Senator Blacklisted by No-Fly List 1396
sig writes "Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA) was turned down for a flight from Washington, D. C. to Boston because his name turned up on the TSA No-Fly list. He eventually got on a flight, but was again denied on his way back to D.C. It took 3 weeks of calls to Tom Ridge and the Department of Homeland Security for the ordeal to get straightened out. But what are ordinary citizens supposed to do if the Secretary of Homeland Security won't take their calls?" There's also a New York Times story.
Not on "No-Fly" list but rather the "Screen" list (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Funny... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Wonder what happens to Michael Moore (Score:1, Informative)
Clinton is the one who succeeded in using the IRS.
T. Kennedy (Score:5, Informative)
According to the 1990 census information [census.gov], 0.067% of Americans have the surname 'Kennedy' - given a rough poulation of 300million, that makes around 200,000 American Kennedys.
Now, also from the above information, 4.25% of the male population and 3.35% of the female population have names beginning with T.
This means that just from that single name on the no-fly list, roughly 7600 Americans could be excluded from flying.
It's utter, utter madness.
Kennedy's actual record of in-flight disturbances (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Wonder what happens to Michael Moore (Score:3, Informative)
Kenneth Star spent upwards to $50 Million dollars investigating Clinton and all he could show at the end of it was that Billy lied about getting a blow job. Of course, Newt couldn't find ANYONE in congress to initiate proceedings against Billy because all Newt's people were guilty of similar offenses.
So, excuse me, but get YOUR facts straight. Billy was impeached (f*cking unbelievable) because he decided to lie about his blow job. You can be assured that if Kenny had any suspicion that Billy was guilty of a REAL crime that he would have spent another $20 Million chasing it down.
identity crisis (Score:3, Informative)
Ted's a nickname...
Washington Post states [washingtonpost.com] the actual [bad] entry in the system was "T. Kennedy" that trigger this whole event.
Scenario: When you goto the airport, they look at your drivers license and it says "Richard Bruce Cheney" (or Richard B. Cheney). I'm sure you will not be flagged against "D. Cheney" if it shows up in the database, otherwise all we need is a J. Smith to be entered in the database and viola, system overload... Anyway that's where profiling comes in to place I guess to prevent that ;)
Sounds like human error or poor judgement (or good judgement, depending on political party preference) but obviously blamed on a computer/database.
For the non-US (Score:5, Informative)
here [washingtonpost.com]
On the evening of July 19, 1969, Sen. Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts drove his Oldsmobile off a wooden bridge on Chappaquiddick Island, drowning his passenger, a young campaign worker named Mary Jo Kopechne. The senator left the scene of the accident, did not report it to the police for many hours, and according to some accounts considered concocting an alibi for himself in the interim.
At the time, Kennedy managed to escape severe legal and political consequences for his actions thanks to his family's connections (which helped to contain the inquest and grand jury) and to a nationally televised "Checkers"-like speech broadcast a week after the accident. But virtually no journalist who has closely examined the evidence fully believes Kennedy's story, and almost 30 years later, the tragedy still trails the senator, with aggressive press investigations revived in five-year anniversary intervals.
Probably more than any other single factor, Chappaquiddick - a frenzy without end - has ensured that Ted Kennedy would not follow his brother John to the White House.
NOT TURNED DOWN (Score:5, Informative)
From the article:
A Kennedy aide said the senator nearly missed a couple of flights because of the delays
This is NOT "turned down for a flight". Sheesh!
Re:Wrong again! (Score:3, Informative)
Um, being a Canadian, the only time they "check" me is on the way back into Canada. I take it you are implying the INS is wary of all people entering the US from Canada due to Canadian Customs being "lax" in checking folks out? I mean you do understand that Canadian Customs does not even talk to you when you are leaving Canada? Actually that's a good thing, had INS checked us on the way out, we may have never gotten home with that single-barrell bourbon.
Re:Wonder what happens to Michael Moore (Score:3, Informative)
But my understanding is that Clinton asked the Judge to define Sexual relations.
And the Judge said Sexual relations = intercourse.
And Clinton correctly (according to his story) stated that he did not have sexual relations with ML.
By the Judge's definition oral sex was not considered sexual relations.
Re:Our gov't at work (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Answer. (Score:3, Informative)
This is not Karma farming... I don't need it anymore, and I realize that the vast majority of summer
Re:You think it's just one guy? (Score:3, Informative)
Fuck 9/11 and fuck homeland security. If someone is determined and smart, they can blow up any goddamn thing they want, no amount of flag waving bullshit security is going to save us. Its reality and people don't want to face it. The only way we catch these people (the ones REALLY determined to hit us) is a LOT of hard work by LAW ENFORCEMENT (NOT MILITARY!) with an extra hefty scoop of LucK. Terrorism is a law enforcement issue, not an issue of war.
Re:So what will it be folks? (Score:2, Informative)
When I take my bicycle with me on the plane (in Europe), I am wearing:
- Glasses with a metal frame;
- One home key and one cycle key hidden under my clothes;
- One metal watch with a metal strap;
- Two pieces of steel sized 6x15x20 mm, one under each shoe, that fit into the pedals of my bike.
Guess what? All this does not set off the metal detection ports. In my hand luggage, there are often a number of things that must look funny on the X-ray screen: a metal cooking vessel, the pedals (full of springs and oddly-shaped pieces of steel), wires (for recharging batteries from the dynamo), lumps of cheese and chocolate (must look like lumps of semtex), a spoon, fork, and (blunt) knive that I forgot to put into the check-in luggage, and other small things that you need in outdoor life. I've never been asked to show what's inside of that bag. I'm actually considering to cut a few layers of tinfoil into the shape of a gun or knive, just to see what happens.The laser service engineer that visits our lab every now and then carries a big case with screwdrivers and other tools as well as cleaning chemicals and a gas-operated soldering iron, and he claims that he managed to carry those as hand luggage on occasions where he was in a hurry. (He is of course a very good airline customer with a pass for unlimited domestic travel).
Re:Not on "No-Fly" list but rather the "Screen" li (Score:3, Informative)
Re:So what will it be folks? (Score:2, Informative)
Amen. Also, no matter what the government mandates to try to make people feel safe, it all comes down to Mr. John Q. Agent working at the airport to actually make it work. And he often fails.
I can give several examples of (post-9/11) experiences in an airport where I used to live (Missoula, Montana). I once boarded a plane with nobody at the gate to check passes (I still have the complete, unchecked boarding pass). I've walked right into almost every "restricted" area, including the machine room in the basement, the offices behind the airline counters, and even right out the back door to where the planes are.
My only comfort was knowing the strategic choices of planes on 9/11 was related to their high fuel content and proximity to specific targets. By the time any plane from Montana gets to a terrorist target, it's time to re-fuel.
Making A Difference, Not Just Noise (Score:5, Informative)
"Ok...here's a proposal. [
I fully agree. Another critical angle is to contact your representatives [house.gov] and be heard. Your phone call is actually more powerful than your vote in many ways. Your vote gets the person into/out of office, your phone calls/email/letters gives them direct feedback on specific issues.
Followup ideas on How To Do It Better to follow shortly, but I've got to knock out a conference call first. Yeah, work. The nerve of them. ;-)
Re:This happened to my friend (Score:3, Informative)
You should check out what snopes [snopes.com] has to say about the dry run. Seriously. The air marshals were at least as concerned about the behavior of the woman who wrote that article as they were about the musicians, maybe more. If you don't want to put faith in the snopes article, read thier sources. If you don't want to put faith in their sources, I can't help you.
For people nervous about links: http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp
Article I, Section 6 of the U.S. Constitution (Score:5, Informative)
[...] They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same [...]
This clause is sometimes put forward by congressmen to try to avoid tickets, since they are "going to and returning from" their sessions. See Sen. Robert Byrd: Invoking an ancient rule to avoid a modern law [capitolhillblue.com] to find out more.
Re:Could it have been... (Score:5, Informative)
And this kind of crap is not going to be buried by the media!
Re:The slippery slope (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Answer. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:My Story (Score:1, Informative)
Re:T. Kennedy (Score:5, Informative)
> Again, what does that have to do with this story? His name doesn't start with a 'T.'
FROM THE ARTICLE:
"Sen. Edward "Ted" Kennedy said Thursday that he was stopped and questioned at airports on the East Coast five times in March because his name appeared on the government's secret "no-fly" list."...
"A senior administration official, who spoke on condition he not be identified, said Kennedy was stopped because the name "T. Kennedy" has been used as an alias by someone on the list of terrorist suspects."
> Hey moderators, how about actually reading the posts before hitting the buttons.
Hey, poster! how about actually reading the article before posting?
Re:Foreigners... (Score:1, Informative)
No, they don't
Non-citizens abroad lack any constitutional rights, even when they confront the U.S. government there. However, they continue to enjoy constitutional rights within U.S. borders, even when here illegally. This has been decided by the supreme court already. Do a google search on "Odah decision"
Re: Florida voter registration records (Score:3, Informative)
See: www.gregpalast.com [gregpalast.com]
Re:Our gov't at work (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/01/florida
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/11/State/Florida_s
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,64182,00.h
Re:Our gov't at work (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Our gov't at work (Score:3, Informative)
And just in case you don't get it: Voter registration rolls are handled by the local precinct officials.
Yes, it was the precinct officals who received the list, prepared by Database Technologies (on a $4M contract - nice money for shoddy work) of people to be excluded from the roll. What's their political inclinations got to do with this? The felon list contract was awarded by Katherine Harris, a republican. What were the county supervisors to do, throw it away? (well, one did: - Emogene Stegall).
Explain to me what the precinct officals (Democrat or not) should have done with the list given to them.
presumption before thinking (Score:5, Informative)
Constitution Article I, Section 6, Clause 1 (Score:2, Informative)
Clause 1: The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. (See Note 6) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, beprivileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
Re:Wrong again! (Score:4, Informative)
The 2nd question was because of your 'wrong' answer to the first. INS (or whatever they call themselves now) are required to ensure that you have enough funds to support your visit so that you won't resort to asking for handouts or robbery. The bizarre thing is that the law that codified this requirement was written a long time ago and the amount of cash required wasn't index linked, so it wouldn't cover a meal in a decent restaurant today. I can't remember exactly what the figure is, but it's something like $20.
When I was dating my now wife and make frequent trips into the USA without a green card, I used to keep $40 in my wallet just to avoid that hassle even though I, like you, used ATMs to support my stay.
Kennedy's IRA Connection (Score:0, Informative)
And Edward Kennedy does have terrorist connections. If memory served me right, he has used his political muscle to aid IRA terrorist leaders, getting them into the US to raise money. That probably got him (legitimately) on at least one terrorist watch list and that data was fed into the current one. So, it is phony for him to whine and claim innocence. When it comes to terrorism, he has blood on his hands.
Don't forget too that Ed Kennedy is very left and it is the left, particularly in Europe, that's providing political cover for so-called "fundamentalist" terrorists. You can read about how how Carlos the Jackal, former Marxist, has converted to Islam and how London's Sunday Telegraph is idolizing him like Marxist revolutionaries were once idolized at:
Carlos the Jackal [inklingbooks.com]
And recall that when his father, Joseph Kennedy, was UK ambassador after war broke out in Europe, he tilted his remarks so heavily in favor of Hitler that some historians call him "pro-Nazi." FDR had to do some clever manuvering to get him to leave the job quietly. Papa Joe hoped he could build on American isolationism and get himself in the White House. If he'd been successful in his schemes, Europe would still be Nazi. (There was, in fact, a rather badly done docu-drama that built on that theme.)
Then there is the Kennedy family's close friendship with Senator Joe Macarthy of the repressive Macarthy Era fame. Ed's brother Robert Kennedy served as Macarthy's legal aide and John Kennedy was the only member of the Senate not to vote to censure Macarthy for his demagogery. Ed was a bit too young to get involved in the family's efforts to suppress free speech, but his heart was no doubt with his kin. Witness all the slandering he has done over the years of rather ordinary Americans.
In short, Ed Kennedy, grossly obese and often drunk, is the last member of a rather vile political dynasty. There's probably no one more deserving of having his flights disrupted by a terrorism watch list. Edward and his kin have thrown their weight around and hurt a lot of innocent people over the years. There's no reason to feel sympathy for him now.
--Mike Perry, Inkling blog [inklingbooks.com], Seattle
Re:Our gov't at work (Score:2, Informative)
And as is plainly evident given 9-11, ID checking does absolutely NO good whatsoever. Facial recognition, on the other hand, or some other biometric way of postively identifying someone (maybe a DNA scanner in the not too distant future?) could perhaps be a vaild deterrant, but the system we have now punishes nobody but the innocent.
Re:Not on "No-Fly" list but rather the "Screen" li (Score:4, Informative)
1) Don't carry anything valuable. They'll make you dump everything on a table, which they don't watch very well. For security staff, they're pretty slack about other people's stuff.
2) Wear cheap, flat 'deck' shoes, like $12 pairs fron a cheap show chain. You may lose them at some point.
3) If you wear a belt, use a cheap flat belt. You may have it torn open at some point.
4) Wear clean underware, with no holes. You may wind up with your pants around your ankles with 20 strangers there, as you try to stand straight, with no belt, and your arms straight out from your sides. (Happened to me at San Diego, in the hole they call Gate 1.)
Expect to be laughed at by the wanker TSA employees. Do not make any remarks or show any expression in response. Remarks about a**holes results in an extra hour or two in a small room while you wait for a cavity search 'specialist'.
Re:Foreigners... (Score:3, Informative)
There are relatively few jobs other than airport security screeners that have minimal requirements, have had to hire a ton of people extremely rapidly in a short period of time, and allow hirees to pat down [nytimes.com] choice females from a line.
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Big Difference (Score:3, Informative)
These were known as "letters of marque", and although they're not considered legal under current laws of armed conflict, they were completely acceptable in those days.
Absolutely. War isn't a game, and if you let down your guard (by getting drunk on the battlefield), you have no right to ask the enemy to wait until you're better prepared.
Sean
Re:Our gov't at work (Score:2, Informative)
Your typical General Aviation airplane has perhaps a 400 pound payload with full fuel. You could deliver much more ordinance much more precisely with a minivan, at about the same speed.
Re:Big Difference (Score:3, Informative)
I heard that bin Laden is on the board of some or many defense contractors. He supposedly has NOT been removed.
That would have been MOHAMED bin Laden. He's the former head of the Bin Laden Group, an international construction conglomerate that has large corporate interests in many different industries. He is no longer on the board of any company, since he has passed away.
Mohamed was Osama's father, but there was no great love between them. Mohamed disowned his son decades ago and helped pressure the Saudi royals to yank his Saudi citizenship. The etire family has turned its back on their most famous member because he's a serious embarassment to them and very, very bad for their business. Mind you, the bin Laden family is quite rich and very happy with the status quo in Saudi Arabia. The absolute last thing Mohamed's family wants is the idiology that Osama promotes.
Re:Japanese lesson: (Score:1, Informative)
These days, we're probably verging on "henna gaijin" as the predominant US view of forigners.