox and the PS2, hyping Halo 2, GTA, Mercenaries, and a lot of crappy drivel that gets released for both.

      It's been like this for well over a year, but retail has shown a great deal of favortism to PS2 and XBox, long before Cube fell to a distant 3rd int he market. Same thing happened with Dreamcast as well. I wonder if video game companies pay for placement like consumer products do in grocery stores?

      • . . .retail has shown a great deal of favortism to PS2 and XBox, long before Cube fell to a distant 3rd

        I can't speak for Wal-Mart or Best Buy, but at EB Nintendo paid to be EB's "VOM," or Vender of the Month, at least as much as Microsoft and many more times than Sony. I managed an EB when all the systems came out, and if there really was favoritism towards any particular system it was because it was selling well. Come end of school in May-June, the Gameboy games would get the most wall space. But com
        • I'm sure in the case of a place like Best Buy, it's also advantageous to help the people Microsoft and Sony who also provide a massive amount of your revenue outside of the Video Gaming industry.

          Interesting stuff on the vendor of the month stuff. The thing is the Gameboy and Gamecube sections of every EB I've ever been in have ALWAYS been the smallest. Of course I'm sure the front of the store is where the real "sellable" shelf space is.

          Funny note on the EB thing. I went to one in Providence, RI the d
          • According to them it was the next "Grand Theft Auto." At least that's what they told every single person who walked into the store when I was there.

            Sounds like VOM to me. Certainly gag me, in the gag me of corporate culture kind of way - but the clerks are just people making sucky wages like everyone else. Watch come Spring Break and when school lets out for summer, and the gameboy game section will usually take the front of the store for about 2-4 weeks. In the meantime, here's how to tell VOM at an
    • "And if you still believe the cube is for kiddies, then you too fell for the hype."

      What are Nintendo's primary franchises? How are they portrayed? What gets the most marketing from Nintendo?

      The bright, colorful, seizure-inducing colors and januty music of Mario Sunshine/Golf/Tennis/Racing/Chess series, cute and happy Link, Kirby, Pokemon, etc. etc. etc.

      The vast majority of Nintendo's franchises (which are the only real reason Nintendo has any marketshare at all) are very "family friendly", or "kiddie",
      • For the most part, Nintendo makes family friendly games. So you might have had a point if Nintendo was the only company making games for the cube. But they aren't.

        Some violent games for the cube, off the top of my head: Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness, Mortal Kombat, Blood Rayne, Metal Gear Solid, Metal of Honor, Red Faction II, XIII, True Crime, Prince of Persia, etc etc etc...

        My two favorite movies last year were Dawn of the Dead and the Incredibles. The latter may be view by children, that doesn'
    • Nintendo *is* for kids, man. Even the controller seems designed for kids, it's small, and shaped wrong. The games are all Mario this and that, and Donkey Kong, and Super Monkey Balls, with the dumb monkeys in the balls looking for bananas. Compare that to Halo and Grand Theft Auto and Mercenaries. I own all three consoles, and I've sold all my Gamecube games on eBay, because they were all for kids and not for me.

  • Marketing is a bit of a problem too... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by redivider ( 786620 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:17PM (#11456233)
    Aside from a few games, namely Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 2, and that last Zelda game (4 swords or whatever), you don't see too much mainstream marketing for GameCube games. And even then, I think sometimes they miss the mark. The ads for MP2 were pretty lame. They focused on the fact that Samus is female and then showed like 5 seconds of actual gameplay. It's one thing to try to sell Extreme Beach Volleyball by playing up the naked chicks, but Metroid? Yeah she's a female, but its not really obvious in the gameplay and you never really see her in the game since its in first person perspective.

    For the PS2 and Xbox, though, I see ads for even the most obscure games. That probably has a lot to do with the fact that those consoles have more third-party support. But as far as public perception goes, it just makes it seem like the GameCube isn't as good. Not to me, but I know a lot of people who just assume because they hardly see any commercials that there aren't any good games.

    Everyone I know has a PS2. I know 2 people that have Xbox and (now) 2 people that have GameCube. After 2+ years or raving about Metroid Prime, Eternal Darkness, Zelda, and the Resident Evil games, I finally convinced one other person to get a GameCube. I think Resident Evil 4 was the one that did it. And deservedly so... It's an amazing game. But I can't blame Capcom for probably regretting the decision to go exclusive with the GameCube. You can safely assume that RE4 would sell twice as many copies on the PS2... which is why it's eventually coming out on Sony's console.

    Even the game publishers/developers don't seem to have faith in the GameCube. And I'm not sure I do either. I have complete faith in Nintendos ability to make great games. I've consistently had all around better experiences with more GameCube games than anything else in the past couple years. But I'm really starting to agree that they're heading in the wrong direction and if they go too far, won't be able to come back.

  • Nintendo, with their boatloads of money from their new [nintendo.com] and old games (and enforcing their copyrights [nintendo.com]) is probably like their own Mario.

    If they die, I'm sure they'll just drop offscreen and go down to 2 lives from 3.

  • Purple console needs food badly! Gauntlet references aside, I think it's not all Nintendo's fault. It has plenty of good games available for the Gamecube, it's just that with the XBox and PS2 out there people aren't going to want to buy 3, and the purple box just doesn't look so appealing at first. It's got some great games, but it's going to be tough buying a silly little cube from Fry's while your friend walks out with a green and black console that looks like it devours worlds.

  • The big Nintendo problem... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by CashCarSTAR ( 548853 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:36PM (#11456531)
    The biggest problem that Nintendo has it this. In order to compete on Nintendo's system, you have to beat Nintendo itself. And that's hard. You have to beat Metriod Prime 1 and 2, you have to beat Smash Brothers, you have to beat Wind Waker, and so on. It's hard. So either you do a multi-platform series, just to make it a must-play, a big title.

    But what the Gamecube is lacking is the big 3rd-party exclusives. But the ones that are there..well..they tend to be either big or small. Big games, like Resident Evil 4, or little games like Ikaragua seem to get the best return.
    • Nintendo is now starting to give out franchises to third parties in an attempt to woo them. Namco made StarFox Armada and Donkey Konga. Sega made F-Zero GX. Capcom made Zelda: Four Swords. Nintendo is even handling publishing duties for some SquareEnix games. Nintendo has decided to share the spotlight on their consoles. It took them about mid-way through the current console cycle to do this. If they are willing to do this from the Revolution's launch, they should be in a better third-party situation this t
    • "You have to beat Metriod Prime 1 and 2, you have to beat Smash Brothers, you have to beat Wind Waker, and so on. It's hard."

      I think you're overblowing this a little. Sure, we can probably give a little credit to Nintendo for scaring Acclaim off the console, but with the risk also comes great rewards; when a game is good, the GameCube version of that game consistently sells better than the PS2 or Xbox version, even though raw numbers suggest that the PS2 should do better. Even gamers that own both a GC
    • Was this true on the SNES, when several companies such as Squaresoft were making some of their best games? Or how about on the NES, where several 3rd parties got their start with some of their most beloved frachises? Keep in mind these games competed with Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, just like they do now - and those games are considered to be even better than their Gamecube decendents. You don't have to beat Nintendo to do good on their systems, you just have to make good games. If the 3rd parties made more
  • for netcraft.

    incidentally, i for one am tired of games involving overweight italian plumbers.

  • Apple and BSD are dying, too...

    Yet they are as strong as they ever were.

  • nintendo is still the financial leader (Score:3, Informative)

    by ShawnMcCool42 ( 557138 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @01:18PM (#11457090)
    Why would they trade in that part of the market share? They're making money off each console being sold. That's more than you can say about Sony and Microsoft.

  • Nintendo (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Sylver Dragon ( 445237 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @01:43PM (#11457458) Journal
    Nintendo's biggest enemy seems to be Nintendo. One of the things that Nintendo did very well was market to kids. The problem is, now they have a bunch of people trained to equate Nintendo with kid's games. PS2, on the other hand, went after the late teen and young adult market. So many people are stuck with the Nintendo=Kids, PS2=Adults mentality. While this isn't really true anymore, Nintendo is stuck trying to undo the marketing of the past. Plus, the Nintendo 64 was a dud. I was one of the people to get one early on, I liked Super Mario 64, and had seen some adds for some interesting 3rd party games. Nintendo was screwed by the third party developers in some cases, and the games just didn't materialize for the N64. In the end, I think I owned about 4 games for thr system, because I couldn't find anything on the system which appealed to me. I finally bought a Playstation used, and got more games for it than I did for my N64. When the time to choose between the PS2 and the GameCube came along, I wasn't willing to touch another new Nintendo product, I got a PS2, and have been very happy with it.
    Funny aside to that. I went to the E3 where Nintendo and MS were announcing their respective systems. At the time the PS2 looked like it was in trouble. All it had were a bunch of remakes and sequals to show. Then we walked into the Nintendo area, which was a teaming mass of people. We got to see such wonderful titiles as Super Smash Brothers, Pikman, Star Fox Adventures, Rouge Squadron (whatever incarnation), and Luigi's Haunted Mansion. It looked pretty good, though mostly aimed at kids. Lastly we hit the Xbox area, and got to see very little. They had some sort of skiing game and a water based shooter. The graphics were pretty but I just didn't see a killer game on it. The GameCube looked poised to win the war. Now I own a PS2 (which I thought to be the worst in show), the Xbox still has zero interest from me, and the GameCube is only now a consideration since I've watched a friend play Metroid Prime.
    Somehow I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere, they've got a ton of cash, lots of brand recognition, and they are finally starting to win the battle against their previous image. Sure, they may go through a few slow years/systems, but I'm expecting that they will end up beating Microsoft in the end.

    • Nintendo is for Kids (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Shihar ( 153932 )
      I tend to agree that people equate Nintendo with kids. Hell, I think that the perception is actually somewhat correct. True, Nintendo has its grown up games, but not many. GTA3 is the reason why I bought my PS2. I want a grown up game complete with violence and cursing. As cute as Mario and a cute little cartoon Zelda is, it simply isn't what I want.

      Maybe I should look a little harder, but as far as I can tell, Nintendo promotes cartoons. The few exceptions to the rule are FPS - which I would never b
      • The thing I don't understand is the way people equate "fun for kids" with "unfun for adults". There are some GameCube and GBA games that I have no interest in, particularly the crappy license games like Yu-Gi-O and Zone of the Enders, but most of the "kiddy games" are top knotch. Animal Crossing is a fabulous game, despite there being no way to describe it that doesn't make it sound boring and stupid. Ribbit King is great, as are most of the Mario games. Advance Wars 2 has some annoying dialog, but it's
        • I agree that swearing, blood, etc. are not required for adult games. What tends to get me with Nintendo games these days is that all of the characters tend to look like kids. Not just teenagers, but little kids. And the dialogue isn't much better. I understand that there might be a bit of a cultural disconnect here, I'm beginning to think that the Japaneese audiance likes melodrama. Personally, I find it annoying. It should probably be noted at this point that this was one of the large factors which m
        • I am an adult. I like adult games. Sure, I can sit through Lion King and to some extent enjoy it, but I would much rather watch Band of Brothers. It isn't so much that kids games are not fun, but more that they can't touch on themes and setting that I enjoy. I like gritty, violent, and edgy games. That isn't to say that the first game to throw a gallon of blood over my screen is going to get my money, but a game that holds back a gallon of blood just to keep it kid appropiate is a little irksome.

          My gi
      • The thing that I always find funny is that people think all the cursing, violence and other "adult" stuff is aimed at adults. The only people in the world that real care that much are teen boys. I'm not saying that those things are always bad, there are games that use them very well, to bring out realism and enhance the gameplay, but for the most part, they are thrown in simply for the "cool to teen boys" factor. And this is primarily why I think the Gamecube is best adult console availible right now. T
    • I don't own a Gamecube or Xbox, but I have two PS2's One has a Linux kit in it (and that's all it does is run Linux) and the other has the FFXI HD in it and is just for games. I have 32 titles for it.

      The reason I don't own a Gamecube (yet) is because I can think of only 3 games that I would want to play on it. The two Metroids and Animal Crossing. Admittedly I'll probably buy one used cheap in the future like how I didn't buy an N64 till after the Gamecube was out.

      Something similar applies for the Xbox,
  • there's an internet poll saying 61 percent of americans think the War in Iraq is a good deal, but you don't see that posted on slashdot. Why should this be any different?

    If I poll forums.nintendo.com and write an editorial how Xbox is teh d00med, can I get it posted?

  • WTF is FileFront? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JaseOne ( 579683 )
    FileFront had a poll and produced a result and I am supposed to take it as gospel why exactly?

    I've never heard of FileFront before and I'm quite the internet junkie so how in any way what so ever do they represent Nintendo's marketshare? Nintendo's target market isn't Slashdotters and the like and I'm sorry folks but we're in the minority, just think Pokemon.
  • Sony and Microsoft's fortunes may fluctuate as they fight each other, but Nintendo will always have that core group of gamers. They're like the Apple of the console world. (They even have their iPod-like success story, the Gameboy Advance.)

    I do think that Nintendo's next console needs to be something special, and that they should diversify into new game series in addition to continuing the old ones. Animal Crossing and Pikmin/Pikmin 2 are their two major contributions to gaming this generation, both ama

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