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The Almighty Buck

AXA sues Google over AdWords 366

Da Fokka writes "Insurance company AXA is suing Google in a french court because a search for 'AXA' results in links to their competitors. A similar claim was initially awarded but successfully appealed by Google. If this claim is successful, this could be quite a setback for Google's business model."
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AXA sues Google over AdWords

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  • by Allen Zadr ( 767458 ) * <Allen.Zadr@nOspaM.gmail.com> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:23AM (#8982963) Journal

    The last appeal (better described in an alternate story [weblogsinc.com] ) was overturned because all of the words involved were dictionary words, and that it was unrealistic to expect a trademark search for every AdWords sale.

    However, there is no doubt that AXA isn't found in most dictionaries, certainly not English or French - so it would seem they actually have a good chance of loosing this lawsuit.

  • by stecoop ( 759508 ) * on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:26AM (#8982991) Journal
    Even in sue happy America this case would be dismissed. It's like suing a library because I went to look for say McDonalds and found that Burger King also sells hamburgers. McDonalds is mad wanting to bundle library with a default configuration whereby McDonald's information is installed in the library and cannot be removed once installed nor can it be collocated with other Hamburger joints. Now that McDonalds has the market captured it can now be the dominate player in the hamburger field (reminiscent of a browser pun everyone). So now that McDonalds has the default configuration of libraries setup, McDonalds can now expand to, say, French Fires - you now must eat vegetable fried fries with fake beef flavoring [cnn.com]. Did this court also award any damages from Amazons one click shopping scheme [gnu.org]? This is crazy I'll stop now...
  • by Brento ( 26177 ) * <brento.brentozar@com> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:29AM (#8983031) Homepage
    It's like suing a library because I went to look for say McDonalds and found that Burger King also sells hamburgers.

    A better analogy is that you opened the phone book's white pages to look up McDonald's, and saw a Burger King ad right next to the McDonald's listing.

    In the Yellow Pages, a commercial directory, you clearly expect to find businesses advertised by category. In the White Pages, customers are listed by name instead. AXA is trying to say that Google should limit itself to being a white pages index of the web, which is rubbish.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:29AM (#8983035)
    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/24/202821 6&mode=thread

    "If this claim is successful, this could be quite a setback for Microsoft's business model."

    Nice consistent unbiased reporting there, guys. :)
  • by i88i ( 720935 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:29AM (#8983046)
    when i go through the big phat yellow pages directory, looking for the "Blud E. Good Plumbing" phone number, i am subjected to other adverts of rival plumbing services. The Yellow pages are profiting from this, so why shouldn't google?
  • Sue Amazon! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:32AM (#8983077)
  • by Short Circuit ( 52384 ) <mikemol@gmail.com> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:35AM (#8983102) Homepage Journal
    That's exactly what the "yellow pages" are for. And AdWords is a lot like the yellow pages in that they show you businesses related to what you're searching for.

    AXA should be suing their competitor, not Google. What their competitor did is tantamount to hanging an advertisement for their business under AXA's streetside sign.
  • by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:38AM (#8983136)
    If google loses in court they should refuse to index AXA _at all

    Why wait until they lose? yank their cord now and give them a sense of reality.

    Who says google has to list anybody?

  • by Noryungi ( 70322 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:42AM (#8983188) Homepage Journal
    Let's take a step back for just a second. Std Disclaimer: IANAL, but I play one on /.

    If "AXA" wins, this means that using its name is forbidden, unless the company gives its approval beforehand. This imposes an undue restriction on freedom of speech, since Google is certainly not the only forum in which AXA is discussed and/or searched. Will this company sue, let's say, every newspapers or forums that discuss insurance companies and/or policies? Unlikely.

    A few years ago, AXA may have argue its case by saying that it was 'undue competition', since France had laws prohibiting comparative commercials (Product A is better than product B because of...). But this is not the case anymore and comparative commercials are now legal in France.

    Google may also argue that AdWords do not 'target' AXA, since -- AFAIK -- they are generated automatically. AXA is an insurance company (this is public knowledge). Therefore, a Google search on, say 'life insurance' would return pretty much the same AdWords results.

    Therefore, I think AXA does not have a case. I also believe they know it, but that some over-zealous jerk in its Legal Dept decided to press the case anyway, just to make a point. They are just throwing good money out the window.

    This may seem surprising, but French courts have proven in the past to be remarkably reasonable when it came to the Internet (Yahoo! 'nazi' case aside) and the previous decision is a case in point, since AXA lost it.

    I fully expect Google to fight this all the way to the French Supreme Court (Cour de Cassation), if need be. And I expect them to win.

    Just my 0.02 Euros...
  • Re:Responsibility? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:46AM (#8983244) Homepage
    Google's primary purpose is INFORMATION, not the aforementioned advertisement.

    Absolutely not. Google is a profit-seeking company, and as a commercial entity Google's primary purpose is the advert, not the information. The information is the lure to get you to see the advert.

    Cheers,
    Ian

  • Re:Responsibility? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by goldspider ( 445116 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:48AM (#8983263) Homepage
    "If I'm looking for something to purchase, I'm generally more concerned with price & availability than who I buy FROM. It's in this area that Google shines, offering a plethora of various places to buy/rent from."

    But this isn't about people searching for "insurance", with links to a variety of insurance companies' websites being returned.

    This is about people searching for "AXA", a specific insurance company, with links to a variety of insurance companies' websites being returned.

    "just because you've coined some obscure acronym for yourself or your business, does that mean it's Google's responsibility to insure that people find you during their search?"

    Isn't the point of a search engine to accurately return the information that people are searching for? If a user searches for "AXA" using Google, and instead has a bunch of other insurance companies returned, at best I'd say Google's search engine needs a little work.

  • by Mikkeles ( 698461 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:49AM (#8983278)
    Well, I typed "AXA" into Google and the first ten items were all related to AXA Insurance and the only ad was for a financial company's web page discussing AXA.
    Unless there has been a quick change by Google, my opinion is that AXA is FoS!
    Having the words "insurance" or "assurance" anywhere in one's search should trigger any insurance companies ads.
  • by StrongAxe ( 713301 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:50AM (#8983286)
    The Scientology nuts are complaining that a search for "scientology" also results in anti-scientology sites. Should they be awarded damages too?

    I don't think so.


    True. However, if somebody paid Google to put an anti-Scientology site higher up on the list, this is no longer a matter of neutral search results, but a wilful use of a trademarked name. This isn't about searching, but about commercial profit out of someone else's trademark.
  • Better analogy yet (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ThinWhiteDuke ( 464916 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @09:56AM (#8983363)
    A better analogy is that you opened the phone book's white pages to look up McDonald's, and saw a Burger King ad right next to the McDonald's listing.

    I've RTFA but frankly, there's not much information in there. Still, I guess that the reason why Axa sued is that the ad links mentioned the brand name "AXA". So maybe the proper analogy would be that you opened the white pages to look for McDonald's and see an ad for "McDonald's something" with the address and phone# of a BK.

    Still not sure that this would justify a lawsuit but at least it's not that clear-cut.
  • by TheRealStyro ( 233246 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:00AM (#8983415) Homepage
    I don't see any problem. The Google search engine is doing exactly as it should - it is finding matching/close references within its website database. It just makes sense that the engine will find competitors/similar sites. A lawsuit over a service that is performing as it should should be dismissed immediately (with a warning to the industry not to try this stunt again).
  • by shawn(at)fsu ( 447153 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:00AM (#8983422) Homepage
    This is the first time that I've seen a good analogy on Slashdot. I think Google should hire you for the legal team.

    It's better than the Wookie Defense.
  • by EXTomar ( 78739 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:14AM (#8983568)
    Open up the yellow page phone book you have next to your phone. Look up any topic like "lawyers" and you'll find not one lawyer but a whole gaggle. Now AXA would have you believe this is wrong. When you open up the phone book looking around for something and you stumble across AXA it should be the only available financial institution? Is this what AXA really believes?

    Why are companies afraid of competition? Because it makes them work a little bit harder? Shesh. Instead of suing Google who about count this as a blessing (aka free advertising) and get your marketing people to figure out away to capture the attention of people who when given a choice would want to choose AXA?
  • by 16K Ram Pack ( 690082 ) <(moc.liamg) (ta) (dnomla.mit)> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:15AM (#8983581) Homepage
    If you are insured with them, don't renew. Tell them why.

    I'm fed up with companies trying to assert things that vaguely might belong to them. IMO you don't have rights to people not using your name. I've seen plenty of comparison adverts in the UK for cars, and that's perfectly legal.

    What's their big problem anyway? I search for Axa because I want Axa and get some results for someone else? Well, maybe the "someone else" does it better and I might discover that? That, is what we in the free world call competition. If not, I'll find the site PDQ.

  • by JohnFluxx ( 413620 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:16AM (#8983593)
    It is scummy. Why should you be able to advertise under someone else's name?
    When people search for your competitors products, they don't want to see your ads.
    Perhaps you should 1) work on improving your own image, so people would actually search for you, or 2) shut the hell up.

    Few things are worse than a company that acts immorally then excuses it as "that's business"
  • Re:Responsibility? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by goldspider ( 445116 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:21AM (#8983649) Homepage
    But this isn't about the general search results; this is about what comes up in the "Sponsored Links". Google controls what shows up there, or more accurately, controls the keywords (Adwords) that triggers the results there.

    Being that these results are generated by Google, it's Google's responsibility to make sure that none of their sponsors are abusing other companies' trademarks.

  • by brianjcain ( 622084 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:25AM (#8983704) Journal
    What incentive does Google have to produce "accurate" results? Merely financial. The fact that google produces what's considered to be dependable search results given some search terms seems totally irrelevant. Google is beholden only to its investors (and it's still privately held, so the list probably isn't enormous). Google's ranking algorithm(s) are susceptible to abuse, and perhaps a competitor of AXA has done just so. But I wouldn't care if Google intentionally produced AXA's competitors as results for searches on "AXA". What right has anyone to demand that Google produce more accurate results (presumes that searching for "AXA" means that AXA's website is the desired result)?
  • by Shelrem ( 34273 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:28AM (#8983743)
    Aren't people on Slashdot supposed to be good at analogies? The yellow pages are indexed by general terms like "plumbing." Look up "Geico" in the yellow pages and you won't find anything, but look up "car insurance" and you might.

    To put it another way, your analogy would be valid if AXA was suing for being listed next to a competitor when someone searches for life insurance. Alternately, you'd also be right if i could take out an ad in the white pages, and list my service under a competitor's registered trademark.

    I don't really know how i feel about this suit, but i do know some faulty rhetoric when i see it.

    b.c
  • Re:Responsibility? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by arkanes ( 521690 ) <arkanes@NoSPam.gmail.com> on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:29AM (#8983763) Homepage
    Actually, this isn't (yet) true. As a private company, Google has no obligation whatsoever to be a souless capital seeking machine, and is perfectly free to decide that it's primarly an information service, with the advertising and cash flow being a useful side effect. And, judging from both Googles origins and it's actions I suspect thats more or less how the company views itself.
  • by e-Motion ( 126926 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:32AM (#8983789)
    If "AXA" wins, this means that using its name is forbidden, unless the company gives its approval beforehand. This imposes an undue restriction on freedom of speech, since Google is certainly not the only forum in which AXA is discussed and/or searched. Will this company sue, let's say, every newspapers or forums that discuss insurance companies and/or policies? Unlikely.

    It's slightly more complicated. The problem with Google's ads (as explained by Playboy's lawyer in this article [theage.com.au]) is that they confuse the user into thinking that the company that they searched for sponsored the ad. Don't confuse it with an effort to eliminate AXA from all web pages everywhere.

    It's very similar to domain name squatting. If you go to www.ford.com, you expect to find a company named Ford (most likely Ford motor company), not a redirect to www.honda.com. If you instead found information about a competitor, you might think that the company supports the competitor, which is does not. When you think of this case as if it were about a domain name, it doesn't appear to be as simple as others present it.
  • by jwdb ( 526327 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @10:52AM (#8984029)
    Too bad for your congresscritters that the `french' in french fries mainly refers to the way they are cut, not to their inventors. It was brought to English-speaking countries from France and of course dubbed `fries cut in the french fashion', but in France they are simply referred to as potatoe fries. Who actually invented them is up to debate - we Belgians like to take the credit, but on the other hand, we were part of France when fries first appeared...

    In any case, if you want good fries today, come to Belgium. You don't know what you've been missing. :)

    Jw
  • by WNight ( 23683 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @11:05AM (#8984201) Homepage
    If someone comes into your store and asks for a Pepsi you can say "I don't sell Pepsi, would you like a Coke?" And in fact, what else could you do? Just say no without offering any alternatives? Would it be allowable to offer a beer, but not a Coke?

    Anyways, all Google's ad was doing was suggesting alternatives, not misrepresenting them as the trademark owner. Saying "Yeah, I know you want that company, but have you considered this other company?" Nothing illegal because there's no misrepresentation. (Not inherently, that would depend on if the company in the ad pretended to be AXA, not simply that they wanted to be listed as an alternative.)

    Had they silently redirected your request from Coke to Pepsi, bringing the wrong beverage, that would be a trademark violation.
  • by Seehund ( 86897 ) on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @11:54AM (#8984850) Homepage Journal
    It is more like going into a store, asking for a Pepsi, and then getting handed a Coke with a Pepsi label on it.

    No, not at all.

    If you clicked on a link claiming to lead to this AXA insurance company, but instead was taken to the website of AXA's competitor, then your analogy would be appropriate.

    This is however NOT what's happening here.

    1. You search for "AXA", and get AXA's website as a search result.

    2. Next to the list of search results, you ALSO get an ad from a company in the same line of business, that does NOT claim to be affiliated with AXA in any way, and it's clearly separated from the search results, preceded by a text saying "Sponsored link".
  • Re:Responsibility? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday April 27, 2004 @12:43PM (#8985523)
    Google isn't banking on AXA's name, they're using the correlation between the AXA name and a particular type of product.
    That's the point of registering a trademark, so that no-one can use your name to associate their similar product with a competitor's brand. This is a no-brainer trademark case, but I agree with all the other comments that say that they should be suing their competitor, not Google.

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