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GNU is Not Unix Software

The Open Group's New Open Source Strategy 287

Bruce Perens writes "The Open Group hasn't always had the best reputation in the Open Source community, mostly because of their handling of Motif, which remained proprietary for much too long. But there's no arguing with the success of our community, and now the Open Group leadership understands that their organization must be fully involved in Open Source... or it's time for them to change their name. To that end, the Open Group contracted me to develop an Open Source strategy for their organization. The draft strategy has been published and they are requesting comment. - Bruce"
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The Open Group's New Open Source Strategy

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  • Re:Viral (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wo1verin3 ( 473094 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @01:56PM (#6533779) Homepage
    >> Open Source = Viral.

    It's because people have pride in their work and want to share it with others that open source exists.
  • An added strategy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mao che minh ( 611166 ) * on Friday July 25, 2003 @01:56PM (#6533785) Journal
    The Open Group needs to add one more major strategy: preparing for and combating frivilous legal claims and the insuing litigations.

    This is perhaps the greatest (and one day maybe even the only) threat to Open Source.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25, 2003 @01:59PM (#6533814)
    Someone who understands open source and not some idiot who pretends to understand it but only wants to use the position to further his own career. We trust you Bruce.

    --A community member.
  • As much as this does sound like a troll put yourself in the place of a PHB...
  • Re:Viral (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25, 2003 @02:02PM (#6533852)
    "Open Source = Viral."

    I'd agree except for one minor detail:

    No one forces you to plunder GPL'd (and other similarly licensed) code.

    Millions of programmers and developers get along just fine with the ideals set forth in 'open source' licenses. They also greatly benefit from the fact that some random person or corporation can't then steal their work.
  • by Thagg ( 9904 ) <thadbeier@gmail.com> on Friday July 25, 2003 @02:06PM (#6533891) Journal
    Bruce,

    I think that the opening section of your draft strategy is the best summary of the current state of the world of open-source/closed-source detente. It's exactly right that proprietary solutions are failing, and will fail with increasing rates, as open source proliferates and hardware increasingly becomes a commodity.

    I have two issues with the summary. The first is that it a strategy should be a long-term document, something that might be as valid five or ten years from now as it is today (this compares to a tactical position.) I don't think that the current stated strategy, while appropriate to this time of flux, will be appropriate then.

    Second, I just have a issue with the 'Sorry Vendors' line at the end of the first section -- everything else in the document is straightforward, concise, and emotion-free.

    thad
  • An important issue...

    My theory is that free software will self-destruct if all programmers lose their jobs. A lot of people who create free software are volunteers. Most of these people have other full-time jobs that pay for their living. My view is that if NO developers were paid for their jobs (doesn't matter what), then the free software movement will collapse. Thes people would instead spend time searching for jobs to make a living.

    What all this means is that what you are saying won't happen (ie. people won't lose jobs). If everyone started losing jobs (I don't think this will happen--other threats like out-sourcing jobs/governments defaulting on debts/currency depreciation/etc will have an impact though), the movement will slow down and die.

    To answer your question, the free software environment will exist forever--or at least as long as the programming profession exists. What I said mainly applies to free software; open-source software, on the other hand, is a slightly different matter.

    KoalaBear33
  • by kmak ( 692406 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @02:19PM (#6534016)
    Maybe... but it still remains to be seen if Open Source can generate enough revenue for the developers after reaching critical mass...
  • by Jameth ( 664111 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @02:27PM (#6534068)
    I would say it is definitely the only threat. Now, it might not be the only threat to open source expanding further, but open source has gone this far with only what it has, and a strong legal suit is the only thing that can make it backtrack.

    Worries about open source being profitable forget that open source lasted plenty long without profitability.
  • by G3ckoG33k ( 647276 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @02:29PM (#6534076)
    To me these issues are quite complex, and a draft like this need a follow up here at Slashdot soonish. Perhaps within a week to get a good brainstorming settle.

    Unfortunately all good remarks will come very late to this message, when people have had time to read it carefully. Then, there are already more than 500 comments, of less value and people don't really care any longer.

    My suggestion, in cases like these, would be to use the Slashdot forum as a forum with delay - as is done before an upcoming interview. A short notice in advance and a more indepth follow later. Let people have a few days to think it over and get a refreshener then. Perhaps overdoing it? Whatever.
  • by pjack76 ( 682382 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @02:32PM (#6534102)
    Well, yes, there's that. :) Although I guess I should add to my prior post that I do spend a lot of time adding features to our in-house systems (so that, for instance, you can submit Expense Payment Requests via the web intranet thingy and they get imported into the vendor's accounting system).

    So it seems to me that adding features to, say, Open Office would be part of my job too, were we only using it. The process would be something like, "Oh shoot, you can't paste tab-delimited text into Calc, I wonder if anyone's working on this...oh look, someone is...I wonder if I can help..."

    Still, I suppose that there would need to be organizations such as Apache, Mozilla etc that support initial development efforts. But surely these could be nonprofits like they are now?

  • I don't disagree with you. Chances are that this type of development will shrink as open source software replaces proprietary software. It will shrink, but it won't die away. Companies that make their living off of selling systems (IBM) or hardware (Intel) will continue to fund open-source develeopment.
  • You are assuming that most software jobs are related to retail software. The fact is that most software is not written to make money, it's written to achieve some internal purpose for a company. These companies could participate in Open Source collaborations and get more and better software for their programmer dollar. Their need for software will never disappear.

    Bruce

  • by atripp ( 104393 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @03:50PM (#6534783)
    The key section is titled "Is Open Source Good for All of Our Members?", and from my reading of that
    section, the answer is "no".

    You say how a "nonrivalrous public good" is good
    for the general population, but generally bad for
    vendors. Well, the Open Group members are those
    vendors, they are not the "general population"
    or even "users".

    You talk about reduced vendor margins and how vendors
    must shift to services and make other "uncomfortable changes". But you never make any case
    that Open Source is good for vendors. In fact,
    you seem to be saying that it is *not* good for vendors.

    You talk about HP's 40% profit margin and say that
    those good times are over. That may be good for
    consumers and the industry overall, but it certainly isn't good for HP.

    If you really think that Open Source is good for
    HP, Sun, IBM, and the others, then you need to
    spell out the reasons much more clearly and
    concisely. That section right now sounds like you're
    saying "Open Source isn't as bad for us as you might think".

    Andy
  • not even close (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 25, 2003 @03:53PM (#6534816)
    Discriminating against bad code for demonstratably valid reasons is not equivalent to descriminating against people based on arbitrary social standards.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:10PM (#6534977)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by greed ( 112493 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:17PM (#6535043)
    APIs that anybody could implement

    Anybody that could afford the API document could implement. Years ago when I wanted to know what POSIX really said, I just couldn't afford a copy. And I couldn't justify it to get the company to spring for it either. So I got an O'Reilly book instead.

    Mind you, this is exactly why a famous "POSIX work-alike" system is able to do exactly that. Get a copy of the spec, start coding.

  • by Ilan Volow ( 539597 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @04:59PM (#6535465) Homepage
    The reason why Open Source user interfaces are so bad is because the entire Open Source movement is engineer-centric, and most engineers (especially Open Source ones) are incredibly clueless when it comes to understanding and being empathic with the non-technical users who are using their software.

    For years people in the HCI field been screaming at open source engineers to design the UI before the code is written, because there are things that pop up in the UI design process that have lower-level ramifications that engineers don't usually consider when they go the code-first approach. If these issues aren't taken care of immediately and much code is written, the engineers will be loathe to change something just because it makes the software more usable, and the result is that you've got usability problems that take years to fix (if they ever are).

    The response we typically get when we tell the engineers they need to come up with the user interaction before major code is written: "You obviously don't understand the Open Source method".

    While I am all for OSS, I fail to see how giving engineers even more power will make the situation any better.
  • Re:Bruce's Spin (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Xtifr ( 1323 ) on Friday July 25, 2003 @05:46PM (#6535825) Homepage
    i would say that open code that must remain open is less open.

    I would say that people who can't enslave and torture their neighbors are less free than people who can. :)

    Freedom is inherently paradoxical -- if you have the freedom to lose your freedom, then you're potentially not free (once you lose your freedom), but if you don't have the freedom to lose your freedom, then that's clearly a freedom you don't have, so you're not absolutely free. Or to put it another way, you can't have both the freedom to swing your fist wherever you like and the freedom to have an unbroken nose. (Unless you're the only one with freedom -- but we usually call that situation "dictatorship").

    Anyway, I'm not going to get into the GPL is/isn't "truly" free. I'm just pointing out that absolute freedom is a myth, so any argument that relies on ideals of absolute freedom is flawed. Beyond a certain point (and I think the GPL is well within those bounds), I think it's all good, and I really don't care. I'm able to sympathize with both the BSDL advocates and the GPL advocates without necessarily agreeing with either side. And that's because I have the freedom to form my own opinions, or even reserve judgement, if I want. :)

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