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Dutch Experimental IPv6 MP3 Stream Relay 167

Posted by timothy
from the semi-practical-application dept.
Remco den Besten writes "In order to promote the IPv6 protocol, some Dutch enthousiasts deploy an IPv6 MP3 stream relay server. So, do something different with your IPv6 connectivity and listen to the streams offered! See & listen (both IPv4 and IPv6)."
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Dutch Experimental IPv6 MP3 Stream Relay

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  • by Mopatop (690958) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @06:54PM (#6487305) Homepage
    ...by supplying an IPv4 stream as well, because we acknowledge it's a lot of hassle for people to use IPv6! Genius!
  • What is the purpose for it?
    • by Mopatop (690958) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @06:56PM (#6487316) Homepage
      Because we're gonna run out of IPv4 address, and port forwarding is very annoying. IPv6 is the future, but it's just not gonna work if we leave it up to the users to do something about it.
      • How will they handle transition with IPv4 ?
        • by Anonymous Coward
          Beginning in the second quarter of 2004, all IPv4 sites will be shut down and upgraded to IPv6. The plan is to do everything on the first day of that quarter.
        • So this is a pretty good question really. I would presume, rather than what our AC friend is thinking - with everyone switching over at the start of Q2 2004. I think that some sights and services are rolling over to it now (as a test), and as time goes on, more and more IPv4 IPs will be moved over to IPv6.

          Now, I have a couple of questions about IPv6 that I haven't been able to find answers to. Will they be able to flash the hardware in NICs/Routers to support IPv6 or will existing hardware have to be re
          • NIC's don't deal with IP, they work with ethernet (yes, it's a protocol) at the MAC address level, so they will be fine. As will your hub's and switches at home. Routers are where the problems will be. But the OS on most routers is upgradable, so I believe this should be doable for the most part. Some older routers may have issues. YMMV.
    • by khuber (5664) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:57PM (#6487608)
      v4 has a bug. Upgrade to v6. v5 was out last week but they had to take it down when they found a security problem.
  • Lol ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SuperDuG (134989) <be @ e c l ec.tk> on Sunday July 20, 2003 @06:57PM (#6487319) Homepage Journal
    I'm sure this will be the main selling point.

    IT_GUY to Boss: "Sir I believe its time we began supporting IPv6"

    Boss: "And what are the benifits?"

    IT_GUY: "More IP's better system etc."

    Boss: "What about MP3 Streaming, does it have that?"

    IT_GUY: "Why yes it does sir."

    Boss: "Well then load it up!"

    Ahh if only pretty music and pictures were the key components of Open Source software, would make convincing implementation so much easier.

    "Look at all these benchmarks"..."ohhh pretty colors, we'll buy it!!"

    • Re:Lol ... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by BabyDave (575083)

      What we should do is tell 'Boss' that MP3s sound better if we stream them over IPv6. Hey, we could take it even further and claim that it improves the quality of images, video streams, and also makes pr0n stars look hotter!

      • Did you hear that HDTV is an area where Pr0n _isn't_ leading the field?

        Evidently you can see too much detail. :O

        • by Anonymous Coward
          I know you were joking, but apparently this is kind of a problem for TV actors. Some shows that now shoot in HDTV, the actors don't like it because you can see too much detail, ie. flaws in their appearance, things makeup doesn't cover enough for such a high resolution. Supposedly once they get the hang of lighting things differently for HDTV, they should be able to go around the problem.

          Can you imagine people watching "Friends" and realizing 'Hey... Wait a second, Poebe looks like she's 73 years old!'
      • But, beer does all this and you don't even need to reconfigure your entire network.
      • Man, I can't wait for Simon to hear about this...
    • Re:Lol ... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dog and Pony (521538) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:15PM (#6487411)
      "ohhh pretty colors, we'll buy it!!"

      In my experience, that is how bosses make buying descisions...

      As well as the average Joe, just today, after recommening an acquintance several Linux distros (he is looking to try it, out of interest), he asked: "What about Lindows? Look how good this looks!" and gave this link to a *really* silly flash commercial: http://images.lindows.com/closed/LindowsRock.html [lindows.com].

      Look and learn folks! This is apparently how you get users... sigh.

      • Not sure what's worse - that ad or that it started giving me ideas of what I can do next time I want something approved by the boss man.
      • It critises M$ and makes fun of Bill Gates, what could any self respecting slashdotter have against it ?
  • Uh, but? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Realistic_Dragon (655151) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @06:57PM (#6487325) Homepage
    Will this be the first IPv6 service to be shut down by the RIAA?
  • Once again, they do something *right*.
  • But who actually listens to MP3 streams anyway?

    There must be thousands of wannabe dj's for every listener. If they're automated streams, then what's the point if it isn't something really special (like Spamradio [spamradio.org] or Nectarine [scenemusic.net]).

    Are there any technical benefits by using IPv6 over IPv4 btw? Something about frame sizes or something?

    • by irc.goatse.cx troll (593289) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:25PM (#6487464) Journal
      The point is you can listen to it without wasting disk space. Also turns you on to new music you otherwise wouldnt know about. I dont listen to traditional radio, nor do I watch mtv -- The only way I can learn about new music is streams and word of mouth.

      Listening to a good stream has a much better flow to -- Random mp3s jump from song to song, but a good stream is setup more like a good radiostation, where songs flow together rather than jumping from an aggressive song to some slow ballad
      • That's all well and good if you have your playlist shuffled, but I organise my songs by artist and album, so each one flows into each other very well... a damnsight more than most radio we get in the UK anyway.

        However, I agree that streams have their place.
      • Also you can listen to it legally whether the station you are listening to is legal or not.. They are the ones that have to pay the royalties.

        It's a good option if your workplace doesn't allow hordes of MP3's on their workstations.
      • by MyHair (589485)
        MTV quit playing music years ago.
      • Also turns you on to new music you otherwise wouldnt know about.

        This is one of the best reasons!! With internet streaming radio, you usually get the track title and artist. A quick trip to AllMusic [allmusic.com], then you can see if you are interested in getting more tracks.

        A large percentage of the music I listen to came to me this way.

    • Well, I think the main benefit to applications like this of IPv6 will be the multicasting support.

      Sure, multicasting is also available in IPv4 via IGMP, but I highly suspect that it won't really get used too much until IPv6 is the norm.

    • I don't know which streams I dislike more, some guy's mp3 collection set on 'random', or DJs who couldn't even get on college radio and substitute with an mp3 stream, complete with irritating interstitial ads, voiceovers, and talking during the beginnings and ends of songs.

      Both of these are the reason I quit listening to shoutcast.com a few years ago. Looking at their page now, they still only have 10,000 users total. I used to run a great stream..."All Aphex Twin, All the Time"...nothing but one artist

      • Dear Sir,
        After reading your recent /. post, I'm sorry to inform you that you've forfeited your rights to bitch about any of the following topics:
        - Consolidation of ownership of radio stations
        - Consolidation of news media into the hands of a few powerful corporations
        - How much talk radio sucks
        - Consolidation of popular music into a few "blockbuster" boy bands / half-naked babes
        - How much it sucks that the RIAA controls music distribution
        - Payola
        etc.

        Sorry you don't love Shoutcast but part of the reason that
    • The "technical benefit" of using an IPv6 relay is that it can be combined with IPv4/IPv6 relays to make a path more difficult to trace.

      I'm actually relived that the first use of this appears to be merely stealing music as opposed to sending spam.

  • Lovely... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by mgcsinc (681597)
    to see an honest admission of what people really are using the internet for and see it's early implementation with IPv6... This will convince an interminable number of those who were sceptics for the sake of being so...
  • Oh great (Score:3, Funny)

    by reynaert (264437) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:05PM (#6487365)
    Lots and lots of dance and similar junk. I think I'm staying away from IPv6 for a while.
    • who cares what the format is? It's a viable application. The implementers are probably just dance-music enthusiasts, is all...i can think of worse music to stream...

    • Re:Oh great (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Lots and lots of dance and similar junk. I think I'm staying away from IPv6 for a while."

      You can always request that they stream other stations. I personally am considering asking them to restream Radio Heart [radioheart.com] which is a radio station that plays all kinds of stuff. And I mean ALL kinds of stuff. Check it out.

  • First time! (Score:5, Funny)

    by AmoebafromSweden (112178) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:17PM (#6487428) Homepage
    This is the furst guy to do something like this with IPv6.

    I guess he is also the first IPv6 user that will be sued by the RIAA.
    • I guess he is also the first IPv6 user that will be sued by the RIAA.

      Until the RIAA realizes all the mp3's being streamed are made by foreign techno artists that they can't pronounce the names of!
    • Re:First time! (Score:2, Informative)

      by Wibla (677432)
      not exactly, a mate of mine has been running a little streaming of his own using icecast2 and ogg vorbis via ipv6 for a while..
      http://www.miro.no/stream/
  • MP3--yuck! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Thinkit3 (671998) *
    A patent-encumbered lossy audio compression scheme. I cringe every time I hear it. Why couldn't it be flac streaming?
    • You're kidding, right?

      Ogg vorbis is the way forwards. Incidentally, this claims to be Icecast6 - I thought Icecast was ogg streaming?
      • by Thinkit3 (671998) *
        FLAC is patent-free just like ogg, but it is lossless compression. How about I use a lossy compression on your OS, hmm???
        • Re:flac (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Mopatop (690958)
          Yeah I know what FLAC is, but streamed? I mean, first you have the issue of encoding flac in realtime, but the bitrate on flac is far too high for most connections. Also the entire point of icecast and shoutcast is they scale to slow and fast connections pretty much transparently.
          • Re:flac (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Fweeky (41046) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @08:55PM (#6487882) Homepage
            Yeah I know what FLAC is, but streamed? I mean, first you have the issue of encoding flac in realtime,

            Erm, FLAC is rather fast at encoding, provided you stick to the more sane settings and avoid --super-secret-totally-impractical-compression-lev el (yes, that is a real setting).
            but the bitrate on flac is far too high for most connections.

            It's fine for LAN situations; fileserver under stairs, player under TV, stream over network. The sort of people who would do something like this are precisely the sort of user who would appreciate lossless compression.
    • >I cringe every time I hear it.
      Well then you need to relax. MP3 isn't the antichrist. Yeah, Ogg would be nicer, but it's better to have these guys pushing IPv6 and figuring out what the hurdles are than it would be to sit around saying "gosh we can't launch until we've made sure that we're doing it in the most perfect idealistic way, otherwise /. will get mad at us."

  • Thank you (Score:4, Funny)

    by omar.sahal (687649) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:19PM (#6487437) Homepage Journal
    All the site admins need to encourage IPv6 use! a good slashdoting


    Not a troll
  • by Capt'n Hector (650760) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:19PM (#6487438)
    Wow, IPv6 really made those mp3s sound better. It was almost as if I were there!
  • IPv666 (Score:5, Funny)

    by eskimoboy (690127) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:22PM (#6487447) Homepage
    This just in: RIAA uses the DMCA to shut down all IPv6 services, claiming they have the potential to distribute illegal MP3s.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:39PM (#6487535)
    There is a working M$ v6 kit now

    now.. no one has any excuse not to use it..

    Windows 2000 IPv6 Kit [microsoft.com]

    Win XP IPv6 HOW-TO [microsoft.com]
    • I think that's overstating the matter somewhat.. the Windows 2000 patch only works on Service Pack one. Not two or three.

      There's at least one excuse not to use it.

    • This is a technology preview of IPv6 for Windows 2000. It is not a production quality implementation and should only be used for research or testing. It is not intended for production use.

      Are they talking about the IPv6 stack or Windows 2000?
  • by teklob (650327)
    The government is backing IPv6 now, remember? [slashdot.org]
  • RIAA in IPv6? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by kyoko21 (198413) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @07:49PM (#6487572)
    It's great that they are now streaming in IPv6. I wonder when RIAA will track them down and force them to pay the royalties on the audio streams they are providing. Perhaps people will start migrating p2p applications to IPv6 so at least for the time being, RIAA will be behind the times. When RIAA catches up, just move the application to the new experimental IP stack. Welcome to the new cat-and-mouse game.
    • Re:RIAA in IPv6? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Mopatop (690958)
      Worse.

      You use KaZaA on your university's connection, they can track it all to your uni, and that's where it stops.

      You use KaZaA with IPv6 on your uni's connection, and they can track it straight to your computer.
      • You use KaZaA with IPv6 on your uni's connection, and they can track it straight to your computer.

        There are an awful lot of addresses per subnet to pick from - how will they track it to yours?

    • Re:RIAA in IPv6? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by EpsCylonB (307640) <eps@NOSPAm.epscylonb.com> on Sunday July 20, 2003 @08:23PM (#6487703) Homepage
      Q. How do I install the IPv6 Protocol for Windows XP or Windows XP with Service Pack 1 (SP1)?

      A.

      To install the IPv6 Protocol for Windows XP:

      1. Log on to the computer running Windows XP with a user account that has privileges to change network configuration.
      2. Open a command prompt. From the Windows XP desktop, click Start, point to Programs, point to Accessories, and then click Command Prompt.
      3. At the command prompt, type:

      ipv6 install


      Wow, it was literally that easy, now what did it actually do ?
  • cure some ignorance (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tomstdenis (446163) <tomstdenisNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Sunday July 20, 2003 @08:20PM (#6487688) Homepage
    Even if I load the ipv6 module in linux and use ipv6 applications. Doesn't my ISP have to route ipv6 packets before I can even use it?

    Tom
    • by Styx (15057) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @08:51PM (#6487863) Homepage
      No, you can do IPv6 tunneling over IPv4. See http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2001/06/01/ipv6 _tutorial.html for instance.
    • by duckstab (680338) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @10:15PM (#6488201)
      Hurricane Electric offers IPv6 tunnels, and will allocate you a /64 block of addresses. The application forms and some excellent tutorial materials can be found at http://ipv6.he.net/
  • Community at work... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by CoolVibe (11466)
    I'm already hacking the FreeBSD xmms port to incorporate ipv6 support (with the help of the implemntation offered). I just looove diff.

    Of course I will be send-pr'ing the thing, so watch your favourite FreeBSD ports mailinglist.

    I'll post it to my website when I have tested it ;)

    • right, I sent out a send-pr with the modified xmms port... Anyone up for hosting the modded ipv6-enabled xmms port? My upstream can't handle slashdotting.

      Drop me a line if you have a little bandwith to spare (although the port files are very small).



  • xmms-ipv6 patched failed for me, as mpg123 latest version failed (wanted to use my v4 to read v6)
    so here is a little trick on how to read the stream:

    use latest mpg123 & an ipv6 enabled lynx:
    lynx -dump http://ipv6.lkml.org:8000/difm | ./mpg123 -v -

    or use latest cvs mpg321 with a read-patch applied (which is in the bug list of sourceforge mpg321 project), else it will read the stream too fast
    and use same kind of command than before
  • How do you say, "What the fuck do you think you're doing" in Dutch?
  • Sigh... (Score:4, Informative)

    by sweet 'n sour (595166) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @09:51PM (#6488114)
    Good... Maybe someone else will have better luck convincing Nullsoft that ipv6 actually IS desired:

    http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=3b5228a9 5119a267d91817195a9ad715&threadid=125475&highlight =ipv6 [winamp.com]

    Btw, same goes for ipv6 support in Mozilla for windows... the *nix versions have had ipv6 support for a while now, right?
    Are there any other ipv6 alternatives for windows? IE and Windows Media Player both have ipv6 support for win2k sp3 and up as well as XP, but I'd rather not use those if possible.
  • How about multicast? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by -tji (139690) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @10:08PM (#6488176) Journal
    If you're going to push for a major networking change with streaming media, go for multicast instead. It has a huge direct benefit for streaming media.. The stream source would only need bandwidth for one stream, not one stream multiplied by the number of listeners.
    • Guess what one of the advantages of v6 is over v4.

    • > Guess what one of the advantages of v6 is over v4.

      I assume, based on the context, you are saying that multicast is somehow better/easier in IPv6. Can you expand on why that is?

      As far as I can see, the challenge is getting ISP's to support multicast routing protocols, and getting them to cooperate and support multicast routing to/from other ISP's. Is that significantly different in IPv6 than in IPv4?

    • MOD PARENT UP!!

      I've been screaming about this for a while. Multicast is such a simple solution its a no-brainer. Like IPSEC, Multicast should (if it's not already) be a mandatory part of IPv6.

      It's just ridiculous that to broadcast the SAME EXACT 128k stream to 100,000 people, you need over 100Mbit of bandwidth...

      What multicast allows a single stream to be sent to multiple destinations but the splits only occur AT the routers closest to the listeners. A multicast router will simply mirror the traffic to a
  • It seem trivial to implement P2P radio. If you send out just 2 streams, and every listener resends the stream to just 2 guys, you can reach 2046 listeners with just 10 hops.
    • I was thinking about this the other night... I have been doing some coding about this to figure out how viable.

      It is pretty easy to do, you just need the protocol to tell the listener where to pick up the stream from and what to do when it gets disconnected

  • by fuali (546548) on Sunday July 20, 2003 @11:16PM (#6488460) Homepage
    It really cracks me up that this is a site to promote stuff. With its lack of design, poor English (yes I know they are Dutch), and tech talk, it is only preaching to the choir.

    The problem with IPv6, and for that matter just about any open-source project, is not that it lacks the marketing budget, it's that it's promoted by pale faced geeks that don't know or care about the rest of the world thinks.

    Well without the "outside world's" approval nothing will happen. IPv6 is dead in the water unless one of the following to things happens.

    1) The transition from IPv4 to IPv6 is completely transparent. If a user has any compatibility problems or has to type anything into a command line forget it. If you have to rely on the public to actually learn something and do it, game over.

    2) Every manufacturer of software and hardware will have to plan the obsolescence of IPv4. Like they are trying to do with HDTV, What they did with Vinyl LP's and Eight Tracks. This will take years, and when they finally have it, it too will be obsolete.
    • Okay, thank you for pointing out the obvious. If you know what we need to do to promote it outside of the geek scope why don't you help out or give some advice instead of just whining about it...

      This is not meant to insult you. Just that i am sick of all those people calling any kind of project a failure because it doesn't cater to the right people but do not want to change a thing about it.

      Please, put up or shut up.

      As for your other comments, yes, you're right. IPv4 to IPv6 transition will only be succe
  • by Sesse (5616) *

    Is this supposed to be something new? I remember seeing IPv6 MP3 streams (and later IPv6 Vorbis streams) a year or so ago, and I'd guess they weren't new even then.

    To me, this sounds more like "hey, let's set up an IPv6 relay to promote our stream, perhaps we can even get a Slashdot post". It's not like IPv6 hasn't been a part of Icecast2 for a while now ;-)

    /* Steinar */

  • by riflemann (190895) <riflemann@bb.cTE ... t minus caffeine> on Monday July 21, 2003 @04:36AM (#6489203)
    I've also hacked my own copy of icecast2 to accept connections over IPv6, and now listen to TripleJ [abc.net.au] and various other Sydney-based radio stations regularly online.

    Just playing my part to support the adoption of IPv6..

    My IPv6 Ogg Vorbis stream [cactii.net] keeps me sane!

    Or for those without AAAA DNS working:

    http://[2001:618:400::cb12:26db]:8000/live.ogg

    Slashcode doesnt support IPv6 html links it seems :(

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