In-Dash DIN-form-factor Car PC

kraksmokr writes "Xenarc Technologies have introduced a cool new in-dash DIN-form-factor Car PC. It features built in hard drive, audio/video, and GPS, among other things. Estimated price will be about $1200. I can't even begin to list the possibilities for mobile computing bliss." I'm even more impressed that they can fit it into the dash than I am with in-dash CD changers. If you buy this thing, use it safely. None of us want auto PC users to end up in the same category as annoying cell phone users.

interface, interface, interface

[RMH101]

this is all very well but is a pc what you want in your car? keyboard, mouse, tiny icons due to running on a small LCD? unless someone's released "Windows XP Car edition" or similar I really don't see this as all that useful - compared to say a navigation unit and an in car MP3 player. Or a PDA based system that has an OS that's in ROM and can be
Ubiquitous computing doesn't necesarily mean a *PC* is the best tool for the job. I don't fancy driving into the back of someone because I was trying to click on the MSN messenger icon...

Re:Great..

[luzrek]

Turns out that in order to pack a computer into a very small space you really need to worry about heat. This is why most notebook computers (which are larger than this case, and other very small cases) run much slower than their desktop equivalents, for instance I think that the Centrino package from Intel starts witha 1.2 GHz processor (low end), and that is a brand new product. Anyway, the low power consumption chips are from Transmeta (I think 933MHz at 6 Watts) and VIA (Eden at 600Mhz at 6 Watts, C3 1GHz at 10 Watts?). Using said chips gets you away from the need for Fans (useful for computers in living rooms) and that lets you goto small form factors.

For more information check out mini-itx [mini-itx.com] or the super small case offerings of casetronic or Morex. Both of Casetronic and Morex make at least one case that has the same physical dimensions as a car stereo. Keep in mind these cases typically require the 2.5" hard drives and "slim" CD/CDRW/DVD drives which drives up the overall cost of the system and limits performance.

Re:interface, interface, interface

[grumm3t]

Already done [computerworld.com]

Re:interface, interface, interface

[soliaus]

"Windows XP Car edition"

Linux has been in this market for years. It all started with the embedded systems kernel. This is why Linux is so remarkable, because it has done many things it was not originally intended to do, and excelled at them through the genius of open source programmers. Linux could be comparable to *o*r*g, a custom OS with its own kernel a friend built. The point is, you have never heard of it. The same was at one time true for linux, and look at it now.

Html is fun. So is the ctrl-alt-del sequence

Poorly designed power supply

[ortholattice]

The input rating of 10V to 26V may cause the computer to die when starting the engine, so don't depend on this to run anything critical. Do these guys even understand car battery specs? A good design should work at least down to 7.2V [familycar.com]: "Today's batteries are rated in cold cranking amps. This represents the current that the battery can produce for 30 seconds at 0 degrees before the battery voltage drops below 7.2 volts." Better designs such as the power supply in this ECU device [wolfems.com.au] will work down to 6.5V.

This design error seems to be common. Out of three laptop 12V adapters I've purchased, only one worked with an old battery (that was still good enough to start the car). The worst is my most recent Xtend PowerXtender, which is rated 12-16V and often refuses to work unless the engine is running - very annoying when I'm waiting in the car and want to use my laptop.

Why you would a PC in your car.

[Surak]

With wireless networking and PalmVNC, you could operate the in-dash computer via a PalmOS-compatible PDA. Imagine that this thing could be very powerful as a combination MP3 jukebox, satnav device, PVR -- toss a 7" monitor in the back seat of a SUV or minivan, which some manufacturers are starting to add in their luxury models, great for the kids -- and with USB ports, the thing could be useful to store files for your digital camera. Sure, some of these things (satnav/gps, MP3 playing) can be done by a PDA, but you're limited by the memory you can stuff into the PDA. A full PC, OTOH, can have hundreds of megs of RAM and hundreds of gigabytes of hard drive storage. That, and the fact that you can combine all those devices into one is going to save you space.

That's why you'd want a PC in your car.

Re:Dead hard drive?

[TheTimoo]

Seagate Model St3I 44A (at least 10 years old. dunno how big, it made funny sounds when I connected it) :

Product warranty will be void if label or top cover is removed or if the drive experiences shocks in excess of 75 G's.

should be pretty safe, or else your driving style needs serious improvement *g*
OTOH maybe I just don't know about car physics

Re:Great..

[arivanov]

Yep. Especially in the days of Via Centaur this device is outright stupid. Using components from www.linitx.com I can rig the same thing for around 600$ assuming that 260$ will go for a motorolla GPS to hook up to the serial port.

HD in cars

[wowbagger]

I've had a Neo35 with a 30G drive in my car for several years now, with no problems - and the Neo is CONSTANTLY accessing the drive - it doesn't really cache the data very well, and it uses the drive instead of NVRAM to store where it is in playing the song. I frequently run over dirt roads and potholes. My Neo does quite a bit better than my old CD changer, which would spaz whenever I hit a particularly bad washboard or pothole.

You must remember that what will kill the drive is a sudden, high-G shock. Now, your car is a large mass suspended in a shock-absorbing system (your tires and shocks (unless you are a ricer, in which case you remove the shocks and wrap rubber bands around your bling-bling wheelrims)). So any sudden, sharp shock your tires hit will be turned into a longer, less sharp shock by the time it reaches the hard disk.

Re:Page not done by a sales expert

[mattbee]

It was Adam Osborne [wikipedia.org] who suggested the Osborne 1, their current model, was pedestrian compared to what they had in development. Their inventory piled up as everyone waited for the successor and the company ran out of money. He died not very long ago in fact.

Re:$1200?

[GlassUser]

There's a hefty amount of profit in there too. I'm building one of my own. The cost breakdown is about as such:
EPIA M10000 mobo: $175
80 gb slim hd: $200
512 mb pc2100 ddr sdram: $80
slim slot loading dvdrom: $40 (used, I can't find a new one)
ATX DC power supply: $35
Assorted cabling and casing: $50
Front mount LCD panel: $70

About $650 total. You can add a GPS for $100, wireless networking for $50, a regular VGA screen from $250, or a VGA touchscreen for $550.

Re:looks great but..

[GlassUser]

Because they're expensive and damn hard to find.

Why *I* might want it

[BLKMGK]

I run an aftermarket ECU in my car. I spend a great deal of time tuning and monitoring what's going on in my car - doing this with a laptop in the passenger seat SUX and also requires too much of my attention. I'm often reduced to datalogging and then perusing the logs to see what went on. This particular ECU, made by AEM, also allows me to create CUSTOM DASHBOARDS. I can create all sorts of nifty graphic gauges to monitor any of about 100+ different things going on with the car. Again, displaying these on the laptop SUX.

I have a mostly empty DIN slot in my dash with an Alpine MP3 player above it. This box is indeed attractive but the CPU a tad slow. Their other machine is MUCH more interesting to me, faster too. However the big problem is still the darned display. Flip out LCDs can be a PITA - they get in the way of other important controls. While I could certainly use a box like this in my case, to monitor things if nothing else, placing a display somewhere that wouldn't be in the way is still the biggest problem. The only really good space I've got in my car is over the passenger side airbag which is both too far away and is a safety device I'd prefer to retain.

I guess we'll see - I'm looking hard at their other box but I'm just not sure abou the display. Their displays cost BIG bux too - ouchie! I could care less about playing DVDs in the car (helloo, I'm DRIVING) and I've already got an MP3 player. Just something to dislpay ECU parameters and record data would be way cool.

Oh, and in my particular case Windows is a must as this software I need to run only runs on WIN32 platforms. .

P.S. Anyone know how this thing acts when power is removed? Does it send a signal to the OS or must we remember to shut it down each time as well as turn it on? That would kind of suck...