Senator Orrin Hatch a Pirate?

Stigmata669 writes "Remember a few days ago when Senator Orrin Hatch decided that software piracy was punishable by destruction of computers? Well a bored and unemployed Sys. Admin in Houston smelled a rat when he was rooting through Hatch's website source. As it turns out Sen. Hatch is a common software pirate himself."

there's a much easier way to do it

[Capt'n Hector]

it's a lot easier and software-licence free to do it using css. All you need to do is hide the html part of each menu, and when the menu title is moused-over, the css, and something like two lines of JavaScript, will display the menu. No muss, no fuss.

Re:there's a much easier way to do it

[GreyPoopon]

it's a lot easier and software-licence free to do it using css.

And it only works with CSS1-compliant browsers. This is not a limitation you want when you're trying to convice everybody in John Q. Public that your warped ideas are actually good ones.

Having said that, I think with some work you can get the CSS menus to at least show up as nested lists on non-compliant browsers.

American Heritage 2000 (dictionary.com)

[Adam9]

piÂrate
n.

1.
1. One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.
2. A ship used for this purpose.
2. One who preys on others; a plunderer.
3. One who makes use of or reproduces the work of another without authorization.
4. One that operates an unlicensed, illegal television or radio station.

What's your point?

Re:Way to advertise yourself Laurence Simon

[endquotedotcom]

Yup. Here's his site [blogmosis.com]. Pretty funny guy.

Re:I live in utah

[sunoxen]

I'm also from Utah, an ardent Democrat, and there's no chance in hell Hatch will be kicked out of office.

The problem is that he already has a ton of power and pull in Washington where seniority rules. He's chairman of the most esteemed committee in Washington, and has blessing from the Church.

The only person that has a shot to beat him is someone like Rocky Anderson, Salt Lake's Mayor, (also featured on Insomniac tonight) and they would make him out to be the next coming of the devil. After all, he's for (shock) environmental concern, and civil liberties! Utah is a recessive state. Or at least for now...

Face it, Utah politics is as complacent as it gets, and probably why Orrin can say this kind of silliness and get away with it.

Re:Sensationalism...

[timeOday]

No, it is not a commercial site. However, the copyright owner still had requirements (registration), which Hatch's staff did not meet. But the fact that registration rather than money was required is immaterial. (If not, the GPL is certainly null and void, since it doesn't require payment either)

Re:Sensationalism...

[sweetooth]

Senator Hatch is selling cds from his site as well. That would make it qualify for commercial uses and require a $900 registration fee as well. So, based on those criteria the maintainers of his site are the pirates. However, if you follow what the BSA says about software "theft" the senator is actually responsible for the actions of the people hired to do the work for him, just as a company would be responsible for the actions of thier employees. It remains to be seen if the senator will be allowed to simply use the non profit version or not.

This does damage his stance against copyright violaters as this makes him look very hipocritical. Software piracy is nothing more than copyright violation just as trading music and movies is.

Hmmmm

[chrisgeleven]

When I read about Hatch's little idea, this is what I came up with as responses:

1. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
2. What ever happened to getting a warrant?
3. What ever happened to a fair trial in front of a jury of peers?
4. What ever happened to the government running the police, instead of the corporations.
5. What ever happens when someone at a record label royally screws up and fries the hard drive of someone with legiminate copies of MP3's (say of my band or ripped legally from CD's I own)?

Re:Shiver me timbers!

[andrew_mike]

Plus, knowing Hatch and the rest of them, it would be considered attacking the government, and thus an act of terrorism.

In all fairness....

[Anonymous Coward]

The Milonic DHTML Menu was totally free [archive.org] a little while ago.

For them to change the licensing terms retroactively ( "EVERY copy of our JavaScript menu needs to be licensed" [milonic.co.uk] - are they really insiting that older copies that were downloaded with it was advertised as free now be paid for and/or registered?) seems very shady to me.

They may have fixed the source code...

[angst7]

But a quick look at the Google Cache [google.com] will let you see the original, licence-violating version.

---
Jedimom.com [jedimom.com], leon's getting larger.

Seen on Fark first actually

[Anonymous Coward]

This was linked to off of fark.com yesterday.

Re:I do

[red floyd]

You can remove the tags. They state that they are not to be removed except by consumer.

I called his office to complain

[OYAHHH]

I called Boring Orrin's office to complain and here was the reply I got:

"Senator Hatch's website was created via a third party who was responsible for the problem. The problem has now been corrected."

Those aren't the exact words but they effectively expressed his staffer's opinion.

But what really got me was the fact that the staffer refused to provide Senator Hatch's take on the matter and really seemed quite nonchalant about the whole affair.

I mentioned that I felt that Senator Hatch bears ultimate responsiblity for what is on his website and that I felt like he should own up to it.

Or to, at the very minimum, help pay the litigation costs of the person whose copyrighted material was stolen so that they could sue the crap out of the "third party web designer".

Once again I basically got a shrug type reaction from the staffer.

Those people don't have a clue!

If you want to make a difference, call Hatch's office, complain, then call your Senator's office and request that they punish him. If it's long distance for you then it will be a few bucks for each call but it will be money well spent.

Re:Shiver me timbers! - Mod up

[doublesix]

For the love of god mod this up. I thought he was joking, but it's true! It's true I tell you. http://www.myutahsearch.com/ [myutahsearch.com]

Re:yes, he is a pirate

[kzinti]

seeing as how he's in utah, maybe a butte pirate?

Whatchew talkin' bout, Willis? Butte is in Montana...

Re:I perfer to get my porn from him personally

[Anonymous Coward]

$ whois -h whois.enom.com -H myutahsearch.com
Domain name- myutahsearch.com

Nameservers-
ns.10k.net
ns3.10k.net

Start of registration- 05/14/03 00:00:00
Registered through- 05/14/04 00:00:00

Registrant Contact-
quicknet
tim bach ([e-mail])
860-230-8010
FAX- 860-230-8010
320 chestnut
new britain, CT 06051
US

Administrative Contact-
quicknet
tim bach ([e-mail])
860-230-8010
FAX- 860-230-8010
320 chestnut
new britain, CT 06051
US

Billing Contact-
quicknet
tim bach ([e-mail])
860-230-8010
FAX- 860-230-8010
320 chestnut
new britain, CT 06051
US

Technical Contact-
quicknet
tim bach ([e-mail])
860-230-8010
FAX- 860-230-8010
320 chestnut
new britain, CT 06051
US

Status: ACTIVE
Note: To help prevent fraudulent or erroneous
transfers, we encourage registrants to place their domains on "lock"
status with their current registrar.

Re:excuse my naiveity

[damiam]

Sometimes. It's of course possible to reformat the harddrive. In some cases, it's possible to screw up the BIOS to the point where the computer won't boot. In rarer cases, it's possible to change BIOS settings to run components out of spec (overclock the proc and disabling the fans, for example) enough to actually damage the hardware. Of course, this would only work in some rare cases when the user was running with full Administrator privledges, and it'd be hard to write a single tool that would fuck up a diverse set of computers. In any case, if the RIAA did create such a tool, the antivirus companies would probably be all over it.

Re:Even better...

[heli0]

Bwahaha. The domain registration expired last month and some pr0n site snatched it up and pointed it to their site.

Re:I live in utah

[sunoxen]

I was making an implication, not an assertion of truth. Are you telling me that the Church supports a pro-choice, civil libertarian agenda? Please...

Although they don't give official support in a press release, doesn't mean that they don't have a pull in Utah politics.

You obviously don't understand the political context of this state, which has had a religious element from the very beginning. After all, Brigham Young was a first elected governor of Utah with close to Saddam-like 96% (or so) of the populace.

So religion has everything to do with it. Guess who's going to be picking our pro-life judges and anti-consumerist judges. Our friend Orrin. And the church has supported campaigns against gay-marriage in Vermont and Hawaii. So you can blow it out your own naiveté.

As soon as the church gives money to a cause outside of its dogma, we'll talk.

reelection rates

[Anonymous Coward]

Orrin is of course in the Senate and not the House. However the point of legislative job security is well taken. Reelection rates of incumbents in both bodies of Congress in recent years are as follows:

Year / House of Representatives / Senate

1998 / 98% / 90%

2000 / 98% / 79%

2002 / 98% / 85%

The more interesting statistic might be what proportion of these folks and their staffs have violated copyright laws. It is probably pretty close to the populace at large.

Re:Sensationalism...

[Quixotic137]

He's not selling CD's from this site. He sells CD's from this site [hatchmusic.com]. Not that this proves that he's actually selling any CD's, just that they're for sale.

Re:Sensationalism...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the developer [milonic.co.uk] whose code he is accused of stealing explicitly prohibits Government/Political organizations from qualifying for a free license:

Note that Intranets of any description and Government/Political bodies will need to purchase, we cannot provide free license for these installations.

What about his CD cover?

[bkocik]

Earlier today I was reading through the comments from the previous story about Senator Hatch, and someone mentioned his site, hatchmusic.com. I went and looked to see what kind of music he writes.

Check out this link: http://www.hatchmusic.com/songs.html [hatchmusic.com]

See the second CD from the bottom of the page, "Many Different Roads"? I thought the cover art looked awfully familiar. Turns out I have a copy of that rose picture on my hard drive from years ago. It's all over the web, and can be found via Google image search [google.com].

I don't know the history of that particular image or who owns the copyright to it, but I can't help but wonder if the good senator bothered to find out...

Re:Want another highlight?

[shadowbearer]

MHO:

Parent should not be flamebait. The site he points out has existed for quite a while, and points out a lot of inconsistencies (which are also demonstrated by Democrats, Libertarians, and lots of other people in the political world).

We all know what idiots politicians can be. Flamebait? I think not. Interesting might work better. Besides, doesn't Hatch deserve a nomination for his recent idiocy? I don't care what your affiliation is, suggesting that corporations be allowed to destroy people's computers is the lowest of the low.

SB

Re:If you think that's bad...

[Neolithic]

Google Cache [216.239.37.100] as it seems the link has been taken off.

Direct link [senate.gov]. NOT SAFE FOR WORK as the link automatically redirects to a porn site.

Re:Shiver me timbers!

[tinrobot]

The page has already been changed, but google still has the cache [216.239.51.100]

Grab it while you can!

Re:If you think that's bad...

[_xeno_]

Hmm... it would appear that Orrin Hatch got bit by not regularly checking links. Sounds like some porn company snapped up a defunct domain name after the original company, hopefully a search engine, died.

I know the same thing happened to the Linux User Group [wpila.org] I (used to) belong to. Er, that link isn't work safe either - but it is lesbian porn, if that helps.

Kinda a shock the first time I tried to find out when the new meeting times were...

Re:If you think that's bad...

[Catnapster]

Try the Google cache [216.239.37.100]. Scroll down a little, you can't miss it.

That's the funniest thing I've ever seen. Government-sponsored pr0n. I think the sysadmin does read /. and I'm willing to bet he shit himself when the AC up above pointed out that link. Oh, I would have loved to see the look on his face...

Re:Want another highlight?

[MillionthMonkey]

Yeah, it was an idiotic comment by Hatch. The problem here is that people can't handle politicians speaking unless their statements have been filtered by their PR staff. It's people like you (including much of /.) that turn our political system into the bland wasteland of nonsensical terms it is today. If you want to rally against Sen. Hatch, more power to you. But go look at his voting record and platform before making your decision.

HOUSE-PASSAGE OF THE DIGITAL MILLENNIUM COPYRIGHT ACT CONFERENCE REPORT

(Senate - October 12, 1998)

[Page: S12376]

Mr. HATCH. Mr. President, the DMCA is a remarkable bill that is the result of a remarkable process. By enacting this legislation in a timely fashion, the United States has set the marker for the rest of the world with respect to the implementation of the new WIPO treaties. As a result, the United States can look forward to stronger world-wide protection of our intellectual property and a stronger balance of trade as inbound revenues from foreign uses of our intellectual property continue to increase. I am pleased to have been a part of this great effort, and I look forward to the President's signing of H.R. 2281.

Guess he didn't filter that through his PR staff.

Don't bother...

[BattleWolf]

This must have been a hack - it's gone now...

Statement From Milonic

[Draoi]

Here's a statement from Milonic, Ltd [milonic.co.uk], the company that the Senator stole from. Looks like all the fuss is over ....

Statement From Milonic
Re: Website of Senator Orrin Hatch

Milonic Solutions would like to comment of the current situation regarding the website http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/

We have received many emails regarding the implementation of our software and Milonic are pleased to announce that there are no longer any licensing issues with reference to the above website.

Milonic would like to point out that this particular case is in no way unique and that there are many thousands of similar issues with other implementations of our code. Milonic Solutions try to be as fair as possible by offering our code free of charge to certain users but changes to the licensing of Government and/or Political organizations are now necessary.

We have, for some time, been thinking of changing the licensing regarding Government run websites and applications that use our software. The reason for this is due to the administrative overhead we have for issuing free licenses, we can no longer afford to offer free licenses to Government organizations.

We would also like to point out that if you have any questions or concerns about whether you should be obtaining Professional Licenses for our software, then the safest option would be to buy. Once you become a customer you have the protection of being properly licensed and there will be no question as to whether you are using un-licensed software.

Users of our software that are categorized as charities, official non-profit groups, religious groups, state run educational organizations or personal home pages can continue to enjoy our software at no charge.

Milonic Solutions Ltd

Pete C

Re:In all fairness....

[el_nino]

The DHTML menu on the Wayback Machine was version 3.0. The version currently on Hatch's site is 3.3. Just view the source.

If you still had version 3.0 downloaded and licensed to you for free under the previous terms, it would be doubtful if they could retroactively change the licensing terms, but in this case they're offering new software under new licensing terms, and even if you had a license to a previous version of that software that doesn't give you any rights to the new version.

Charges Withdrawn by Javascript Developer

[willutah]

If people would check Milonic's website [milonic.co.uk] before blabbering on slashdot, they will notice that Hatch has resolved this issue:

"We have received many emails regarding the implementation of our software and Milonic are pleased to announce that there are no longer any licensing issues with reference to the above [Orin Hatch] website..."

do as i say, not as i do

[p51d007]

Typical for the congress, dosen't matter if they are democrats or republican 99% of them are the same. It's gotten to the point, they it's a feudilistic (sp) country. We the "little people" are the surfs.....idiots who can't walk and chew gum, and if it wasn't for the kings telling us what to do, we'd all be walking around bumping into everything. They make rules for everyone to follow EXCEPT them! Just look at all the idiots up there complaining about SUV's.......They scream that it's causing global warming, but when they go home, it's in a chauffer driven limosene, or flying home in a private jet, to live in a 40 room mansion that has a 20 car garage. Until this country wakes up, throws ALL of them out, and elects people from "flyover" country, and limits their terms to let say 12 years with NO reelection possibility, it will never change. The lobbyist have their claws well dug into these idiots. It's sad, that 99% of them, have tossed their ethics out the windows for the $$$$ instead.

Re:In his defense

[kindbud]

Let's not turn this into a farce people.

Tell that to Hatch. We're not the ones advocating vigilantism.

Re:I live in utah

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes the Mormons own Utah, I don't know about Canopy, but they were founded by Ray Noorda in 1995. And Ray Noorda is a Mormon [webpipe.net], along with Stephen Covey, Brent Scrowcroft, Alan Ashton, Kevin Rollins (vice-chair Dell), and many others.

One key thing to keep in mind - Orrin Hatch, and many many others in the upper levels of government, are Mormons. Just to be sure everyone is clear on this, MORMONS are NOT Biblical Christians! Born-again, Fundamentalist, or Evangelical Christians agree on Biblical doctrine. Mormons have a completely different definition of God, of Jesus Christ, of Satan, of salvation, of Heaven, and Hell than is contained in the Bible. They believe what their cult founder, Joseph Smith, and subsequent "prophets" have told them. It is frequently contradictory, some would say whacko ("as God once was, we are now; as God now is, we may become").

In other words, Mormonism has used words from Christianity, but not concepts. Sort of like MS calling their lame-o program "shared source" and trying to leverage off the goodwill associated with "open source" as a term.

FYI