Stallman Goes to India 586
SureshD writes "The Hindu is reporting on a 40 minute long meeting between Richard Stallman and the Indian President - Dr APJ Abdul Kalam. After the interview, RMS said that the President was 'receptive' to his views that development of software should be seen as a political and social issue and not just from the technological point of view. Interestingly, the article mentions that the President had prepared for the meeting by downloading and reading Stallman's biography (Free as in Freedom) from the Internet."
what sealed the deal.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:5, Funny)
"Holy cow!"
"Cows aren't holy, Mike."
"In India they are."
"Well, they're wrong."
What does this have to do with software, you ask? Uh... Well... Christians try to bind everyone to Christianity and Microsoft tries to bind everyone to Windows. Yeah. Think about it.
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:4, Interesting)
They why do you assume they exist.
(Well, they actually do exist. I attribute this to a christian upbringing which rather permanently warped them.)
I've also met missionary Buddists. They, also, are rare. And tend to be of peculiar splinter sects.
Muslims are required by their religion to convert you. For athiests it's an optional extra. There's nothing inherent in atheism that says you must go around converting people. But if you were raised christian or muslim, you're likely to feel the need to do it anyway.
OTOH, not all christians are missionary. There are even rather large groups that don't feel the compulsion (as a group) to require everyone to believe the same way that they do. But it is implicit in the standard theology. (If you believe that you should "love" everyone [in some sense of the term], and you believe that everyone who doesn't believe as you believe will be tortured forever [by a god that loves them], then it is only natural to want to help both the god and the person to remove the cognitive dissonance by causing them to believe as you believe. So missionary activity is normal to normal christian theology.)
But this same reasoning doesn't apply to the other religions. The Muslims must cause you to convert because the Koran tells them to. The Buddists have an implicit need to "save" you, but there are many turns of the wheel in which to accomplish the end. No need to hurry. (There's lots of disagreement about the details of this last bit, but that's the general flavor.)
And Pagans? Well, the followers of the Sun god cults tend to believe that theirs is the only true way, but the other groups tend to consider them a bit strange. The animists don't even really have a concept that corresponds to "convert". There are, we could call them Momotheists who try to get everyone to accept The Goddess as a substitue for The Father, but that's probably due to a monotheistic upbringing. There's nothing obviously inherrent in the religion to demand universal belief. The polytheists are usually willing to consider that any new god might be one of the real ones. The pantheists already accept the new god, without quibble. Though neither group will necessarily accept the god on his own terms. Gods PR agents are no more reliable than any othe PR agents.
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I cannot accept that any denomination of Christianity that actually believes this as truly Christian. The arrogance of such a belief is a sin in itself. Man doesn't judge man, God does.
RMS is very confused (Score:3, Funny)
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:2, Funny)
Don't hide behind the AC, we know it is you...
Restrictive? (Score:2)
If you call "This is mine, but you can use it for free to do anything you want. If you agree to share, it can be yours too." a restrictive license.
Re:Restrictive? (Score:5, Insightful)
In that case you have the following possibilities:
- You are just plain lazy. You have the resources to write or have written a large chunk of code and could have written that last line/function as well.
Having to obey the license is just the price for your lazieness.
- The GPL'd code is just brilliant and it would have cost you a lot to replicate it. In that case that line/function ceases to be just a line or just a function but becomes an important part of your program. Having to obey the license is the price for saving you a lot of work.
There simply is no excuse for using someone elses work and not respecting the license they chose.
If you don't like the license don't use the code.
Jeroen
Re:Restrictive? (Score:5, Insightful)
Most software isn't free as in beer. You have a choice of how to pay for it. Will you pay in money or in source code? That's the proprietary / GPL difference.
it's a bit annoying considering everyone else is getting it for nothing.
They aren't. They're paying in source code. You can pay in source code too, if you like. Or you can just not use the GPL library.
I really don't understand your problem. You seem to think that because you can read the source code of a GPL library, and download it and link it to your program without paying a penny, that you should somehow have the "right" to do whatever you like with it.
Here's a clue: the GPL is not taking away your freedom to use that library - it is giving you the freedom to use that library, if you agree not to take that freedom away from anyone else.
Maybe you should be thanking the authors for making it possible for those who can't afford huge license fees to write software, instead of cursing them for preventing you from charging huge license fees for their software.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:4, Insightful)
quoeth the OP: "I'm not saying sharing stuff is bad, I just want it to be fair" and "'Use a single GPL'd function and have to give away my entire source base' is another matter."
The AC in response hits the nail on the head: Here's a clue: the GPL is not taking away your freedom to use that library - it is giving you the freedom to use that library, if you agree not to take that freedom away from anyone else.
The single GPL function or library - that the OP wants to include in the large, hugely valuable pre-existing codebase - is copyrighted. It belongs to somebody else, until it passes into the public domain.
Other people use it for a price: they pay by agreeing to share any further modifications of it. So GPL software is rarely free as in beer. But that's not the point.
Again the OP "In addition, it's not a zero sum game, so if I 'steal' some of your GPL'd code, you still have it, so you have no grounds to bitch about me making it proprietary."
Again the parent AC's response is right on target: "You seem to think that because you can read the source code of a GPL library, and download it and link it to your program without paying a penny, that you should somehow have the "right" to do whatever you like with it."
Re:Restrictive? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it is restrictive. "Share and share alike" is all very well. "Use a single GPL'd function and have to give away my entire source base" is another matter.
In capitalism, the seller sets the price and the buyer decides whether it's worth it. What are you, some kind of kooky communist? Don't use the GPL'd stuff if you don't want to pay for it, don't use Visual Studio if you don't want to pay for it.
In addition, it's not a zero sum game, so if I "steal" some of your GPL'd code, you still have it, so you have no grounds to bitch about me making it proprietary.
If you make it proprietary, I don't have the legal right to it anymore; nor does anyone else. That's the sense of "having it" that's important. Idea monopolies artificially raise the price of information.
The GPL has its good points, but to say it's not restrictive is to ignore reality.
You warty troll. The GPL has but one restriction- don't use GPL'd software in the creation of proprietary software. This restriction has special network effects: it reduces the freedom of any one party from reducing the freedom of everyone else. The GPL only restricts restrictions, that's a net gain for "unrestricted" software.
Re:Restrictive? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a common misconception. Look, just because someone dresses like a hippy doesn't mean they're a communist. Stallman is the ultimate capitalist, he thinks the market should set the price of ideas without the government creating monopolies in that space. You tell me what part of Stallman's philosophy (rather than his appearance) is anything but capitalist and we'll have a discussion.
Eh? What? You still have your original code. If I make changes to that code
That's not what you originally said, you said if you steal the code, not if you make modifications to it.
I'm more than happy to send you a patch. As for the rest of my code, you never had any right to that, and you still don't, so you haven't lost anything.
I've lost the right to write the same code, especially if you've patented your enhancements. But even if you're just copyrighting your code, you can probably draw a free software developer into a legal battle she can not afford even if she's right.
Furthermore, your proprietary innovation reduces the incentive to create free enhancements. If authors do have the right to control their works (i.e., if idea monopolies are legitimate), then you should respect my terms. I personally do not want to see someone profit off of my free work without giving back equally.
Imagine I bequeath a free library to the public with the condition that it can never sell books, only lend them. You build a bookstore annex on my public library and make deals with the book industry so that you'll get enough copies of all the new releases to sell, but the library can't buy enough to meet lending demand. You've done something very ugly. You've unfairly (although not illegally) capitalized on the goodwill that the bookstore created by making it harder for the free book community to thrive.
You may not agree with me that this would be a bad thing. But if I build that library with my own labor you ought to respect my wishes if you expect me to respect yours.
People who say the GPL is restrictive seem to imagine that there's only one person in the world, and it's always themselves. "The GPL unfairly restricts my ability to profit off of your work." Waaah.
Re:Restrictive? (Score:3, Insightful)
Open Source is a coherent and constistent philosophy of software development. Open Source holds to the goal of creating good software, with code sharing being the best mean towards that goal.
Since this article is about Richard Stallman, it is probably also appropriate to respond with the answer of the Free Software idealogy. Free Software is also a coherent and consistent philosophy - not of software development, but of freedom of informat
Re:Restrictive? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the case, though, that in some fields, secrecy now means a living wage. I don't claim to be a guru, but I think my knowledge is worth something. I have no particular desire to go back to cutting curtain material, packing melons in boxes or any of that shit. I am valuable, and I provide my services to other people in exchange for money, which buys me food, clothing, housing, and the rest. Perhaps, just perhaps, I don't deserve
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:3, Funny)
Re:what sealed the deal.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think he does. Corperatists have long enjoyed exploiting Americans since early on, but for good or ill, unions and labor laws have made it hard to compete in the current climate. Naturally, they outsource to nations that don't have these kinds of laws.
On the one hand, the corperatist has his eye on cheap labor. It's one of the principle foundations of capitalism, and technically, there's nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, they lobby relentlessly with law makers to ensure that new-comers will be at a significant disadvantage by making the entry-level cost of competing too high for even the brightest would-be entreprenuer.
Of course, what does this have to do with "free" software? Well, it's obvious that many corperations have a vested interest in keeping individuals from competing at their level, and the fact of the matter is, you can create very professional and profitable systems using the tools found under the GPL.
Proprietary software is something that corperatists are comfortable with. They can control it through tiered licensing schemes, and even control how a person may use the software, and to what extent. This allows them to control the growth of any would-be competition, and even prune it if necessary. The average "Merkin" is none-the-wiser of their schemes, and it all gets wrapped up in nice, neat, legal redtape.
Enter The "Free as in Freedom" software.
Corperatists can't control it. Therefore it is difficult to impossible to control their competition. So they whine to the legislators they need more patent laws, copyright laws, and generally speaking- more of every law out there to keep those pesky would-be entreprenuers out of the "Free Market".
So if you love freedom, and you want to be free to pursue your goals in life, what is the best way to stop them? Go outside the US. Make sure that the rest of the world has these tools and that they become standard issue before their governments become poluted with corperatistic protectionist laws. With other nations having such an advantage, the American people might just wake up and smell the bullshit that these exploitationists have been shoveling. Some of them might actually send off a letter to their congress saying, "If we live in such a FREE country, why can't we have these tools as well? Hell, even those damned commies have better software than we do!"
And so the repeal of corperatist legislation may begin, and a FREE MARKET can take its place where people may buy and sell goods without the overbearing corperation run beauracracy that we have today.
And don't you damned corperatists go calling me a libral. It's not communism or socialism. It's called a Free Market and Free (as in Freedom) software will give rise to newer and better Free Markets. Corperations controlling the legislative body of government better deserve the moniker of communism since currently they control production, labor, and distribution, and, largely, the social and cultural life and thought of the people. In spite of all their hand-waving about being American capitalists, they are the very essence of un-American communisism.
If we are ever to truly be free, we must stand as individuals and stop licking the hand of our corperate puppetmasters.
To control or be controlled. Which is it?
OK, I had the guts to take this "Karma Swan-Dive". Let's hope it's not in vain.
Full text (Score:3, Informative)
By Sandeep Dikshit
NEW DELHI, JAN. 31. The President, A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, last Thursday played host to two radically divergent poles of the global software industry.
The first to meet the President was Richard Stallman, the leading light of the free and open source software (FOSS) movement.
Ironically, the people waiting in the Presidential anteroom for the interaction to end were people from Microsoft.
Dr. Stallman has devoted his life to countering Microsoft's policy of selling software that cannot be changed because its code is kept a secret. It also cannot be shared because of licensing restrictions.
Talking to The Hindu, Dr. Stallman said the President was "receptive'' to his views that development of software should be seen as a political and social issue and not just from the technological point of view.
At a meeting that lasted 40 minutes, they discussed the need to give people an alternative way to use computers by popularising open source software (OSS).
"The President said this was a beautiful concept,'' said Dr. Stallman. Mr. Kalam had prepared for the meeting by downloading Dr. Stallman's biography from the Internet which in keeping with the FOSS movement guru's philosophy is available free of cost.
The two also went over several common interests, including the use of software in space programming. For the first time, the Mars Rovers vehicle is using OSS and it is reported to be functioning well.
They also reminisced on the development work on several software programmes in which both had taken interest.
Besides explaining the political philosophy of FOSS movement, Dr. Stallman said he also spoke to the President about the real intention behind Microsoft's plan to spread the use of computers in schools which was "akin to the colonial system of recruiting the local elite to help keep others in line.''
"I hope my discussion had some influence on the President and he will be able to resist being used that way.''
Dr. Stallman gave up a cushy teaching job in a prestigious American university after he perceived that "computer colonisation'' was spreading rapidly.
"There were only two options. Either I stopped using computers or I help everybody to escape. I chose the latter,'' he said.
He explained the concept behind FOSS. The word "free'' did not mean giving the software gratis.
Rather, it denoted the freedom to control the computer because the seller of FOSS also provided the source code or the manner in which a particular software was constructed.
"This way you can see how it works, you can change it and also share the software.''
By taking to FOSS, India would be able to cut down on the outflow of foreign exchange which was going to become very large in the near future.
So far, Microsoft licences were not being forced on individuals, but in the coming days, proprietary software companies would make it impossible for individuals to make copies clandestinely.
"The flood (outflow of foreign exchange) will then become a torrent,'' he said. Free software, in contrast, would encourage local information technology developers to innovate and adapt the software constantly. The result will be that money will circulate in the local economy, he said.
Copyright 2000 - 2003 The Hindu
Re:Full text (Score:4, Interesting)
However a support of India for Free Softwareon the international level may be very helpful in the defense against Software patents. There is still no *real US-movement* (join this list [ffii.org]:-)) but an Indian committment similar to Brazil could be beneficial on the internatioanl level.
Also think of the fact that WSISII in Tunis will distribute UN money for IT- projects.
Re:Full text (Score:5, Funny)
Next the karma whores are going to start repeating the Slashdot headline and text "in case it ever gets slashdotted."
FULL TEXT OF SLASHDOT POSTING:
Stallman Goes to India
Posted by michael on Monday February 02, @02:33AM
from the exploring-outsourcing-next-version-of-gcc dept.
SureshD writes "The Hindu is reporting on a 40 minute long meeting between Richard Stallman and the Indian President - Dr APJ Abdul Kalam. After the interview, RMS said that the President was 'receptive' to his views that development of software should be seen as a political and social issue and not just from the technological point of view. Interestingly, the article mentions that the President had prepared for the meeting by downloading and reading Stallman's biography (Free as in Freedom) from the Internet."
( Read More... | 62 of 75 comments )
can I have my +5 informative now?
Re:Full text (Score:2, Insightful)
I couldn't agree more, I like free as in freedom as much as the next guy, and like to see this freedom extended all the way down do respecting other peoples copyright: I allways wondered why slashdot allowed other peoples copyright to be so blatantly abused.
Re:Full text (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Sandeep Dikshit?? (Score:3, Informative)
Wow... (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, great... (Score:3, Funny)
This is pricing strategy. (Score:5, Interesting)
I think one must look in terms of governmental actions on OSS in such a strategic light. Kalam, a figurehead king, may be a true believer, but insofar as his actions on software goes, he's being used as a pawn to gain better licensing terms from microsoft.
Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:5, Interesting)
A lot of govt. organizations in India today use OSS. For every area of the govt that uses Microsoft software, there is atleast one other counterpart which uses OSS.
In fact, the last time I checked, a lot of states were having budget deficits. Guess what is it that they cut down on?
I know for a fact that several nationalized banks as well as other govt agencies have switched to OSS.
You think MS would get scared merely by the "threat" of OpenSource? The reason they are really scared is because there are parts of the nation that use OSS, and it works.
Now THAT would explain why Microsoft is opening so many branches in India -- primarily because they would have the excuse of providing jobs, and to feed those jobs they would need the govts money for software.
Do not think MS would be doing this unless there is a benefit for them.
Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:5, Insightful)
The good thing about it is the fact that Microsoft will have to change its attitude in questions of interoperability and support of open standards. In that sense, the pressure of OSS software really will change the way proprietory software enterprises will address their customers' needs.
TCPA Pricing Goes Further (Score:5, Insightful)
Otherwise they wouldn't have been forced to drastically lower the price of their offering.
That Microsoft is even able to change the price of their product so easily is a consequence of their monopoly control of the market.
Recall Thailand's Linux laptop project motivated MS to cut prices there. Needless to say, those kinds of prices were not available to buyers of Windows and Office in North America, Europe and Japan.
Probably one of the most overlooked aspects Microsoft's so-called Trusted Computing initiative (most people in this forum are afraid The Man will spy on them, erase their MP3's and make their old Word documents unreadable unless they keep current their Office subscription payments) is that by targeting contracts with defined individuals and machines, the commodity nature of its products is lessened (the software CD becomes non-transferrable)and it becomes even more feasible to discriminate in pricing than it is now.
Expect this development.
Having essentially conquered the market for desktop software Microsoft has to look at other alternatives for growth, which is what their shareholders demand.
But it is hard for Microsoft to grow now! Entering new markets is difficult for them because their actions will be scrutinized for unfair leveraging of their monopoly position. The remaining alternative is to adjust pricing to maximize revenue; get from each user what they can.
Thus, they might well charge a few rupees for their OS in India and hundreds of dollars for the same product in a large corporate environment in the United States.
With TCPA Windows, there will be no danger of the Indian licensee re-selling their copy of Windows to someone in the United States. Not only will such resale be "illegal", but it will become technically much less feasible than it is now.
Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:5, Interesting)
To say that the President did this as a bargaining strategy with Microsoft is an insult. In fact, during a prior meeting with Mr.Gates, the press were full of pictures of Gates and Dr. Kalam strolling in the gardens. Dr. Kalam took special pains to mention that the discussions duringg that meeting 'turned difficult' since Mr.Gates wasn't seeing eye-to-eye with India's vision for computing.
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Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:4, Interesting)
Secondly, he was not the first choice of the BJP, in fact the then vice-president was a hard-core BJP man, but was rejected by Mr.Chandrababu Naidu, who propped up Dr.Kalam's candidature. Incidentally, Mr.Naidu is Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh, where Microsoft has it's biggest Indian-operations center - they wrote the SFU and the command shell with
To sum up, the religious background or acadmeic record of most people in India has little relevance in a multi-culturous environment.
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Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:4, Interesting)
One other person says that Dr.Kalam is a Jesuit Alumni and now you say he's a Muslim - I say, what does it matter? Software has no religion, neither does democracy - so when the head of a democratic setup makes a decision on the type of software that would be most suited for his country, his religion should have zero-relevance.
Being educated at a Jesuit school (which he may or may not have--I don't know) doesn't necessarily make one a Jesuit, a Catholic, or even a Christian. Especially in India and Africa, the educated elite even today often come from religious schools set up by colonial European powers. IIRC, Abdul Kalam is from Tamil Nadu, and the Jesuits did have signifigant influence in the South. Incidentally, he's not the "Head of a democratic" setup--the Indian president is simply not that powerful--and that was my prime point--he's much more of a figurehead than anything else.
Re:This is pricing strategy. (Score:2, Insightful)
To say that the President did this as a bargaining strategy with Microsoft is an insult.
You are attacking a straw-man argument. The person you are responding to didn't say that. He said that the president is probably a true believer, but the government as a whole are using that fact to drive down MS prices.
Braindrain (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Braindrain (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Braindrain (Score:2)
BTW, a billion?!? I didn't know all Indians are hackers.
Re:Braindrain (Score:3, Funny)
The Internet has conclusively disproven it.
And, this is not a troll but based on my experience, a billion Indians with telephones have yet to produce an intelligible tech support call.
But then again, the same goes for Texans/Irish/Germans/...
Was Richard in need of a job? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Was Richard in need of a job? (Score:2)
Mr. Richard! You're the man I'm really after. Reading your brilliant articles on free and open-source software, I plopped this RedHot CD into my Dell Dimension and guess what? it wrote into the CD drive's firmware and the damn thing won't work again...
Richard: Pssst... don't quote me, but I'll tell you what to do - just turn over that system back to Dell, get your money back, and call me on my home line... I'll get you a brand=new hand-configured Linux system right away...
They all do that. (Score:2, Insightful)
HOw is that interesting? In case you don't know, every politician does that or is prepared by advisors before plunging into any meeting. Or is that interesting because he usually does not do that? Maybe he needs someone like Condoleezza Rice to chew and spit the stuff to him, so he can better use his time....
Re:They all do that. (Score:5, Insightful)
How is that interesting? In case you don't know, every politician does that or is prepared by advisors before plunging into any meeting. Or is that interesting because he usually does not do that? Maybe he needs someone like Condoleezza Rice to chew and spit the stuff to him, so he can better use his time....
How many times has Mr. Stallman met Mr. Bush? How much time did the latter spend to prepare for the meeting? What is the outlook of the US Govt. towards Open Source movement?
I am assuming you are in teh US, since you seem to be so ignorant about the importance of what the President of India did.
President not head of government (Score:4, Interesting)
That is not to say Kalam isn't important, just that he mostly just gives speeches, not makes decisions.
Re:President not head of government (Score:5, Informative)
While launching the IIIT in Pune, the President made a pointed reference to his meeting with Mr. Gates, and made some brilliant points in exhorting the local IT community to further the cause of Free and Open Source software.
India is indeed fortunate to have such an eminently qualified person at the apex seat, since IT is synonymous with national security these days....
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Re:Jesuit Alumni (Score:5, Insightful)
His belonging to one particular strand at one particular point in time does not have any bearing to his thought-process at all. Most Indian political leaders have often advocated tolerance and respect to diversity, and believe that true freedom implies shunning mono-cultures.
In short, moving from a particular brand of proprietary code (Microsoft) to a particular model of Linux (say GNU) isn't good for any country let alone India. Dr.Kalam seems to have understood this fact more clearly than most other heads - be they political, religious or ideological.
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Re:President not head of government (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:President not head of government (Score:2, Insightful)
Given that benevolent dictatorship is one of the best ways to run a country in the short term (in the medium term it has a depressing tendancy to turn into either a non-benevolent dictato
Re:President not head of government (Score:3, Interesting)
Republic is where the citizens vote on who will make laws. Democracy is where the citizens vote on the laws themselves. Most states, cities, and counties in the US are a hybrid of democracy and republic, but our Federal government is pure republic.
It's really very simple. In a republic, the people vote on who will represent them in government, and theoretically those people who are elected are going to make laws in accordance with the will of the citizens. The citizens themselves don't get to pick and
Maybe.. (Score:4, Funny)
Power Shift (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Power Shift (Score:2)
I read an article the other day (can't find it with Google at the moment) about how high-tech immigration TO India has really been picking up lately.
With all of the outsourcing, Indian IT companies are experiencing skills shortages in some specialised areas. Even though the salaries are not that high after the exchange rate, compared to the cost of living, foreign IT workers live high on the hog.
Now let me see if I can find th
Re:Power Shift (Score:5, Informative)
The U.S. still imports way more jobs than it imports, and India's tech is booming based solely on the fact that it is low cost. Try reading some alternative viewpoints [townhall.com] on the outsourcing subject.
Japan has all the cutting edge electronics and techonologies
And those Japanese companies also create a lot of jobs in the U.S., and the Japanese economy isn't doing so hot. Your point?
China is destined to be the next super power
With no economic freedom and the vast majority of it's citizens living in horrid poverty, I doubt it.
Korea is trying to get nukes
NORTH Korea already has them.
The USA has mad cow disease, a puppet for a president, a huge debt, a slow economy and we're spending billions more on rebuilding a country that we destroyed while looking for weapons that didn't exist.
Slow economy? I'm seeing growth right now, what are you talking about? It was slow a year ago, times are changing... mad cow disease gets a big "so what" from me, it's more paranoia than reality, it does more damage to the beef industry than the general population. And a puppet for a President? Watch this "puppet" obliterate John Kerry in the next election.
It's really lame his editorializing was so lacking in any substance, and yet modded up as insightful.
This is insightful? Get real. (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not going to refute this post point by point, if only because anyone able to read a newspaper should be able to do so easily.
I shall, however, make the following suggestions to anyone who actually believes a word of the parent post:
1. Get the hell away from Slashdot and go get some news.
2. After that, go study some economics. In particular, you may wish to bone up on the fall of the Japanese economy.
3. Get
Hope Stallman is not too late (Score:5, Insightful)
Gates' view towards india is simple: Get the 15% of developers to use MS, and that'll provide the basis for MS.
Interestingly, unlike in the rest of asia, software piracy is never an issue with MS although software piracy is rampant...
India used to do lots of Unix (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Hope Stallman is not too late (Score:2, Insightful)
Instead of giving India a basis for Indian software without strings attatched...
Freedom? Beer? (Score:3, Insightful)
I wasn't aware that this was part of the philosophy.
Re:Freedom? Beer? (Score:3, Insightful)
The free trade in software is an innate consequence of the GPL and Stallman knows this damned well and the basic functionality that the GPL strives for is that people should be allowed to simply hand a copy of software to a friend freely and without fear of legal consequence.
So yes, the free availability is perfectly in keeping with Stallman's philosophy.
KFG
Any music? (Score:3, Funny)
In any event, great to see open source has reached this level. Won't be long before managers have to justify their platform decisions again.
Predident has a history of Linux support (Score:5, Informative)
The Indian President is tech-savvy and has on earlier occasions tried to promote Linux. He was really a rocket scientist before he was appointed the President.
In May 2003, he gave a speech in which he said "said it is 'unfortunate' that proprietary software - such as Windows - is so popular and has called for broader adoption of open source products." More details here - ZDNet UK - News - Indian President adds salt to MS wounds [zdnet.co.uk]
From the article, notes on a conversation with Bill Gates:
POI's website (Score:5, Informative)
Also a bachelor like India's executive head,the Prime Minister.
Re:POI's website (Score:4, Informative)
Re:POI's website (Score:3, Interesting)
Interesting use of contextual example (Score:5, Interesting)
Besides explaining the political philosophy of FOSS movement, Dr. Stallman said he also spoke to the President about the real intention behind Microsoft's plan to spread the use of computers in schools which was "akin to the colonial system of recruiting the local elite to help keep others in line.''
Nothing like digging up the ghosts of the past to help sell an idea! It seemed a smart analogy to me.
Perhaps someone should speak to the congress about Free Software in these terms - "Free software is like allowing your colony/company the independence to rule as it likes, instead of all your money being shipped to an uncaring vendor/government far away from the day-to-day concerns of your operation yet supposedly providing you relevant services to the work at hand."
Excellent timing. (Score:4, Interesting)
All I have to say is (Score:5, Funny)
Re:All I have to say is (Score:3, Funny)
Free as in Freedom, or free as in beer? (Score:3, Interesting)
There is free as in free to do things without interference, and free as in getting something for nothing.
They're not the same thing.
Synopsis (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Synopsis (Score:2, Insightful)
Pay the man (Score:4, Insightful)
What is the *source* of the "RMS" controversy? (Score:5, Interesting)
For some reason, Richard Stallman is demonized in the US as some eccentric loony. Yet the rest of the world actually holds him in very high regard. I have had the fortune of listening to him speak on the issue of software patents and not only was he articulate but he was able to appeal to a large audience made up of people from all walks of life.
Even if you disagree with specific positions that RMS might take, you have to give the guy credit for standing his ground. To me the GPL is one of the cornerstones of the free software movement and its cultural and social implications will reverberate for generations.
Re:What is the *source* of the "RMS" controversy? (Score:5, Insightful)
He is fairly eccentric. I've met him twice and he's... uhh... he could do with a visit from the Queer Eye TV show.
However I suspect the real reason that he's considered a "loony" in the USA is because he doesn't bow to the almighty dollar. I'm not trolling. Americans seem overly concerned about money. Notice that one of the first things an American asks after learning about free software is "how will programmers get paid?" No thoughts about how it can help less fortunate countries, or less fortunate districts within America. No thoughts about how sharing software would lead to advancements in software because programmers will be freed up to work on new and exciting things. No thoughts about advancing science or technology for the benefit of mankind. Not even thinking that maybe these hobbyists write free software because they want to! An American's primary cause for concern is "where's the personal financial gain?"
I think this is because USA punishes people without money. If you don't make lots of money you live on the streets. There is no socialism. No "safety net" if you lose your job. It's shameful for an American to be without money. Success is tied with being rich. Poor people are "losers". That makes it hard for an American to get past the "no cost" aspect of Free Software and start to understand the freedom aspects.
I'm not saying money is unimportant. But RMS sees a balance between money and sharing. Between proprietary interests and the public interest. He tries to communicate that software is not just about technology and "innovation". It's also about political and social improvement. America rewards financial success, not social improvement, and I think that's really sad.
NB: And I'm not saying that Americans only think about money, or that no other culture has similar disdain for slackabouts, or that no other culture pursues financial success as a means of evaluating worth. I'm just saying that it's more exaggerated in Americans. That's just my ignorant opinion (I've never lived in America) but I suspect my ignorant opinion is not unique and not far off the mark.
Re:What is the *source* of the "RMS" controversy? (Score:5, Insightful)
I get what you are saying, but as an American, I feel the need to clarify your point.
Americans have a strong drive to succeed. We have a drive to compete with ourselves. It's the basis of what we call the "American Dream" (to become strong and independent). As a society, we embrace the ideal of constant self-improvement. We strive for one goal: Self-Sustenance.
It's not that we look down on people who are poor. Almost every American you ask will agree that a person isn't less of a person for being poorer than another. No, our real issue is with people who cannot live in a reasonably (note I did not say fully) self-sustaining manner. We do look down on people who
We firmly stand by our conviction that if you can become more self-sustaining, then you should.
So you see, it isn't money which drives us. Money is just one way of many to gain a measure of self-sustenance. It's the desire to minimize our external dependencies. You can be dirt-poor in America, but grow your own food and manage your own needs and we will only admire you. Likewise, you can be filthy-rich in America but constantly seek government grants and the such ans we will despise you. This has it's own ancillary set of problems, but they are different from those that we would have if money were our obsession.
I'm not making a judgement here as to whether that's better or worse than what you claimed, but rather just clarifying for you the real pathos of the American Dream.
A few things about India (Score:5, Interesting)
Communism is not a bad word here. In fact there are a couple of states which have had communist governments for much of their existence. Naturally this contributes to linux's popularity. Now don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is that the idea of sharing appeals to communists.
Our president is a cool guy. As someone already pointed out, the president is not a political figure in India. But Kalam is a respected person and gives a lot of speeches and many people listen to him etc.
Linux usage in India is definitely rather high. The obvious reason is that there are more programmers ==> more nerds etc. But its far from the only reason. Even though unauthorized copying (I won't use the p-word) is very prevalent, those buying a branded PC will still have to pay for Windows. This is a big factor in the cost conscious Indian market. So in the last 8 months, the number of OEMs pre-loading linux has exploded. Today half the PC ads I see in the paper are MS-free! I can also feel the change at the grassroots level -- neighbors, tech support etc.
The future looks bright.
Re:A few things about India (Score:3, Interesting)
It depends on the ethos there. Over in the UK and the US very few companies (as in software houses) create OSS. A lot of people do work on OSS in their spare time, and of course companies like RedHat use OSS but the vast majority of third-party software is closed-source. So if India is even slightly freer in their thinking than here then they will probably contribute more to OSS.
Surname (Score:3, Funny)
By Sandeep Dikshit
I would almost say a this is a troll article if it wasn't so positive
Rus
Re:Surname (Score:2, Funny)
Dikshit is a pretty common Indian surname.. Just for fun, try to find out what 'Rus' means in hindi.
Re:Surname (Score:2, Informative)
Well I can understand how a surname like Dikshit would sound strange to an American, but its a common surname in India and pronounced quite differently from what it might appear. Its not pronounced as Dick Shit but rather as Deekshit where the 'd' and 't' are soft (The 'd' is pronounced like the word "thee" as in the old English thou) so it would be like "thee ks
India on the ball (Score:5, Interesting)
India puts a good deal of emphasis on producing engineers. Surprise -- India is improving its lot at a stunning rate.
Plenty of things are wrong with India, but we could take a lesson from it as well.
Heriditary heads of government (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps they should both go down the european route of letting the "first family" have a ceremonial role (the Bushes and the Kennedys could share the duties in the USA) and letting commoners be elected to the executive jobs.
Re:What nonsense (Score:3, Insightful)
The US president is elected through democratic elections, although there are some who argue that the process is too much vested in special interests, the rich, and is fraught with corruption.
Oh come on now. Sure it's not *really* hereditary, but think about this. How many public offices were won by people with the last name of Kennedy who had no relation to JFK at all? I'd wager dozens. I believe this is even historically documented, but I forget the spe
Gates Bio Copyrighted (Score:2)
ls
stop calling them Indians! (Score:5, Funny)
Just a short little question (Score:3, Interesting)
Everyone seems so willing to make the argument other countries should not rely so much on foreign (American) software.
Wouldn't that mean the loss of more American tech jobs? Aren't those lines of thinking in conflict?
Or is it okay to lose tech jobs, as long as those jobs are Microsoft's, and somehow that won't affect other tech jobs.???
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
GNU/India (Score:4, Funny)
President moved from Windows to Linux (Score:4, Informative)
According to netcraft (http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.pr
Good work.
geez (Score:4, Funny)
Kalam, Stallman discuss open source software (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm pretty sure Stallman was talking about Free Software rather than Open Source Software....
Re:Outsource (Score:2, Funny)
The Artwork of Jin Wicked || A portrait of Richard Stallman [jinwicked.com]
Re:Outsource (Score:3, Insightful)
OTOH, you *can* sell your consulting services to foreign governments and build long term relationships with future economic powerhouses.
He's gotten much better the last few years (Score:3, Informative)
Re:That explains it! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Whew! Forty whole minutes, eh!? (Score:2)
You don't have to be obsessed with personalities, but being aware of what they are doing is essential to understanding what the hell is going on in the world.
Re:Whew! Forty whole minutes, eh!? (Score:3, Insightful)
And how many minutes have you had with the Indian president? Considering how busy the man is (as any president will be) I think it is an important sign of how well OSS is doing now. This is important news for a site which claims "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters".
The fac
Re:PhD? (Score:2, Informative)
In 2001 he received a second honorary doctorate, from the University of Glasgow
Free Software Business Strategy (Score:2)
I've been thinking about the question you raise for quite some time. Check out the Free Software Business Strategy Guide [freestrategy.info] and the paper Market Economics of Peer-to-Peer Networks and of the Software Industry [norbert.ch].