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Justin Frankel Resigns From Nullsoft
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Anything to do with Waste... (Score:4, Insightful)
Wonder? When he says, "The company controls what I do with my code [in the past, it seemed I had freedom, but it turns out all of that was not really the case--rather, I was somehow avoiding the control illicitly (for 4 years)]," it becomes rather clear as to exactly what he is talking about.
This has everything to do with WASTE and any other projects that AOL canned.
Long Decline Anyway (Score:2, Insightful)
Good riddance :P (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm glad he's leaving, AOL doesn't need him anyway; after all they have lawyers. Let the lawyers write the code. I'm sure AOL 10.0 will rock the house.
On the other hand this unleashes a creative, boisterous, unwielding and stubborn geek on the world, perhaps even to join the ranks of all those amateur open source hacks. In the end you get AOL run by a squeeky-clean army of professional lawyers and another rogue hacker who acknowledges no ones authority to dictate what he contributes to their quasi-communist "community" of freedom fighters. Altogether I think both sides are getting exactly what they deserve. ;-)
Re:Anything to do with Waste... (Score:3, Insightful)
'99 (Score:5, Insightful)
The dream is still alive people. Demand your fair dues.
__
Cheap web hosting [cheap-web-...ing.com.au] Dragon Action Figures [mibglobal.com.au]
Goodspeed (Score:1, Insightful)
About time... (Score:5, Insightful)
-Eyston
Re:Slashdot won't like this but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Executives don't write software.
He is, at worst, a software programmer who manages a division. In the software world--especially the free software world--keeping a weblog and being honest in it have come to be hallmarks of a professional.
Re:Good riddance :P (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Slashdot won't like this but... (Score:5, Insightful)
When you can afford most of the things you want, why is WASTE so important?
Good for him (Score:5, Insightful)
Non-Free? (Score:5, Insightful)
I never liked it when they proudly boasted that there were NO ADS! and it was FREE!
Re:Anything to do with Waste... (Score:5, Insightful)
Big Duh. (Score:2, Insightful)
Working as a programmer is very, very simple. You work for a company. That company *pays* you to make things. The company owns the things you make.
This isn't even a case of AOL saying it owns something he made and distributed on his spare time. He wrote code and put it up for distribution on a web site owned by his employer, using a brand owned by his employer.
Very simple rule: if you don't want your employer to control your code, don't write the code at work and distribute it via work. If your employer has a ridiculous clause saying they own everything you write in your spare time as well, then either don't write anything for yourself, or find a new job.
Re:One doesn't have to wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't know how serious this may be, but if AOL wanted to, they might be able to sue for loss of IP due to the dumpage of WASTE into the GPL realm. That's the real bitch when you write code for a company. Unless you beg & plead with the lawyers (or your managers) to give you a little freedom, they own your stuff.
And this leads right into non-compete clauses in your contract. Even thinking about the code you wrote for another company could be considered competing against your previous employer.
Re:Good for him (Score:4, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Easy to do when you're rich (Score:2, Insightful)
So, there was no courage involved here as far as I can see.
Re:Long Decline Anyway (Score:1, Insightful)
2) Non-compete clauses generally prevent other companies from employing you, they don't prevent you from doing stuff on your own.
3) loose == not tight (like your sister's vag). lose == not win (like you == loser)
Re:Most Winamp coders left already (Score:3, Insightful)
The compelling desire to express yourself doesn't always end when you make money.
The Nullsoft folks sound like they made money because they had the drive to express themselves in a heartfelt way - resulting in compelling, well written applications.
--Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu
Re:Slashdot won't like this but... (Score:5, Insightful)
You know what, im sick of this 'unprofessional' trash. "Professional" is inhuman. Usually, any act of honesty is described as 'unprofessional' Im tired of my personal relations being filtered through the Blanket-of-Commerce that requires people to be a cog or a tool.
I could care less that a person was 'unprofessional' -- because a person's character is not defined by how well he conforms to his employers view of how best to achieve profit.
Justin has grown tired of being a wage-slave -- so have I.. I just dont have the resources to buy life back from my Corporate Masters just yet...
Re:Good for him (Score:2, Insightful)
Your code is your kids... (Score:5, Insightful)
seriously. Money is great, I like money, it pays the rent and lets me do what i want half the year. But if all I did was "nothing" I would not be happy. Coding makes me happy. I'm sure coding a app like WASTE for Justin made him happy.
I feel there are at minimum two kind of coders out there right now. Type A joined the ranks because they want to make money. They could have easily done something else. Most were drawn into the big bright light of the Internet boom. They want to code from 9 to 5pm, and then be done. They expect to move into mangement at some point, and consider coding a menial task that can be pushed down the ranks.
Type X started coding because someting intially didn't do what they wanted it to do. This led to coding addiction, consuming massive amounts of dry reading material, working crazy hours, but always coming back to the keyboard like the crack head to his pipe. The irony is, in present economy, Type X makes the money, and the Type A is trying to learn another skill, move to project management, go back to school and get a degress in business...etc..etc.
It's his baby. You'll understand if you ever code a baby of your own.
Having said all this, I think I would have fought it out until they fired me. but not knowing his legal/contractual situation resigning may be his best bet.
-malakai
Selective (Score:5, Insightful)
I find it really strange that AOL should pull things like Gnutella and WASTE, considering that Nullsoft's primary product, WinAmp, is perhaps the most frequently used by Joe Internet for playing often illegal MP3s. Admittedly, people can use it for legal music too - but go on, most people don't give a fuck.
Likewise, Gnutella/WASTE could be used for good or evil (in the political sense). What makes them so different from WinAmp? Why is file sharing worse than playing music? Given that they already provide the criminal community (so to speak, I mean - call me a crim) an excellent tool for playing their often illegaly acquired music, as well as to the RIAA-friendly users out there - what makes file sharing so goddamn different?
Re:One doesn't have to wonder... (Score:5, Insightful)
You have to remember that NullSoft is a subsidary of AOL Time Warner. Which probably means that Justin is under contract from Nullsoft and not AOL.
He probably has pretty much all the control over what he can do with what Nullsoft creates. The problem is probably in the contract that binds Nullsoft to AOL. I think that indirectly, Justin's code is owned by AOL, but since Nullsoft is an entity of its own, it can do many things on its own: creating software, releasing code, being a pain for AOL, etc... BUT only to some extent, because Nullsoft is a subsidary of (or controlled by) AOL.
So it's probably not just a matter of a simple contract between an employer and its employees... It goes deeper than that I'm afraid.
Re:Why did this take so long? (Score:5, Insightful)
Last thing we need, another unemployed programmer on the market. Quit in this economy?! The fool.
Nonsense (Score:1, Insightful)
Therefore, it couldn't be produced under the GPL unless AOL said so. Most employment contracts specifically state that any thing or idea created, conceived, developed, etc. while employeed becomes property of the employeer (in this case, AOL/Time Warner)
This is nonsense last time it was said and it's nonsense this time. Who is AOL? Who has to approve? Who fucking cares. An employee working for AOL releases code under the GPL (not talking about things done on his own time) it's under the gpl, he is a representative of the company.
Re:Question about article (Score:3, Insightful)
no brains, that's why. (Score:2, Insightful)
As you noticed, that's really funny. Waste was released GPL [slashdot.org], no? They only hope it does not take off without comercial backing. Soon they shall learn how unimportant they really are. Music, software and all other forms of innovation have no need for big dumb middle men like TIME. So long, greedy grabbers, you sucked while you could.
Re:He hasn't resigned... (Score:1, Insightful)
As as aside ... what the heck is with the crazy fonts on the current Nullsoft [nullsoft.com] page?
It amazes me (Score:5, Insightful)
Frankel sold out to AOL. He made a LOT of money doing it, but he should (and maybe did) understand the price of that money is freedom. AOL controls Winamp, and as long as he's an employee they control much of his actions and ability to publish.
Were I him I would have not published anything new until the contract requirements to stay with the company were over, then I'd leave and start a new company with all the money. I'm sure his share of 86 million, after taxes could start a new company to do new things.
If you value your life based on what you have done, then investors and selling out is often a bad idea. You are selling control over the products you have created. If on the other hand you value your life based on what your able to do going forward, take the 86 million, walk away from one software product and do something new. Sure, it's a PITA, but 86 million funds a lot of new things. If nothing else you could probably manage a half million a year from investment (even in this market) and live off that while writing new software and paying a buddy or two to write with you. There's bound to be a new idea in there somewhere that will start another company that sells for twice as much, which gives you more allowance, and so on.
It's all personal values.
Justin, if you're reading this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh, dont follow you amigo (Score:5, Insightful)
Money has little to do with happiness. Unhappy people are unhappy with or without material possessions in most cases.
The man has chosen a wise path, placing his own life ahead of maximizing financial gain at any cost. I dont know the man, but I would bet he is in a much better position in life now. There is a shortage of people following their own life path in this world, and an oversupply of sheep mindlessly plodding along.
As to saying it is easier because he is wealthy, I disagree. Because he is wealthy, it is EASIER for him to get trapped in a world where only money matters, making the choice more difficult.
Some people would rather... (Score:4, Insightful)
"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" -Patrick Henry
Oh, but this is the modern day United States; we're all supposed to be corporate butt boys and prostitute our lives as wage slaves. All hail the almighty dollar!
Re:queue the llama noises (Score:5, Insightful)
For many years, I have been impressed with the work of Nullsoft and their unique style and approach and I have always had the impression that Justin one of the key driving forces at Nullsoft. I fear that under AOL's corporate thumb Nullsoft (like Netscape) may be well on its way to becoming Null.
Good luck, Justin, and thanks for giving us Winamp.
Re:Your code is your kids... (Score:3, Insightful)
I prefix my statment with: "I feel there are at a minimum two kind of coders out there right now".
And then choose variable A and variable X, leaving a lot of variables in between.
I simply feel it's an upside down bell curve. I'm not a statistician, I could be wrong, but this is my instinct from my experiences.
Yes i've met succesfull, happy coders that have a family and balance/manage time effectively, but none of them are lead coders on anything. And they are rare.
Burnout is a fact we all live with. It's one morning away. Its solvable though, taking minimum 2 months vacation each year helps. Or spending half the year working on light, simple, few days at the most projects.
In the end though, you are an addict or you are not. If you are not an addict, then you can draw distinctions between Type A and (Type B to Type W).
-malakai
Another thought on this (Score:5, Insightful)
There are poor people who are happy and rich who are unhappy. there are also starving people who are too busy looking for something to eat to discuss the question, and rich people who really do enjoy their lives and give back to the community. IANAM (i am not a millionaire) far far far FAR from it in fact, but i think that a person should choose their own path in such a way that it preferably doesn't leave them starving and gives them enough that they can share. And to do this by ethical means in the American culture is sometimes difficult, yes, but a good thing to aim for.
Will leaving make his life better? Probably. Will it make him poorer? In the short run, probably. In the long run, probably not- if he has the skills, there will be a way to apply them, and hopefully in an environment which better suits his temperament. Mind you, this is coming from someone who works a day job unrelated to any of her interests (but not against my ethics) in order to stay solvent. For the moment, it's where i'm at. I couldn't imagine doing it for the rest of my life, however.
May we all have jobs that we can live for, enough to live on and to share, and the good sense to appreciate both??
Re:Slashdot won't like this but... (Score:4, Insightful)
NYTimes gets it wrong...again... (Score:3, Insightful)
Nullsoft's latest creation was a file-sharing program that allowed users to set up secure networks of no more than 50 people.
WASTE was pretty obviously not a filesharing program. It was a small group collaboration program, that allowed encrypted chat and transfers. Its use as a file-sharing mechanism in the way that your average NYTimes reader would interpret that term is extremely limited to non existent. It's a "file sharing program" in the same way that AOL Instant Messenger is. Does the NYT refer to AIM that way?
Then again, maybe I'm the silly one for expecting accuracy, nay, competence, in reporting in the major media outlets.
Re:you're free not to work for them. (Score:5, Insightful)
He's not just complaining about it, he's doing something about it, which is leaving the company. Don't act like he's just bitching and moaning about a contract that he could easily get out of, but is still holding himself to for the sake of money and position. He doesn't like his situation, so he's taking action to resolve it. That is not just pathetic little piss ant whining. That's really following through and I think that's worthy of a little respect.
Re:Why did this take so long? This is why! (Score:3, Insightful)
You are clearly not familiar with most buyouts. The buyout is contingent on an identified number of key people remaining with the company, usually for set periods of time. Buyouts can be reduced, or cancelled entirely, if enough key people refuse to sign-on to the new company. (Btw, being a key person in a buyout is a great place to be.)
Furthermore, top people are often contracted to remain for a set number of years. These are usually the people who are getting the bulk of the buyout money to start with. No doubt in my mind that Justin had to remain with Nullsoft for a long period of time...
I'm sure Justin isn't wanting for money these days. Freedom yes, now that he can afford it. I just wonder about the scope of his non-compete agreement and his lack of ability (these are also parts of buyouts) to hire away anyone else he already likes working with to any new company he forms for some long set period of time.
Buyouts are seldom, if ever, you get the money and can then go and do as you wish with it.
Re:Huh, dont follow you amigo (Score:5, Insightful)
The lack of money, however, does. The lack of money can lead to living in piss-poor conditions, or being homeless, or not having enough food to eat. The lack of money, in many places in the world, can lead to death.
When one is simply concerned with scraping enough together to feed one's family, the question of 'happiness' is irrelevant. These questions come *after* the basics have been taken care of.
Max
Re:Long Decline Anyway - Actually we are gaining (Score:3, Insightful)
So are we really losing bigtime here?
Actually, I think we are gaining. After all, AOL is losing a good programmer, and the world is gaining a programmer that is not bound by corporate interests.
Re:Assignment of copyright and the GPL (Score:3, Insightful)
Bullshit. The fact that someone works for a company does not ipso facto give them the right to negotiate contracts. For instance, if Justin had publicly said "Hey, AOL's monthly charges are now all $0.00! Have fun, everybody!" he would be instantly fired and his statements would be unenforceable, as he does not have the right to make such decisions. Likewise, his job does not entail the right to stipulate licenses (GPL in this case) on behalf of the company, so any such statements he makes are utterly meaningless. This is the only sane way for a company to operate -- imagine if the janitors from two companies negotiated a major deal, and the companies were both then bound to obey it simply because two of their employees made an agreement with one another.
If a used car salesman gave away fifty sports cars for free before his boss noticed what he was doing, do you think that the recipients would ever get their free cars? Of course not, as the employee is acting completely outside of his bounds and any such contracts he negotiates are unenforceable.
It's just DOT COM-ism (Score:5, Insightful)
june 1, 1999: aol buys nullsoft for $86m
june 2, 2003: justin announces resignation due to creative differences
For those who can't connect the dots, he had a 4 year stock vesting schedule. Justin didn't have enough trouble with his free expression while his stock was still vesting, but now that it's done he suddenly feels the pangs of regret for working for the corporate machine.
There's nothing wrong with leaving after your contracts are up, but why not be a man about it? Releasing a ton of code you don't own under the GPL (and indeed, has code in it that can't be released this way due to RSA copyright) and yamering on in public about your former employer is at best pretty immature.
Justin obviously made out quite well selling a media player for nearly $100m. Anyone that's followed the ups and extreme downs of the industry knows that its unlikely nullsoft was ever worth that big of a price tag. Why not exit out of the situation gracefully and be thankful for the luck he had in getting the deal instead of granstanding for your hacker friends.
Re:Anything to do with Waste... (Score:2, Insightful)
Had he not gotten extremely lucky, he'd probably be working as Junior Programmer on some accounting system, ready to be beat down for 'private-sector work' just like the rest of us.
Re:you're free not to work for them. (Score:4, Insightful)
That's crap. The company has all the power and you have none. If you say no, I don't agree to that clause, then the company (and all companies over a certain size have this clause) will say, "Sorry, we won't hire you."
If you want to work, you don't have a choice. They could say "We demand your firstborn.", and you'd have to sign cheerfully or you're screwed. Does that mean they can make it stick later in court? Almost certainly not... but never fool yourself into thinking you can negotiate as an individual with a multi-national corporation. They will just drop you and grab another disposable employee from the world pool.
Re:Anything to do with Waste... (Score:5, Insightful)
Alright, I'll bite.
Perhaps you weren't around when WinAMP was in it's infancy. I remember only one other player that even came CLOSE to the stability WinAMP provided. I even registered my copy with Nullsoft, back when it was shareware. It's not like you had "all the MP3 players on FreshMeat" to choose from. It was either WinAMP or it's crappy runner-up. Couple that with the fact that WinAMP was a) skinnable, b) had some badass graphical features, and c) impressed non-geeks. It also extended mp3 support with some attempts at backward compatability.
I know it's been a while, but computers used to be slow. WinAMP would play on a 95 box running on a 486/dx2. That's IMPRESSIVE, my friend. You couldn't do jack-shit else while it was playing or it'd skip, but the fact that it would play this fancy new MP3 format that only took a couple megs for a song was nice. It made people take notice. What did you do that ranks anywhere near that? I know that crap I did in Comp Sci & Eng didn't land me anything like the deal he made for himself. I don't think he got lucky at all, he saw a need and he wrote something that took care of said need.
Re:It's just DOT COM-ism (Score:3, Insightful)
Judging from what happened, and from Justin's blog, it sounds like he thought he owned the code, but AOL asserted its rights. Perhaps he used WASTE as a test case, to see if the corporate AOL culture was compatable with his attitude.
That's just a theory, of course.
Re:Slashdot won't like this but... (Score:2, Insightful)
$86 million for a free (as in beer) media player is more of a charity than anything else.
No, you will not have the freedom to write p2p programs that are invariably used for piracy if your boss runs movie studios and record labels. This is somehow a surprise?
Re:In Frankel's Defense (Score:3, Insightful)