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Microsoft

MS Hotmail Offline For Hours 443

chalker writes "According to CNN, and others, the Hotmail online e-mail service, operated by Microsoft, was down for most of the working day on Friday, affecting 'a significant portion of MS customers.' People are also having trouble accessing products such as the MSN Messenger instant messaging program. The company said it was an internal problem rather than an attack on its system and that it hoped to have service restored by 5:30 p.m. PST. As of 8:15 PM EST, Hotmail appears to be online again."
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MS Hotmail Offline For Hours

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  • by Cliffy03 ( 663924 ) <thecanadiangeek@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:44AM (#8560123)
    I thought they had blocked other programs again. Trillian and Gaim couldn't connect, but I installed MSN 6.1 and got right back on.
  • Redundancy anyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by OriginalSpaceMan ( 695146 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:48AM (#8560132)
    That article didn't go into much detail. I don't know what kind of system MS uses to run Hotmail, MSN and other services, but where's the multiple location clustered redundant load balancing system? My only guess is that someone at MS really messed up their own DNS systems, which of course would take it all "down" (by name at least). Does anyone know what actually happened?
  • Re:Dammit (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ender81b ( 520454 ) <wdinger@@@gmail...com> on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:50AM (#8560141) Homepage Journal
    You think that's bad? Try working at an isp and have people yelling at you and blaming you for breaking hotmail ;).

    ahh the joys of the internet.
  • by Betabug ( 58015 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:52AM (#8560149) Homepage

    Judging fromt the description that people had problems logging in, but that things work fine once logged in, and OTOH that Messenger had problems too, I would conclude that the problem is with their Passport infrastructure.

  • by Quizo69 ( 659678 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:53AM (#8560151) Homepage
    Figures. Here I am at a client's house fixing his computer so the cable modem works again, and I'm trying to show him how good Proxomitron works with getting rid of all the Hotmail surrounding ads, and I can't even connect. He didn't believe me when I said that it was probably Hotmail being down....

    Perhaps if it was some routine maintenance on Microsoft's part, they could forewarn people about it? It affects a lot of people's lives, whether free or not.
  • Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mstefanus ( 705346 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:54AM (#8560157)
    Actually many... Nerds use Hotmail for junk email accounts, like when they want to download something that needs registering first but don't want to receive the newsletter junks.
  • by Vancorps ( 746090 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @04:58AM (#8560164)
    My first guess since it effected multiple services and not just hotmail that it was a database issue, they may have blocked permission on the cluster on accident. Such a central problem can't really be caused by faulty software, just faulty configuration.

    I think someone was implementing a new backup scheme and decided it would be a good idea to dismount the store, move it over to another cluster.


    Course it looks like if people managed to get on their service was fine, so maybe they screwed up some passwords. Time will tell this story
  • Re:News for nerds? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:02AM (#8560176)
    I use it. They offer the best service as far as I can tell but I hate that they go down as often as they do. The one feature that keeps me with hotmail is the shell extension that tells you when you have mail. I have to use windows at work, I need web mail and I don't want to go check to see if I've got mail.
  • by addbo ( 165128 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:02AM (#8560178)
    I seriously didn't know Hotmail was down. I had users asking me why it was down and I thought it may have been our connection. It's actually of some relief to know it was a technical problem on Microsoft's end... and I would not have found out about it if not for Slashdot...

    So it's not necessarily a "petty" thing as a "nice to know" thing... like all other slashdot stories... you are within your rights to refrain from reading the articles... no need to get grouchy if an article doesn't suit your taste. JUST DON'T READ IT! =P

    Addbo
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:06AM (#8560191)
    i just got hung up on, and that was approximatly the same time on friday. i was trying to get an activation code for win xp when i was disconnected from them all together. i waited a while thinking that like all good cutomer support they would call me right back because i was hung up on, but waited half an hour and called them to try to talk to the guy i was dealing with, and they told me that they were having serious internal problems. im not sure how it works, but i think MS might use some kind of internal VOIP system because there was a delay in speech with th guy i was talking to as well, but hotmail and their tech support both went down around the same time as i was informed of "major internal problems." so something big happened.
  • by tepples ( 727027 ) <tepples.gmail@com> on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:07AM (#8560194) Homepage Journal

    That must have been one heck of an internal problem for it to knock out Hotmail AND MSN Messenger.

    For example, the problem might have lain in the Passport login servers. Single sign-on is a single point of failure.

  • Re:News for nerds? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by addbo ( 165128 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:08AM (#8560200)
    It is a great account for your junk mail! Then again so is Yahoo... but hotmail was the first I believe =)

    It is also my first email account (got it in 96) and so now people can still contact me after I've moved around the world.

    When a service like Hotmail and MSN go down for a few hours it affects ALOT (millions) of people... nerd included... why shouldn't it be on the frontpage? I know I was interested enough to click on the articles (though I agree they are sparse on details)

    Addbo
  • Re:News for nerds? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:11AM (#8560207)
    NEW POLL

    What web based email account do you use.

    Hotmail
    Yahoo
    Lycos
    Mailinator
    Telepathy
    CowboyNeal's

  • by Vancorps ( 746090 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:15AM (#8560219)
    Single sign-on has a flaw. The only legitimate flaw is that you have one username and password to crack, sometimes some challenge reponse questions too if you are into the Novell and Sun directory services.

    At any rate, just because its one password in no way means you can't have a cluster of 5000 servers all storing and accepting transactions for it. I'd hardly call passport servers in Russia, the U.S., Germany, England, China, Japan etc... a single point of failure.

    Normally I'd just assume you were referring to the password issue but right now that has nothing to do with this story so I'll just leave my assumptions out this.
  • What I liked most... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:15AM (#8560221)
    What I found most alarming was that MS did
    not know if they were under attack or not.
    They first thought some hacker took down their
    system. Then they realized it was some "internal"
    fsck-up.

    How can a service of that magnitude with M$
    money backing it not realize it was/was not
    under attack?

    Even if there were some coincidental attack
    going on at the same time (it's probably
    a constant issue with big sites), it's
    shocking that they could not properly analyze
    the attack to see if it could explain something
    like, oh, say, the ENTIRE FSCKING SERVICE
    being unavailable.

    In a way, this tells us plenty about the
    quality of service. Not only does it go
    down from time to time, but the company
    running it is not able to accurately
    communicate what the problem is.
  • by myownkidney ( 761203 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:27AM (#8560254) Homepage
    I neither use Hotmail nor messenger. I have my own webmail service, and I use ICQ through trillian because it supports encryption.

    That said, both these services have millions of users. And from what I hear from these users, both services go down pretty frequently, messenger especially so.

    Apparently things have gotten worse since MSN 6 came into being. I have seen MSN 6, and it has the words "lame ass" written all over it.

    If what I hear is true, it takes 2 minutes to login to MSN 6. Quite a lot of your IMs are bounced back.

  • by SmoothTom ( 455688 ) <Tomas@TiJiL.org> on Sunday March 14, 2004 @05:29AM (#8560260) Homepage
    ... trying to get to the Hotmail FAQ at 0125 on Sunday the 14th, I'm not at all convinced "all is well" (or ever was).

    Luckily I don't use Hotmail (or any other Microsoft product).

    bScreen = 'True'; var searchtextsize="21"; var bSkinny = (screen.width<=800); if (bScreen == 'True') searchtextsize=(bSkinny)? 19:25; var cu, cb, br, INI_Encoded, INI, H_APP, H_APP_Encoded, ITSFile, Filter, BrandID; var v1, v2, v3, v4, bShowSearch,t_contactus,Survey ; cu='http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/dasp/ua_inf o.asp?pg=ar_eform&_lang=EN'; Survey=''; cb=''; INI_Encoded = 'MSN_Hotmail_PIMv9_FAQ.ini'; INI='MSN_Hotmail_PIMv9_FAQ.ini'; H_APP_Encoded = 'MSN+Hotmail'; H_APP = 'MSN Hotmail'; ITSFile = 'msn%5Fhotmail%5Fpimv9%5FFAQ%2Eits51'; Filter = ''; BrandID = ''; H_VER = '2.6'; bITFind = 'True'; t_contactus="Contact us" v1 = 'http://www.hotmail.msn.com'; v2 = '?&_lang=EN&country=US'; v3 = ''; v4 = 'DH_FREE'; var sTMT = 'MSN_Hotmail_PIMv9_FAQ'; ; bShowSearch = true; NoMax = '0'; var LEVELMAX = 10; var levelNodes = new Array(LEVELMAX); var activeNode, activeIdx = 0, bActiveSet, activeLevel = 0; var XMLTOCLoaded = false; var sHTTP_REFERER = 'http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/dasp/ua_info.a sp?&_lang=EN&country=US'; function CULink(ExtURL) { if (navigator.appName.indexOf("TV") >= 0) { if(ExtURL.indexOf("http") == -1) ExtURL = "http://" + ExtURL; parent.location.href = ExtURL; } else { window.open(ExtURL,'_helpext'); } }

    Microsoft VBScript runtime error '800a01f4'

    Variable is undefined: 'agent_isSafari'

    E:\WEBROOT\PRODUCTION\HELP\CON TENT\EN_US\..\!shared\frameset.inc/searchfooter.in c, line 27
  • Re:Predictable (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rastakid ( 648791 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @06:11AM (#8560350) Homepage Journal
    Why am I not surprised Microsoft claims its an internal problem?

    Actually, it would make more sense when Microsoft would claim it was an attack. Internal problems can be blaimed on the company (bad software design, bad system administration, etc.), external attacks can't, only for a lack of security or something like that. But in most cases, a company gets away quite well with an external attack.
  • by niittyniemi ( 740307 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @06:20AM (#8560367) Homepage


    From the MS case study [microsoft.com] on converting Hotmail from FreeBSD to 2K:

    > Changing the operating system on each server should have
    > zero impact on day-to-day operations.

    No impact whatsoever....if you ignore uptimes :)

    > Under FreeBSD, bugs and memory leaks would often go
    > undetected because of the lack of tools. With Windows 2000
    > and IIS 5, the tools exist to optimize the performance and
    > truly understand exactly what the code is doing at all
    > times.

    Crikey, handy they've got all those tools to help them out (soooo unlike FreeBSD with all it's bug leaks). Looks like it's saved their asses this time round...
    </sarcasm>

    Microsoft: Where do you want go today?

    Customer: I want to take a rock solid service that has true customer value and turn it into a spam ridden, bug infested hole that doesn't work half the time and customers hate.

    Microsoft: Consider it done!

  • by jwgoerlich ( 661687 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @06:33AM (#8560396) Homepage Journal

    My only guess is that someone at MS really messed up their own DNS systems, which of course would take it all "down" (by name at least). Does anyone know what actually happened?

    It looked like an infrastructure issue, to me. Possibly a downed router (or three?). I could tracert Hotmail from a couple remote sites, but not others. It looked like a dead route.

  • by ender81b ( 520454 ) <wdinger@@@gmail...com> on Sunday March 14, 2004 @06:53AM (#8560445) Homepage Journal
    It's odd this outage lasted for so many hours. Hotmail is spread across multiple clusters at multiple geographic locations. Presumably, so is passport (which is what was br0xx0red). You would *think* MS would keep a complete backup of the last known passport config somewhere, like 1 day - 1 week, etc.

    In theory it should only take a matter of minutes to rollback the entire thing... and you would've thought they'd test it before deploying any changes.

    Sounds like somebody screwed the pooch on this one.
  • by Yakman ( 22964 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @08:07AM (#8560603) Homepage Journal
    Being a cluster you would think they'd be upgrading them one server at a time, and they'd pretty quickly notice that the first server they tried to upgrade wasn't working. They could just take that one server out of the cluster until it was fixed.

    They proabably rolled a change out to all servers via SMS (not the text messaging protocol) and couldn't back it out :)
  • Re:Yeah, I'll say... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by JudicatorX ( 455442 ) <rernst@shAAAadow ... inus threevowels> on Sunday March 14, 2004 @09:05AM (#8560723) Homepage Journal
    Yes.. That terrible, evil company.. They were so wrong to give you a free email service. How dare they..

    It's not free. It's ad-supported, meant to make them money. It's MS' aim to draw people in so they can suck money from them. If they want to make money, they could provide a better service, namely one that people are willing to use. What would you say if the provider of your primary email account, something you've come to rely upon, was bought out by $MULTINATIONAL_CORP and you started getting 5 megs of spam email a day?

  • by Bishop ( 4500 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @10:20AM (#8560907)
    Paid for services, such as MSDN subscriptions, were down as well. The real news is not that Hotmail was down, but that all Passport based services were having problems. MS has been trying hard to sell Passport as a "single sign on solution." This indicent does not help that marketing effort. This is not the first time that Passport has been out. In the past the passport domain expired and was rescued by a very nice person who registered the domain on a weekend, reinstating the service.
  • by ZWithaPGGB ( 608529 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @12:26PM (#8561598)
    Yes, "Customers" were affected. There are plenty of people who pay for extra storage on Hotmail. Also, Windows Messenger is a part of XP, which people pay for, so it is a service that they PAID for.
    Last, but by no means least, anyone who uses other Passport authenticated services, like MSDN (Costs over $2K a year, I have it) was unable to connect. Considering that many of those services are the very ones that people need to prep for deployment of XP SP2, which I would wager a lot of organizations were planning on testing and/or deploying this weekend, having the tech resources needed to properly configure and evaluate that deployment off-line presents a major problem.
    Your assertion that no-one of consequence, or who paid for a service, was harmed is complete BS. It simply indicates that you have no idea what else Passport authenticates, or maybe even how Hotmail works.
  • by Pieroxy ( 222434 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @01:01PM (#8561771) Homepage
    So last week java.sun.com was down for three full days and nothing (even though I submitted a story). Now hotmail goes down for 4 hours we get a story on the front page. Wow.
  • by f0rt0r ( 636600 ) on Sunday March 14, 2004 @02:01PM (#8562202)
    When Microsoft made the deal with IBM, they didn't even have an OS, but they quickly bought an OS someone else had created for $50,000 and obviously had it ready in time. Once again showing Microsoft's innovation isn't with software but rather with business deals.

UNIX is hot. It's more than hot. It's steaming. It's quicksilver lightning with a laserbeam kicker. -- Michael Jay Tucker

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