Massive Layoffs At AOL 565
JLavezzo writes "Several news sites are reporting that the United States' largest ISP has laid off 750 employees. My sources at AOL put the actual number at approximately 950 regular employees and 300 contractors from various departments including new technology and marketing. The contractors aren't mentioned by the news outlets. Severance packages are known to include up to four months pay and keeping laid off employees on the AOL payroll through February (to retain health insurance). With most of the layoffs coming from the Northern Virginia offices, what are their hopes for finding new jobs?"
Not good news (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:5, Interesting)
They had 3 programmers working on winamp, he never did work on winamp, only shoutcast.
They also had a visualization skin programmer too.
They were all fired, and he's the only one left, and sole programmer of Winamp now.
I've brought several bugs to his attention, but he just can't keep up doing it all alone..
He tells me that he expects nullsoft to be terminated soon because it's definately not making them any money. He says the only reason AOL bought them was so they could compete with Media player if they decided to push advertising for it. Kind of like netscape competing with IE.
I asked him what he'd do if he's fired... he said he's probably start delivering pizza again, cause he's looked and looked for a job to transfer to and can't find one.
He worked for Pheonix bios for several years, and if you have that bios your system is likly running code he's written.
Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Admittedly, as I'm cleared, I have a far easier time finding work in DC Metro, but this area is about as recession-proof as it gets. . .
Yeah, clearances help, but Homeland Security is hiring people, either directly or as contractors, by the metric butt-load. DOD is growing, as are some new dot-coms in Northern Virginia.
Now, if you're in Marketing or Biz Dev, it may be another story. . . .
But the good news is... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:AOL's too expensive (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:"Massive"? Kids these days. (Score:2, Interesting)
He can't get a job, thats nothing.. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Speaking of "welcome to 2000" (Score:3, Interesting)
Now I don't think Raven ever much thought about Hiro except when Hiro made himself a target. Hiro chased him down in the bamboo farm, Raven didn't even bother to see if his impromtu spear hit paydirt. At the raft, Raven only showed up long enough to kill the with man with Reason, the only one Raven saw as a threat. Sure, he tried to give Hiro the virus at the Black Pyramid, but he was trying to give every hacker the virus. The point is, while Raven was a major factor to Hiro, Hiro was barely a blip on Raven's scope. The only fight that occured was the virtual one that Raven eventually fiured out he didn't need to fight to win (And Raven did win, the Virus program was kicked off. Raven hadn't been told to stop Hiro from dropping his anti-virus).
YT, well now I see why Raven has "Poor Implulse Control" tatooed on his forehead.
Re:Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:1, Interesting)
It depends on which division of Homeland Security you work for. I worked for FEMA before and after it was swallowed up by DHS. From a union standpoint it sucks in that the Bush administration was successful in busting the federal employee's union. Otherwise, if you don't mind peddling fear it is a great job.
Same story, same holiday, different year (Score:1, Interesting)
- Arbitrary, usually laying off good people on succesful projects that show lots of promise (e.g. WinAmp).
- Timely. This is two (or is it three?) years in a row they've done the "oops, we're not as profitable as we need to be for Q4 so let's shitcan some folks" thing right before X-mas. Happy Holidays!!!
- Generous. Last year they offered the rank-n-file folks 2 months notice + 2 months severence. Managers got 4 months severence plus the full "Manager Incentive Bonus" (~3 months salary, I believe). Plus any accrued vacation is paid off, of course. Sounds like they're doing the same again this year.
- Great for morale. I was in a group of ~15 people that lost half their team last year. 12 months later, all but 1 of the remaining team is somewhere else, or actively looking for a job.
And, yes, I was laid off last year, and couldn't have been happier about it. It's a hell of a lot harder to find a company willing to pay for a 5-7 month vacation than it is to find another job.And to top it all off, all the AOL options that have been issued for the last 5 years are worthless and likely to stay that way, so nobody's crying over the loss of those.
NOVA is pretty good for IT (Score:2, Interesting)
Good, this will improve the lives of many employee (Score:5, Interesting)
This is how it goes: normally, it's your first "real" tech job. Before this, you were the guy your friends and relatives called for help. In my case, it was my first job, ever. No McDonalds, no BK or Gap, or Orange Julius in the mall. Straight to the tech world. Your parents will be so proud.
Then you actually start working there. The hell that is (nearly) 24/7 tech support with some of the dumbest people, both coworkers and customers, is nearly endless. You realise how large and illiterate most of America (nay, the world) really is. Not computer illiterate, the plain' old fashion kind.
You enjoy the banana splits every time the stock splits, but you're a part time employee 'cause you're workin' your way though school. So you don't get any stock. Your fellow coworkers try to plan a coup and go on strike, form a union or something (which is strictly forbidden in the contract agreement). But it falls flat and you watch some good men and women go down. You get a small promotion.
Then you get sucked into the workload, dumping your calls at 7 minutes, 'cause hey, you have an average call time to maintain. Fuck being helpfull, if granny's PC is taking too long to boot or you thought you'd try to blindly import her mail from Eudora or Caldera on an OS7 Mac, tough shit. She gets the dreaded call transfer.
By trying out some of our special offers, she can get a month of free service. No really, it is a good deal. The trust that we've maintained over the last 6 minutes is a great thing to shatter with that "please hold." Hopefully she'll hang on the line just long enough that she'll be the 10th tel-save today, lest your boss compare your marketing transfer scores to the woman with the honey-sweet voice a few cubes down.
Screw women, this is where you become a man. A hardened, overtly-bitter and disgruntled man. You also hone your skills in down pat. Everything can be done with your eyes closed "sleeping" at your desk, or shooting nerf balls at the hottie down the row. Don't worry, she'll never know it was you. The security guy at the front desk might, though.
It only takes a few months to hate all people and computers. But at 17-24 years of age it will look damn fine on your resume. Future employers will go "wow, AOL, huh?! How'd you like that?"
And like Michael Bolton, you'll tell them it was great. And you can't really pick out your favorite moment.
As for people over the age of 30 wearing birkenstocks or tie-dyed shirts, please don't. It's just sad. We know you like your Mac. It says so right on your shirt. And no, you're not really "the" mac daddy. But nice try.
Anyways, you needed a goot boot in the pants to get you into a "real" tech job. Because by now, you realise that AOL isn't. So mourn for a few days, then get your ass in gear. You've got Interviews.
The WARN Act (Score:5, Interesting)
Having been through a "massive layoff" in the bubble-burst days, one nice thing was that there exists the WARN act which dictates that if a company of at least certain size (which I'm sure Time Warner is) is laying off more than 50 people in one metropolitan area, they are obligated to give 2 months notice. For us this turned out to be two additional months to the severance, since the management doesn't really want you to show up at the office once you've been given your notice.
Overall this is bad news, since this area (VA/DC/MD) has now pretty much two kinds of techies - those who have clearance, and those who are unemployed, and the AOL layoffs sure do not help.
Expectations of a McJob-SOHO (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's see. You are a Windows administrator
(probably with an MSCE cert), and have a
security clearance.
Guess what? Since DHS has settled on MS
OSes (read some irony here), AND you have
a security clearance, then I wouldn't wonder
that you are getting calls from headhunters
every day.
I have been staring at the VERY SAME "WP" job
postings from government contractors for the
past 1-1/2 years: the same title, job code,
location, and scope of duties == same job,
which cannot get filled because they are
looking for current active TS/Poly/Lifestyle
security clearances. These contractors will
not hire uncleared personnel and "park" them
somewhere until they get vetted for the security
clearance (in 1-1/2 years and $50K USD later).
If you are a "*nix" administrator w/o a security
clearance, you are SOL. I should know. While
I did come from desktop & server support, I had
spend 7+ years on various "*nix" (HP, SGI, SUN,
linux) servers and workstations as SA (plus CM
and Deployment). Those jobs ARE NOT here anymore.
I don't know what the RIFfed AOL employees will
wind up doing for employment, but at least they
have some breathing room with the 4 months pay.
They could make a gamble and go into debt to go
back to school, but I wouldn't recommend that
personally. IMHO, the IT job situation is ONLY
going to get worse (along with any high tech or
many manufacturing positions.) And between the
growing national debt and the horrendous balance
of trade deficit, I expect the the old halcion
days of the Carter administration will come back
to haunt us -- with the state of the economy
measured as the "misery index" (of unemployment
rate, interest rates, and inflation rate).
The Federal government has embraced outsourcing
as "good for the economy", with a corporate tax
structure that encourages moving jobs offshore.
The destruction of trade unions, as well as
forcing USA wages lower, appears to be the agenda.
BTW: When the unemployment runs out, the jobless
do stop getting counted. And one part-time
McJob is just as good statistically as the IT
job lost. What we are witnessing is the slow
disintegration of the USA's middle class.
Re:Drug tests! (Score:2, Interesting)
I must say that I am suprised you got past adjucation with that attitude toward drug use. They tend to not like anything more than experiementation in the softer drugs (weed). When did you get your clearance?
For anyone wondering why people get clearances denied, this site [defenselink.mil] can give you a pretty good idea on the general reasons people are denied clearances.
Hey, I *am* a mormon (Score:2, Interesting)
About a year ago, I was talking with a US Army recruiter [goarmy.com] about enlisting in the US Army [army.mil]. I got as far as MEPS [army.mil]. I passed the ASVAB and the physical, but they denied me enlistment after the security interview, which started out as a 10-page written questionnaire.
I answered "yes" to several questions that they wanted me to answer "no" to, but there were two that especially seemed to require a lot of "further clarification":
- On the last page, just before a long affirmation about "this knowledge is true to the best of my knowledge and belief...", etc., etc., there was a question about like "Have you ever [...] misused [...] an information-technology resource?" I said "yes", and mentioned something that hadn't made my teachers happy during high school, about nine years before; I later found out that the high-school's disciplinary records have been destroyed from that time. However, if you think about it, downloading an illegal copy of a popular song off KaZaa is a forbidden use of an information-technology resource; I suspect the majority of the kids who did that stuff in Abu Ghraib had been regular KaZaa users...
- The other thing was that I had visited a professional counsellor or therapist several times, all within a year or two, plus or minus, of the computer-related incident. They decided to totally misread the examining doctor's statement for something that was not in the record, and disqualify me as medically unfit by reason of depression (apparently). Of course, perhaps a college graduate who wants to join the Army is crazy. It may be that anyone who wants to join the Army has a little something wrong with them...
Just to answer certain questions in advance: Yes, I observe the Word of Wisdom [lds.org] (sorry about the JavaScript-wrapped text); drug use has always been a complete non-issue. No, I do not beat my wife. That's right, I did not go to BYU [byu.edu]; I went to MSU [msu.edu] instead, and they do not have an honor code that requires clean-shavenness. I know the Army has a dress code, and I told the recruiter that I would be perfectly willing to abide by it once enlisted; I had obeyed a similar dress code for two years as a missionary. Yes, I should probably be doing something else besides responding in detail to five-hour-old Slashdot postingsActually, I'm not.. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
In other words, I'm NOT a one-trick pony. I style myself a "Network and Systems Admin", NOT a Unix admin or a Windoze admin. Flexibility is the key word here: pick up new skills as you go along, blend them in to the portfolio. And, unlike a lot of people, it wasn't "below me" to work for Club Fed during the go-go Dotcom days.
Re:Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Tech jobs in Northern Virginia ?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have no issue leaving the US, perhaps you can explain to me which country wants to make me a citizen the second I hit their land so I can get a job without issue. Moving to another country to find a job when you are disadvantaged (being a non-national) and there are still an abundance of employable locals is not a desirable situation for anybody. The reason people flocked to america wasnt just jobs it was quality of life and freedom as well. There were tons of jobs available back in the day. People came here and got entry level jobs because the majority of the people here were already employed.
Take a look at the countries with major economic growth. China and India might be growing fast but they are still decades away from being anywhere near having depleted their labor resources or pricing themselves out of the market. Thats the true problem, right now the hotbeds for jobs are decades behind the rest of the world in most respects. The quality of life here is going down, the quality of life there is going up slowly. The question is where the two will meet. What if the quality of life world-wide is poverty ? I dont see a rosy future the way the global economy is heading.
Of course I am a pessimist.