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'Matrix Revolutions' Opens Today 1691

Posted by timothy
from the wait-til-the-price-drops dept.
shelleymonster writes "The Matrix Revolutions was released worldwide at 9 AM EST today. With a running time of 2 hr. 9 min., I'm expecting the /. reviews to start pouring in around 11:30. Since critics are saying things like, "Matrix finale could put you back in a coma," and, "The final episode is a slam-bang, dreary mess," I'm curious to hear some real fans' reactions." Many readers have pointed to the BBC's review; they were not amused. Were you? Update: 11/05 17:17 GMT by T : Read on for one reader's (spoiler-free) first impression.
wickedweasel writes "Just came from one of the first showings of Matrix: Revolutions (Germany, don't know why, but it started 2:30 pm here) and came by to drop some comments (no spoilers). To cut it short: not even close to the first one, and honestly spoken way worse than the second one (which wasn't _that_ bad). The ones looking for cool action will hardly find any, neither will the ones who came for the story (like me) be satisfied. Only a few good scenes in and around Zion, some quite big plot holes and unfinished threads and, most important, an unsatisfying end, to say the least. I guess I'll be flamed for my opinion by the die-hard-fans, but hear this: I once considered myself one too until I saw this."
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'Matrix Revolutions' Opens Today

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  • by l810c (551591) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:14PM (#7397527)
    The Tomatometer [rottentomatoes.com] is currently at 38/100. In contrast, Matrix I was 86% and Reloaded was 73%.

    I though Reloaded was a huge drop off from the orignal and this one may be a huge disappointment. Too bad, because the orignal was one of the best SciFi movies in Years.

    The machines are attacking tomorrow, lets have a Rave.

    • by dr_dank (472072) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:21PM (#7397647) Homepage Journal
      Keep in mind that Rotten Tomatoes just takes the average. As more reviews are added, you'll have a better idea of the score.
      • by Overly Critical Guy (663429) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:02PM (#7398073)
        The reason Revolutions blows is because of the following:

        * None of the questions in Reloaded are answered. How does Neo really stop the Sentinels? How did Smith enter Bane? How did he get so powerful? It's all explained away with one or two sentences. We're just supposed to accept it because it's "symbolic" of something. Reloaded seemed to treat itself like a bridge to some sort of great explanation for everything in the third movie. Guess what? It never comes! What the fuck?

        * The focus is Zion. Instead of freeing the people of the Matrix, as the first one suggested, the sequels have been all about saving this dirty underground city we don't care about. What the hell happened to the people of the Matrix? It's like the movies don't even care.

        * No humanity in the characters and dialogue. The movies just don't enjoy themselves. The first one had a mixture of humor and joy and was just having fun with what it could do. That's why things like the lobby scene kicked so much ass. It was like, "We've smashed the barriers of physics, now lets see what we can do with it!" And you had the fun human moments like the discussion during breakfast, the Cipher character, and so on. Neo was just a normal computer programmer who discovered the world around him wasn't real. More importantly, the movie was FUN.

        Now, the sequels tried to change that story into a post-apocalyptic sci-fi epic about an iconic Christ figure who lives and dies. Which leads me to the next point...

        * Nobody is freed, Trinity and Neo die, and we're left with the same situation we had at the beginning of the first movie. We've invested our attention to these three movies all for nothing. It was pointless. Why even have Trinity live in Reloaded? She should have stayed dead. It would have been more interesting to see how Neo copes with being unable to save her last time.

        I'm completely disenchanted with the Wachowskis. These two guys were considered genius filmmakers after the first movie. The second one was tolerated because we assumed everything that was put in it was for a reason, but it turns out they just dropped the ball on what could have been the most groundbreaking science-fiction trilogy since Star Wars.

        At least there's Return of the King this December.
        • by DrZaius (6588) <gary.richardson+slashdot@gmail.com> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:22PM (#7398305) Homepage
          Then again, revolution implies an attempt at change and then ending up back at the start. Think 'revolve'.
        • by Souliosis (694279) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:40PM (#7398517)
          I'm sorry but I had no trouble understanding all the parts you say have no explaination: *Neo stopped the sentinels because, apparently, his powers are not limited to just the matrix, but are actually in the real world too. Smith entered Bane by somehow hijacking the hardline or something I guess, I just kind of look at it as he found a way to the subway station (what the hell was with making the portal between worlds a subway station anyway?) and then entered the real world. I'll agree that these two points are rather hard to accept, but it is a movie. *The people of the matrix are freed. The Architect said the machines agreed to free all humans who wish to be freed now that the humans and machines are going to coexist peacefully. This was kind of what the entire movie was about. *I thought the ending Smith battle was perhaps the coolest part of any of the movies as far as the 'lets enjoy breaking the laws of physics' goes, but this is all up to personal opinion. *As I said, everyone is freed. Neo didn't die... At least I don't think he did. The Oracle says they will see him again, although nothing is expanded on there. In my own opinion I enjoyed this movie much more than Reloaded, which was so much damn talking I thought it was a soap opera. And yes, I can't wait for Return of the King too!
          • by *weasel (174362) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @03:10PM (#7398868)
            science fiction fans are generally unreceptive to fantastical powers in the 'real' world. hence they are looking for the explanation.

            Similarly the Wachowskis know that the implication (Zion isn't in -reality-, but is instead another layer of simulation) isn't a popular theme amongst the broad audience - who coincidentally don't mind science fantasy (case in point: Star Wars).

            And if science fantasy was their goal with the matrix (which one would doubt given their attention to detail) they would clearly realize how poorly scientific explanations of fantastical elements work out (case in point: Midichlorians)

            In the end, it really was an ability best left undiscussed.

            smith copied himself onto bane, an unplugged character -then- uploaded himself through the hardline. putting himself in bane's shoes initially is the actual leap in science for scifi fans. how could Smith do that when in M1 it was established that agents could only jump into plugged-in people?

            the ending fight was just more kung fu. it was all style with only slight implication. I thought it was a bit excessive, but other than that i didn't have a particular problem with it.

            coexistence is indeed the point of the movie, i don't quite understand the people who complain about it. it's as if they didn't hear Neo's speech at the end of The Matrix. (where it was quite clear that he wasn't out to destroy all machines).

            However i agree with the poster that the sequels lost all attachment to the people -in- the matrix. of course, this is only a complaint because a bad introduction to Zion left most audience members not caring at all about it.

            I mean, it's not like people were really attached the plugged-in masses in M1 - what with nary a complaint about the innocent cops and soldiers killed in droves when subdual was entirely possible. (they had their own load program and they couldn't think to bring tear gas, microwave weapons, or rubber bullets?).

            Now i'm not saying that M1 should have been a buddhist exercise in peaceful application of force - most people probably wouldn't have liked that nearly as much. I'm just pointing out that critics are complaining 'what about the plugged in people' precisely because we care even -less- about Zion.

            It's more a complaint that Reloaded introduced us to Zion as a whole poorly, and then didn't follow up with even any decently developed characters in Zion to give the audience an attachment. For comparison: no one really cared about the mass of rebels on Hoth, but the audience was drawn in because they wanted to see the main characters get away. But most of the fight for Zion happens away from the characters who got decent development.

            And while we're drawing SW parallels - the Wachowskis should've killed off Morpheus if all he was going to do is sit there for the whole movie. It was only in later script revisions that Lucas killed off Obi Wan on the death star in A New Hope - after he realized that Kenobi didn't -do- anything to propel the movie once Leia was rescued.
            • by Molina the Bofh (99621) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @04:33PM (#7399777) Homepage
              At least there was no dumb awkward talking creature saying things like

              "Me wanna help protect Zion."
        • by MattW (97290) <matt@ender.com> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:46PM (#7398597) Homepage
          None of the questions in Reloaded are answered. How does Neo really stop the Sentinels? How did Smith enter Bane? How did he get so powerful? It's all explained away with one or two sentences. We're just supposed to accept it because it's "symbolic" of something. Reloaded seemed to treat itself like a bridge to some sort of great explanation for everything in the third movie. Guess what? It never comes! What the fuck?


          Neo stops the sentinels because he was enlightened by the process of becoming the One. He sees the Matrix as what it is -- an input/output stream communicating with the senses, and sees it logically instead of allowing his senses to interpret it. It's very Eastern - the idea that the world is not what you simply perceive.

          Smith enters Bane by essentially hacking his brain. Realize that Neo empowered smith by destroying him, just as Smith symmetrically empowered Neo by killing him. Neo was a martyr who's death allowed him to transcend the "living" in the Matrix and realize that it was all just input. Neo's slaying of Smith was unorthodox, and showed Smith that people exposed themselves by being part of the system. So Smith uses that knowledge, and his amalgam of knowledge about human biology and such, to hack Bane's brain. It is, on one level, just a machine. They mention brain scarring and cross-synaptic firing in Bane's brain scan -- essentially, Smith rewired him, and it was possible because Bane had his brain wide open jacked into the Matrix. If you can die in the real world because you think you're dead in the Matrix, can't you become Smith in the real world because you think you've become him in the Matrix? If you accept the premise of the linking of those two worlds in the first place, this is not really a stretch.

          How did he get powerful? Everyone has boundaries in the Matrix. Neo is enlightened by his virtual death and transcends his senses. It gives him the second sight in full strength. Likewise, Neo destroys Smith's boundaries to 'enter' him. Smith gains the ability to 'enter' others and take them over, becoming a virus. Notice that his Neo-like powers come chronologically after he absorbs the Oracle. This is not coincidence. He needed Neo's enlightenment in full, so he took it from the only person he could get it from. But where Neo earned it, Smith had to steal it, because that's all a virus can do, is absorb. It doesn't evolve or grow or change.

          Zion is the focus because its the free world; everything else is 'controlled', whether virtual or real.

          Nobody is freed, Trinity and Neo die, and we're left with the same situation we had at the beginning of the first movie. We've invested our attention to these three movies all for nothing. It was pointless. Why even have Trinity live in Reloaded? She should have stayed dead. It would have been more interesting to see how Neo copes with being unable to save her last time.

          Trinity isn't human when she says that dying was fine, but she should have been telling Neo how good it was instead of apologizing for dying, and thanks for the second chance to be real? I dunno, I thought that scene was a LOT more touching and a lot less fake than EITHER of the first two movies Trinity-saves-Neo or Neo-saves-Trinity scenes.

          • by Austerity Empowers (669817) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @04:13PM (#7399568)
            I haven't seen revolutions yet, but I had a guess at how it would end and at least at some level I was right (appearntly neo and trinity die). I agree with much of MattW's post, but I have another dimension that seems to be supported.

            I believe the architect scene from Reloaded is "the answer" to the questions that anyone has, even if it was an obnoxious scene that was probably shortened so they could fit in lots of action. The previous poster used eastern philosphy, but let's throw in some western and the concept of free will and "the soul".

            I see instead the matrix as a simulation and sort of a recession test of machine intelligence where each human is plugged in to get a wide sample. It is perfecting itself, by modelling us. It passes only when it achieves long term stability. If there is a "one" and if a zion is created, then it fails. The architect is one such program designed to compensate for failure. Analysis of the failure is done by systematic reduction of possibilities to a single point of failure, in this case, someone who continuously fails to accept the system. If it can construct a system that properly accounts for human intelligence in all cases, the computer has finished learning from us.

            How do you reverse engineer anything? There is only one method that does not rely on inside knowledge: you do a side by side comparison, feeding the same inputs and predicting the outputs. When the output of your created box, differs from the output of the original, you know you have a flaw and must investigate.

            The problem is identified as choice, free will, thinking outside the box, creativity. The computer can beat us or fight to a standoff in all cases but loses when we do something not expected, something that can't be concluded from the facts at hand. The matrix is a specific test suite designed to quantify this behavior, understand it, and adapt to it.

            Agent Smith is the embodiment of this effort, learning from Neo, trying to understand him. I believe he is the "mother" that the Architect referred to, not the oracle necessarily. The architect on the other hand is about order, organization and deduction, things that in general machine intelligence beats us silly on.

            All the stuff about smith enterring bane, neo enterring smith etc. is just an elaboration of this. Neo figured it out first, Smith learned and adapted and use this on Bane. Around and around they go. One point I believe is that ALL humans, zion or not, are still jacked in, thus smith can pull his stunt quite easily with, as MattW suggested his very accurate and detailed knowledge of human biology. Not so easily can he do it to Neo, who invented the trick.

            Eastern/western/etc. spiritualism are a core of the movies precisely because they are our current explanation or qualification of free will. They're not exact because we don't really know either, but they are somehow at the core of our intelligence. After all we're not particularly consistent and rational, things even lower life forms exhibit more reliably that we do, but our ability to come up with new ideas seemingly from thin air has no explanation and is quite valuable.

            The problem is that this is one hypothesis you could have produced from the first, much more entertaining and consistent movie. These last two movies I think are failing us because they are simultaneously trying to demystify and answer questions, while at the same time trying to keep the mysteriousness that defined the original. It's fundamentally flawed, but this is an example of squeezing the franchise for all it's worth.

        • by Frobozz0 (247160) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @04:47PM (#7399914)
          I think you got hooked on the last scene in the first movie and can't se past it-- as if the next 2 movies were somehow supposed to be focused around it. The plot evolves to become what it is.. More depth is unravelled as you go.

          Neo doesn't die.

          He is carried off into the machine world after he completes his quest. He is motionless after a battle, just like the second movie. Granted, Trinity is dead as dead can be. The Orcale and the last refugee give an homage to Neo with the sunset at the end, but that doesn't mean he's dead. The Oracle answers he guardian's question quite accurately: "no, I didn't see any of this... I had hope."

          Overall, this was a great movie. I have some questions that I want answered, but it did a good job answering most of them. For example, the Oracle and the Architect are cordial adversaries, and Agent Smith and Neo a ying/yang brothers, whose mother is the Oracle. The reason why the movie changes focus from the people in the Matrix to the peopel in Zion is clear to me. More insight as to WHY Neo was found is unravelled and you realize this is a fight between the architect and the oracle, which are representations of order and chaos as created by the machines.

          The movie is deep. Just because it changes direction does not mean that was not intended in the first place. It may take a turn or two that I disagree with, but overall it leaves me wanting one more movie... the one where the people are freed from the Matrix and Neo leads them to the promised land. Judging by the end of this
    • by Carewolf (581105) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:25PM (#7397686) Homepage
      I've just been to the premier. The movie is not bad, at least not the first hour of it, but please for your own sake leave the cinema before the last half hour. There were several times during the end of movie, when I was thinking: "Now it can't get any worse", but I was proven wrong.

      At a supposedly really tragic scene by the end of the movie, the scene dragged on for so long that the hardcore fans present started to laugh, and when it dragged on even further, to shout: "Just die for crist sake!". I am not sure if is supposed to look like that, the scene seemed to loop 3 or 4 times.

      I end it self doesnt make any real sense, or rather it makes less sense than making electricity from humans.
      • by Shalda (560388) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:58PM (#7398036) Homepage Journal
        The final two installments of the Matrix remind me of poi. Poi, for those of you not familiar with it, is a pudding like concoction made in Hawaii (I believe from taro root) and served at luaus. While attending my first luau some years ago, I was urged to try the poi, despite it's lutefisk like reputation so that I could "impugn it with authority". And so, like so many other things which are inexplicably popular, I will be making a trip to the local cinema (for a matinee) so I can authoritatively tell everyone just how bad it was.
    • by anacron (85469) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:36PM (#7397803)
      The Tomatometer is currently at 38/100. In contrast, Matrix I was 86% and Reloaded was 73%.

      Maybe this is why Warner Brothers wanted a worldwide simultaneous release. They effectively mitigated their risk that the opinions of audiences in one country would adversely affect sales revenues in other countries.

      In essence, the movie sucked, they knew it, and used the gimmick of the worldwide simultaneous release to increase first-weekend sales to the point that it wouldn't matter if everyone thought the movie sucked.

      .anacron
  • by Daniel Wood (531906) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:15PM (#7397533) Homepage Journal
    Here, in Colorado Springs, Revolutions started showing at 7:20AM. Caught the first showing for $3.75(Early Bird Price).

    The ending certainly was not what was expected. Decent none the less. Certainly better than the second one. But once again, nothing in comparison to the original.

    The dialog at the end with Agent Smith was great. Best part of the movie, IMHO.
  • But... (Score:4, Funny)

    by LurkerXXX (667952) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:16PM (#7397549)
    You can't just review it. You have to realize... there is no movie.
  • by pheared (446683) <kevin@phea[ ].net ['red' in gap]> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:16PM (#7397554) Homepage
    "The Wachowski brothers have delivered a dud so disappointing, they may as well have bussed in Ewoks to save Zion"
  • by atari2600 (545988) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:16PM (#7397563)

    Well i saw it yesterday (sneak preview) - tell you what? go with 0 expectations and it will be almost alright. Without spoiling anything, all i can tell you people is that don't be surprised or fall dead if you see Matrix 4 (Matrix: Ultimatum) or something come out in the next year.

  • by glgraca (105308) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:17PM (#7397569)
    ...go rent Dark City to compensate.
    • by Valdrax (32670) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:01PM (#7398070)
      Rent it, but fast-forward through the intro until you see a guy wake up in a bathtub. The intro of Keifer Sutherland's character explaining the setup was obviously a Hollywood edit to dumb-down the movie for people who just wouldn't "get" what was going on from watching the story develop. Everything will eventually be explained later for the sake of the main character anyway, and it's much more absorbing if you know nothing about what's going on going into it.
  • I just saw it. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by blackmonday (607916) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:18PM (#7397598) Homepage
    I just saw the 6:30 Am screening in Glendale, CA. My take: the 2nd best of the series. Less phony Kung Fu, more Sci-fi-ish. Fewer overt religious overtones. Overall, the most fantastic CGI I have ever seen. Not all is wrapped up nicely, so don't expect to understand everything when the credits start rolling.

    A movie at 6:30 AM, what's wrong with me?

    • "Fewer overt religious overtones."

      You, sir, are quite obviously smoking crack. The only way they could have made more religious overtones is if Neo decided to dress like the Pope. I mean seriously man, the second one left things up for interpetation.. "Is Zion still in the matrix, or does Neo really have magic powers outside of the matrix now?".. and now he's the second coming of christ. Fan fucking tastic.

  • by Keith Mickunas (460655) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:19PM (#7397602) Homepage
    I saw it Monday night, and I feel it was similar to Reloaded. Not quite the same as far as fight scenes go. But then again it was pretty clear that a simple fight was not going to settle things between Neo and Agent Smith. I was surprised about Trinity though.

    Still, both were a let down from the Matrix. To much mysticism type stuff, where his powers extended beyond the matrix. Matrix stuff crossing over into the real world just didn't make a lot of sense.
  • by dagnabit (89294) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:19PM (#7397616) Homepage
    ...but I still like the original the best.

    Some great action and effects, but like with Reloaded, they gave away a lot in trailers and on the late-night show "clips"... so not a lot of surprises IMO.

    The theater I went to was pretty full (6 am here in San Diego). One loser watching Reloaded on his laptop got a lot of laughs from people. Two dudes came in dressed as Neo and Agent Smith, but they were pretty cool about the whole thing.

    The best part - they were only charging matinee pricing of 6.50 to see it!
  • This is /. (Score:5, Funny)

    by core plexus (599119) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:19PM (#7397617) Homepage
    "... I'm expecting the /. reviews to start pouring in around 11:30.

    You forget, this is /. and waiting to see the movie before reviewing it would be like reading the article before commenting on it.

    -cp-

    President Bush to Liberate Alaska [alaska-freegold.com]

  • Just a thought (Score:5, Interesting)

    by JayBlalock (635935) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:21PM (#7397643)
    (Disclaimer, I haven't seen it yet, just speculating)

    One thing that's interesting about the Matrix movies is that they've become a LOT of different things to a lot of different people. Thanks to the Wachowskis rather brilliant blending of pop culture, Campbell, Jung, Christianity, and Buddhism, they're movies that can resonate with people on so many different levels. Just look at the various articles that've been written since 1999 interpreting the movies and you can see it. You could almost believe these people are seeing different films under the same name.

    The problem though, is that a finale, by its nature, must be conclusive. It has to have at least some answers to the big questions. And if (SPECULATING) for example, you were wanting to see a Taoist "balance" ending, and it turns out to be a western-style Good-triumphs-over-Evil, then you're going to be disappointed. Or if you consider the philosophical questions about Causality and Fate more important than the skeleton plot, if the movie is too action-heavy you're going to be irritated that it doesn't solve the philosophical quandaries. (or vice-versa in either situation, obviously)

    So, while I won't know for myself until about 4 this afternoon, I suspect the problem is not going to be one of Revolutions being a bad\disappointing movie, but that there is simply no way that the Wachowskis could wrap it up and provide a satisfactory conclusion to ALL the "movies" which the Matrix has become to its viewers.

    • The Prisoner (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mccalli (323026) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:39PM (#7397830) Homepage
      One thing that's interesting about the Matrix movies is that they've become a LOT of different things to a lot of different people....The problem though, is that a finale, by its nature, must be conclusive.

      Not really. I'm a fan of the 1968 series The Prisoner, starring Patrick McGoohan. Some see it as surreal oddness, some a spy story that degnerated, some as a template for defiance against authority and some...well, some just like the series.

      It has one of the most legendarily weird endings of all time - the episode Fall Out. People have been arguing over that one for over thirty years, as its symbolism is both overt (there's nothing literal in there) and yet entirely opaque. I have no idea what it means, and McGoohan once asked that if someone ever says they know what it all is, could they please let him know?

      So no, I don't believe finales have to explain everything. You're right about the movies meaning different things to different people though. To add a tinge of flamebait to the post, to me the films pose the question "how can people comment so seriously on such obviously rehashed ideas?", but your opinion may differ.

      Cheers,
      Ian

    • by Syberghost (10557) <.moc.tsohgrebys. .ta. .tsohgrebys.> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:45PM (#7397884) Homepage
      Thanks to the Wachowskis rather brilliant blending of pop culture, Campbell, Jung, Christianity, and Buddhism, they're movies that can resonate with people on so many different levels.

      Which of these two definitions of "brilliant" did you mean:

      2. (Print.) The smallest size of type used in England printing. [1913 Webster]

      3. A kind of cotton goods, figured on the weaving. [1913 Webster]

      Because I know you didn't mean the first definition for it.

  • by Allaran (557295) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:23PM (#7397663)
    Too bad I didn't think of this, but I thought it deserved to be here on Slashdot in case you don't read everything: You mean it doesn't end with Keanu Reeves waking up, turning to Alex Winter and saying "Bill, I just had a most excellent dream!"? Shame.
  • Just got back... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by chuckw (15728) <chuckw@quantumlinux.com> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:25PM (#7397679) Homepage Journal
    Just got back from the 6:00am showing of the movie and I was pretty impressed. Nothing was overdone like the big fight scene in Reloaded. There were some great twists and turns. The back channel plots were great and the end came together beautifully. It was also very academic in some respects, which probably explains why general audiences (read "unwashed masses") won't "get" it. You don't necessarily have to be glued to every word to understand what's going on, but it helps having seen the other two movies along with the Animatrix a few times. You should definitely not go into the movie expecting it to be a self contained story.

    In a lot ways, I understand the bad reviews. It's a lot like where Open Source was a few years ago. It was very hard at times to get people to understand the benefits of it. I am sure that in time people will see the message of this movie and that the trilogy will be a real classic.

    I definitely give it two thumbs up.
    • by Augusto (12068) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:34PM (#7397771) Homepage
      Why does the Matrix inspire this type of snobishness?

      "It was also very academic in some respects, which probably explains why general audiences (read "unwashed masses") won't "get" it."

      Basically, if you don't like these movies you are not intellectual enough. This was the same defense offered by many Matrix "fans" to people who didn't like Reloaded. By the way, Reloaded was a dreadful movie, just because somebody doesn't like it doesn't mean their dumb or unsophisticated.

      I've already seen a lot of negative reaction to this movie in the reviews and from the net. And already the apologists are saying that the "unwashed" masses are not smart enough to appreciate this "wonderful" piece of art. This type of spinning of the movie is not encouraging.

    • by KirkH (148427) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:01PM (#7398065)
      Just got back from the 6:00am showing of the movie and I was pretty impressed.

      You probably fell asleep 20 minutes into it and dreamed a better movie. It's the only explanation.
  • by anany01 (265329) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:26PM (#7397687)
    I am a real Matrix fan. I couldn't sleep at all last night, knowing I was going to watch Revolutions at 9AM today. However, I felt it was a disappointing failure for several reasons:

    1. Trinity dies for no reason, as they don't use her death in any meaningful way.
    2. The scene with the machines entering the outer hull of Zion was drawn out needlessly, as it contained no switching between the fight at Zion and Neo's plight (think: middle/end of ROTJ)
    3. The fight scene with Smith/Baines and Neo in the Logos was completely extraneous.
    4. Neo's death in the end leaves the humans without a powerful weapon against the machines if they were to decide to attack the humans again. Contrast this with Star Wars and LotR, where the playing field is leveled at the end, or slightly in favor of the protagonists.
    5. Keanu Reeves performance was subpar, even for him. In the climactic battle with Smith at the end, he looked drugged and was not convincing as the leader of the free world. He had no fire, and it was the machines and the Oracle that actually spurred him on to defeat Smith (esp. the machines, as they revived him after being consumed by Smith).
    6. In the beginning, he was trapped in the train station for no conceivable reason but to lengthen the movie. It served no purpose, benefitted the movie naught and did not lead to any great discoveries that were used later in the film. Likewise, how we could be jacked in without being jacked in was never satisfactorily addressed.

    If you are a Matrix fan, I urge you to watch this movie with the blinders off and see for yourself what a bad job the Wachowski bros. did with this, what could have been the end of the best sci-fi movie trilogy in history.
  • by u2fan00 (719011) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:27PM (#7397699) Homepage
    Wow. I saw the 7:00 AM show in Salt Lake City, UT. I have to say I was pretty disappointed. I mean, the CGI/effects were incredible, and the battle in Zion was really well done. But the philosophical mumbo-jumbo did not really come together very well. I think they should have wrapped it up better. They really did not answer any of the questions, or explain how anything could have happened. They relied on the idea of choice. So I have a choice to watch it, enjoy it, or watch it and be disappointed. For now, I chose to be disappointed. But go see it for the effects, those are incredible!
  • hitchcock's horror (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yurigoul (658468) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:29PM (#7397722) Homepage
    Hitchcock would have loved the first one because of the clear cut way they told the story and used suspense to tell it.

    'No officer, your men are allready dead' and after that you get the fight. It is a classic example of creating suspense like Hitchcock used it, but faster.

    But Hitchcock would have hated the sequels. The story has no starting point, instead it follows the Hollywood formula of all sequels: just let the same events happen in roughly the same order (Trinity opens with a fight and someone dies and is resurected). It is like they forgot how to deliver a complex story to an audience. Instead it became a vehicle for stunning special effects. And that is something that continues in the third episode with for instance the use of rain. There is no better way to show your quality as a CG master than with the use of rain isn't there?

    No. this one has 'hire me' signs all over it. Just like the second one. They did not start a new CG company for nothing. This is just a big trailer sponsored by those visiting the cinema and buying the DVD.

    The should have started part two with an introduction on the use of keys and being a program. Just like they did in number one with the use of special forces.
  • by krist0 (313699) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:29PM (#7397726) Homepage Journal
    with ted waking up,

    "whoa, that was a most excellent dream"

    *guitar solo*
  • Martrix Regurgitated (Score:4, Informative)

    by JThaddeus (531998) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:31PM (#7397739)
    Jeez, and I thought #2 stunk! The review [washingtonpost.com] from the Washington Post [washingtonpost.com] was caustic: "Neo, schmeo! In "The Matrix Revolutions," directors Andy and Larry Wachowski give up on character; instead, they try havoc and let slurp the dogs of war. The film is a soggy mess, essentially a loud, wild 100-minute battle movie bookended by an incomprehensible beginning and a laughable ending." I'll sit this out.
  • by asr_br (143523) <ademar@@@ademar...org> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:31PM (#7397744) Homepage
    First of all, I must confess I'm a huge fan of Matrix (soo much to ask my boss if I could go see the movie - and I went) :)

    --- spoilers ahead ---

    But the movie sucks. Very nice effects (as usual), but the plot is horrible... very predictive, full of fallacies. IMHO, most things that were kept open at the end of Reloaded are still open (who is the Merovingian? How can Neo control/destroy the machines in the real world? Why Persephony wanted a kiss?).

    But nothing can be compared to the final fight, where Neo and Smith just look like two Dragon Ball-Z characteres... I could do nothing but laugh.

    Anyway, I'll see the movie again and probably buy the DVD, but it was a great deception to me as a Matrix fan... :(
    • by malfunct (120790) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:56PM (#7398008) Homepage
      I have sort of formulated the opinion that a major point of the series is outlining the difference between human intelligence and artificial intelligence. The series portrays the machines as logical and unable to exert free choice. They lack the ability to understand things such as love or free choice. That as far as I can tell is the flaw in the matrix, and why people eventually want out.

      It seems that Neo is a tool of the matrix to attempt to learn about "being human". In the end it seemed like Kadya (the little girl that is the child of the power subsystem and the creative interactive programmer) was the next evolution of matrix programs because she had no purpose (something no program in the past was allowed) and was able to chose, that choice being represented in her love for her parents and in her admiration of Neo.

      Neo also seemed to be a tool of the matrix to make choices that they could not make themselves. At the end of the 2nd movie Neo made the choice for the machines on whether or not to end the war, he chose to end the war by not returning to the source and repopulating Zion. At the end of the 3rd movie you see Neo making the choice on how to end the war, to ahnnialate all machines and humans, or to let both live in peace.

      They totally don't explain how Neo is able to interact with the matrix when outside of it or how he was able to destroy machines. My personal feeling is that he wasn't, he was only able to communicate with the Oracle, she did all the dirty work. Why didn't she choose to do that on her own and instead rely on the choices of Neo? Programs were (until kadya I think) unable to make free choices, especially (or maybe only) ones that made no sense or served no preconcieved purpose, so a human was necessary to make those choices. Once made the Oracle carried them out.

      I honestly have no idea who the Merovingian is, though it seems that he has something to do with bugs in the system, keeping around old code that is no longer necessary, working withing the bounds of the programming but outside of what was desired (by who? I don't know). The reason Persephony wanted a kiss in my opinion is that she wanted some way to feel some humanness, she wanted to feel love, which again is something foreign to the machines.

      The final battle went on way too long, and didn't really help the movie any, though a battle of wills (which is what the story asked for) wouldn't look good on the screen. I wouldn't have minded some cut into the "computer world view" where they battle with thier minds and then a bit of dialog where smith tries to win by overcoming neo, and then neo realizing that in order to win he needs to make the less obvious choice, to lose.

      Unlike most of the posts I've read, I really enjoyed the battle scene in the dock. It gripped me, had me jumping, cheering, and nearly crying. Maybe I'm odd but I haven't seen a battle scene that compelling since the trench run in StarWars 1.

      Can someone explain to me why a robot would need to manually reload its guns from a backpack on its back though? Seemed kind of silly, about as silly as the people running ammo out to the APU's with a wheelbarrow when electric bolts seemed to be far more effective in destroying the sentinals. Also why the heck didn't the digging machine detect that it had broken through a pocket and do something to lower itself gently to the next level?

      Anyways I enjoyed the movie, I was on the edge of my seat in anticipation and suspense even though it was always obvious what would happen next. I must agree that they could have taken the movie to whole new philosophical levels but left it at a pretty low and obvious level.

  • by jm91509 (161085) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:31PM (#7397745) Homepage
    He said it sucked. Kinda spoils it I recon.
  • by mabu (178417) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:31PM (#7397746)
    The first movie was good, or the first half. The premise was quite interesting and innovative, and then it slowed down and turned into a Kung Fu movie. I still never understood why the tech community was so quick to embrace this series as an icon. It is not worthy. Have we stooped so low as to think the Matrix' goofy "which reality is real" premise as something worth using brain cells to contemplate? This is only a notch away from the other, equally-cerebral dilemma: "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?"

    And thus began the "Matrix Revolution" of an endless array of technical FX as a substitute for a decent plot and character development.

    Not that things haven't been this way since the dawn of cinema, but most movies nowadays are just big-budget, formulaic, television-level dramas designed less to make you think, less to entertain than they are to distract and take your money and serve as a vehicle for a plethora of merchandising efforts.

    With few exceptions, most of the great classic movies of the last 20-30 years have been neutered in a progressive attempt to capitalize on the originals' success via a string of contrived sequels.

    The same thing has happened to the music industry. Instead of great lyrics and creative musicianship, we're bombarded with cute-faces, dance moves and regurgitated hooks that are over-produced and heavily compressed. There should be a new category for this crap music, like there should be a new category for these new movies which do little more than feed our ever-increasing ADD.
  • matrix-regurgitated (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mrycar (578010) <mrycar@gmailPLANCK.com minus physicist> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:32PM (#7397749) Homepage Journal
    Went and saw Matrix III on monday. Special effects are still awesome, fights scenes were not bad. Battle tactics of the squids was pretty cool, but in my opinion this was the weakest of the matrix movies.

    Was rather disappointed with the ending.
  • by cliveholloway (132299) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:38PM (#7397814) Homepage Journal
    OK, i saw it with a colleague. We disagree - he liked it better than Reloaded. But anyway, my gripes:

    CGI was too much sometimes. The scenes went from nothing to kamikaze, with no clear focal point on the screen.

    The bit from the trailer with the head honcho machine. WTF was that? So it's a machine - does it mean it can't hold a conversation?

    Agent Smith explodes at the end WTWTWTF? If Neo was corrupting him, then why all the crap with the fight scene before hand?

    No key scene to define the film (think Burly Brawl/Freeway).

    Oh, and the plot seemed extremely shallow compared to the last one - I was looking forward to some more in depth (or at least pop :) philosophy.

    Why was Smith such a threat? The machines didn't look that bothered. Why was it left to Neo to fix?

    Ack, I could go on, but I think I should go see it sober first :)

    Matrix - 10/10, Reloaded 8/10, Revolutions 4/10

    cLive ;-)
  • Please Don't Hate Me (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jazman_777 (44742) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:39PM (#7397828) Homepage
    But I didn't see Matrix Reloaded and won't go see Matrix Revolutions. I still have only the unspoiled, pristine, beautiful memory of The Matrix.
  • by mugnyte (203225) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:53PM (#7397985) Journal
    Now that Neo has been sacrificed to save the balance of power between humans and machines, there are still some who will not accept the interdependence. Led by Morpheus, who now believes Neo was led astray by an infection from the Architect, a small band of humans attempt Wrenching the newest incarnation of the Matrix.

    Energy is more expensive than ever as humans begin suffering from a disease that reduces their capacity to feed the machines. Because of this, the sources of EMPs built by the Matrix machines are reduced and become more important. Morpheus hatches a plot to spoil the explosives of EMPs by inserting a new program into their factories : he can arm and fire them remotely, before they are carried to their destination.

    As the setups in the factories are completed, the rebels suffer from fracturing as Morpheus begins to doubt the plan. In losing his fight to an even-stronger charasmatic rebel leader, the EMPs are set off in timed sequence. The machines nearby are shut-down, and chos begins to ensue across the surface of the planet. For the moment, there is celebration. End chapter one.

    The machines deploy a geothermic well to begin removing the energy from core of the earth, planning for a hibernation phase. They begin to again bore into ground, but while readying themselves for a fight, the humans are surprised to learn they are relatively ignored. Once close to the core, the earth quickly begins to cool as cold water is steamed throughout Zion. End chapter two.

    Inside the matrix, there is a population blight, as new births become rare, and people begin scrambling for survival. Quite a few renegade programs conspire to resurrect Neo for guidance. With the help of a brash (an incredible fighting) infiltration into The Architect's domain, the programs murder him when he refuses to give them Neo. Fortunately, they achieve their goal and Neo stand among them. End chapter three.

    Neo stands before the rebels in an attempt to explain their mistake and ask for their help in fueling a cooporative effort invented by him. The Humans will re-enter the pods to power the machines again, if only temporarily. Then, a massive tower will be built to reach beyond the dark cloud of the sky to tap back into the sun, again bringing power to the earth. Then, the machine will no longer require humans to power themselves, and a truce will be brokered.

    After quite a bit of kung-fu fighting and several backstabs among the different groups, Morpheus returns to lead the people back into the pods. We are are given a scene of a long machine arm, opening in flower-like fashion in high atmosphere, silloetted by the bright sun. Not all questions are answered. Fade out.

  • by theefer (467185) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @01:54PM (#7397993) Homepage
    This is a good movie, but it's not the ending -- and the movie -- we wanted or were waiting for.

    We have all been elaborating Matrix Revolutions plot in our heads (and websites) ever since we saw Reloaded. The real movie is not based on our personal plot, and this is the main source of disappointment, no matter how good or bad is the movie itself.
  • How will this age (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sielwolf (246764) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:00PM (#7398055) Homepage Journal
    Interesting to see all the posts now. Question is: how will it be viewed in five years?

    Remember when Phantom Menace came out and everyone was still saying that it was up to par with the Original Trilogy? And then AotC came out and it supposedly saved the franchise from the disaster that was PM?

    I think there's a lot of that immediacy here with these movies. There is so much expectation and fandamonium involved that "not being horrible" means that the movie must be good. Only over time do the weaknesses and strengths balance out so people can judge them. I'm always reminded of Jim Carey's The Grinch which was the top grossing movie of that year and now no one remembers that it even came out.

    Personally? The repetition of the acting, pop philosophy and CG had gotten old by the first 5 minutes of Reloaded. There has to be something in this movie that "sells" it to me. Something unique where you can't just say "it's very similar to this scene in the previous movie but-" or "it's just like the part in Aliens where-"

    Frankly the last one of the movies to do that was the original Matrix. Things now seem to be so bad that I actually get sick feelings when thinking/hearing about the first. It's been tainted by its progeny.

    Yet I still got my ticket for an 8pm showing. Like Ebert said (giving it 3 stars while strangely blasting it for the whole length of his review) I'm going to take my graduation after earning my credits on the first two. Maybe my low expectations are the way to go?
  • by *weasel (174362) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:03PM (#7398088)
    I mean, check out this collection of references from The Matrix and Reloaded (i'd imagine it'll be updated with Revolutions soon enough) here [blogspot.com].

    look at how many references and such in the list are from The Matrix, and how few are from Reloaded.

    You see, when the Wachowski's hadn't had a break-out hit, they had to be careful, subtle, clever.

    They surely wrote, edited and rewrote The Matrix several times. The philosophy was there, but it wasn't as prominent or cumbersome. The bold allusions made the ideas accessible, and the density of the subtle references provided something to think about. The devil was in the details.

    The Matrix had good editing that kept exposition down to what mattered, and had decent character development. The romance wasn't a centerpiece throughout, it was strung along more like Han and Leia's romance in Star Wars. It was there - it played its part, but it didn't hit you over the head or command unnecessary screentime.

    The forced romance in Reloaded (and likely revolutions) is more reminiscent of Lucas' prequels, where the audience is beat over the head with it, and the lack of chemistry between the actors is made center stage.

    but once The Matrix made it big, the Wachowskis had a free ticket. No-one was going to tell them to trim the fat anymore. To put the heavier philosophy in more subtle references and keep the blatant topics accessible. But who's going to say that when they can make that much green?

    The sequels were both churned out together in a mere 24 months. Their near complete loss of depth was nearly guaranteed.

    The Wachowskis had total freedom with Reloaded and Revolutions, and apparently they decided they'd rather be broad in their blatant coverage of religious and philosphical ideas than tell a good story.

    The first thing aspiring fiction writers are supposed to learn is that the Idea-focused story is hard as hell to write well (even though it is almost uniformly where scifi writers begin).

    It is very difficult to write a good story where its entirety is leading your audience from problem exposition to problem exposition until you finally foist your supreme solution-Idea on them.

    It is much better to wrap your solution Idea into a stand-apart traditional story. Expose the great solution-idea a bit earlier, and develop the characters involved and the conflicts to show the different angles and attributes of your idea as the solution to the various problems. The key is to make the thing interesting, or your Idea won't matter.

    Methinks the Wachowskis forgot that with their carte blanche control over the sequels.
    • by watchful.babbler (621535) on Thursday November 06, 2003 @01:36AM (#7404289) Homepage Journal
      It's definitely an "idea" movie, with all the problems and opportunities represented -- the only thing I can compare it to right now is the Ring Cycle (though Wagner was inspired by Schopenhauer, a very fine philosopher from a very different school than that which inspired the Matrix). I think there are more references in M:Rld and M:Rv than you give credit for, however.

      I believe the Matrix is largely incomprehensible unless one has at least a reasonable familiarity with S0ren Kierkegaard ("SK") and crisis theology. In fact, I'd argue that the series narrows down from its expansive view of philosophy in the first two movies to, in both the EtM video game and M:Rv, a tight focus on Kierkegaard's conception of freedom as radical choice. By contrast, M:Rld went all over the philosophical map, my favorite example being that the Zion council seems to be populated entirely by Jamesian Pragmatists (including Cornel West, whose most interesting work was a sustained discussion of American Pragmatism).

      Just a few Kierkegaardian references in the Matrix:

      - In EtM (which crystallized my understanding of TM as Kierkegaardian), Ghost quotes SK on faith and absurdity. In the game, the tripartite crew of Sparks, Niobe, and Ghost are almost certainly representative of SK's view of human life as aesthetic, ethical and religious, respectively. (The three Demiurges -- the Merovingian, Architect, and Oracle -- seem to recapitulate this schematic.)

      - The Christ parallel in Neo is so blatant as to hardly be worth mentioning, but his death deserves some observations: he died to redeem Man (and Machine), since Trinity's death precluded his doing it out of love for any one individual; his death redeemed M&M from Smith (who seems, amongst many other things, to represent Original Sin, being the ultimate descendent from the war between M&M); his death also freed the condemned from hell (when the Architect agrees to release programs and persons who wish to leave the Matrix).

      - When Neo dies, the machine-ruler says, "It is done." This is the same thing Christ says in John 19:30 (and is also used two more times in the Bible -- after the world is created in Genesis, and after it is destroyed in the Revelation). Smith is then rescinded from the world, the Matrix is created anew, and peace descends upon Zion. Apart from begging the infralapsarian question, this reinforces the idea of Neo as propitiation (as many Christians see Christ dying to expiate the sins of Man). I'm a bit uneasy with this part because Neo is shown as bargaining for salvation -- something that is completely incoherent in most versions of Christianity, and more importantly, within Kierkegaard. At the same time, I have to wonder what happens to Neo at this point. In John, Christ says, "It is done," then commends his soul to God. Does this imply that Neo has joined with the machine-ruler? Is one of the reasons peace descends because Neo has joined the machine-consciousness and broken the old covenant of slavery? Is he a mediator between man and machine (viz 1 Tim. 2:5-6)?

      - The Trainman is deeply concerned with time: when we meet him in EtM, he tells Niobe how many hours Zion can be expected to last against the machine onslaught. ("72 hours. That's exactly how long Zion lasted last time.") In M:Rv, he is obsessed with punctuality, and has an intimate connection with time, shown by the many watches he wears on his wrist and his intimate knowledge of train schedules. This emphasis on time seems designed to evoke SK's discussion of time in his Concluding Unscientific Postscript, in which he directly discusses the entrance of eternity into time. (The Oracle's line in EtM, "The path of the One is made by the many," echoes SK's assertion that the many discrete points of temporality create the possibility of eternity.)

      - Kierkegaard's doctrine of radical choice permeates the script, culminating in the Smith v. Neo showdown. I suspect that Smith is meant to represent (amongst many things!) existentialism, just as the Age

  • Spoilers! (Score:5, Funny)

    by tangent3 (449222) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:06PM (#7398122)
    I just watched it, thank goodness for time difference and living in the far east. Ok, here are the spoilers.

    1. Neo and Agent Smith beat the shit out of each other.
    2. Neo and Trinity kiss. Many times.
    3. Locke thinks Morpheus is a lunatic
    4. The sentinels lay waste to Zion's defense.
    5. Persephone was really cute.
    6. The Oracle bakes more cookies
    7. There is no spoon.
  • back from a show (Score:5, Informative)

    by MattW (97290) <matt@ender.com> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:08PM (#7398138) Homepage

    * Pacing is good, you don't feel like the movie gets bogged down (which I felt during the extended Zion scene of Reloaded, even though I liked most of its parts individually)

    * The ending is disappointing. I don't mean it's just lame, per se, but it isn't what you're really expecting, and it feels bad at first. If you stop and think things through, I think it actually makes good sense. In a way, it ends how it HAD to end.

    * Many things are never explained, and you expect them to be. Don't expect much in the way of logical explanation for a number of discrepancies. After Reloaded, you end up postulating a lot, "Well, it must be true that XXX, but how?" Well, Revolutions has characters saying, "XXX is how it is" plainly, but they don't explain why.

    Sadly, I don't think the vision was complete. The Wachowski's probably DON'T have the answers to the tough questions to make the Matrix picture 'fit', and so they fail to achieve the true suspension of disbelief that allows immersion, and that hurts them. It doesn't really matter how absurd your premises are when it is clear they are premises; you need internal consistency. Reloaded and Revolutions, as a unit, fail to delivery that.

    Put one way, this is a good movie. It is worth seeing, it has its moments, but it is not the mind-blowing, zen-moment conclusion that fans would have wanted. It does not sate the lust for action OR explanation, and so it comes up short.

    In a way, it feels like a rush or a march to the conclusion. The actual true ending DOES make sense, even despite being vaguely disappointing, but it also leaves a lot of unanswered questions.
  • by mjh (57755) <mark AT hornclan DOT com> on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:15PM (#7398224) Homepage Journal
    MUST NOT READ THREAD...
    Must not...

    <struggles with mouse>

    Aw, crap!
  • by jakedata (585566) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:16PM (#7398240)
    In the Matrix, all three of the Matrix movies would have rocked.

  • by bobdotorg (598873) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:22PM (#7398296)
    I saw it in Westwood (a trendy part of Los Angeles) and there was a video crew filming fan reactions outside the theater.

    "Give us your opinion of the movie," they asked.

    I replied, "How about this, I give you the finger, and you give me my $9.75 back."

    I suspect I won't make the final edit for the commercial.
  • by dougnaka (631080) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:38PM (#7398494) Homepage Journal
    I'm a Matrix fan. I've loved every Matrix movie that's come out. Highly entertaining, wildly energetic, and beautifully played out. The Agent Smith fight scene had amazing visuals that stood independent of the special effects. The story continues the Reloaded twist, without throwing any unsuspected curve balls into the mix.
    If you're a Matrix fan, of course you'll see it, and I recommend you do.
    Neo wakes up inside a section between the Machine word and the "Real" world, called the train station. His body is still lying in sick bay and he shows brain activity like someone jacked in, but they search the Matrix and can't find him. He meets a "family" of AI who were making sacrifices to save their "daughter".
    They are doing it because they love, and Neo learns that programs can have the same connection as humans do that they call love.
    There's some real connecting done in the train station that provides the basis for the hope of peace between the machines and the humans.
    Morpheus and Trinity are summoned by the Oracle, who has a new body, it's later implied that frenchie (the Marovingian? sp?) forced her to.
    They meet with her, she tells them where Neo is, and take her body gaurd kung foo guy with them to find the train driver, to rescue Neo.
    They find him and give a short chase, but he gets away. He goes and picks up the family at the train station, and tells Neo he doesn't get to go.
    Neo acts like he doesn't want to throw the guy a beatin, but the train guy tells Neo how he built this place and he's god there, and apparantly he is, and Neo gets a good stomach punch into the wall from him. Neo's stuck, and Morpheus, Trinity and kung foo body guard guy dont know what to do. Kungo foo joe recommends going back to the Oracle, and Trinity says why, we konw what to do. They go beat their way into the techno S&M club where the Marovingian hangs, and negotiate a trade. He wants the Oracles eyes for Neo's release.
    Trinity gets impatient and they crack some skulls, and she ends pulling off an awesome catch of a mid air Berretta and putting it firmly in the Marovingian's forehead.
    She negotiates a new deal, and it cuts to them rescueing Neo from train station. Meanwhile the physical world agent smith has woken up, and "doesn't remember anything".
    Commander tough recommends the doctor give him something to help, and it's back inside the Matrix where they're rushing to get out, when Neo says he has to see the Oracle. He meets her, they talk. He asks some good questions, the gist is she chose to help them out, and is taking some big risks because she wants what Neo wants, peace. Then on to Neo getting unjacked from the Matrix. Quick note, when did they jack him in?
    He was in the Matrix from the train station, where he arrived when he used his powers outside the Matrix. They ask Neo some questions but he says he needs some time, and retires to his crappy little room to think. Occaisonally there are flashes of him thinking and crazy electrical lines all over, and then the recurring theme of the 3 power lines running off into the mountains.
    After they question human agent smith, they meet and decide to head back to Zion.
    Neo comes in and tells them he knows what he has to do. He has to take a ship and go to the machine city, commander tough thinks he's crazy, and tells him no way he's gettin his ship. Naiobi lets Neo have her ship, which just needed a jump start after they found her and her crew. Back to sick bay, the medic chick goes to give
    the agent smith guy a shot, he asks what its for, she says to help him remember, he says what if he don't wanna remember, what if he did the EMP blast, he'd be scared, which means he doesn't want the shot, so she should be scared, then he stabs her with a scalple, and she promptly dies. He takes off. Captain tough guys ship is going to be piloted by Naiobi through some really tight holes so they can sneak past the sentinals to get back to Zion, and Neo and Trinity, who insisted on going with Neo, are going to the machine
  • Ebert liked it (Score:4, Informative)

    by e40 (448424) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @02:42PM (#7398541) Journal
    His review is here [suntimes.com].
  • by taradfong (311185) * on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @03:21PM (#7399005) Homepage Journal
    Ever play 'Alternate Reality' on the Atari 8 bit computers? This epic game was to end with a realization that you're in a matrix-like cocoon. The creator of the game, Phil Price, evidently met the W. brothers, and (quote)

    I did talk to two guys while at a restaurant in Westwood [In LA , near UCLA, it's the core of Hollywood]. I explained to them AR and it storyline, ideas and the Hollywood movie Dark City simularities to some of it and it's differences [i.e. things I think they did wrong in that movie that made it a bomb in the box office]. They listened intently, and one of them remarked to me (as they smiled to each other) was that "ideas can't be copyrighted". Matrix came out a few years later, I very much doubt they were the two brothers who came up with Matrix, but it made me wonder after Matrix came out.

    see this [marktaw.com] for many more comparisons between the two.
  • by djeaux (620938) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @03:37PM (#7399198) Homepage Journal
    ... is if Trinity or Persephone get NEKKID in this one?
  • by fuqqer (545069) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @03:41PM (#7399234) Homepage
    If you really wanna read this whole thread, go ahead but, here it is in a nutshell.

    1. 98% of the posts say, "The new flick isn't as good as the first one (no shit?, one asks).
    2. You could say the readership of slashdot is split almost evenly as to whether or not it's better than the second.
    3. Bunch of posts saying hollywood sux.
    4. Will there be another Matrix movie and money making media releases?
    5. Some asswipe who wasn't modded down to hell for saying Glendale CA rocks in response to a post by a user who says they saw the new flick in Glendale.
    6. If you're reading this much Matrix material on slashdot, you should burn pictures of 'Trinity' under your mattress and take a shower.
    7. If you're writing this list, jesus go away bitter old man thoughts...
    8. A Star Wars / Matrix / Lord of the Rings is better flamewar/circlejerk.
    9. Someone probably suggesting they do an edit to the Matrix trilogy removing Neo like they did with Jar-Jar Binks.
    10. People bitching that they should do an apt-get/emerge/beowulf parallel compile on their freebsd based G5 cluster with --Matrix-Flags=disable-neo-fuck-scenes.

    In Soviet Slashdot, sigs are posts and non-sigs are sigs.
  • by JFMulder (59706) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @05:41PM (#7400574)
    Almost as good as the first one? Not sure yet.

    With that said, I can say that Revolution will go down as one of the best, it not the best sci-fi finale ever for a trilogy. (LOTR doesn't count, as it's fantasy). Much better than episode 6 of Star Wars, and probably better than what the finale of the prequels will be.

    Contrary to what other people say, I don't believe there are any holes at the end of the movie.

    *** SPOILER ALERT ***
    First of all, for all of those that said that the machine didn't care that their food could go bye-bye, well, that's not a plot hole, it was EXPLAINED why they accept so in the architect rant at the end of the 2nd one.

    Second, why should we know what happens with Zion? Do you really need to see them have another rave of something? They'll rebuild what they can, and that's it. No need to do some cheesy crossfades of clips of people rebuilding the city. Those who want to be unplugged from the Matrix will be, and will live with the humans, as the Architect and the Oracle say at the end. What Neo, and Trinity and Morpheus and everyone wanted most of all to give is CHOICE. CHOICE to be part of the Matrix or not. It's not as if people were badly treaten inside the Matrix. They were happy and everything. The difference between what will go on after the end of the 3rd movie and what was going on before is that humans were hunted and killed when they rejected the Matrix, as they serve no purpose to the machines anymore. Now they will be allowed to be free. It's not as if everyone is going to disconnect from the Matrix all at once.

    Anyway, having everyone disconnect would be a really bad idea because after all, the earth is destroyed, there's no hope to get it cleaned up and livable. If they want to live in that mess, FINE, now it's THEIR CHOICE TO DO so. They're not forced to be in the Matrix anymore.

    Also, face it Neo is dead. For once, the hero dies in a movie. And I'm glad he did, because seeing him back with the rest of the people Zion would just feel so cheesy. Anyway, for those who doubt he's dead, I'm pretty sure there's gonna be an entry on IMDB soon about how this film as a connection with King Arthur's story. Notice how when his body was carried at the end on a machine ship it looked oddly like when Arthur is laying on a ship and going to the sea when he dies?
  • What really happened (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bfootdav (18971) on Wednesday November 05, 2003 @10:26PM (#7403252)
    OK folks, I think a lot of you are missing what the trilogy was really about. First off, it has nothing to do with humans. Yep, the humans are just batteries. The trilogy is actually a struggle pitting the oracle against the architect. What the oracle wants is for rogue programs (the ones to be deleted) to be able to live free in the matrix. The final scene where the architect agrees to let those who want to be free be free, he is referring to rogue programs i.e. they won't be deleted now. The oracle has manipulated everything from the beginning, including setting up Agent Smith as the super agent (thanks to Neo's merging with him in the first movie). By making him such a bad ass he would be able to destroy the Architect's "perfect" matrix (and the batteries which would be bad also) the Oracle is able to force the Arhitect's hand and get him to let rogue programs "live" free. The fact that Zion was saved was completely irrelevant except as a motivating force to get Neo to go through with the final merging.

    In fact when Agent Smith has Neo down and then, against his will, makes the exact same statement that the Oracle had made earlier, Neo gets it. He understands that he is to merge with Agent Smith/Oracle thus bringing an end to her fight with the Architect. The problem most people are having is assuming an anthrocentric take on the movie. The humans are lost, they are batteries, Zion cannot prevail and will never do so. The people who make up Zion (pod escapees) are only useful as a consequence of the imperfection necessary in the Matrix program to keep the pod people happy. As the Arhitect said it was a dangerous game the Oracle had played.

    Fucking brilliant.

If I had only known, I would have been a locksmith. -- Albert Einstein

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