It's Just the 'internet' Now? 710
This morning Wired News announced that 'web', 'net', and 'internet' will no longer be capitalized in their stories. Is this the next logical step after ditching 'e-mail' in favor of 'email' , or should the global computer network still be treated with a proper name? For more discussion, see Wikipedia, The Chicago Manual, and an article profiling Joseph Turow's de-capitalization efforts.
Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
... we should decapitalize "Google".
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Next move... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Next move... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
*gets struck by lightning*
How's that for (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Interesting)
Those that want to keep "God" in the U.S. pledge, etc., claim that "God" is a generic term for a spiritual, not religious concept; and, therefore, does not endorse any specific religion. Bill O'Reilly holds this belief, as do many conservatives.
Those that want to remove "God" from the U.S. pledge, etc., claim that "God" is the proper name for the Judeo-Christian supreme being and represents an endorsement by the U.S. government of a specific religion. Which is, of course, unconstitutional.
My suggestion to mend this dilema has always been to uncapitalize "God" thereby removing the association with the Judeo-Christian supreme being. Hell, I'd even be for making it plural... One nation, under gods, indivisible...
My unrealistic suggestion is to change "God" to "the laws of physics".
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
That's uncle bill now.
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
Wired and their "next moves" (Score:5, Funny)
Internet becomes "iNet". This is to fit with Apple's product naming scheme, which is cool, and therefore something that Wired is terribly concerned about associating itself with.
"I see" becomes "i c". Wired constantly promotes the claim that the Internet (oops, sorry -- "internet") is going to completely drive our lives and our culture, and currently most authorship is done via chat. What better way to argue their point than to let themselves be completely swayed by typos and shortcuts from chat?
Micropayments are "hip", so Wired stops selling "subscriptions" and starts selling "micropayments in twelve chunk block minimums".
"Internet time", or "beats" (a desperate attempt by Swatch, who has put every useful gadget and more onto a watch, to produce new required features to drive watch sales) will be adopted by Wired. I'm not sure that "beats" are hip or not, but they're certainly stupid and Internet culture-oriented, so Wired should love them. They can say "It took me @45 to write this article".
Wired will no longer refer to themselves as a "magazine". "Magazines" are pre-Internet culture, and "'zine" is only marginally more "hip". No, tablet computers are "hip", and so Wired will sell "paper tablets".
Speaking of "'zine", almost any word can be made more hip by chopping some prefix off and replacing the prefix with an apostrophe. We know this because a couple of sci fi authors have done this. Therefore, I won't "Download and read Wired on the Internet by 4:00 PM". Instead, I'll "'nload 'n rez wired on the internet by @3452". Where would we be without Wired for entertainment?
Re:Next move... (Score:3, Funny)
was being the operative word
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
Next, you're gonna tell us that you can verb a noun so long as it's a registered trademark.
Which would be seriously McDonald's'ed up.
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, you just verbed the noun "verb."
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, you've been thoroughly commercialized. Brand names aren't the only things capitalized in English.
We refer to it as the Internet. Corporations have intranets. The capitalization conveys meaning. Wired's usage is wrong.
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Interesting)
--
Evan
Re:Next move... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Next move... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Insightful)
If you had named your fridge "Old Whiny", your car "Betty", and your restaurant was named "The E-Coli Farm" it WOULD be correct to say:
"Old Whiny is broken and the food is bad, so let's jump in Betty and go to The E-Coli Farm." (I skipped the food because few people name individual items of food.)
That the The Internet happens to be a name in definite form does not make it any less of a name, just like The Netherlands is still the name of a country, and The Rocky Mountains is still the name of a mountain chain. (Note that "a rocky mountain" is something entirely different - just like "an internet.")
Re:Next move... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Next move... (Score:3, Informative)
You do in German :-)
Re:Next move... (Score:4, Funny)
Proper Nouns and such (was Re:Next move...) (Score:5, Insightful)
Capitalization of proper nouns exists to increase comprehension. The Internet was named that way because it was unique. There were, agreed, many inter-networks, but the Internet was the "mother of all internets" as it aimed to connect them all into one global inter-network.
Corporations have intranets, but they may also have inter-networks with various vendors and customers -- these may not always be part of the Internet. So, as long as it is possible to have an internet that is not the Internet, the proper version should be capitalized.
Wired is merely hoping to be ahead of the curve in suggesting that it won't be long before all internets are part of the Internet -- and then it won't matter if the term is capitalized at all.
Re:Proper Nouns and such (was Re:Next move...) (Score:5, Funny)
Unless you're Atlas, and are actually holding Earth between your fingers.
Um, you insensitive clod.
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Next move... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Those are i(I?)ntranets........genius.. (Score:5, Informative)
The technical term "internet" applies to a collection of "networked networks".
Genius.
Apparently you haven't made it into the real world yet. Intra means within. Inter means between. You have interstate roads (crossing boundaries) and intrastate roads (stay within the state). A corporations network that is not open to the public is an intranet. It is used only within (intra) the company.
intranet is most certainly not meaningless marketspeak.
Re:Next move... (Score:3, Insightful)
No. Plenty of brands aren't capitalized, or not on the first letter (e.g. easyJet). Some are all-caps (SPAM); in fact the USPTO only lists brands in all-caps (because capitalization doesn't matter), except for logo's submitted by the owner. If you use your brand with no leading captital letter, that's all up to you; it doesn't bestow any more "brandiness" to a word to capitalize it.
Pacific Ocean or "pacific ocean"? (Score:5, Informative)
Capitalization is determined by whether or not something is a proper noun, not by whether it is a brand name. The Internet is a proper noun, as opposed to "the internet", which would refer to, say, one's private corporate internet.
If you'd like other examples: nobody owns the "Pacific Ocean", but because there is only one "Pacific Ocean" (despite being many oceans that could be called pacific) we capitalize it. There are many moons, but only one Moon. There are many presidents, but President as a title is capitalized, because it is used as a proper noun.
The proper way to refer to Google is "Google" when using the term as a noun -- it is a proper noun that refers to a company. The *verb* "google", meaning "to search for on Google", is not capitalized.
Re:Pacific Ocean or "pacific ocean"? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Pacific Ocean or "pacific ocean"? (Score:3, Informative)
Wow (Score:3, Funny)
What about website? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What about website? (Score:5, Insightful)
im of the opinion that (Score:4, Funny)
the intarweb should still be treated with teh proper name
hey, i started this trend (Score:5, Funny)
damn shift key, i can't use the exclamation point to emphasize my rage.
Re:hey, i started this trend (Score:5, Funny)
Re:hey, i started this trend (Score:3, Funny)
not quite the same as 'television' yet (Score:5, Interesting)
Or we could just not worry about it and get to work on the more pressing problems... should Microsoft be spelled with a $?
No more /.? (Score:5, Funny)
John.
Re:No more /.? (Score:5, Funny)
John.
Well, here it is! (Score:3, Funny)
The Internet is my God. (Score:5, Insightful)
Well there was never any reason to capitalize "net" for the simple fact that it is really 'net which is a shortened version of "Internet". I consider the Internet a specific place and thus deserving of capitalization.
If It's Capitalized, It Must Be Important.
There are a lot of things that are important that aren't capitalized. Take for example "air" and "water". Most people don't capitalize either one of those. I suppose there may be some groups out there like "wateries" or "airheads" that may refute my claims but they can write their own damn non-sense. I'd prefer they save it for 4/1/2005 though.
That it transformed human communication is beyond dispute. But no more so than moveable type did in its day. Or the radio. Or television.
Small nitpick here... If you are talking about "the radio" instead of radio there is a slight difference. Radio is talking about the medium where "the radio" is talking about the big box over in the corner of the living room that talks.
I will continue to refer to it as "Internet" as it is my all knowing God. Maybe that's why Google is capitalized?
it's no problem (Score:5, Funny)
it could be worse.... (Score:4, Funny)
Wired is way behind (Score:3, Funny)
I'll just be happy if... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I'll just be happy if... (Score:5, Funny)
The reason (Score:5, Interesting)
Or perhaps Wired News simply don't know what they're talking about?
The "internet" is any set of networks connected with routers. The "Internet" is the largest such network, that uses TCP/IP.
From FOLDOC:
Internet [ic.ac.uk]
internet [ic.ac.uk]
Re:The reason (Score:3, Insightful)
A wise move with much precedent (Score:5, Funny)
'im working on something alredy, so go stuff yourself and get back to browsing the internet'
'Hey ass, next time you can't get to your stupid Sims board, check whether your network cable is even plugged in before telling everyone that "the internet is down"'
'Jeesus, Ben, stop sending me that gd Bonzai Buddy trash! I don't care if it's cute, that little bastard screwed up my internet settings! I lost a weeks worth of work!'
If my team uses that type of capitalization, then I know it's just a matter of time before it catches on.
Regards,
PHB
who cares (Score:5, Insightful)
Does the capitalization improve or impede understanding in any way?
English is a fluid language, constantly changing and slightly different everywhere.
It has different spelling pronounciation and accents everywhere. Despite the best hopes of the wannabe language police, english has and will continue to change.
Yes it does (Score:3, Interesting)
"Despite the best hopes of the wannabe language police, english has and will continue to
Name of place (Score:5, Insightful)
A proper name of place is capitalized, hence i capitalize the Internet accordingly.
Re:Name of place (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's also important to make the distinction because there isn't just one internet or network or web. It is possible to do internetworking without connecting your inernet to the Internet. Similarly, the Net isn't the only net - heck, a purist would argue there's more room for confusion if you don't capitalize this one - most people don't deal with internets other than the Internet, but everyone deals with nets that aren't the Internet. (Considering that the Inter
Re:Name of place (Score:4, Insightful)
Silly (Score:3, Insightful)
I find it amusing that uber hype-mongers Wired (sorry "wired") claim that there was never any need to capitalize, they probably are responsible for it in the first place...
Differences in context (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I don't think the same works for "Internet." Especially since there's something called "Internet 2."
As far as 'net' goes, if you're talking about "on the Net" you'd capitalize on whether it's your LAN, or on the Internet.
But I do have one question.. Is it now TCP/ip?
Unfortunately... (Score:5, Funny)
Tanenbaum (Score:5, Informative)
It's always been capitalised and always will be AFIAC.
The Internet vs. private internets. (Score:4, Informative)
AP Stylebook (Score:4, Funny)
Re:AP Stylebook (Score:3, Informative)
1) Associated Press is a business. Reuters, for example, has its own style guide and it doesn not have to conform, in any way, to its competitor AP.
2) It has also been tradition, from periodical to periodical, to allow for institutional style. The comma choices are one example, as many periodicals choose to list things in an "A, B and C" format, whereas traditional periodicals still prefer the traditional "A,B, and C." And then there are more formal choices such as, for example
Wikipedia comment (Score:5, Informative)
Worldwide Web (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh my god, the internet's been kleenexed (Score:5, Funny)
cummings
would
be
proud
Some cap changes (Score:5, Interesting)
Hmm, I guess ms will try to use meta tags and other technology to "clean up" documents, especially those that have "microsoft" (lower-casing/deprecation intentional) in them. Or, didn't they try that, only to be blasted for over-reaching into peoples' documents?
When will we get people to correctly use:
-"log on" as a verb and "logon" as the noun?
-"insecure" for emotional states of mind
-"non-secure" regarding the nature of the Internet. The Internet cannot be "insecure", since it is not a sentient/organic/thinking thing.
When I was aboardship/aboard ship, and was Petty Officer of the Watch, I/we answered the landline/land line as "Quarterdeck, USS Flint. Petty Officer Syes Speaking. This is a non-secure line; how may I help you sir, or ma'am?"
Phone lines are never insecure, so why the Internet? I think it was because a bunch of marketers took over the security message aspect of the Internet. Or, some engineers who are FANTASTIC programmers just happened to select the wrong word from the dictionary and it "stuck".
Even "unsecure" might seem better that "insecure".
=========
Hmmm... I just ran a "dictionary.com" search on "insecure" and got these:
1. Not sure or certain; doubtful: unemployed and facing an insecure future.
2. Inadequately guarded or protected; unsafe: A shortage of military police made the air base insecure.
3. Not firm or fixed; unsteady: an insecure foothold.
4. Lacking stability; troubled: an insecure relationship.
5. Lacking self-confidence; plagued by anxiety: had always felt insecure at parties.
========
Well, to me, number 2 sounds stupid, as if someone POST-COLDWAR got caught up in the "insecure Internet" description thing.
I guess I'll have to go to pre-Internet boom dictionaries to find out if "insecure" back then was described as in item #2 above...
David Syes
Internet vs. internet (Score:5, Informative)
Excellent info. on WIkipedia... (Score:5, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet
and I appreciate the manner in which it addresses the "popular parlance" for "internet" in terms of the commonly used services on the Internet, e.g. "A system running internet services." (my example, based on Wikipedia's narrative).
There is also a good discussion of Capitonyms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitonym
I think Wikipedia got it right.
Re:Excellent info. on WIkipedia... (Score:3, Insightful)
That said... Dude, cmdrtaco! Why are you linking to a talk page from Slashdot? =b Now I've had to go and protect it from editing. Articles, sure, that's OK, but talk pages? This is new.
Stupid Wired (Score:5, Insightful)
(b) Insofar as there is a correct way of doing things, "Internet" should be capitalized. We use "the Internet". It is a proper noun (which, surprise surprise, should be capitalized) that refers to something quite different from "an internet" -- I can build "an internet" running IPX attaching a couple of networks, but "the Internet" runs IP and is a rather large entity that currently spans the world.
(c) I hate journalists that try to leave their mark on the world by affecting the language.
(d) Tell you what. I think that there's "no reason to capitalize 'Wired'" -- after all, there's another term, "wired", which exists, and surely we should just merge the two. So from now on, "Wired" can be referred to as "wired". Of course, the newly-redubbed "wired" people will probably take issue with this, as it's confusing and doesn't gain anything, and violates English rules, but I want to get my name out there on etymologies for mucking with a word. It's "wired" now. Oh, and "Tony Long", the editor pushing this? He can be "tony long", or just "long" for short.
Language authorities (Score:4, Informative)
More importantly... (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, the NYT has a point. (Score:4, Informative)
MP3s is a good example. "MP3" is not a word. It is not even an acronym, since it has no discernible vowels and the "3" is clearly not a pronounceable letter. Furthermore, it does not have a meaningful plural form: MP3s would presumably be pronounced "em pee three ess", but the actual pronunciation "em pee threes" seems to suggest that there are a set of threes of the MP variety.
A really stuffy way of indicating what is intended would be to write "MP3"s, to indicate that the thing in quotes is actually a quotation of informal speech. So it is quite reasonable to put a less ostentatious punctuation mark to say "Hey, this is a complete bastardisation of English, but this is what people are using."
Personally, I think that "MP3 files" is clearer and less offensive to us grammar Nazis, but newspapers have to reflect real world usage.
Capitals... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Capitals... (Score:3, Interesting)
Also some words in English DO become phonetic over time:
e.g. draught vs. draft
It's a proper name (Score:5, Insightful)
~D
It's more like email was ditched for e-mail (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, if you follow the link [wired.com] in this particular line of the slashdot article, you'll find Wired News's article on why they abandoned 'email' for 'e-mail' -- because 'e-mail' is grammatically correct, and 'email' is not, at least according to their reasoning. (It's actually a pretty good article, and one I read years ago.) Wired News did this ostensibly because the medium has "grown up" and the stylistic rules for the publication should reflect this. Or something.
Were one to read the slashdot article without following the link, you'd think that Wired dumped the hyphen from 'e-mail,' when in fact they didn't dump the hyphen at all -- rather, they started using it. This usage agrees with Webster and the OED and various other style guides in the industry. The previous use of 'email' without the hyphen was what they got rid of.
Personally, I don't care if people capitalize 'internet' or not. I prefer to capitalize it in most of my writing, because the Internet is a thing, a unique entity unto itself, and deserves to be considered a proper noun. It's not quite the same thing as television, which is a more nebulous and abstract concept (the word could describe the technology in general, the broadcast standard, the hardware used to display the broadcasts, or the programming that is being broadcast).
Don't stop there, Wired! (Score:3, Interesting)
URL - url? (Score:4, Insightful)
It seems that everything that requires a bit more thinking or complexity, even if it's trivial, gets simplified. That is why we no longer have beautiful architecture, furniture, et cetera with ornaments, but rather super-simple, utilitarian everything.
Lame.
In other news.. (Score:3, Funny)
microsoft (Score:4, Funny)
Re:finally... really... (Score:3, Insightful)
While we're complaining... (Score:5, Informative)
The former is an abbreviation for the latin 'id est', which means 'that is'. It's a rephrasing of what came before.
Your use is probably not strictly wrong, as reading it with 'that is' works, just 'e.g.' ('exempli grati') would work better.
e.g., i.e. (Score:3, Funny)
Chili Palmer: "E.g." means "for example". What I think you want to use is "i.e.".
Ray "Bones" Barboni: Bullshit! That's short for "ergo".
Chili Palmer: Ask your man.
Bodyguard: To the best of my knowledge, "e.g." means "for example".
Ray "Bones
Re:finally... really... (Score:3, Interesting)
Probably has a lot to do with non-tech people not understanding the difference between a WAN and a LAN, and just referring to everything as an "interne
Re:finally... really... (Score:3, Informative)
I thought the point was that my 192.168.1.0/24 behind my linksys access point is "an internet". The 66.35.250.0/24 slashdot is on is "an internet" (unlike mine, a publicly routeable one). An internet is any network that uses, surprise surprise, the "internet protocol".
The largest internet, the one consisiting of all publicly routeable internets, was (until today at least) called "the Internet". Like most proper nounse, it is (was) capitalized.
Learn your Latin roots! (Score:5, Insightful)
What you are talking about is an intranet, not an internet. The Internet is the connection of multiple networks to each other. It is a network of networks, thus it sits between other networks and earns the inter- prefix. Intra- means within one's own logical grouping. A corporate network, Slashdot's server farms, and your person home network are intranets because they are a network of machines within one logical organization.
This is why there can be only one Internet unless you make a completely separate other network between networks that doesn't talk to the first one at all. That's very unlikely to happen until we start building colonies on other worlds, and we'll probably have slow, laggy connections between them even then. I see no reason to decapitalize the Internet since there can be only one. (No Highlander jokes, please.)
Re:Learn your Latin roots! (Score:5, Insightful)
A collection of machines that can talk directly to each other over a common link layer (like ethernet) is a network. A network may use IP for convenience, but if everyone's using the same subnet, its just a simple network. (Calling it an intranet may be correct, but it's not very informative (unless you're talking about administrative domains), since an intranet could be a network or an internetwork.)
A collection of interconnected networks that communicate using a common link-layer independant internetworking protocol (like IP) is an internet (regardless of whether it is connected to the Internet).
The Internet is the largest connected internet.
-jim
Re:Learn your Latin roots! (Score:3, Interesting)
You are attempting to pick words apart to prove what they actually mean. It'd be nice if languages were logical and that approach actually worked, but it doesn't.
"Anti-semitic", for example, doesn't mean "against semites", but "hating Jews", since that's what it was first coined for. "Homophobia" is not "fear of similarity" but of "homosexuals".
First there were
Re:finally... really... (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, there are such creatures, exactly as you suggest. The American and allied military and intelligence agencies run a SECRET-level internet called SIPRNET [fas.org](Secret Internet Protocol Router NETwork) and a TOP SECRET-level one called JDISS [fas.org] (Joint Deployable Intelligence Support System). They're completely separate from the Internet (the publicly accessible one), but they're sprawling, worldwide internets connecting tens of thousands of machines.
Chris
Re:finally... really... (Score:3, Interesting)
So as long as logic prohibits the simultaneos existence of maybe two "internets", it will be written with a capital "I". Same thing goes for God - only one instance, never will be a second one beside it/Him or whatever. Applies to trademarks, as they denote a certain brand that is "unique" in some way. Even if the
Re:The internet (Score:5, Funny)
"The internet is a communications tool used the world over where people can come together to bitch about movies and share pornography with one another."
Great movie.
Re:in other developments (Score:5, Funny)
=Smidge=
maybe you're just kidding, but (Score:5, Informative)
http://dir.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/10/05/g
Re:maybe you're just kidding, but (Score:4, Insightful)
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
OK. He didn't say "invented", but he didn't say anything about securing funding for the internet either. Gore used the word created, which is defined by the Merriam-Webster online dictionary as:
Main Entry: 1create
Pronunciation: krE-'At, 'krE-"
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): created; creating
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin creatus, past participle of creare; akin to Latin crescere to grow -- more at CRESCENT
transitive senses
1 : to bring into existence
2 a : to invest with a new form, office, or rank b : to produce or bring about by a course of action or behavior
3 : CAUSE, OCCASION
4 a : to produce through imaginative skill b : DESIGN
intransitive senses : to make or bring into existence something new.
The bottom line - Gore was claimed that the internet was created as the result of his initiative. While he may have contributed on a political level to its creation, that's not what he said, and his statement can readily be interpreted as him attempting to take more credit than he was properly entitled to. The "smear" has a basis in fact, if only because Gore didn't say what he later said he had meant to say.
And it was funny. It's the same sort of thing as Dan Quayle mispelling "potatoe". The statement was a mistake that made Gore look stupid and egotistical. The right capitalized on it in the same manner that the left capitalizes on Bush's mistatements and malapropisms.
Re:You know... (Score:3, Informative)
I'll never understand why this pathetic lameness is still considered funny for so long after the Republicans started exaggerating what Gore actually said [ucsd.edu]. Is it some sort of self-mocking humor by the people dumb enough to repeat it?
Re:You know... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Internet (Score:4, Insightful)
The Internet is a proper noun referring to the worldwide public internet managed by the IETF. It is to distinguish this specific internet named the Internet from the private and restricted access internets that it should remain capitalised.
Re:News? (Score:3, Funny)