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Communications

Skype + Kazaa = ? 163

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the you-can-chat-with-the-pirates dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Kazaa has now embedded Skype in their v3.0 download." This isn't a surprising pairing, and it adds millions of VoIP users to the network ... the article also notes that this might bring out the spammers as well.
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Skype + Kazaa = ?

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  • by gad_zuki! (70830) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:19AM (#10936874)
    I'll be able to get calls from random strangers asking for songs? I guess I could sing them a few bars.
    • Re:So this means... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by TheMediaWrangler (817300) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:56AM (#10937017)
      Skype uses 256-bit encryption, so the only easy way to intercept this kind of voice data would be to do it before it is encrypted by bundling Skype in an evil wrapper application like say... KAZAA
      • Re:So this means... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Zeinfeld (263942)
        Skype uses 256-bit encryption, so the only easy way to intercept this kind of voice data would be to do it before it is encrypted by bundling Skype in an evil wrapper application like say... KAZAA

        256 bit encryption does not mean guaranteed secure, the crypto has to be done right..

        But you have a good point about Kazaa, companies that make software whose primary purpose is helping folk to rip off copyright holders may be popular with the folk who they help but tend to be 'ethically challenged' in other w

        • Re:So this means... (Score:2, Interesting)

          by JPriest (547211)
          FYI, the company [skype.com] that made Kazaa also made Skype.
        • by brianosaurus (48471) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @04:32PM (#10938796) Homepage
          ...companies that make software whose primary purpose is helping folk to rip off copyright holders ...

          I'm so tired of this.

          The labels in the UK just announced they've had their best earnings ever. US music labels have increased revenue even while decreasing the quantity (and quality) of releases. If anyone is getting ripped off, its the consumers NOT the music companies.

          Downloads are an excellent way to preview music before you buy, so you can spend your $15 on music you know you will enjoy instead of being disappointed. Happy consumers will likely purchase more than those who get repeatedly burned buying 1-hit wonders.

          Not all p2p software is backed by unethical companies, and a lack of ethics isn't unique to that industry by any stretch of the imagination. The RIAA has hardly been ethical with their scare tactics.

          I do agree with your comment about the government.
          • "Not all p2p software is backed by unethical companies..." Not to be too picky, but he didn't say anything about p2p software. He specifically targets the companies that make the software. When there is no financial interest in the software, as in Gnutella and other Libre software, there is no implication of unethical intent. At least, not in his post. Cheers.
          • I'm so tired of this. The labels in the UK just announced they've had their best earnings ever. US music labels have increased revenue even while decreasing the quantity (and quality) of releases. If anyone is getting ripped off, its the consumers NOT the music companies.

            I never said that the record companies are not ripping off consumers. Clearly they are, the DVD zone scheme is simply a criminal price fixing scheme to artificially keep the prices of DVDs high in Europe. The labels have had a wrist slap

        • Re:So this means... (Score:3, Informative)

          by anethema (99553)
          The crypto is, in this case, mostly done right.

          It uses i believe a 2kbit RSA pub/priv key system to exchange the 256 bit AES key (i say believe because i might be wrong about the bit length).

          I say mostly done right because I'm not sure if there is a way to exchange pub/priv keys in person or thru any other way than just adding someone to your list. This may make it possible for someone to trick you into adding the wrong person, then doing a man in the middle attack on the diffie hellman exchange. Its pret
        • DO you work for the MPAA or RIAA or something?

          How can you believe that crap when UK/US record sales have reached an all time high this year.

          Skype is just written by the guys who wrote Kazaa.
    • Re:So this means... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Mantorp (142371) <mantorp 'funny A' gmail.com> on Sunday November 28, 2004 @10:43AM (#10937202) Homepage Journal
      on regular skype if you accept calls from everyone and list yourself in the directory random people will call you all the time
  • by SYSS Mouse (694626) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:22AM (#10936889) Homepage
    People using Kazaa in most cases would just leave Kazaa running in background and not bother using the messaging function. If they really want to chat to his peers, those DLers probably already know IRC which is in most cases, IRC is faster. Not to mention VoIP will compete for bandwidth from local computer, making both program slower.
    • No, the average Kazaa user wouldn't know about IRC.
      • by Anonymous Coward
        Exactly. Kazaa is mainstream, irc is not.

        On the otherhand, while users of Freenet would be aware of irc, they'd probably consider it to be far too lacking in security.
    • Pardon my cliche, but most people I know who use Kazaa wouldn't know what IRC is if it bit them on the ass. I'm at a college, and, out of all my friends here, three know IRC: a goth, a metalhead, and a linux nerd; none of them use Kazaa, and neither do I. Face it, IRC's pretty damn geeky, and I'd rate the vast majority of current Kazaa users would give a blank, bovine stare if you said, "EFNet."

      BTW, is there any way to get Kazaa to not install a metric ton of adware, so I can stop yelling at people to not

      • There used to be a Kazaa Lite version that didn't have all the crap in it but it seems hard to find these days. You could try Soulseek [slsknet.org] it's totally spyware/adware free and pretty decent.
      • BTW, is there any way to get Kazaa to not install a metric ton of adware, so I can stop yelling at people to not install it?

        Sure there is. You shell out $20 or so for the add-free "pro" version.

        Face it, IRC's pretty damn geeky.

        It depends on when you got started and where your interests lie. I've been using mIRC since '96 and know users who are in their mid seventies and older. There are still people out there using MS's jargon-free Comic Chat client.

  • Ring Ring (Score:5, Funny)

    by LiquidCoooled (634315) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:23AM (#10936893) Homepage Journal
    Beep....
    You: "Hang on, ive got another call"
    You: Click "Hello?"
    Caller: "Hello, this is the RIAA, stop singing happy birthday to your grandson on the other side of the world."
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:24AM (#10936900)
    This is a good thing.

    Let's please have legitimate uses for P2P so that the greedy fuckers at RIAA and MPAA can't run around trying to ban P2P on the basis that it only has detrimental uses.

    Imagine if cooking or hunting wasnt invented, knives would have been banned cause it would only be used for killing people.

    Think about it .. why is the bomb makin illegal?

    Ridiculous but true.
    • by DaHat (247651) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:55AM (#10937010) Homepage
      Ahh the typical stupid P2P zealot who thinks that copyright infringement, just because it hurts the MPAA and RIAA is ok.

      Yes, p2p does have legitimate purposes, unlike the VCR though, many services, including Kazaa are primarily used for copyright infringement.

      The reason they have gone after Kazaa and not say... the maker(s) of bit torrent, is that Kazaa was designed from the get go for copyright infringement. Bram Cohen didn't have downloading music and movies in mind, but legitimate content distribution, to quote from the BitTorrent website:

      You have a great product, many customers, and are delivering your product to hordes of happy customers online. Serving large files creates problems of scaling, flash crowds, and reliability. As you grow, they become more central to your business, but your bandwidth costs go up as well. It's a vicious cycle.

      There is a solution. BitTorrent is a simple software product which addresses all of these problems.


      Kazaa on the other hand, like Napster and many others were with... less legitimate purposes in mind.

      Besides... last I checked, the war the MPAA and RIAA had on P2P had nothing to do about it having no legitimate uses, but was how many users were using it.

      The moral of this story? You need to grow up and stop with your "nyeh, guns don't kill people, bullets do" style arguments and recognize both sides of this issue (one you weren't even able to identify), even if you happen to disagree with one or both sides.
      • What are you the RIAA talking points guy?

        Fuck the RIAA. The sooner they go out of business the sooner the music industry starts improving.
      • by Queer Boy (451309) <dragon.76@maCURIEc.com minus physicist> on Sunday November 28, 2004 @01:09PM (#10937838)
        So uh, what if I were using a P2P program in a country that didn't recognise copyright. Would it be OK then?

        You seem to have the attitude that just because some people believe that IP is real and there are laws, that everyone should hold that view.

        Westerners...

        • " So uh, what if I were using a P2P program in a country that didn't recognise copyright. Would it be OK then?"

          The thing is, that question can be brought up about any law. The age of sexual consent in Mexico is 12. There's no minimum drinking age in many Asian countries. There's no "separation of church and state" (as US citizens see it) in the UK, nor do their labor laws offer many of the same protections against discrimination in employment. Different areas have different laws, period. If you're

      • The reason they have gone after Kazaa and not say... the maker(s) of bit torrent, is that Kazaa was designed from the get go for copyright infringement. Bram Cohen didn't have [blah blah bittorrent something something]

        I doubt there is any one reason, and you're assuming they'll never pursue BT in the future. However, a few other reasons BT may not have been the RIAA target of choice may be:

        1) BT doesn't profit by selling ads
        2) It's more difficult to determine what's being shared (seeded) without knowi
      • "The reason they have gone after Kazaa and not say... the maker(s) of bit torrent, is that Kazaa was designed from the get go for copyright infringement."

        Ridiculous. They went after Kazaa because it was the most popular. Now they are going after 'torrent.
    • Let's please have legitimate uses for P2P so that the greedy fuckers at RIAA and MPAA can't run around trying to ban P2P on the basis that it only has detrimental uses.

      It use is only detrimental because they refuse to adapt. P2P can be a transformational technology. Part of the ever increasing problem with the larger and larger movie studios is their reliance on blockbuster movie production. By adopting a P2P architecture they could lessen the revenue needed to break even. Many more movies would be availa
  • by muditgarg (829569) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:27AM (#10936908)
    This looks like a win-win for both. Kazaa get the respectability it seeks and Skype get the huge customer base of Kazaa.
    Especially as recently Dutch Supreme Court ruled Kazaa legal [pcworld.com]
    • by Anonymous Coward
      I, for one, despise bundled software, personally i think they should draw the line at heavily endorsing eachother and linking some features. Getting more than you bargain for isn't always a good deal, in fact it can be downright annoying! what if i JUST want to download some files?
    • by arivanov (12034) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @10:02AM (#10937037) Homepage
      No. It is a lose-lose.

      1. Kazaa does not become any more legitimate because Skype is not using anything in it. It is just a bundle. I suspect that it is not even using Kazaa information for supernode and relay selection which it definitely could have done. And as many other people have pointed out putting vitamins in a cigarette pack does not make the cigarettes eligible for the taxation levied on health product. It is still taxed as cigarettes.

      2. This will give a number of legitimate reasons for a list of usual suspects to go after skype. They are only waiting for an opportunity to open a broadside at it and they will grab the chance and run. I seriously doubt that Verizon would have taken such a tough "fight all subpoenas" stance if these subpoenas would have also cleaned competitors for its VOIP service.

      3. As a network admin I wipe both programs anywhere I see them for liability reasons, but many people have allowed Skype, but disallowed Kazaa. I suspect that they are going to disallow both now. This will take out people who are most likely to become paying skypeOut or In customers. At the same time a bunch of freeloaders will come along who are least likely to pay anything as long as they can. So this move will also hit Skype financially in the long run.

      4. The only reason I see for this move is a possible Skype IPO or digging for a new funding round. They are looking at a possibility to wave numbers at people with wallets and make a run once it becomes clear that the numbers are not related to anything substantial as far as finances go.
      • "No. It is a lose-lose."

        I"ll another "Lose" to that for an even 3 (Chill -- that's a /. MATH JOKE)

        "Kazaa does not become any more legitimate because Skype is not using anything in it."

        In fact, as implied in the parent, many companies and technologists already regard Kazaa as anathema (or worse), this will now put Skype on that same list, with many of these decision makers/deployers.

        Companies that are open to VOIP will now take another look before they deploy a Skype solution, just because of the stin
    • by Trailwalker (648636) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @10:02AM (#10937039)
      And the happy couble will be called Skuzza
    • Kazaa get the respectability it seeks

      I'm afraid it'll go the other way; the illegal piracy associated with Kazaa will taint the name of Skype, and the latter using a peer-to-peer network setup can only worsen its image (consider the claim "see, all P2P is the same and illegal...even this phone software is included with music-swapping software").
    • Especially as recently Dutch Supreme Court ruled Kazaa legal

      Let's see what happens in this Sydney court case [abc.net.au].
      "Unlike pending copyright-infringement cases brought against Sharman in the United States, the suit asserts additional claims for misrepresentation to the public, unconscionable conduct and civil conspiracy to inflict harm".

      Don't know how this will affet Kazaa, but it could hurt Sharman...
  • Spyware heaven (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:30AM (#10936921)

    so skype are now bundling their product with a spyware brimming p2p application that costs more in technical support to remove it and the damage it does than the PC is worth ? /me adds skype to DNS 127.0.0.1

    • Re:Spyware heaven (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Just went to visit the Kazaa site out of curiosity, to see what their hype looks like now, and strangely enough they're claiming NO SPYWARE on the front page. Their definitions of what spyware is seem to hinge on the words "personally identifiable data", hence any adware that does not return a UID does not qualify as spyware in their opinion.

      Can anyone confirm that they still include loads of anonymous adware in this new version 3? Or are they trying to ... gasp... go the clean route?
    • According to someone on http://www.tweakers.net, you can verify with filemon from http://www.sysinternals.com that skype is accessing files related to IE history. Seems rather scary, isnt't it? Could someone confirm this?
  • by Gopal.V (532678) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:30AM (#10936923) Homepage Journal
    Or is it possible to "virtually" listen to your PC/house exploiting this ?.

    Btw, I like Skype ... and I don't use Kazaa (firewalls) , what's the point really ?...

    Mmm.. better get a tinfoil hat :)
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Any machine with a connected microphone/camera can be turned into a spying device; just make sure the user executes some malign code that records data, compresses it into mpeg4 or the like, then sends it to some other host on the Net. I'm not aware of known worms that actually perform similar actions, but they're certainly out there, and/or easy to write and propagate. Another good reason not to use insecure operating systems such as any Windows incarnation.
      Also, don't forget to disconnect unused cameras an
  • Smart move of Skype? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by d95adam (621910) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:35AM (#10936936) Homepage
    Skype have been working quite hard to distance themselves from their Kazaa roots. Even if the their product has been great, many people have been wondering if they inluded spyware into the Skype installation, just like Kazaa. And now this!

    Note: I'm a happy Skype user myself, but I can see that this might lead to their reputation taking a plunge.
    • I have to agree here. The reason for them to do this seems to be their hunger for new users.

      My feeling is that their business plan was:

      1. Release a great product: IM and VoIP in a cute small package that just works eveywhere (Windows, Macs, Linux). PC to PC calls are free, PC to Phone calls is their revenue (they charge for them)
      2. Make the product massively popular
      3. Get a steady revenue from a small percentage of the huge user base, making PC to Phone calls

      Problem is, step 2 didn't go very well. They

  • by t_allardyce (48447) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:36AM (#10936940) Journal
    I guess it makes it into more of a friends network. In the end the RIAA is going to have to sue real friends who swap CDs, send music over their IM file-transfer and listen to eachothers streams. Hows it going to look the next time they sue someone who's been sharing songs with his sister on Kazaa?
  • by Nine Tenths of The W (829559) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:41AM (#10936956)
    I thought everyone had switched by now.
    • You're vastly overestimating the average user's ability to comprehend the notion of spyware. Kazaa gives them songs for free. How could anything possibly be wrong with the program?
    • by Espectr0 (577637) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @01:17PM (#10937878) Journal
      To what? The fasttrack protocol is still the best and most populated one to get files. Edonkey just sucks, requiring you to hunt servers, and have share ratios. Gnutella just doesn't cut it either.

      I use poisoned on macosx, which is a pretty UI on top of gift.
      • I guess you haven't used eMule.. it uses the ED2K network and its own decentralized Kad network. No share ratios, no server hunting - the ED2K server list comes preloaded, and it discovers new servers and switches between them automatically. You can even search all servers with a single query.

        The only problem with eMule is that you spend most of your time waiting in queue, especially if you don't have any parts of the file to share. A movie can take a few days to download. It works slowly, but surely.
      • To LimeWire [limewire.com], duh...
      • Soulseek, except the user interface has the potential to become 'broken'. It's not idiot proof.
      • http://www.acquisitionx.com/ - acquistion, the best p2p client I have seen to date. It runs on top of (i believe) the limewire core, apparently, but speed is top notch. it is a native mac gui, acts very native, not some ported software, and has very good speeds. I have had some files that were bogus, less than probably .5% quite honestly. Good software, very nice feel and reliability.

        absolutely NO pop-ups, ads or wonky behavior. Plus, since it is mac only, you can pretty much download whatever results pop
    • Yes, and they're not called people.
  • And what about... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tuxedo Jack (648130) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @09:44AM (#10936968) Homepage
    How about the fact that Kazaa includes spyware like mad? How much you want to bet that there'll be speech-recognition software (a la that in OS 9) that picks up on keywords in calls and uses Kazaa's adware to create popups based on it?
  • One really pissed off telecom industry. Oops.
  • Hmm... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Mathiasdm (803983) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @10:00AM (#10937034) Homepage
    Wait a minute... You mean I can actually combine spyware, viruses AND receiving phone calls from total strangers? Wow!
    • Yes! and thats not all! For only $29.95 I will tell you the secrets of getting SOFTWARE on the INTERNETS for FREE!
  • by blackhedd (412389) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @10:45AM (#10937210)
    Until they stop dissing SIP and play nice in the sandbox with the rest of the world, kids are all they'll get.
    • by Nurgled (63197) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @12:44PM (#10937737)

      The proprietary technology always (since the Internet has become popular with non-geeks) wins. See Jabber vs. AIM/MSN Messenger.

      Branding and prettiness always wins over technical superiority, especially in a world where most people are stuck behind awkward NAT gateways that they don't really understand. SIP might be open and friendly, but it's a royal pain in the ass to deploy for most home users, especially if you get two people behind the same NAT gateway wanting to use it.

      • I tried to use Skype once, to call a friend from university. In the same city (Wellington, New Zealand). We were 5 hops, thirty milliseconds apart. Skype routed the call first through Korea, and the second time through Canada. Two hundred milliseconds away. Needless to say, it sounded awful.

        Skype also has one major disadvantage: there's no way to plug a real physical telephone into it. And some people quite like their analogue handsets, especially when the alternative is a flimsy headset tethered to
  • by binaryspiral (784263) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @11:08AM (#10937304)
    So I get a P2P client with more spyware than a warez site, and now they shove a voip client in it - will they also generate audio ads?

    I don't understand why Kazaa is still being used when there are so many other viable P2P clients out there that won't harm your PC.

  • I was just out at Skype's website (no, I didn't DL their software). They talk a lot about being able to make phone calls but there isn't hardly any mention about being able to get phone calls from a POTS style phone. Is it possible?

    When you subscribe to Skype do you get a telephone number?

    Can you call Skype from a POTS connected phone and make a call?

    Does Skype have a call forwarding service?

    Does anybody know of a IP service that allows all of these services?
  • So the owners of Skype look for a gigantic pre-existing user base, and they turn to Kazaa. This is almost perfect proof that stability, virus, and spyware programs have very little to do with Windows itself.

    Kazaa is the worst possible program to run on a PC. First, the program itself is unstable. Secondly, the program includes spyware. And finally (though there probably exist a few more problems), downloading files from unknown sources is a perfect way to get infected by a virus, trojan horse, etc...

    N
  • ...still use Kazaa. Especially less technically experienced ones because they find the other programs too complicated (and in most cases don't even know what this "spyware" is that they're all talking about)
  • ...it decides to bin its proprietary protocol and adopt SIP.
  • Bandwidth? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Kerhop (652872) on Sunday November 28, 2004 @12:58PM (#10937786)
    Will VOIP have any bandwidth left to use when there's also Kazaa and spyware traffic on the line?
    • Re:Bandwidth? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by rsgill (632694)
      I think the main idea behind this is to defelct lawsuits.

      By having Skype embedded with Kazaa, they have a very strong case for proving non copyright infringing use of their product.

      Whether or not there is any bandwidth left to make this merging of Skype and Kazaa work on the other hand is still in question.

  • Skype + Kazaa = profit!!!
  • Then who cares. Their adding a lot of users to their userbase who were alreading using Kazaa and if the rest of you are interested in using it you can get the (adware-free) stand alone version.
  • One major grief I had with Linux was I could not use Kazaa's p2p network. -that is until I discovered GiFT, and its front-end Apollon. Now I can simultaneously download from Gnutella, OpenFT, and Fastrack (the Kazaa network). Better than Spyware-infested Kazaa if you ask me...
  • ...or rather it's premium service SkypeOut (used to call landline numbers) is that they are having serious problems handling credit card transactions for a lot of users. People are entering credit card info in the same way they do elsewhere on the net (where they have no problems), but Skype refuses transactions based on the same user credentials.

    Skype is a great concept and SkypeOut would be too, if they could just fix these problems. As it stands, they're losing customers who want to pay, simply becaus
  • The way Skype deals with users who are both behind NAT is to find a third party who is running Skype without NAT and route the encrypted call through that users machine.

    Now when you think about the type of people who use Skype, I would imagine that there are a lot of them who are behind NAT, as I have not seen too many non technical types who even know what Skype is. I could be wrong about this buth hear me out.

    When you start thinking about the people who use Kaaza (everyone) I would imagine that a highe
  • People, please stop saying that "this is a win for Skype since it will get exposure to Kazaa's huge audience". If anything, this would be a move to try to attract the Skype audience back to Kazaa.

    Kazaa is on the way down and had only 2.48 million users last month (http://www.zeropaid.com/bbs/archive/index.php/t- 2 3858), and is falling fast compared to other P2P networks like Bittorrent and eDonkey. Meanwhile, Skype is over the 20 million download mark and is currently serving over 1 million simultaneous u

  • Alone, Skype needs Win 2000 or XP.

    Kazaa 3.0's site says it works with Win 98 & Me.

    Does this means Skype runs (as p/o Kazaa)
    under Win 98 or Me...?

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