Kim Peek, aka Rain Man Focus of NASA Study 366
Bob Vila's Hammer writes "Kim Peek - an autistic man who has been deemed a "mega-savant" for his astonishing knowledge of 15 grand subjects ranging from history and literature, geography and numbers, to sports, music and dates - is a part of a new NASA study to explore the changes in his brain since MRI images were originally taken in 1988. Not only was he the basis of the main character in the movie Rain Man, but he apparently is getting smarter in his specialty areas as he gets older. The study has scientists hoping that technology used to study the effects of space travel on the brain will help explain his mental capabilities."
The article missed something. (Score:5, Funny)
But he also is severely limited in other ways, like not being able to find the silverware drawer at home or dressing himself.
What's his
Re:The article missed something. (Score:5, Funny)
11606, why? (You knew that was coming as soon as you posted, right ;)
Re:The article missed something. (Score:2)
Re:The article missed something. (Score:2)
Re:The article missed something. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The article missed something. (Score:2)
Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:5, Informative)
The above article [wisconsinm...ociety.org] and the brief wikipedia story [wikipedia.org] are very interesting reads. For example, did you know that Kim was born with "an enlarged head and missing corpus callosum, the connecting tissue between the brain hemispheres, damage to the cerebellum and no anterior commissure"?
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:5, Informative)
According to this artice [msn.com], "tests showed his brain hemispheres are not separated, forming a single, large 'data storage' area" (emphasis added).
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:5, Interesting)
It may be valuable, though, to have a better understanding of how the brain processes such specialized information, especially for those who are autistic. Treatments (where they exist) tend to be haphazard experiments on the patient, with very little information on why some treatments work in some cases, others work in others, and no treatments work at all in yet others.
Nor is it clear that everything in the "autistic spectrum" is biologically (rather than symptomatically) related. If they are unrelated, it would go a long way to explaining why the effects of medication are so unpredictable.
As far as I can tell, very little of the mechanics of autism has been researched. The cause is uncertain, though likely to have a genetic component. What that component is, and how significant it is, seems to be completely unknown. There may be environmental factors (MMR vaccines have been looked at with suspicion, for example), but that too is so uncertain as to be mere whistling in the dark.
The NASA research is unlikely to answer any of these questions, but may provide some clues as to how to get answers in future, and hopefully will inspire researchers to actually do the basic research needed.
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:4, Interesting)
That is often said, but it just isn't true anymore. The massively deficient and elevated levels of metals in the bodies of autistics is well documented. An autistic has an array of known biochemistry and physiological symptoms. About 99% of cases of autism appear to be caused by heavy metal poisoning insulting the development or function of the brain (there is a perfect overlap between the symptoms of heavy metal poisoning and autism -- because they are the same thing). Some parents are now managing to fully de-autistify their children by chelating mercury and lead. There can be other causes, but they're rare.
Oh, the MMR vaccine does not cause autism. It might've had a minor negative effect in some individuals that were already going to become autistic though. Apart from some very rare reactions, it seems very doubtful that vaccines cause autism. Although it does seem to me that the heavy metal and other chemical preservatives used in many vaccines may have encouraged the development of autism in vulnerable individuals.
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:5, Informative)
For starters, metal poisoning does NOT always imply lack of metallothionein or autistic behavior, and only mercury poisoning would somewhat approach autism symptoms... superficially!
Also autism does not always mean metal poisoning. Some autistics have simply not been exposed to enough metals to be poisonned and they're quite autistic - the poison dart frog active substance in their blood and all that without metal poisoning. Autistics with the least metal poisoning have a tendency NOT to be deficient in sulfur like 75% of autistics (in a study by Dr. Waring). Sulfur deficiency is a marker of mercury poisoning, as mercury has affinity for most sulfur groups in the body and therefore damages sulfur metabolism.
The MMR vaccine is the only vaccine to have a serious connection to autism, but it's like 0.04% of cases and not 99% as Wakefield believed at some point... and it's a delayed effect. Other vaccines don't CAUSE autism, but could certainly account for chance of early diagnosis because of plainly obvious mercury damage and ADD/dyslexia type problems.
Difference between autistic children of today with the next generation of children that are now on non-mercury (but aluminium preservative) vaccines is gonna be quite instructive, look for it when it shows up...
The mercury poisoning (quite a common disease among autistics with mercury fillings) is but one of the issues (lead and arsenic kills people too, you know). You CAN'T de-autistify someone with chelation, but curing metal poisoning can raise their IQ just like in non-autistic who are lead poisonned. Then they don't SEEM autistic as much, but still function extremely differently from other people when you look at the details.
In short, high IQ allows autistics to "pretent to be normal" by learning normal behavior and acting it with good actor skills. You can find all about it in a book called "pretending to be normal".
By the way, here is another savant (with autistic traits, but possibly not completely autistic). This one is a top 10 mathematician in history according to many.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdos
Some autistic links: neurodiversity.com
I recommend the neurodiversity.com section called "murder of autistics" for a good, true, opinion-diverse, very disturbing read.
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:3, Informative)
Appear to whom? This has not been born out by studies. Currently the only evidence in support of the metal poisoning theory I've seen are from people selling chelation therapy. If you know of any scientific studies to support this I'd love to see them.
Re:MOD PARENT UP!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Failing that, check autism.about.com [about.com] for links to sites detailing therapies involving heavy metal detox. Autism Today [autismtoday.com] also has some stuff on the subject.
I see nothing from the "major" medical and psychiatric sites, though. Most of the stuff seems to be from "alternative" medical sites. Now, that doesn't make it incorrect - medical sites are notoriously slow at picking up new ideas. (The recommended practices for preventing the spread of SARS were largely the recommended practices from Florence Nightingale's medical text!)
On the flip-side, it does mean that it's not necessarily clinically proven. For example, Oregon has some severely contaminated rivers, especially mercury contamination, but it's not known as a hot-spot for autism the way California is.
I'd like to see some peer-reviewed research on this. (Particularly if there's anything that could mean I can quit the damn meds for Aspergers. That stuff's not cheap!) But I'm not risking what's left of my brain on unproven guesswork.
Re:MOD PARENT UP!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
There are no studies showing this to be the case. All evidence about the effectiveness of gfcf diet are entirely anectodal. I'm sceptical because food alergies are often blamed for unexplained medical conditions. I think people like to attribute things to diet because its something they have some control over.
Re:GF / CF diet (Score:3, Interesting)
I guess the bottom line is that scientists are only now getting round to doing an fMRI (the continuous form of an MRI) on someone who is somewhere in the autistic spectrum, for the p
Well no wonder then (Score:3, Insightful)
.
Kim was born with "an enlarged head and missing corpus callosum, the connecting tissue between the brain hemispheres, damage to the cerebellum and no anterior commissure"?
No wonder he can't find the silverware drawer at home. That requires coordination of the parietal lobe via the corpus callosum.
No wonder he can't dress himself, that requires a cerebellum for detailed motor movements.
Now what can he do, this modern day human with a massive conjoined cortical apparatus?
Re:Well no wonder then (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:2)
My mother always said I had an enlarged head...
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:2)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:2)
Re:Kim Peek not "autistic" (Score:5, Informative)
This is true, but it's worth noting that the movie was based around Kim Peek. I've actually met Kim Peek (and his father, Kim didn't live by himself at the time), he's quite a fellow. Apparently Kim was having trouble getting medical care due to both insurance indifference and government beaurocracy, and Dustin Hoffman (who played the savant in the movie) moved mountains to help out Kim. I've also met people with classic autism -- while a psycologist may differ on the strictness of the definition, to the layman it's the same thing. Still, the opprotunity for education is appreciated.
It's still neat to ask Kim about a little blink-by-town in the middle of nowhere, and he's able to tell you about the area with enough detail that it seems as if he's been there before. (He liked to study maps at one point in time, and no matter how long ago it was, he still remembers perfectly). As long as we stayed in the guidelines set by his father (mainly talking about Kim's areas of interest -- and hence knowledge), he played a perfect game of 'stump the dummy.' (The term originates from one of my engineering professors, referring to Q&A sessions where students ask him questions about their homework, and has nothing to do with Kim Peek. Half the fun of the game was getting the professor to say "I don't know". When talking to Kim Peeks, this never happened.)
It'll be interesting ot see what the study finds.
Mr. President, we must not allow a savant gap! (Score:2, Funny)
Mr. President, we must not allow... a mega-savant gap!"
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Re:NASA should keep the study "top secret". (Score:4, Insightful)
Upon questioning them about Tibet, it is obviously apparant that their government has severily altered the truth. Basically the offical line is that the Tibetians (spelling?) are poor and need Chinas help. Tibet is basically viewed as a welfare state by the rest of China. Many Chinese only want Tibet to be part of their country because they feel compasion and want to help them.
Sadly I could not convense the chinese I talked to that Tibet was anything different, as they assumed that different views were lies by the Western Media. Oh well. Now the Chinese Government being morally corrupt, I could definatly agree. But, I would not be so quick to assume that the civilians are such.
Re:Moral point of view (Score:3, Informative)
Or corrupt prophets trying to put words in the mouth of God, or Lot's daughters getting him stone drunk and sleeping with him, or Moses murdering the Egyptian man, or David abusing his position as King to get a woman to sleep with him when her husban
Re:NASA should keep the study "top secret". (Score:2, Interesting)
I realize that not everyone has the capacity for expressing their xenophobic tendencies in hopes to confront and thereby conquering them. But there are some who feel this is funny/mind-fsck'n, and is 'ok' for them.
Re:NASA should keep the study "top secret". (Score:2)
Maybe the new metric should be this. If your government will not let you read Slashdot it is moral bankru
Cliche (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Cliche (Score:2)
You need to read A Signal Shattered by Eric S. Nylund. I don't want to reveal too much, but a major plotline involves making a beowulf cluster of human minds. Very well written too.
He also wrote the first and third of the Halo book series. They are the only ones worth reading imo, because the second book (by William Dietz) is basically a play-by-play of the game. Incredibly boring and repetitive (Master chief fires his gun at the enemy, then fires at another,
conspiracy theory 26 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:conspiracy theory 26 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:conspiracy theory 26 (Score:4, Funny)
Re:conspiracy theory 26 (Score:2)
Actually I think that they are too lazy to count Columbia pieces and hope he can do it in one shot.
Put this dude on Jeopardy!!! (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe he could give Ken a run for his money. Also, I'd love to see some "rain man" style banter with Alex as an alternative to the usual tepid small talk.
They're both Mormon (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:They're both Mormon (Score:5, Funny)
Re:They're both Mormon (Score:2)
That's a scary thought in and of itself- but it only requires three books out of the 8000 he has read...I wonder if he'd turn Catholic after being let loose in the Vatican Library and consuming another 15,000 volumes of information on natural law, philosophy, and general theology?
I welcome (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I welcome (Score:2, Funny)
Can someone with autism truly manage to be an overlord? So, wouldn't it be more like the following?
Goal (Score:5, Interesting)
Personally I'd be curious to look at the difference in his brain activity when he is dealing with one of his specialities as opposed to when he is trying to find a spoon.
Re:Goal (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Goal (Score:2)
Re:Goal (Score:2)
"I'll take Famous Titties for 100"
"That's, Famous Titles."
Re:Goal (Score:2)
Peek Performance (Score:2)
Well, the CNN article is characteristically light on details, but it says the tests will include MRI and "computerized tomography" (i.e., a PET scan). The PET scan can be used for examining things like flow of blood and oxygen, as well as which parts of the brain are utilized for a given task. Unfortunately, even though PET research can f
Smarter or more knowlegeable? (Score:5, Insightful)
Smarter or more knowlegeable? If he maintains his fascination in those areas, why would we imagine that he wouldn't gain knowlege?
Smarter would mean something like ``better able to reason with a given set of information.''
Since the article is on CNN, I suppose that we shouldn't expect any sort of detail or sense, and not much fact, either.
Re:Smarter or more knowlegeable? (Score:5, Interesting)
Man, I had a hard time typing like that, I detest discussing someone as if they were a machine, but I could think of no better way to make my point.
Re:Smarter or more knowlegeable? (Score:3, Interesting)
Hmm, now that I think about that, perhaps this man's brain holds the key to the NP-complete question.
Re:Smarter or more knowlegeable? (Score:4, Informative)
Your argument is not correct.
The paradox of the expert is this: How can experts have both (1) more knowledge of a domain and (2) faster access to each element of that knowledge?
Cognitive psychologists began answering this question forty years ago, with De Groot's work in the 1960s and Chase and Simon's work in the early 1970s on chess experts. The answer is to notice that the acquisition of knowledge is typically accompanied by the acquisition of better indices on that knowledge. Or, said another way, you get credit for knowing something when (1) you have stored it somewhere in your long-term memory and (2) you can recall it when it is appropriate. Research since the 1970s has applied these early insights to many other domains besides chess, such as reading X-rays.
Another way to think of this is that memories are more akin to hashtables than trees or lists. With the right hash function (i.e., indexing scheme), any single item can be retrieved in constant time. [Think also of radix sort versus comparison-based sorting algorithms.]
Re:Smarter or more knowlegeable? (Score:5, Interesting)
Depends how you define "smart". If you equate it with "intelligence" as studied by psychometricians, then it is common to distinguish two forms.
If he maintains his fascination in those areas, why would we imagine that he wouldn't gain knowlege?
"Crystallized" intelligence is roughly speaking the amount of knowledge you have. You're right, this should increase with age, or more generally with experience.
Smarter would mean something like ``better able to reason with a given set of information.''
"Fluid" intelligence is roughly speaking the flexibility of thinking, and is measured by having people solve novel problems that don't depend (much) on prior knowledge, culture background, etc. The canonical example is Ravens Progressive Matrices test.
It's fluid intelligence that you're thinking of, and that I think of too, when the word "intelligence" or "smarts" is used. Fluid intelligence is correlated with things like working memory capacity: how much information you can store and process at the same time -- roughly your "cognitive throughput".
In general, crystallized intelligence increases (or can increase) with age/experience. However, fluid intelligence (and related constructs such as working memory capacity) actually declines in the elderly.
The two forms of intelligence are likely subserved by different cortical networks in the brain -- and this is probably relevant given that the article mentions the use of MRI -- but this is the subject of another post!
Re:Intellignece (Reasoning vs. Knowledge) (Score:3, Informative)
I know more about intelligence and working memory than autism in general and autistic savants in particular.
However, there is one absolutely fascinating case -- Temple Grandin. She is autistic, but incredibly high functioning. She has a Ph.D and is a leader in animal ethonology. This sounds like a bullshit field, but here's the payoff: she's the world's leading designer of livestock handling equipment.
Do it yourself (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, come on, NASA (Score:2)
There, I've run rings round you logically.
Oh... (Score:2)
There, I've run rings round you logically.
"Oh, intercourse the penguin!"
Ya know, that came from a Monty Python sketch but it takes on a slightly different meaning here. Eeww.
Re:Oh... (Score:2)
>Ya know, that came from a Monty Python sketch
It probably came from the zoo.
Accelerated learning techniques (Score:2)
I have a eigenpoll [all-technology.com] for books on accelerated learning techniques,
in case there is anybody else which likes to get smarter as they get older
Pork (Score:2, Interesting)
I can't see how this has any practical relevance to the space program from the viewpoint of manned space (we have more than enough data on that front) or unmanned where this is completely unrelated.
What ever happened to NASA being the Aeronautics and Space administration. Wasn't the VSE [nasa.gov] s
Re:Pork (Score:2)
NASA is a civilian department. I think you need to adjust your tin-foil hat.
Re:Pork (Score:2)
Hmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hmmm (Score:2)
Yeah, (Score:4, Funny)
Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant/k
Along the way to its completion, the original script for the movie Rain Man underwent a number of modifications. While Kim Peek served as the initial inspiration for the story, Raymond Babbitt, as portrayed so admirably by Dustin Hoffman, is a composite savant with abilities drawn from a number of different real life individuals. The main character in that movie, Raymond Babbitt, was modified to be an autistic savant. The story thus is that of a person who is autistic but also has savant skills grafted on to that basic autistic disorder. It is important to remember, therefore, that not all autistic persons are savants, and not all savants are autistic. In preparation for his role, Dustin Hoffman spent time with several other autistic savants and their families, as well as with Kim.
Fran Peek describes his son this way: "Kim is not behaviorally autistic. He has a warm, loving personality. He truly cares for people and enjoys sharing his unique skills and knowledge capacity.
It is important to distringuish that Kim Peek does not demonstrate the disassociation portrayed in the Rain Man movie.
In fact, Kim Peek (along with his dad, Fran) spends a lot of time doing "charity work" with elderly people.
Supposedly, he's quite a nice guy to talk to, if a bit mentally retarded (or whatever the proper term is these days).
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2, Redundant)
Mentally retarded is still the term. It's a clinical term, just like emphysema or congestive heart failure. The attempts to attach a negative connotation have only worked with non-professionals, and are really pointless anyway.
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2, Insightful)
It's even used for degenerative diseases where they know the condition will only worsen.
PC language is all about making the speaker feel better about themselves, it has nothing to do with the audience. Like my "african american" sample.
You could have the midnset of the grand wizard of the KKK but so long as you use terms like "african
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
I like to tell people that Charlize Theron is the most attractive African-American I have ever seen (I know she's from South Africa but I have no idea if she has ever become an American citizen). That's almost as funny as this story. [cnn.com]
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
Of course, I'm pagan instead of christian, believe in a womans right to choose, etc. but I'm adamantly pro-gun so my liberal friends know what my TRUE nature is.
And no, I didn't vote for bush. I wrote in Ron Paul.
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
I know several autistic children, and they all have warm, loving personalities, once you get to know them. By all, I mean the ones I know - I will not argue that there may be autistic children/adults who do not have warm, loving personalities, but I'd be hard-pressed to believe they represent any majority. Thes
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
Actually, I read that as he has a warm, loving personality - as compared to the entire human race.
It's my firm belief that someone who hasn't been stepped on repeatedly by other people (or has perceived themselves stepped all over) is typically has a warm and loving personality.
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
Perhaps you are correct in your interpretation of what he (Fran) was saying. I think you're spot on with respect to your belief about people who either aren't stepped on or, as is much more likely to be the case, aren't aware they're being stepped on typically having a warm and loving personality.
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:2)
And just like me, Ashlie (my first name). I should know better than to assume the sex of someone by their name, especially when it was clear from context that Fran is male. Thanks for the correction.
Re:Kim Peek not autistic, just a savant (Score:3, Informative)
so, where's the beef (Score:2, Insightful)
even better (Score:2)
Cause I might be willing to take a pill that makes me twice as smart. Think of what I could do with a 360 IQ!
heh
I'd rather take a pill that made me rich.
Geography vs. Spoon location (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Geography vs. Spoon location (Score:4, Insightful)
Clarification (Score:5, Funny)
That's dates as in "When was Christopher Columbus born" not "Take me in your strong arms and make passionate love to me"?
Put him at the helm of the next shutlle launch (Score:2, Funny)
Put him on Jeopardy! (Score:2)
That's a lot of subjects (Score:2)
Peek on tour (Score:5, Interesting)
The most interesting part of the session was the question and answer portion at the end. For about 30 - 45 minutes Kim fielded various "trivia" questions from the audience. They ranged from obscure baseball facts from 50 years ago, to a student standing up, stating his name and hometown and asking for his address and phone number. No-one succeeded in stumping Peek.
Peek's visit was certainly one of two most interesting speakers to visit my college while I was there. (the other would be Desmond Tutu)
Re:Peek on tour (Score:3, Interesting)
If I recall, one of Peek's, er, "hobbies" is reading the White Pages and memorizing names and their associated addresses/phone numbers. I believe they touched upon this in "Rain Man" while in the hotel.
So, my guess is that Peek probably reads the White Pages whenever he visits someplace. Not quite mind reading, but still amazing nonetheless.
Why don't they... (Score:4, Interesting)
Jeapordy grudge match... (Score:4, Funny)
His IQ hasn't decreaced because... (Score:2)
Why it's important if he's smarter with age (Score:3, Informative)
Now that's a genius (Score:3, Funny)
Wow! Slashdotters, this guy could probably help us out with the girls!
The Solution to the Voting Machine Problem!! (Score:4, Funny)
-chris
Rain-Man's little secret (Score:3, Funny)
So, apparently he has exceptional abilities ONLY in things which are interesting.
And everything else, someone else has to do it for him.
How conveeeeeeeenient...
Slickest scam I've ever seen.
Re:NASA? strange brain things? (Score:3, Funny)
Dump chimp?
You fail English? That's unpossible!
Re:But can he beat Ken Jennings (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:But can he beat Ken Jennings (Score:2)
Ken does have a vast knowledge and in many cases is able to a
Re:But can he beat Ken Jennings (Score:2)
Re:But can he beat Ken Jennings (Score:2)
But separate out the fiction from the nonfiction and I'm sure you'd limit the number of volumes needed greatly.
Re:NEWS FLASH: Man gets smarter as he gets older (Score:2)
I probably couldn't 10 years ago. Now, I'm not so sure.
Re:For military purposes, no doubt (Score:2)
NASA creates information for the public domain. (From the FAQ):