Task Force Finds Blackout Was Preventable 438
Shakrai writes "In what will probably be the last we hear of this subject CNN is carrying a story that states what we already suspected: the August blackout was preventable. One of the more interesting observations from this article is that this task force will remain active for the next year to push for their changes and improvements to be adopted. Does anyone think any change will come of this? If you lived in the Northeast US or Canada what were your memories of the August Blackout?" The full report is available at reports.energy.gov.
Always More Power... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Always More Power... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Always More Power... (Score:5, Insightful)
What would the alternatives be? Household generated power? As long as your electricity is generated centrally (regardless of the source), you will always need powerlines. And as long as the population keeps growing, the demand for more power will require more powerlines.
Re:Always More Power... (Score:2, Funny)
And as long as the population keeps growing, the demand for more power will require more powerlines.
Ah, but you can't blame it all on population growth. Our 2000" plama TVs and weapons grade subwoofers are adding to the problem.
Re:Always More Power... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Always More Power... (Score:3, Informative)
Go for it. Be green and poor, all at the same time!
Re:Always More Power... (Score:4, Insightful)
Both will help reduce the amount of new powerlines required.
In addition, laws can be passed requiring minimum efficiencies.
There could be tax breaks given to companies that reduce their peak use (telecommuting / opening at night).
None of these necessitate more powerlines.
In addition, the blackout didn't happen 10 years ago.
What has changed since then? Deregulation.
Re:Always More Power... (Score:3, Insightful)
I look into solar power every once in a while. As it stands, a typical suburban grid-addict like myself has almost no useful options. First off, those appliances you list form a tidy list of things that you can't run off of solar-panel charged batteries; High-current appliances really make the batteries work hard
Re:Always More Power... (Score:3, Funny)
cold
darkness
poverty
hardship
In different combinations at varying levels.
Always More Power... YOU BETCHA! (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, as a society we consume the amount of electricity we do because we demand the standard of living that we do. When you are ready to give up your computer / TV / radio / stereo / CD player / car / iPod (yes, your iPod will have to go!), then go ahead and harp all you want about energy consumption. Untill then...
Re:Always More Power... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Always More Power... (Score:2)
There's the geothermal option to heat your house which basically runs a pipe down into the earth where it's warm and then takes the warmth and pumps it to the house.
Then there is solar power. Unless you live out in Arizona or somewhere that get's lots of sun you can't really run entirely on this but you can use it to suppliment your power. Plus if you go away or something, you can actually give power back to the power company and build up a credi
Re:Always More Power... (Score:3, Funny)
Whoa, michael not only posted the story, but got first post too... impressive.
"The world's greatest machine" (Score:5, Interesting)
Guinnessy writes "The latest issues of the Industrial Physicist [tipmagazine.com] suggests that 'the vast system of electricity generation, transmission, and distribution that covers the United States and Canada is essentially a single machine [tipmagazine.com] -- by many measures, the world's biggest machine.' The article says that because deregulation ignored the physics of the machine, we have blackouts, a fact the industry warned regulators about in 1998. It has some nice hard science data for those interested in why we're going to get some more blackouts in the future unless Congress gets its act together." I work with power utilities -- this is the best single explanation I've seen of the underlying problems of transmission management and regulation in the U.S.
my memories... (Score:2)
it was pretty insane to see aerial pictures of NYC (no not the fake "satelite", gimped ones where they used a black smudge tool over the northeast.
change is hard to produce. it's co$$$t$$$
Memories? (Score:5, Funny)
It was dark and there were no computers.
Re:Memories? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Memories? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Memories? (Score:2)
*rimshot*
Re:Memories? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Memories? (Score:3, Funny)
Fortunately we were already invited by Canadian friends that night for dinner. They just threw a barbequeue instead. They had gotten large bags of ice (just in time, people were lining up for those) to keep the beer cool. Friends and family came over and we had a great party !
Economist Article (Score:5, Interesting)
It was mainly in favor of decentralization and mimicking the internet in terms of distributing power to remote locations. Smaller more 'frequent' stations placed around the country would allow power to be routed 'around' a dead area should the surrounding stations lose contact with it-- I suppose that explaining that here was sort of moot:)
Anyway, I think that they've adopted this method in Denmark and it's been working excellently despite the initial skepticism of critics.
Re:Economist Article (Score:2, Insightful)
Part of the reason of the attitude is... (Score:2)
You can do the Denmark thing rather easily with much smaller power plants. Something on the order of 100kW to 10MW that would nearly be unobtrusive compared to the traditional 100+MW plants people see. The big reason why you don't see micro plants is that they're more expensive to operate and therefore cut into the power companies' margins.
Re:Economist Article (Score:5, Interesting)
It's being done here, too (Score:2, Informative)
Check out Plug Power [plugpower.com] too
Re:Economist Article (Score:2)
Economist ??
Where do your loyalties lie?
Our very own slashdot [slashdot.org] had that story. Well, so the slashdot story is about the Economist article of which you speak, but still ...
Re:Economist Article (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Economist Article (Score:5, Interesting)
Sure, widely distributed smaller stations would make the whole grid more stable. If you use such things as natural gas cogeneration, it might also be cheaper than current systems and more environmentally friendly to boot.
At the end of the day, this debate will be settled if corporations are allowed to look for the cheapest energy solutions. The fact we're not building many more nuclear plants has less to do with NIMBY movements than hard economics: they cost more than coal and natural gas.
Cost-effective co-generators are getting better, and growing their market share. In my region, a mid-sized university is trying to have one installed, fighting against government regulators that would let the local monopoly simply add a turbine to one of their old plants.
Meanwhile, wind [earth-policy.org] is dropping in price [earth-policy.org]: from $0.38 per Kilowatt-Hour in 1982 to $0.18 in 1990. Prices are now under $0.06, and it is "projected that the average cost per kilowatt hour of wind-generated electricity will drop to 2.6 by 2010 and to 2.1 by 2020."
Additional wind and co-generation capacity can be added much, much faster than new nuclear plants can be built, and in smaller increments.
For all those reasons, a system like the one you describe is not only a good thing, it is the most likely one to happen.
And how much did these geniuses cost us? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:And how much did these geniuses cost us? (Score:2)
Everything is bigger... (Score:3, Funny)
Even power outages
Dark (Score:3, Funny)
Security Focus (Score:5, Informative)
got me outside (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:got me outside (Score:2)
My memory of the blackout amounts to coming into work on the Monday afterwards and being asked "So, you were right in the middle of the blackout area...how did it affect you?" and responding "There was a blackout?"
It didn't affect the firepits, *or* the solar showers :)
What were -my- memories?! (Score:3, Insightful)
Fruits of reckless privatization (Score:3, Interesting)
I just wonder if the industries in general are self-regulating themselves as well as this when it comes to environmental issues and maintaining fair competition in the markets.
I fear not.
Re:Fruits of reckless privatization (Score:4, Insightful)
Environmental Issues are not self-regulated; "fortunately" (tongue-in-cheek) we have the government to police it for us [epa.gov]. Bulk power generators are very regulated on emissions, even to the point that generators will take outages for "opacity" indicating they have reached their "pollution credit" limit and can't generate electricity anymore.
Market Monitoring, however, is self-regulating, and so far has proven to be a critical source of improvement. They are tasked with finding market power issues, and defusing them so noone has unfair advantages over any other players. For the east coast players, PJM [pjm.com], NYISO [nyiso.com], ISO-NE [iso-ne.com]... California ISO used to have one, until they dismantled their market, not sure what happened to it. S.E.Trans (~4 states in SouthEast) agreements fell apart. ERCOT (Texas) is pretty well along (I seem to recall a market overhaul brought on by recommendations on local pricing), and MISO was going to start a market, but after the blackout decided to delay theirs... and the rest of the country is barely ready to de-regulate.
I fear more about the regulated utilities, because they operate in a closed fashion, socializing the cost of their problems over all their customers, and preventing outside entities from building improvements in their systems...
Terrorism (Score:2)
I was working, at compusa (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I was working, at compusa (Score:5, Funny)
riiiiiigggggghhhhhhtttt
Re:I was working, at compusa (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I was working, at compusa (Score:5, Funny)
Stories like that are supposed to start like this:
Dear Penthouse,
I never thought these stories were true, then one day...
Or something along those lines.
Things do go wrong (Score:5, Informative)
However, according to the article, there were rules in place to stop this happened, which were not followed (Quote: "Many reliability rules were ignored during the outages, the task force said.").
Also, it says:
"As it did in its interim report, the task force largely blamed FirstEnergy Corp., [...] faulting the company's lack of communication, faulty equipment and inadequate training"
These two points draw the line on acceptable accidents. This not only should have been prevented, but also it is due to neglect of rules and short-sightedness which caused it to happen.
History Channel special (Score:3, Funny)
Re:History Channel special (Score:2, Informative)
Blackout of '03 @ Toronto, in Pictures (Score:5, Informative)
Well, a few days after the blackout I made a photo-documentary of the 'mayhem' that was downtown Toronto during the great blackout of '03.
The documentary is located here [uwaterloo.ca]
What memories? (Score:2)
You insensitive clod! I live in Massachusetts.
My memory (Score:2, Interesting)
I was at Pennsic [pennsicwar.org], a medieval camping event near Pittsburg. We were right near the boarder of the affected area; I don't know if we were hit or not--when you're trying to live in the 13th century, you don't notice when the power goes out.
In the Buffalo, NY area... ah, the memories (Score:3, Interesting)
First they blamed CANADA (Score:2, Insightful)
No shit it was preventable, we've got a 50 year old electric grid in desperate need of repair. Maybe some of the $87 Billion that going to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure could rebuild our electrical grid. The sad reality is that by the end of 2004, Iraq will have a more modern Power Grid than NYC and the whole golden horseshoe
Re:First they blamed CANADA (Score:2)
Well at least it would give those Uconn students a good reason to riot and burn cars...
Re:First they blamed CANADA (Score:2)
Re:First they blamed CANADA (Score:2)
Re:First they blamed CANADA (Score:3, Interesting)
That's not exactly the way I remember it happening..
Re:First they blamed CANADA (Score:2, Flamebait)
What were my memories? (Score:2)
Cursing myself that I didn't fill up my car on the way home. Traffic was horrible and I just got home on fumes. However, for some reason, I remember waking up at 2AM, looking out my apartment window, and noticing my local McDonalds and Petro Canada gas station had power. So, I phoned them to find out they had power and were pumping gas (at regular prices, not the "99.9/l" price). So, my wife and I went and got gas
what I remember (Score:3, Informative)
I thought it was an interesting phenomenon. We should have periodic, planned blackouts more often!
Not to mention the urban backyard astronomers, who would be very happy too.
withdrawl (Score:4, Funny)
Re:withdrawl (Score:2)
Hmm...duh. (Score:2)
Blackout (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree the system has problems that need to be addressed as I do not know how long hospitals/fire/police can last on battery power but this really seems like the media wanted to drag it out too
My memories (Score:2)
Again! Again!
Blackout Memories (Score:2, Interesting)
Texas. (Score:2, Interesting)
Rather nice considering the state of the other two main grids in the country.
i left work at 4:05 (Score:5, Interesting)
walking home, i noticed people filing out of upscale shops with alarms going off on 57th st in midtown manhattan. it was kind of funny: the whole block is out of power, the snobs can't get their overpriced crap, haha.
but as i got closer home, and the streets filled with more and more and more people, and the gridlock and honking horns ensued since the traffic lights were out, and i watched people unable to operate their cell phones, and fighting over access to the public phones, i started to lose my sense of humor.
than a red-faced guy ran by: toronto is out! he was shouting.
i survived sept 11th (until that day i worked at 5 world trace center, which was reduced to a charred husk), so this was now very not funny.
when i got home, i speculated with my super that is was either the heat, the latest windows wonder worm making it's rounds, or al qaeda.
but the night was, with relief, uneventful. listening to the radio, i learned the last blackout in nyc decades ago was filled with looting. but the bars around times square were doing smashing business: they lost refirdgeration, so they had to get rid of their beer anyways, and no one could get home or do anything productive, so everyone was getting drunk.
so a night that i thought would be spent in paranoia and fear, was spent with happy drunks and a sort of casual immediate sense of community, what with thousands of people sleeping in the streets in tims square.
the morning was filled with satellite news crews from everywhere (so that's what bill hemmer looks like in real life) making grand standing journalism in times square, jockeying for good vantage points on every corner, so clearly, it was now a comic circus again.
everyone walked everywhere, which is good for your heart, and people were filled with drunken wonder, not terror, so the blackout in times square was, in recollection, not so awful.
NERC Recommendations (Score:5, Informative)
1. Correct the Direct Causes of the August 14, 2003 Blackout - don't let this happen again and how can we fix it.
2. Strengthen the NERC Compliance Enforcement Program - if you don't follow the rules and regulation your going to get fined with a heavier hand.
3. Initiate Control Area and Reliability Coordinator Reliability Readiness Audits - standardization.
4. Evaluate Vegetation Management Procedures and Results. - cut the stupid trees out of the power lines.
5. Establish a Program to Track Implementation of Recommendations - adopt changes consistently and measure your progress in regards to outages.
6. Improve Operator and Reliability Coordinator Training. - Homer Simpson really doesn't run a nuclear power plant
7. Evaluate Reactive Power and Voltage Control Practices - ensure that the power plant has reserve capacity to pickup it's load if something goes wrong instead of shutting down completely.
8. Improve System Protection to Slow or Limit the Spread of Future Cascading Outages - isolate the outages in a better fashion.
9. Clarify Reliability Coordinator and Control Area Functions, Responsibilities, Capabilities and Authorities - someone needs to run the show and have authority to delegate tasks.
10. Establish Guidelines for Real-Time Operating Tools - more network monitoring and voltage gauges.
11. Evaluate Lessons Learned During System Restoration - we paid a big price for this mistake, you better get something out of it.
12. Install Additional Time-Synchronized Recording Devices as Needed - to much data to evaluate in real-time.
13. Reevaluate System Design, Planning and Operating Criteria - the electrical network couldn't handle this outage so address the root cause.
14. Improve System Modeling Data and Data Exchange Practices - we didn't have a good simulator to forecast outages and handle it properly.
Should happen more. (Score:5, Insightful)
My experience: Absolutely fantastic. People who are normally spending all day watching TV or behind a computer (yes, I'm guilty too) sat outside reading books, playing games, enjoying the sunset or taking a stroll through the forest.
And the sight of an entire town lit by nothing but moonlight is not something I'll easily forget. I'm probably sounding like a whiny bastard, but that event made me seriously doubt whether all the technology we have today have actually made life better as we like to tell ourselves.
Re:Should happen more. (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Medicine. Any time I feel bad about technology's effects, I look at things like infant mortality, rates of disease, average lifespan. It's incredible what we've done there to improve the human condition.
2) Communication. The sheer fact that we can communicate instantly, anywhere in the world, is amazing. This helps to expose us to so much more information and so many viewpoints. It a
What about Schneier's virus hypothesis? (Score:3, Interesting)
It's only a hypothesis, of course. His argument is basically, "Here's some really, really compelling circumstantial evidence; somebody should look in to this."
I wonder: Did anybody look into it? Has anybody heard any more about this intriguing theory? Do we know what the problem with the operational machines actually was from this new report? Just what problem was FirstEnergy's IT staff fixing?
Generator baby! (Score:2)
During peak use times, our electric company asks local businesses to switch to generator power. We didn't know for a while after the fact (i.e. - clients behind PBXs were unreachable, etc) that there was a blackout for a little while.
I was tempted to stay in my office overnight, but there were no comfortable places to sleep and I ran out of change for the snack machine. While most people sweltered, I had air condi
Ahh, memories.... (Score:2, Funny)
That afternoon everyone came out of their labs, immediately saying "It wasn't *my* lab, we didn't even have anything plugged in! Who did it?! Who turned something on! 'Fess up now!"
Then everyone began to get worried when they noticed that the library across the street was also without power. "Ohhh no. What did we do? I thought the transformer was meant to shutdown if something happened!"
Of course someone had a dynamo radio o
Cool at first, but no fun after 3 days. (Score:2, Informative)
On friday morning I learned the office was closed (woo-hoo) and by 10am the power was back on. Unforunately at 10:30 the power was off again.
Turns out the the initial draw was too much for the local station and caused a fire. As most of rest of the city was lit up around me on Friday night, I was still in
No memory at all (Score:4, Interesting)
Curiously, I work at a research hospital with a large collection of refrigerated brains (no kidding, honestly), so we have our own power backup and probably would have stayed up anyway. (Of course we pump out juice to the local town when they're low, so it's possible we would have been dragged down with them.)
Preventable? Yes. Fixable? No. (Score:2, Insightful)
Expect more. Much more from the next blackout.
Remember Ontario: You elected the government you deserve.
My Memories (Score:3, Interesting)
At about 4:30 (when the UPS's died) we left. At this point we knew a couple of things. The entire North East had lost power, up to Ohio and parts of Canada. We knew nothing else since we didn't have a radio with us, so I left to go home and was a bit worried about what actually happened. I found out on the streets while walking from Wall St. to the Brooklyn Bridge. On the way there, I decided to go to Heartland Brewery and have a few pints. After it got dark they kicked everyone out because we couldn't see anymore. They had also run out of all alcohol mixers, so it was beer only (until they ran out of that). Luckly beer was powered through with kegs and tanks, so beer flowed plenty. I was there with quite a few travellers and NYers alike. 8PM I decided to take the long walk home. Wow, so many people, and I got a great picture [5vs1.com] (mirror please...) of the NY skyline. Anyway, get across the bridge, and swarms of people are helping taffic - pretty cool, because otherwise it would be complete chaos. I was also greeted by the borough president - I guess he had nothing else to do.
Finally, walking down Atlantic Ave (quite busy avenue in Brooklyn) all the stores had set up on the street and so had the Deli's. Everything was cheap and everyone was drinking beer to keep cool. Who needs water? People were everywhere sitting on their roofs and stoops hanging out with friends and relaxing. People were running on the less crowded streets and playing games until it was too dark, and then the bars. My god, the bars were crowded that night. Every bar on Smith St (where a lot of bars and restaurants are in Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill area) was completely packed. It was a lot of fun. That was a great night to meet lots of random people and just laugh at the fact that no one has power.
I can't remember anything terrible that happened that night - except that I had to go to work the next morning and wait outside my building till 2pm (eventually went home because I wouldn't get in until after the market closed). Hey, if the blackout can happen again, so can all the fun. All in all, NYers pulled it together and helped each other out where needed, and managed to have fun at the same time. I'm just glad I lived in Brooklyn at the time and not upstate NY like some of my co-workers...
My memories? Bell sucks (Score:2, Informative)
So, I walk down the street to a pay-phone to make a call, cus whadda ya know, I'm all stocked up on blackout quarters.
New electronic Bell phones will not accept a quarter for a call when there is no power. I couldn't make a call in any way, or even get to the operator to make a collect call.
Sad, really.
I was in the wilderness (Score:2)
the blackout woke me up (Score:2, Interesting)
I still would have had to go to work that night. The factory where I was working, had been deemed "critical" by the US gov't when it was built, so it has its very own power plant, which is always war
Memories v2.0 (Detroit)? (Score:2, Interesting)
Memories... Blackout 2003 - Detroit, Michigan.
It was dark, but only when I turned my G2 Nitrolon [surefire.com] off.
Seriously though...
I enjoyed the time away from the computer as we visited with neighbors and enjoyed the cool-ness of the basement (finished) when in the house.
Interesting to hear about how people starting panicking after only 12 hours of being without power. Looting was minimal though, which was pleasantly surprising for the area we live in.
I think if the blackout had lasted much longer it would ha
memories? (Score:4, Insightful)
In fact, I wish we didn't have so many lights on at night. I don't think we need all the lights that we do have on after the sun sets. I'd say we could do with half, it'll save a lot of energy and it'd be a lot more pleasant. Of course the flip side of this is safety. Would people feel as safe walking around downtown anymore? Probably not. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.
PS I live in downtown Toronto, and it's generally quite bright even at 3am.
Sure, everyone will remember the blackout... (Score:2, Insightful)
due diligence by design (Score:2)
I also remember imagining a refrigerator-sized fuel-cell generator on every block, so this wouldn't happen (until the hydrogen supply ran out). Then I mentally added various redundancies, like rooftop solar and a windmill. Then I read the paper about the oil wars that continue to broil.
Memories?!?! This is Slashdot! (Score:4, Funny)
Alot of people were worried about me when I check back on the forums. Some peeps on IRC were like "where were you?!?". Gave em a real scare that time!
My memory: panic (Score:4, Interesting)
My memory of the blackout was first: 'darn, my power went out. I wonder if someone hit a pole'.
With by the realization that power was out as far as I could see I switched to mild panic wondering if this was the beginning of a massive terrorist attack (I'm in New York). The phones were out, cell phones were out as well, I had no battery powered radios so there was no way of getting information. I was wondering how in the hell I would get my family off of an island with millions of people. I can't get off this island in any reasonable time under normal conditions.
So I filled up as many bottles as I could find with water and put them all in the basement. I figured if the infrastructure went to hell I would need water for my family. I figured I'd hear about any contamination in the water within a few days and we'd drink juice and soda until then.
Then I found out it was a blackout and we had a barbecue with the neighbors and the kids had a great time playing with their dad who for once wasn't working all day.
It's nice to remember once in a while that it doesn't take much to be happy.
As a Massachusetts Resident... (Score:3, Interesting)
I also remember that the Daily Show played a lousy clip show that night. I was upset... I had hoped they would have battery-backup or something, and was looking forward to the Hillary Clinton interview (that was done later and turned out to be as boring as everyone else expected).
Er - that's about it, though.
I think some parts of MA were hit, but I live in the north-east section of MA, so the lights stayed on. Still plenty of people managed to panic anyway, thinking that the lights were going to go out "any minute now" but they never did. Apparently we just got lucky, though. Although I'm curious if our town would have lost power, since its public power system has proven to be very reliable and gets power from many sources. It's always fun when a snow-storm knocks out the surrounding towns power and our lights stay on. :)
My memory of that goddamn blackout (Score:2)
Nine Month Anniversary (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) (Score:2)
Interesting that group survives its report (Score:2)
Am I missing something, or is this fairly unique? Most if not all such ad hoc fact finding groups at this level end up getting disbanded immediately after their report is finished. In fact, there is often great political pressure (in the form of initial budget or time constraints) to wind these up. Any follow-through is left to politicians or the subject organization, often without further review. Here, the group appar
"Push Their Changes"...aka "Recorvery Costs" (Score:2)
Great. What that really means is that some government spud will get involved, force changes, then my bill will go up with a new line item for "recovery costs". Looks like electric will have something in common with broadband [DSL] after all.
Thank $DEITY for GPRS (Score:3, Interesting)
US Immigration wouldn't let us get off the plane with the ladder trucks so they flew us across to Minneapolis a few hours later. After another few hours I finally got through immigration only to find that my luggage had been lost!
Not the best day ever, and the airline refused to either put us up or refund the $120 it cost me to grab one of the last hotel rooms in a local Holiday Inn.
Finally got to Dallas the next morning, got my luggage delivered to Oklahoma the next day (on a Sunday too - woo yay!), and received a nice "thank god you got here ok" present from my fiance which more than made up for the previous day ;-)
Well.. (Score:2)
Just gonna have to wait for the answer, aren't you?
Re:Didn't they (Score:2)
(OT)Re:Didn't they (Score:2)
Re:Didn't they (Score:2)
Yep. Becuase nothing is truely pre-destined. Everything that happens is the effect of some other cause. And, the more we understand the causes, the easier it becomes to keep the bad effects from happening...
you mean FORESIGHT, hindsight is always 20:20 (Score:2)
Re:you mean FORESIGHT, hindsight is always 20:20 (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Everything is preventable... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Standard lefty excuses coming out (Score:2)
Wouldn't make a difference - the problem was with the grid & its control systems, not with the generation. True, though, we SHOULD be using more wind power.
> "We need more regulation to fix this"
True. Deregulation was the worst thing to happen to the power industry. (I'm currently working IN the industry, btw.)
> "We're all dependant on each other"
Mostly. And that's not the best thing as power grids go - remember the California problem a few years back? G