Microsoft Develops XP 'Light' for Thailand 551
GoatJuggler writes with this Bangkok Post report that "Microsoft announced plans to develop a discounted, slightly crippled version of Windows XP for Thailand."
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Microsoft Develops XP 'Light' for Thailand
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why do it? (Score:5, Insightful)
because of the complexity of an operating system, reducing functionality was not a simple process and every modification would have to be thoroughly tested.
So why would it make sense to spend more money in making these reductions? Why not just give the standard package? I'm missing something here.
Unfortunately, this will probably sell decently (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Jeez, this article's pretty scant on details. (Score:5, Insightful)
1500 baht...? (Score:3, Insightful)
so exactly what will be the "reduced functionality"?
i'd bet it will have something to do with hardware compatibility.
Re:Thailand first, the world second (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Fighting Piracy For Dummies (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thailand first, the world second (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Jeez, this article's pretty scant on details. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:why do it? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Thats great... (Score:4, Insightful)
Seriously, as a ardent Linux user and open source zealot, even I admit that Windows XP is a bit more user friendly for beginners. But removing more functionality than already has been removed in XP Home? Gnome and KDE will be more than a match for this setup, I'm sure.
As if Thailand cares anyway, who's going to pay $30 for Windows XP Neutered when you can go down to your local "store" and buy Windows 2003 Advanced Datacenter Server for a dollar?
Re:Addiction (Score:3, Insightful)
It would be more shrewd for them to sell a 20 pack that is subdivided into 4 mini-packs. That way a group of friends could all pitch in to by 20 cigarettes, and then they could divvy out the mini-packs of 5.
Dan East
Re:Thats great... (Score:5, Insightful)
Bingo... Microsoft is lowering the price for Windows XP to this country because if they didn't, their government would start subsidizing Linux-based PCs. This is Microsoft's last chance to make sure that the standard PC there still runs Windows.
Re:Fighting Piracy For Dummies (Score:4, Insightful)
the current prices for them is like if microsoft was asking 3000$ for copy of windows to run on something that you already paid your arm, leg, lungs, both kidneys and liver for.
.
Still pushing "innovation" (Score:1, Insightful)
Mr McBean added that the first release would essentially be XP Home edition with some reduced functionality, although for future versions there would be a chance of additional or incremental development and innovation.
So they are going to release XP Home and then add innovations to reduce the functionality to that of a "lite" version.
May be MS should buy the Thai people XPlite from www.litepc.com instead of spending money on additional innovation.
This is the definition of monopoly (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Microsoft Plan (Score:4, Insightful)
Perhaps its Embedded XP (Score:3, Insightful)
Plus the 'embedded' product line...
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, when you shoot for funny, and get insightful, thats ironic.
When you shoot for insightful, and get modded as funny, THAT is sad.
Market segmentation and price descrimination (Score:5, Insightful)
A little more on teh story (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft is reportedly developing a "light" version of Windows XP to be aimed at developing markets. This is the word from the Bangkok Post (irritatingly long registration required), which is reporting that the origin of the project is Thailand's own program to aggressively seed homes with computers.
Thailand's People's PC project, initiated last year by the ICT Ministry, has been the genesis of a new operating system from Microsoft Corporation that is now under development, according to Microsoft Thailand Managing Director Andrew McBean. The new OS, as yet unnamed, but a new "light" addition to the Windows XP "family", will be released in limited, selected markets later this year and will offer reduced functionality when compared with Windows XP Professional and Home editions, he said.
Microsoft has to date been very protective of its pricing model, which aims at more or less parallel prices for its products across the globe. When People's PC was originally announced, Microsoft said that it would offer XP Home and Office Basic at an extremely reduced price, signaling the start of the company's willingness to adjust pricing on national levels. Now, however, it looks like the company is going to develop yet another consumer OS version. Why would the company spend additional resources developing an even-less functional version of Windows XP Home when they could simply just sell Windows XP Home at a reduced rate? The most likely explanation is piracy. In developing countries, piracy is a major problem, and the Redmond Giant is likely trying to avoid mass distribution of its fully functional OS by seeding the populace with a less functional, and probably less attractive OS.
Mr McBean added that the first release would essentially be XP Home edition with some reduced functionality, although for future versions there would be a chance of additional or incremental development and innovation. But he also pointed out that because of the complexity of an operating system, reducing functionality was not a simple process and every modification would have to be thoroughly tested.
A release date is not known for certain, but Microsoft Thailand is saying that this will happen, and not before SP2 for XP is released. It also remains unclear just where this product will be available. It's highly unlikely that it will every be available in the West. Rather, this project seems squarely aimed at recent efforts in Asia to build Linux-based solutions for emerging markets.
Re:But Wait... (Score:5, Insightful)
This is about MS making more $$ (Score:2, Insightful)
1) Customer buys XP-demo
2) Customer "forced" to upgrade to XP-home/pro at a later date
3) Profit!
Before you know it, Dell/HP/etc will be shipping only XP-demo, and end-suckers^Wusers will have to post-purchase the "real" thing.
Re:Fighting Piracy For Dummies (Score:5, Insightful)
The point of this effort isn't to stop piracy, and Microsoft knows it won't. The problem is that the Thai government is setting up a program for the development of a very cheap computer, and they want to distribute a legitimate operating system with it. Since they weren't going to pay Microsoft's asking price, there was the potential of a very large number of computers being distributed without a Microsoft operating system. And even assuming most of the buyers replace the preinstalled OS (Linux, whatever) with a pirated copy of Windows, it still would have the potential of creating a substantial, new base of computer users not running Windows. This plan heads off that possibility. Whether they replace it with a pirated full version of XP or not, anyone who buys this thing is going to be using Windows, and that is what matters to Microsoft.
Depends on what's missing (Score:5, Insightful)
In other words, it's perfectly possible that it will be both "anti-competitive" AND crippled.
"Slightly Crippled" (Score:0, Insightful)
Last time I installed Windows XP from a CD, here's what I noticed.
1) It didn't have a compiler.
2) It had no INTENDED remote access services such as FTPD or SSHD.
3) I was unable to manipulate graphics.
4) I was unable to use my Network Card.
5) I was unable to optimally use my graphics card.
6) I was unable to optimally use any piece of hardware that didn't have Microsoft written on it.
7) It takes for ever to do anything in Notepad as compared to Vi.
8) I had practically no system logging to speak of.
9) I was unable to use multiple desktops.
10) I was unable to entirely change the appearance of the GUI.
11) I was unable to simply download much of the software needed to render Windows somewhat useful. Even though Gimp and OpenOffice run on Windows and GVIM, refer to number 4.
12) I kept getting "Access Denied" or something along the lines of insufficient permissions even though I believe I gave myself full rights over the system. On Windows 2000 this can be seen even if you are logged in as Administrator.
13) I had to reboot fifteen times, and four hours later while windowsupdate.microsoft.com told me I needed nearly a GB of updates. Many of which could only be installed one at a time.
14) Then another two hours and multiple reboots becuase of installing device drivers (refer to number 6) and then updating those from the old drivers that were on old disgarded discs in the closet.
15) I had next to nothing in regards to software and production....
Compared to what you get with the average Linux ISO image.... Windows, out of the box, is a pathetic quadriplegic whose wheel chair is missing a wheel.
Then, Microsoft goes and strips so much "functionality" from Windows XP to publicly admit it's "crippled"? What more can you take from it?
Re:Thats great... (Score:4, Insightful)
When they have to preload and bundle OSes with their hardware, a higher overhead would hurt them real bad. Which is why, they'd rather prefer something cheaper, even though it may not be the best alternative.
If you ask, how does it make a difference to MS? Can't they sell the same thing cheaper? Then the answer would be no, simply because they'd be pressurized by other vendors in the same way.
So the solution is to come up with an excuse for a price cut, and thats precisely what they're doing.
It does not matter whether or not its got features added/removed. What is crucial is the price cut, and how they've come up with it. And its a means of attracting more OEM vendors.
Re:This is the definition of monopoly (Score:3, Insightful)
(This doesn't change the fact that Microsoft often engages in unethical business practices. Just not in this case, at least until them have the whole country locked in...)
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:3, Insightful)
MSFT must be scared (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Some other examples (Score:2, Insightful)
But hey, companies doing whatever the hell they want is all ok with you.
I think that companies doing whatever they want is foolish and we put limits on companies all the time. Environmental, ethical, social... You can only emit this much waste. You aren't allowed to sexually harass your employees. You have to hire people regardless of the color of their skin. We collectively choose to put limits on companies all the time. I just pointed out that we have -- and accept -- price differences all the time as a natural and basic consequence of a free market. So basic, in fact, to the workings of capitalism that we often ignore it. It shows up in cola prices and downtown zone bus fares. In fact, this same force is what drives powerful engines called "commodoties markets". In these black boxes, wealth can be invested, accumulate and magically GROW -- from nothing! It is pretty amazing stuff, really, when you start to understand it. But I digress. What I am trying to say is that that basic principle beind it all is this: You have something that you can make and someone else wants to buy -- you let the buyer and seller set their own price. You don't have a third party interfere.
You're worried that YOU will somehow get screwed? Don't get too worried about this. The market is very intelligent. Consumers in a higher priced market don't let themselves get "screwed over" for long. Soon people learn how to re-import those overpriced textbooks from the UK. They find a way around the barrier and lower their price in their market too. The overall price eventually finds an equilibrium. (Which it never actually does because other goods are always trying to dislodge it from its position in the market.)
if companies were forced to either pick a global market or a local market, and were forced to stick to it
What an arbitrary rule! Why? The market will always find a way around RULES if the market wants to. More to the point, though, you should really start to admit to yourself that there are a lot of people out there who mean it when they say that this is a global economy and they believe that this will continue to happen. Industry by industry, economy by economy, until the whole world catches up. Small electronic goods in Japan in the 60s and 70s. Semiconductors in South Korea in the 80s and 90s. Programming in India today. Huge American industries get outsourced to other countries, American workers -- eventually -- find other things to do. And the country that rides the boom is able to modernize in a very short span of time. Everyone benefits in the end. But of course if you happen to be in those sectors that get hit when they are getting it... it is painful to you. But let's not be intellectually dishonest and paint the globalization crowd as pure evil. Let's be honest enough to admit that they have a pretty strong case on their hands. It happens to suck for us because we are in IT and most of our jobs are going to end up overseas. But they aren't doing it to be evil. They are doing it because they want to see the whole world lifted up, just like you, and it just so happens that theirs is the only proven method to modernize the world...
But hey, your rant sounded really heart-felt and I bet it helps you get the ladies over beers on a Friday night. Keep it up, man!
Re:But Wait... (Score:3, Insightful)
I use both, so I'm not exactly trying to sell Linux, but your point is still valid for those that are selling it.
At this stage, I'm more likely to switch back to Mac instead of Linux on the desktop, at least for another year or two. Only use Linux for servers, but still using Windows for the desktop because I love "new, exciting, open and free" but I love photoshop, quark and pc games, and I am more concerned with ease of use and security than freedom on the desktop. For servers, its security and freedom that concern me. Obviously Windows is no longer fitting the bill for either, for my purposes.
I am not a Linux zealot, I'm a Linux realist. I know its almost but not quite ready for primetime on the desktop, and at the cusp of being the best thing out there for servers. Eventually, Linux will be the dominant operating system on the desktop, or at least some unix like system based on Linux/BSD. It just makes sense on so many levels, particularly in security and portability for programmers (once they get the api thing worked out on the desktop.) Windows will still be there, and perhaps as a desktop ontop of a BSD kernel, like Mac. I mean, they ARE licensing Unix technology from SCO, aren't they
I will say this, I'm far from an expert, but have run several Linux servers for many years and tend to run services on seperate boxes for security and redundency. Linux is at least as easy as Windows server for what I do, just different. Considering I can ssh in and start or stop any services quickly, upgrade, update, install, uninstall, and actually see all the processes that are currently running on a single screen, I would say its much easier to maintain.
EVERYONE uses this strategy (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Senior rates and student rates. They are poorer and can't afford things like park admission. This is a way to get them to pay up.
2. Coupons. Lower income people will now shop at your store. Rich people generally have better things to do with their time than clip coupons.
Microsoft is not special, and you don't need to be a monopoly to 'exploit' this strategy.
Re:Fighting Piracy For Dummies (Score:2, Insightful)
If this is the 7 story high by 3 block wide shopping mall in Bangkok, then yes. I must admit to being a bit overwelmed my first couple of days in Thialand when I was there a couple of years ago, so I hope you will forgive me not rememebering all the names of all the places I went.
Anyway, what I remember as being most suprizing aside from the shire magnitude of the place, was the number of shops selling dvd and software for 50-100 Baht(1 to 2 USD). And these were not shady back ally shops, they were well established otherwise respectable buisnesses. It was either paradise or a nightmare depending on whether you are a content producer of consumer.
While, I agree that piracy is probably not the sole reason for MS to be putting out windows Lite, I has certianlly got to be a factor.
JFMILLER
Re:But Wait... (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't know. I'm using Windows XP Professional and there's honestly nothing in it I would've paid over $50 for to upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional. I got it for $20 through a campus licensing program, but if I had to buy it on my own at full price I would've just stuck with Windows 2000. I can't imagine how crippled the XP Home version is if XP Pro is this bland. I would've expected developer tools like Visual Studio and Office 2003 Professional to be bundled in with XP Professional for the outrageous price they charge for it normally (over $200!!!). I can get basically the same thing, sans the support for Windows games, by installing Debian GNU/Linux w/OpenOffice.
This is probably to avoid "dumping" (Score:4, Insightful)
If I were in charge of global marketing for Microsoft, I would create a country-specific version for certain target markets (like Thailand). It would be cosmetically "dumbed down" and priced to sell. Of course, any of the features that are not included in the base install can probably be downloaded from microsoft.com in about 30 seconds. You can't be accused of dumping if the product in question isn't sold anywhere else.
Re:why do it? (Score:2, Insightful)
Someone else suggested they "cripple" it by making it Thai only. I think that's a good idea. But hey, the worse Windows is there the better chance they'll switch to Linux instead.
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:2, Insightful)
No, when you shoot for funny, and get insightful, thats ironic.
In practice, the only difference between Insightful and Funny is that Insightful rewards the poster with karma and Funny doesn't.
Re:But Wait... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Unfortunately, this will probably sell decently (Score:3, Insightful)
While Thai-language Linux may be relatively well developed, all of the international versions of Windows are quite well done and have been for a while now. While features alone may allow for a user to switch to Linux in English-speaking countries, localization completeness is high on the list in other countries.
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:"Slightly Crippled" (Score:3, Insightful)
2) Again, home user oriented and I believe server editions have these capabilities. I could be wrong.
3) Not sure exactly what you mean here. Image editing? Graphics programming? Buy/download a program to do it.
4) Get a better network card. Seriously. XP has great hardware support.
5) Vendors usually provide *their* own tools to toy with *their* hardware to make it "optimal".
6) I am unable to optimally understand what your problem is. My hardware all runs fine and I don't have Microsoft written all over any of it. Actually, my ms gamepad is my worst piece of hardware.
7) Would you like them to bundle Word?
8) Home users have enough that when an error happens it can get reported and if you view those error dumps, they actually have a lot of info in them. There are various logs to view in the Computer Management area of Administrative Tools.
9) Granted.
10) What is it with wanting complete customization but also wanting standards compliance? Ok, so you can't customize every single bit of it, but you can customize a reasonable amount. An amount that say....a home user would like? Power users can find those tools easily enough.
11) You're right. You can't get it all for free. Bummer. Some people need to live.
12) It's their problem you can't admin your machine?
13) I don't know about that. Get SP1 and that takes care of a lot and it's not a gig. It may be large but not that large.
14) Why would you install drivers and then....update from old drivers???
15) So....you had a system that you could then customize to your own working environment? Sounds ok to me.
"Then, Microsoft goes and strips so much "functionality" from Windows XP to publicly admit it's "crippled"?"
Well, I think "crippled" is the term everyone else is using. "Functionally insuperior" might have better marketing spin. Or "function impaired". Or maybe "functionally disabled". Or maybe "Windows ME".
Woop woop -- Danger, danger, losing mindspace... (Score:2, Insightful)
True --
But consider! MS is going for complete computing noobs here. Looking at the mailing lists, Linux can be befuddling for power users. It took me my own good time to figure some things out, no thanks to spotty documentation.
And therein lies the rub -- MS may suck donkey balls in a lot of ways, but they do a good job of holding noob hands with decent documentation. Unless and until some Linux distro can do the same, and still for that same magic price (and in Thai, Laotian, Swahili, what have you), I think this move by MS presents a genuine threat of incursion into undeveloped mental real estate.
Re:why do it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Because if the standard package was much cheaper in Thailand there'd be massive pressure from other customers to get the same price, and lots of grey-market trade. Somehow crippling it, maybe making only Thai system menus avaiable (currently I believe all language versions use the same code and most of the same files), for instance, would make this a different product and a different price justifiable.
Re:1500 baht doesn't buy much... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is done all the time. Take, for instance, the Quadro line of cards by nVidia. You are buying an intentionally crippled card everytime you buy a GeforceFX. Same hardware, sans a couple switched transistors and a slightly modified BIOS. In other words, they made the Quadro, and then crippled it to be the GeForce.
It's certainly not a tactic that only Microsoft employs. Indeed, most firms that sell both to the "individual consumer" and businesses do it. Singling out Microsoft as an evil corporation because they're employing intelligent (and in this case, non-monopolistic) business practices is stupid.
Basic economics. Literally, they taught it at the very lowest level economics course at my school.
-Erwos
Re:Depends on what's missing (Score:3, Insightful)
However, given that the "reduced functionality" is supposed to be so M$ can "afford" to offer XP at a lower price, it may be that this reflects the cost of royalties for the various kitchen sinks they've shoveled in sideways (like the CD burning applet, which I gather is actually just one little part of Roxio5 -- and I'm sure Roxio charged M$ to use it).
Hopefully once it comes out, some kindly Thai will report back, so we can cease speculating.
[Shovelling kitchen sinks. What a horrible image!]
Re:Market segmentation and price descrimination (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:2, Insightful)
The kind of stuff that 90% of "normal" consumers don't really use anyway, so that they can justify a new price level for people who can't (or don't want to) afford home edition.
And of course, if they decide not to release this stripped down (and lower-priced) version in the wealthier countries (US:P), then they'll have the best of both markets -- most people here aren't going to bother going through customs and everything for a cheaper copy of windows, and most people in Thailand and wherever will have a version of windows available at a price they can better afford.
Hopefully they won't decide to strip ICF
Re:"Slightly Crippled" (Score:3, Insightful)
"get one here", oh and "get one there", oh look over there, there's a cuckoo singing in the tree. Look, I had a person a Linux CD, and another a Windows XP CD... Don't give me any of this "get one here" garbage, I'm talking about what you get when you install Windows XP.
of course it didn't, that's what Windows Server 2003 is for.
Why should I have to buy Windows Server 2003? We weren't talking about Windows Server 2003, so why did you even mention it? Unless, you're talking about the singing cuckoo bird again.
You can do basic graphics manipulation using Paint
"basic"!? What is your definition of "basic"? Don't be so naive, PhotoShop is a decent product and I would purchase it alongside Gimp if they had a port to Linux. I buy software that's worth buying, the problem is, Microsoft Paint doesn't do much of anything and is a joke. If viewing a file and screwing it up with a pencil mark is your idea of "basic" graphics editing you've got some perspective issues to deal with.
What kind of bizarre obscure hardware where you using? Windows XP properly detects alot more hardware then linux does currently.
Now, in reference to you implying I'm a troll, what we have here is the pot calling the prospective kettle black. I have an AMD motherboard with the nForce 2 chipset on it. Windows XP, out of the box, does not have a clue how to use the onboard NIC interface. but if you care, I can list alot of other hardware aswell.
Windows is so successful is that you CAN'T entirely change the GUI
This is bull, as there are plenty of examples demonstrating what your claiming is irrelevant to an Operating Systems prosperity.
Microsoft prevents you from killing critical system processes! What a shock! Oh no
Irony, see I saw it. To bad your sense of humor is but one way as you apparently haven't seen my own facetiousness.
Bottom line pal, if I'm root or administrator or whatever the computer better damn well do what I tell it to do and I don't care for a half-wit confirmation box. Do it, do it now. If I make a mistake, that's my ass. A lot of people write better with a pen, becuase they know that mistakes are less fogiven than with a pencil.
Windows XP is a desktop OS for every day users, not for supergeeks.
Here, I concur. So, why did you even argue? Windows XP out of the box has nowhere near the capabilities on many technologies as the typical RedHat CD or Mandrake CD.
It's of little use to argue here anyway... I have to remember this is
Re:Market segmentation and price descrimination (Score:3, Insightful)
the clothing industry?
the music industry?
the software industry as a whole?
or any number of other industries?
It isn't. Granted, there's some protectionism in there (clothing industry) so as to allow for such inflation, but that's largely how it sits. All the money floats to the top, too.
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:1, Insightful)
Same for lots of things... an egg in an expensive restaraunt doesn't cost much more than an egg in a cheap one.
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Addiction (Score:1, Insightful)
I believe you're referring to the 10 packs being introduced at the moment in Germany, also commonly known as "childrens' packs". Those were (allegedly) introduced to capture the market of those who cannot readily afford a full 20 pack. (Ie. teens, get them hooked on cigarettes while they're young, so it's less likely they'll be able to overcome the addiction later in their life.)
The reason for 19/20 cigarettes per pack is the vending machines -- you cannot refit all the vending machines to charge 3.20EUR/pack, but you can simply put one or two cigarettes less in one pack.
Regards, Felix. (smoking kreteks myself, can't stand regular cigarettes.)
Re:You mean you can cripple it more? (Score:3, Insightful)
Differentiating your market is necessary to sell commodity products (which video cards are). As demonstrated by the major sporting goods manufacturers (nike, adidas,
That microsoft is forced to differentiate its market like this is good news. It means they're losing their monopoly power. A monopoly can always sell everything at the higher price. Clearly, they can't anymore, not everywhere at least. So three cheers to the downfall of the evil empire.
Re:Microsoft Plan - Pirates as Marketers... (Score:1, Insightful)
2. The pirates copy it like mad.
3. People use the pirate copy eventually upgrade to the full version of Windows XP, stolen or purchased - it doesn't matter.
4. Linux development, distribution, and adoption is slowed down - or crushed.
5. Now Microsoft is using Pirates as Marketers to crush the Linux competition, and protect the main product line. (i.e. free labor)
6. Keep selling more of the full WinXP to those who want to / are forced to - buy it.
7. Profit ! ! !
It follows the same MS logic as:
Paying fines for monopoly behavior by dumping tons of free product on schools and children... attempting to crush Apple and Linux by sealing the minds of children into the Windows Matrix forever and ever...
Go ahead and mod this up