Novell Buys Ximian 478
Quite a number of people have been submitting the news that Ximian has been purchased by Novell. All I've found so far is the press release linked to above; more links as they come in. Looks like Nat & Miguel will be remaining around, and Novell's continuing to expand its Open Source commitments. Update: 08/04 17:30 GMT by S : viewstyle writes "According to an interview with Ximian's CTO Miguel de Icaza at Eweek.com, Ximian won't be affected at all by Novell's buyout, and will be shipping a PowerPC version of Mono (preview release in Sept)."
This Might Make Novell More Attractive (Score:5, Interesting)
My biggest problem with Novell is that to get any of the great benefits that Netware provides, I have to buy a slew of stuff -- like ZenWorks and BorderWare. To get a complete network OS, I have to either shell out, or make some kludges to get things to work together, using olde batch files, for example.
In all, this means it's better to start of with something that only claims to be the hub of an NOS and build other software on to it -- like SME Server [e-smith.org] -- and its at no cost.
In buying Ximian, I hope Novell will be able to offer SMEs a workable, useful, solution that gives everyting a NOS should be capable of for the same price (rather than just the core) so desktop management (over Windows, Linux and Mac), e-mail, and firewalling would all come together at a Microsoft-beating price.
Tug - O - War (Score:5, Interesting)
This may make some sense... (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be easy for Novell to put together a nice bundle of Linux technologies, then sell it under their own name. The PHBs who don't trust OSS wouldn't have to know any better.
I'd personally like to see Novell hire the SAMBA team. It would be pretty cool to see them take back the file and print server space from MS using their name on OSS.
Re:Good News! (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is, Ximian isn't a dying technology. This doesn't fit the pattern for Novell...
One more involved (Score:5, Interesting)
Are they all wanting the success of GNU/Linux or is it a case of against-Microsoft-anything-will-do?
These companies, which on certain fields compete against each other, are willing to go in the same direction, isn't it weird?
Re:Good News! (Score:5, Interesting)
It really won't matter one bit if they start running Ximian offerings into the ground. If they are OSS, the community can take over. I thought that was the whole benefit to OSS in the first place. Don't like what the author is doing or the author gets hit by a bus (or acquisition)? DIY.
Re:I wonder... (Score:2, Interesting)
Cool! (Score:1, Interesting)
This is good (Score:5, Interesting)
Now they have a chance to go in with the operating system that EVERYONE is wanting to run (a lot of people _want_ to run Linux, but are unable to do so because of their Windows machines). Novell is the king of getting their software to play nicely with Windows. I can see Novell going into Linux, and then being able to replace Active Directory with the click of a button.
And this purchase means that their server will be incredibly easy-to-use.
Re:This Might Make Novell More Attractive (Score:2, Interesting)
Just so you can get what, exactly? A file server and a directory.
Re:What an embarassment (Score:2, Interesting)
Novell is a great company. Contrary to popular belief, there ARE other options out there besides Micro$oft $olution$ and Linux/BSD.
Re:It's all over for Ximian (Score:5, Interesting)
WordPerfect, Quattro Pro, and Paradox are a different story. Novell never owned Paradox (and I don't they owned Quattro) -- that was a Borland product that was licensed and bundled as part of PerfectOffice -- Novell's competition to Microsoft Office. Novell also had a thin-client/kill-Microsoft strategy at about the same time... this eventually became Caldera OpenLinux.
The real story is the Ray Noorda wanted to be the David to Microsoft's Goliath. After the disasterous acquisition of WordPerfect (and one of the many near-deaths of Novell), Noorda was ejected from the company and started Caldera. Novell became much more sane after that point.
So, don't count out Novell because of WP -- that was a different company than now. They could be getting the megalomaniacal urge to kill Microsoft again, but all the code in this case is GPL'd. Improvements made by Novell in this fools errand will be given to the community and will continue after Novell is gone... or maybe, just maybe, it'll work. (But I'd be selling my Novell stock, if you know what I'm saying.)
Re:Good News! (Score:4, Interesting)
they have VIRTUALLY ZERO experience with development windowing systems and GUI interfaces.
Quite disagree. Novell has a VERY NEGATIVE experience with developing UI:
Re:Mixed Feelings (Score:3, Interesting)
how much was Ximian worth? (Score:5, Interesting)
"The acquisition of Ximian was an all-cash transaction and is not expected to have a material effect on Novell's financial statements"
imply the amount of money involved was peanuts. Does anybody have figures on this?
Re:Evolution Exchange Connector (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What an embarassment (Score:1, Interesting)
What GUI? You mean the Java based one on the server console? That's not an end-user GUI - its meant solely for system administration functions. NetWare is a SERVER, not a workstation OS. What does it need a feature-laden (read: productivity and CPU-cycle draining) GUI for?
Re:One more involved (Score:5, Interesting)
Or maybe they have come to realize that this Open Source thing is pretty cool. Maybe it has nothing to do with making GNU/Linux as an entity succeed, or about sticking it to Microsoft. Maybe it is just quality software into which it is worthwhile to invest a small amount of their time/money.
Re:Good News?!#@#$ (Score:5, Interesting)
Novell never wanted WordPerfect (Score:5, Interesting)
Everybody keeps comparing this to Novell's "disatrous" purchase of WordPerfect -- but that was no disaster. They never wanted WordPerfect; they wanted Groupwise. Wordperfect wasn't interested in selling just Groupwise, so Novell bought the whole she-bang, stripped out Groupwise, then unloaded the rest of it on those poor chumps at Corel. The whole thing actually made a lot of sense for Novell . . .
Re:What an embarassment (Score:3, Interesting)
Ximian Gnome+RedCarpet+... is definitely of value (Score:5, Interesting)
* Evolution -- since they control the direction of it, they can integrate Novell services
* RedCarpet (which is popular and linked to Evolution and Ximian GNOME's success) -- able to ship Novell products to several distributions and to Sun and HP.
* Ximian GNOME (which standardizes the UI and RPMs/DEBs of several desktops) -- allows Novell services to install easier because the have a common install environment (it's basically like UnitedLinux, but broader). This environment also allows them to use RedCarpet to distribute and install other corporate products from other companies (much like Lindows does with their "clip-and-run").
So every facet of Ximian is perfect for Novell. They made a good choice. I hope that they're able to deliver on even half the potential.
Re:Unfortunately.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Same thing would probably happend with MS. Unless it can kill mono completely (via IP claims) once its out of the bag they probably won't be able to control it with an iron fist. Even if they change APIs midstream if Mono has enough of a following and is cross platform an awful lot of people will stick with it.
Re:What an embarassment (Score:5, Interesting)
They're like that Mel Brooks movie where they try to make the worst musical ever to collect on the insurance. Novell executives have been trying to kill the company with the most absurd policies imaginable for years, only saved from disaster by some really outstanding products that were so good that even Novell couldn't fail to sell them.
Netware 3.x was so superior to its competitors that it was in a separate category. Excited at their success, Novell then proceeded to screw their sales channel by changing the reseller requirements on an almost daily basis (we actually got two different updates on the same day, but that was an aberration). Not content with that, they bought up Word Perfect and decided that they were a software company. Resellers had to get training on those products, too, or lose status. Too bad the training didn't actually exist, or was expensive and only available several hundred miles away. Maybe we should take that Unixware class instead. Oops. Oh, and they started pusing their own consulting services in direct competition with their resellers.
Apparently, that didn't drive enough folks into Microsoft's hands. So they decided to come out with a completely new technology that was backwards compatible only if you turned off most of the new features that justified upgrading in the first place. And it was slower. Oh, and the initial release was so broken that when the first dot rev came out, you couldn't upgrade. Take *that*, early adopter scum! You either had to drop back to 3.x and do the entire upgrade and migration all over again, or use some expensive third party tools and hope for the best.
NT took off in no small part because we just got tired of dealing with Novell. It was never great, but it was Good Enough, and their conversion tool from 3.x was at least as easy to use as jumping to Netware 4. Brilliant.
You think Novell buying Ximian will help? No matter how good the code they are pushing in a given week is, they couldn't sell water to a guy who was on fire. Only Xerox is worse at coming up with great ideas and failing to sell them. The best that can be hoped for is that Novell won't screw the project up too badly before they get bored with their newest shiny toy and spin it off to someone else. It could be a good match that has great long term benefits, but it's probably going to be another slow agonizing failure.
Re:Ximian has annoucment (Score:3, Interesting)
This kind of strikes me as an odd purchase though.
Last I checked XAMIAN had two major offerings. The first being their desktop, and the second being mono. Why would Novell (primarily a networking company) want either of them?
XD2? Nah! Its services they want (Score:2, Interesting)
No, I think Novell are interested in servers and services. Microsoft are making alot of noise about WebServices on the
Novell are also trying to leverage NDS on Linux as an alternative to Mickeys active directory. Add RedCarpet into the mix for easy update/deployablility and of course the Ximian connector stuff as a bonus, and they've pretty much got a whole competing stack.
It remains to be seen if Novell now underplay their hand as they have done in the past...
Re:Ximian has annoucment (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems to me they're trying to eliminate Windows from the enterprise desktop, as well as the server end.
Novell bad history on acquisitions (Score:1, Interesting)
But in serious business they will keep on playing niche markets, and some die hards fans of novell.
My prediction is that they'll integrate simian desktop into their products making it easy to administer, extend evolution funcionality, dissappear the symian brand, and figth MS once again.
Re:What does it mean? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nice try. I'll agree that Mormon practices may influence Novell a lot. What do you expect when so much of the workforce of a business subscribes to a certain religion or way of life? Perhaps they didn't have coffee breaks since Mormon's don't drink coffee? I'll agree that there is influence there but I have a hard time seeing how the Mormon church is *controlling* Novell.
I've been to church headquarters many times in SLC. I've met with the Canopy board. I've met with several of the twelve in the Mormon church. I know the Church's CIO personally. I've been extremely happy to see him switch from a pro-Microsoft person to a pro-Unix person in the past few years.
I can tell you that (currently) the Church offices use Windows more than anything else. I'd love to see them use Linux or Novell or anything but big bad Redmond. In fact, perhaps we should just say that the Mormons are controlling Microsoft since they use Windows 99 percent of the time!?! (oh great, now what did I start...) I use a Mac and Linux at BYU, and I have a hard time because everyone else uses Windows!
Disclaimer: Yes, I am a card carrying LDS member. Yes, Mormons have a significant influence in the culture and businesses in Utah and elsewhere. That's what happens when 80 percent of Utah Valley are members. No, the Mormon Church is not controlling Novell or Canopy or the dummies at SCO. If they were, Novell wouldn't be in such financial troubles.
Re:This is good (Score:3, Interesting)
You make me laugh. Ever try to migrate NT to NDS or vice versa? What a pain in the ass! NDS for NT was anything but the "click of a button"!
Re:Wha...? (Score:4, Interesting)
Mormon density, the percentage of Mormons in Utah in 2003 is approximately sixty four percent (64%).
-- From Wild Utah [wildutah.net].
Re:It's all over for Ximian (Score:3, Interesting)
History, never repeats.Novell Expose-Blame Noorda (Score:3, Interesting)
Back in April 25, 1994, PC Magazine had an article announcing that Novell Inc was developing a Linux based desktop system for Windows, DOS, NetWare, and Unix applications [google.com].
From that project, a group of Novell alumni formed Caldera Systems International with the backing of Novell's founder, Ray Noorda.
The Canopy Group, which purchased major holding in Caldera, was also founded by Ray Noorda. [canopy.com]
Today Caldera Systems International, trading under the name The SCO GROUP Inc, at the direction of executives at the Canopy Group Inc, is threating the same target Linux desktop market for using the same technology that Novell owned and sublicensed to the original SCO.
Re:Wha...? (Score:3, Interesting)
Even stranger that that place is Utah.
Mac OS X is the answer (Score:3, Interesting)
The real answer for Unix on the desktop is Mac OS X. Linux is a pain in the ass on the desktop, with or without Ximian.
I would know, I've recently switched to Apple after Using Linux (all distribs) for > 6 years.
Well put (Score:3, Interesting)
Novell is dying, its just a question of when. New companies simply don't invest in Novell, its mostly just old investments which are keeping them afloat. As a CNE and longtime Novell admin its not like I don't appreciate what Netware does/did well, but like the parent mentioned talk to any reseller. They'll be the first to tell you that Novell peaked in the early 90's and has gone downhill since.
I'm not really sure what this means for Ximian. Perhaps this is more of an exit stratedy for Novell more than anything else since its obvious that Netware isn't going to be a reliable cash source forever. At least with Ximian they have at least some sort of opportunity for new growth.
Re:Good News! (Score:3, Interesting)
Another shameful artifact of a distorted marketplace, unfortunately.
I remember when NDS came out to good technical reviews earlier than Active Directory.
Despite all the good press about a good product, most IT managers took the cautious approach, figuring, rightly, that Microsoft would make its directory services offering "integrated" with Windows.
Yep, "integrated', the same way that Brer Rabbit got "integrated" with the Tar Baby.
The same way that IE got "integrated" with Windows.
Re:Ximian has annoucment (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:There might be a few.... (Score:1, Interesting)
Really?
http://biz.yahoo.com/fin/l/n/novl_ai.html [yahoo.com]
http://biz.yahoo.com/fin/l/n/novl.html [yahoo.com]
They haven't turned a profit annually since 2000. See all those numbers in parentheses? That's not to prioritize mathematical operators, Skippy.
Excellent partnership (Score:3, Interesting)
it's not Gnome desktop they're after (Score:2, Interesting)
My prediction is that Novel will:
1) Port Mono to Netware.
2) Port Evolution to Windows (with a connector for GroupWise)
3) Keep Ximian active in the Linux/Unix world, just so they can generate good-will and credibility if/when they're forced to make Linux they're main focus.