Kazaa Loses P2P Crown To Edonkey 483
I(rispee_I(reme writes "According to the network population stats at slyck, FastTrack (home of Kazaa) is no longer the most populous filesharing network. Top honors now belong to edonkey, a network of German origins. (Most edonkey users connect with emule, a gpl client for Windows)."
Open source rules again (Score:3, Interesting)
see what happens when you let anyone grab the code
you get a true distributed P2P system that is free and highly expandable
grab the source [sf.net] and make a great app even better and more secure
More Soulseek (Score:5, Interesting)
eDonkey has its place. I use it to download MST3K episodes from www.dapcentral.org. It's slow, but I've never had a single corrupt download. When you're talking 4.7 GB (in some cases) it's pretty damn good.
Maths? (Score:2, Interesting)
Current stats from the slyck page:
FastTrack 2,493,637 eDonkey2K 2,402,593
Eh?If you actually visited the page... (Score:1, Interesting)
Furthermore, if you bothered to read the article they posted [slyck.com] about FastTrack closing in on eDonkey2K, you would have also noticed the following:
Although the statistics show the eDonkey2000 network slightly ahead of FastTrack at the time of this writing, it is much too early to declare a new P2P King. Too many variables currently exist in the way that a client collect their population numbers to difinatively stay that one network is ahead of another. However, what is certain is that the eDonkey2000 network is closing in on FastTrack, and if Sharman does not fall back on their "invaluable experience" soon, a new P2P King will be crowned.
Re:Got plenty of time? eDonkey may rock. (Score:5, Interesting)
eD2k rewards people for uploading, but seems to reward people for sitting in queue better.
The way to effectively get files with ed2k is with a 10GB queue of content which you just forget about for a week or two. -- It's a bit of a culture change after kazaa and napster where you immediatly start downloading files.
Oh no. btw, Kad is server-less (Score:5, Interesting)
btw, i run eMule 24/7 serving freeware files. no I actually do, i don't share copyright stuff, got caught doing that already (watch out Movie fans! don't share those files for months on end). i'm always uploading freeware aswell so i know it's a popular distribution mechanism for that.
eMule (Score:2, Interesting)
Please enlighten me: Why do most users use eMule? I heard that it a) has compatibility problems on the ED2K network, and b) is based on an old version of Edonkey (v60?) and does not support Horde. Is this true? I've been staying away from it as I don't want to cause problems on the wonderful network. Plus, Overnet works great.
It sucks that Overnet/eDonkey is becoming popular. That means it will be the next to be shut down by the likes of RIAA/MPAA. :( Overnet rocks.
Not German (Score:3, Interesting)
Although Emule, which I think is now the most popular client, has German origins.
Too bad both networks are junk (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Got plenty of time? eDonkey may rock. (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't use any of the P2P filesharing apps, the combination of ftp and knowing the right people worked before, it works still, and it'll work 10 years from now after congress has laid down 90000 laws specific to "P2P networks".
Re:The reason? (Score:2, Interesting)
Please don't read this as an endorsement the RIAA. 98% of the music I download I wouldn't buy anyway. The music I WOULD buy I usually DO end up buying. Commercial software, on the other hand, is overpriced. The end of software piracy = the end of Microsoft as far as I'm concerned. In short, I buy music I like, but I think pirating (overpriced) software is okay. BONG!
Port Forwarding and Target Audience (Score:1, Interesting)
the horde is well done (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not a leaching network! (Score:5, Interesting)
The clients have been designed for fairness and _sharing_ rather than grab as much as you can and then go offline.
DC on the other hand is this mentality, you can keep your leaching corrupt network.
Re:Err LImewire? (Score:1, Interesting)
People dont use limewire as a client specifically because of a number of adware/spyware related issues.
ALthough why people dont use gnutella more I dont know.
Re:An explanation of the 2 networks history: (Score:2, Interesting)
Another factor was the Morpheus OS that used to be on fasttrack and had a lot of users as it was easier, more powerfull and no spyware.
Now, in the recent years, Fasttrack limited its network to Kazaa only, which it bundled with lots of spyware. The network got attacked by **AA drones and seeded with fake files. Emule made edonkey a lot easier to use. Edonkey programmers took note and updated their app.
So, basically, fastrack goes down in quility and edonkey goes up. The numbers are just inertia...
Edonkey was a very future looking P2P networrk at its conception. It's goal has always been to exchange BIG files (ISO sized), with hashes, verification and possibility to only dump the corrupted part. Now that those file sizes are usual, such a network gets useful...
Re:Open source rules again (Score:5, Interesting)
for linux, the mldonkey client [nongnu.org] is a pretty nice daemon. i generally use kmldonkey [kmldonkey.org] as a gui for it. kmldonkey (a nice attempt to clone emule) crashes quite often, but since it is separate from the network core daemon, nothing is affected. just launch it again, and your transfers are still going.
good stuff. super slow network, though.
Cross-Platform OSS edonkey Client (Score:4, Interesting)
As an added benefit, mldonkey supports FastTrack, Gnutella 1 and 2, DirectConnect, SoulSeek, Bittorrent, OpenNap...you get the idea. I've been using it for a couple of years, and it's replaced every P2P client for me.
Oh, edonkey is a great network to find PDFs of textbooks - a godsend for students.
Re:the horde is well done (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Open source rules again (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Got plenty of time? eDonkey may rock. (Score:2, Interesting)
This means, of course, that they get to charge much more for high uploads... They win either way. Ever notice how the DSL/Cable TOS always specify that you're not supposed to be hosting a server?
Re:the horde is well done (Score:2, Interesting)
The E2DK already gives you higher download priority from people you're uploading to, effecting "exchanging parts you both need." Look in your uploads list, and you'll often see people you're downloading from.
Re:A GREAT open source client (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:eMule (Score:2, Interesting)
True
eMule took the eDonkey idea and made a better compatible open source client.
At the time eMule was released, the ed2k-network consisted only of the (closed source) edonkey2000 clients and some mldonkeys. It could've hardly been "better compatible" at that time.
It did (and still does) have more features (better corruption-handling, later also server-independant source-exchange, credits and compression) and simply crashed less often. edonkey2000 was at around v56 at that time and soon after its releases stopped at v61 (without improving anything) because the developers focused on their new seperate network "overnet".
(The two are partially compatible, actually, as far as client-to-client communication is involved. The difference is how the clients find each other - server vs. serverless)
eMule greatly improved the usability of the ed2k-network and helped keeping it popular, so after some overnet-only releases from the edonkey2000 developers, they decided to release a "hybrid" of the two without really adding any of the features eMule introduced more than a year before (remember: corruption-handling, credits, compression).
"Horde" was introduced much later and in a network that by then mostly consisted of eMule-clients, it were effectively the edonkey-developers who broke network-compatibility by introducing it without offering any documentation.
(Horde works a bit like bittorrent in that it uses much smaller chunks and instantly rewards fast uploading)
The latest hybrid client from the edonkey2000-devs is again called edonkey, btw.
In my opinion, eMule would actually do good by adopting some of the features of Horde. But even without them, it's still eMule 10 to edonkey 1.
Re:eMule (Score:3, Interesting)
I think what the grandparent said, or wanted to say, was that eMule was a better, compatible client, ie it was compatible and better at the same time. It was not more compatible than the original client - that wouldn't make any sense, like you say.
In my opinion, eMule would actually do good by adopting some of the features of Horde.
They have. On the one hand, there's the eMule alternative of the serverless protocol. But what's more, once you have found a peer for a file using whatever protocol, the two clients engage in a source exchange, ie they tell each other about the respective list of known peers using the file. I guess this would be a swarming feature in P2P terms. Source exchange is extremely effective and has been in eMule for a long time.
What you see, and what is... (Score:3, Interesting)
The real problem with many 3rd gen P2P networks is that they do not scale. Freenet appears to work, but its hill-climbing algorithm breaks down because of the inherent inaccuracy in the routing. To a certain point, it works like a charm - the nodes form a single "hill". Past a certain point though, it just breaks down. You end up with trying to find the right sand dune in Sahara to climb. Yes, I've read the papers. No, it doesn't work in real life.
That combined with application-level tools that simply can not scale is making it impossible. Freenet message boards operate under a simple increment test "Is there a message 13?" "Yes" "Is there a message 14?" "No, then let's insert message 14" and obviously, if there was 100s or 1000s of users in a group, there'd be mass collisions.
Mostly any 3rd gen P2P network works if it is small enough. At the lowest level, a dumbfire system (all talk to all works). Somewhere past that, you have basic routing. Somewhere past that, the hill-climbing algorithm works. But for a network to scale to millions of people, I haven't seen any viable solution.
And that is just for content-routing. If you intend to make it anonymous as well, there are a host of challenges beyond not sending content directly, including but not limited to probing, posioning, traffic analysis, fake referrals and whatnot. These are all non-trivial problems, in particular since you have NO feedback as to whether your contact delivered his message intact or at all and you can not trust anything it claims came from another node (which may all be forged nodes created by your contact).
Kjella
Re:Oh no. btw, Kad is server-less (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Got plenty of time? eDonkey may rock. (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.mediachest.com
Post all your media (Books, CD's, Games, DVD's) online, and share it with your friends & neighbors, the old fashioned way. RIAA and MPAA can't touch you this way:
(Link in SIG)
Re:eMule (Score:1, Interesting)
However, let me clarify what the "Horde" system in the latest edonkey and overnet clients does: One download in one's list can be set to the "highest" priority, which causes that most of your upload will be dedicated to this file. Your client will seek to upload to only those who upload to you at the same time and will drop them if they're too slow (hence "Bittorrent-like").
This can greatly speed up a single download, so it might help getting rid of the usual "edonkey is so slow" remarks.
Also, alongside "Horde", edonkey introduced smaller chunks so that the clients can download and check the data in much smaller blocks (~540 KB if I'm not mistaken), which is - in theory - a useful change.
"Horde" is not available in eMule, though.
Re:eMule (Score:3, Interesting)
Source exchange was the first break-through in eMule. Kademile is the latest development (as of 0.43), and now I get about half my sources from Kad searches (you can see whether your sources are discovered on a server, on Kad, via source exchange or vie people connecting to you).
Sub-dividing the file beyond the 9MB chunk size is interesting (quicker chunk sharing) but probably leads to lots of chatter as you're announcing which bits you've downloaded.
However, far more annoying than large chunk sizes are clients that CUT YOU OFF with mere kilobytes left before you complete your 9MB chunk. I don't know how they know, but it's 100% consistant (I forget which client does that exactly). Ok, great, I have 9MB (minus 10k) downloaded, but can't share it with anyone, YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES!
The other annoying thing, limited strickly to the Hybrid eDonkey client, is that, oh, about 99% of the clients will only upload like 10-50k at a time, then cut you off, and back in que you go. Fuck, is that ever annoying. I haven't been able to figure out the reasoning behind that one yet.
Anyhow, enough venting, I love eMule, great client, and hope the influx of Kazaa rejects doesn't pollute it too much.