100mbps Fiber Service To Your Door 398
BitHive writes "With all the talk on /. about the last mile, it looks like people in Mason County, WA may get what I've wanted for years--a 100mbps fiber connection straight to their home. The ISP, DONOBi claims the personal account is 'unlimited,' but since they don't allow servers, and have a business account which is capped at 5Gb/month ($3/Gb addtl), I think we can guess at what their idea of 'unlimited' is. Their service offerings can be found here. Is anyone on this service or knows something they can report?"
$100 monthly point-to-point (Score:5, Insightful)
Imagine a 100MBit connection between your offices for only $100 a month?
Re:$100 monthly point-to-point (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you see the 5GB cap?
We suck 10GB a month down our cable modem, I'd hate to see what we do between offices.
Can this new service carry voice+data?
Re:$100 monthly point-to-point (Score:5, Interesting)
Think about it. If you have a gigabyte of traffic *every* day, every month, you're out about $100-$120 including the regular fee every month... not that bad for the kind of service these guys are offering.
Frankly, I'd be a lot more concerned about the 'no servers' rule than the cost.
Actually... (Score:3, Insightful)
Well... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:3, Insightful)
Where else can you sent 4.7 GB of porn for the cost of a stamp? that's 37.6 Gbit per 37 cents. $3 for 1 gigabit is not nearly as cost effective. Over 300 times more expensive than the post office, True, you can send a CD-rom in a minute with 100mbit/second and the post office has a latency issue of usually 2-3 days.
I really wonder if broadband technology can ever get to a point where it's cheaper than post for sending porn/warez/etc...
BTW, yes, you can send a DVD-r for the one ounce postage rate, as long as it complies with postal regulations when it's shipped. the weight of a single optical disk in a basic optical disc mailer is exactly one ounce, and complies with postal regulations. Of course it's not as well protetected, and could become fragmented or delaminated in shipping...
I'm willing to bet they force any high bandwith users over to the capped limit, because really how do they prove that you are or aren't running a server? or what a server is? Isn't gnutella really based on a http server? does that mean you'll get switched over to capped bandwith if you go on gnutella and they detect a lot of http traffic?
and the 5 gbit cap isn't very much at all.. that's only a single 650 MBbyte CD-rom. $18 a minute for internet access... 50 seconds a month provided and we call that cheap.. (it is 100mbit internet access afterall.)
Now the point to point link deal is really good, because you just pay the flat $100 a month, no per bandwith charges, because you're running over a dedicated private link and the data isn't going over the internet.
Speaking as an experienced cable mode user, 8 gb per month is nothing at all to utilize... that's without even trying. and under a restrictive under 1 megabit downstream cap.
At $112 per DVD I don't think the fact that you can get one in under 7 minutes makes up for it.
hmm... 37 cents? or $112? nope, the post office STILL wins hands down.
Hurrah! (Score:5, Funny)
fiber? (Score:5, Funny)
Servers (Score:5, Insightful)
Not complaining, just pointing out that YMMV.
Re:Servers (Score:5, Insightful)
I am perpetually frustrated by the consumer ISP's industry's belief that all their little users must be good little consumers and not actually use their service for anything but browsing the web and e-mail. I find that most ISP's don't even have functioning DNS servers, which means that most IRC servers (and similar old systems) will reject you from logging on.
What bothers me most is the "no servers" policy. I am paying for the bandwidth - why cant I use it as I choose. Also, what if I want to be more of a server then a user? Why can't I get a better system for uppipe and trade-off my download amount? All the standard gear (DSL, Cable) gets several megabits per second but peaks at 200kb/s. Why is it if I just want to run a medium-sized UT server I have to fork over for a "business" account? Your average leech will have about the same strain on their servers, and yet those of us who actually want to contribute to the internet have very few options as consumers, besides paying for corporate-level accounts that we dont want.
Re:Servers (Score:3, Funny)
Hmmm, kind of interesting that isp's also are in the webserving bussiness. Whats that Pxtl? You want your own server? Sure, for an extra $30 a month we can give you a website with 30 megs of disk space.
Re:Servers (Score:4, Insightful)
You honestly think that $39.95/month 'pays' for a 100mbps Internet feed? The current going rate for el cheapo national ISPs is about $75/meg in 100 meg chunks so you are talking about $7500/month. Decent backbones (i.e. WCOM, Sprint, ATT
This cost per meg doesn't even cover the loop to get the bandwidth to the ISP router. Forget about the cost of delivering the 100 meg to your house. Now assuming your ISP buys the cheap stuff ($75/meg) and is selling you 100 megs for $39.95/month they are overcommitting about 200:1. If you did use your full bandwidth you would piss off 199 other customers. At 200:1 they STILL aren't making a profit.
If you actually paid for what you used I'm sure the providers would have no problem allowing you to use it.
Get real people, the Internet is EXPENSIVE to operate and maintain. throw all the spammers in jail and the price would drop some I'm sure.
Re:Servers (Score:2, Informative)
You are officially outdated here. This is not 1992. Bandwidth is plentiful, and cheap. The pipes are bigger, maintenance costs are the same. I have personally priced out getting my own trunk and I can gaurantee you that it isn't that much through Sprint. Try about $350 for a dedicated T1 (not counting telco charges) with no bandwidth cap. In case you failed to noticed, backbones transfer huge amounts of data, and are no where near capacity.
I can get 300GB of bandwidth at a datacenter for $100/mo.
Now, assuming the fiber to the home is similar to Ashland, Oregons product it's a large ethernet network over the city. It has several ISPs that relay the traffic to the fiber backbone.
Get real people, the Internet is EXPENSIVE to operate and maintain. throw all the spammers in jail and the price would drop some I'm sure.
Wow. Could you please just disconnect yourself, now. You are about as clueless as they come. You are the same type of people who were ranting about the Skyline being brought to the US market and costing over $60K because that's what it costs to buy one in Japan, ship it over, switch the steering wheel to the left side, pay taxes on it, and perform the rest of the street legal modifications.
Re:Servers (Score:2)
Re:Servers (Score:3, Interesting)
Granted, there is a premium b/c it is at a hosting facility on eight different backbones with garunteed 100% uptime (where they define 'up' as less than 100% packet loss, but in reality it is always up).
I'm talking about T1s to a location, not in a datacenter. I'm not sure what you mean though, if you are at a datacenter you should be riding on their pipes to the backbones, and a T1 should never be mentioned. I pay $200/mo for a leased server at 10MBs at Rackspace, and will probably switch to a better deal soon.
Are you saying I got a raw deal? The premium name-brand folks wanted $800+ for the same thing (asking price, of course, not what they would really settle for).
The best prices you can get if you are just looking for coloc space is to find a datacenter and use them directly. HE.net is a great one, and is fairly reasonable in what you can get, if buying in larger quantities.
Re:Servers (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, I really botched writing it. T1s are not commonly used anymore because they are too expensive. DSL prices (redundant DSL lines or sDSL) are much more effective for businesses. When latency isn't an issue, even Satellite is cheaper for what you get.
My point was that T1s aren't what are being used anymore, so bandwidth isn't that expensive. I completely missed writing that.
Calling someone as clueless as they come, when you don't even understand how bandwidth is priced, is pretty damn silly.
No... I'm just illiterate.
Re:Servers (Score:3, Insightful)
speakeasy!! (Score:2)
Re:Servers (Score:5, Insightful)
You honestly think that $39.95/month 'pays' for a 100mbps Internet feed? The current going rate for el cheapo national ISPs is about $75/meg in 100 meg chunks so you are talking about $7500/month. Decent backbones (i.e. WCOM, Sprint, ATT
This cost per meg doesn't even cover the loop to get the bandwidth to the ISP router. Forget about the cost of delivering the 100 meg to your house. Now assuming your ISP buys the cheap stuff ($75/meg) and is selling you 100 megs for $39.95/month they are overcommitting about 200:1. If you did use your full bandwidth you would piss off 199 other customers. At 200:1 they STILL aren't making a profit.
All of the above is absolutely true, but it has nothing to do with not allowing users to run their own servers. If a user is hogging a significant amount of bandwidth and causing degredations in service to others, then I agree that the ISP should charge them more or cap their usage. But again, that has nothing to do with running servers. You can just as easily hog the bandwidth downloading data as you can serving data.
What you decide to do with your share of the bandwidth feed should be entirely up to you. Do they really believe that running your own secure mail server with 5 email addresses, or running a web server so that Grandma can see pictures of her grandkids online, is going to use more bandwidth than users who download ISOs and/or porn all day long? The policy and reasons for that policy as stated make no sense.
Product differentiation (Score:5, Informative)
So you can choose what service best suits your needs. Unlimited bandwidth, geared at downstream only. Or be able to run servers as well, but be limited in the amount of "free" bandwidth you get.
Re:Servers (Score:2)
Re:Servers (Score:4, Informative)
Translation: 'For $40/mo, you can have all the surfing, etc. you can handle, OR you can have all the servers and crap you want with a 5 GB/mo cap. If you choose option 2, we'll be happy to sell you more throughput at $3/GB.'
So, I think they agree with you. IF you pay for your bandwidth, THEN you can use all you want. Otherwise, you're stuck with surfing really* fast.
* Depending on site/route conditions, etc.
Re:Servers (Score:4, Interesting)
At the time it was first being rolled out I was working for a small business in the town and oversaw the our connection, which was fiber to the door. Speeds on the town network were up to 100Mbps while anything outside the network was capped at 1.5Mbps for $50 a month.
Re:Servers (Score:2, Interesting)
I've posted this before. If I were to start a DSL ISP, here's the pricing structure I'd use, for both residential and business use (extra support and bandwidth guarantees would cost extra, and most certainly be purchased by businesses). No restrictions (beyond banning DoS attacks (including being a bot), spam, open relaying, and such; if you are disconnected for those activities, you owe $250) and no ports are blocked. We'll even adjust reverse DNS if you ask, at no charge.
Re:Servers (Score:2)
Re:Servers (Score:2)
Kinda, but you're prolly paying more like 1/8 of the bandwidth in reality. If 8 random people rent a basketball court together, what happens when one of them wants to lay down basketball court sized paper and paint basketball court sized murals? Shouldn't he have to get his own court instead?
Re:Servers (Score:2)
Re:Servers (Score:2)
Or if some script kiddie lived in the 'hood - a billying...
First (?) (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:First (?) (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:First (?) (Score:2)
4 Port Router: $150.00 / Mo
Re:First (?) (Score:4, Funny)
Why do that when you can download one that you don't already have?
Read the fine print (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Read the fine print (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Read the fine print (Score:3, Funny)
On second thought, it's probably a typo.
Re:Read the fine print (Score:5, Informative)
So, it's broadband, that's just like Cable. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So, it's broadband, that's just like Cable. (Score:2, Interesting)
Even if you have a 'business' cable line, you get hit with a ton of restrictions.
The worst aspect of 'business cable' is that you get NO support after 5pm, or on the weekends.
At least that's how it is with our provider [chartermi.net].
Re:So, it's broadband, that's just like Cable. (Score:2)
Then we'll talk.
Re:So, it's broadband, that's just like Cable. (Score:2)
I'm sure there was some one (Score:5, Funny)
Probably not since we just saturated their network.
Never underestimate (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Never underestimate (Score:2)
Hmmm... it's lag would suck for CounterStrike though.
yes, it's nice... (Score:5, Insightful)
High speed internet will be most beneficial when a large number of people have it. (A variation on Metcalfe's law?)
Think of what happened with regular internet and how useful it became when your friends got it. Same thing applies to other technologies like mobile phones.
umm... (Score:2)
Re:umm... (Score:2, Interesting)
This is being done so that the power companies don't have to send a crew out to each household to check up on the power metes, they can just click and check the meter.
They then decided to let internet access go through as well, if you have the fiber there why not give them hyper internet access?
In Wenatchee, WA where I live which is the same area from Mason County, WA. We will be getting digital TV with a few hundred channels, three telephone lines and 10/MBs internet access for about $50 a month within the next year or so.
The only reason Mason Cty. can do this (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The only reason Mason Cty. can do this (Score:2)
Re:The only reason Mason Cty. can do this (Score:5, Informative)
Re:The only reason Mason Cty. can do this (Score:3, Informative)
My grandfather was a commisioner for PUD3 for almost 20 years, and your cisco rep is wrong about Mason county's hydro dams. Mason county has no dams and buys most of its power from the Bonneville Power Administration. It has one generating plant of its own, and I believe that runs on natural gas.
Their DSL prices are higher? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not so strange, it's the same here in Sweden (Score:3, Informative)
I guess it has to do with cost of equipment and return on investment in densely populated areas (I live in a high-riser, so suburban villas may be different and more of a DSL place).
Re:Their DSL prices are higher? (Score:4, Informative)
We provide the best prices we can on all of the different media available. DSL is more expensive to us, but Fiber is only available in certain areas... There are petitions for customers to sign to try and help get Fiber into more areas, but it really comes down to what the Public Utility District for that county is willing to foot the bill for.
We are providing IP service over the PUD network of Fiber optics. Customers also have the ability to have On-Demand video provided over the pipe & other services like telephony. Those are currently outside the realm of what DONOBi offers, but we are working with the different PUDs in the areas we can to provide all of those services to our customers.
Minor Info (Score:5, Informative)
Real per customer business costs far exceed various estimates due to the fact that to sign up customer X at the end of the street you have to essentially lay out fiber for EVERY home between your splice point and customer X. And unless every one of those customers signs up, you may have just expended $15k or more (since they Mason is doing an underground install not poletop) for one customer.
Sweet deal... (Score:2)
Re:Sweet deal... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sweet deal... (Score:2)
exercise to poster: (Score:2)
2) calculate transmission time for a 1518 byte frame at 56k, 1Mbit, and 100Mbit.
3) compare each of those times to the transmission time of light from Los Angeles to New York.
4) do the same for a TCP SYN/ACK sequence.
5) discuss the correlation of bandwith/distance/UDP/TCP vs end to end latency.
Re:Sweet deal... (Score:2)
Now, wait a second. (Score:3, Insightful)
So, I think they're being trustworthy. They're just saying, if you want to run servers, you have to pay for bandwidth. If you want to download pr0n, gobble away. It's a stupid model, but it doesn't seem duplicitous.
i disagree (Score:2)
Re:i disagree (Score:2)
Internet Service is defined that way... by you. They're being perfectly clear about what your money buys you.
Re:i disagree (Score:2)
I smell a lawsuit from the baby bells (Score:4, Interesting)
My guess is they will try to stop this isp or actually bill them through the roof since they do not want anyone else to play ball. I find it unlikely for the second to be true since more supply = less demand for their bussiness dsl and T1 service.
Re:I smell a lawsuit from the baby bells (Score:2)
This probably does make the baby bells unhappy, but I guess that is too bad.
Re:I smell a lawsuit from the baby bells (Score:2)
over your cap in 50 seconds? (Score:2, Interesting)
And after that, you could be paying $3 every few minutes. That sounds kind of pricey to me...
Gigabytes, megabits. (Score:2)
Then again I have a 1.544 to the house (cablemodem) and my real life speeds run between 300kbit/s and 1Mbit/s (37KBytes/s to 125KBytes/sec) - so generally speaking we are still going to be limited by the bandwidth on the server side.
If we can
Last mile (Score:4, Interesting)
What this will be exceptional for is people who have computers at various points in the Donobi network. Here are the people who will gain the most: company with multiple office locations, people who's company let's them work from home (VPN, VNC, etc), and of course, gamers. Gaming within the network will be supreme.
I currently have Comcast. The connection can be flaky at times (supposedly because I am doing it wrong), but the speeds are incredible. I love having a 25-50 ping on the games I play, but when one of my room mates is uploading files (I'm talking to you Kai) on WinMx my ping goes down the tube fast (400 anyone?). I would love my 2.5 mbps down just as much as the next guy, but I would trade my soul just to get a synchronous speed even as low as 768 kbps (256 now). Now 100 mbps? that's fast, no matter what the other problems (pay for downloads beyond 5gb, etc).
Re:Last mile (Score:2)
Not cheap until.... (Score:2, Insightful)
So, you have to ask yourself: Would you rather have cheap Internet service or an uncontrolled Internet?
Something we all have to learn is that you cannot eat your cake and have it too.
Thats just my humble opinion,
SirLantos
Re:Not cheap until.... (Score:2)
And why not? The Telco's do?
Fraud? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fraud? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Fraud? (Score:2)
The company's name is REMC (in Indiana).
Re:Fraud? (Score:2)
ANd I can do whatever the hell I want with it. wh00t.
What's the point? (Score:2)
We don't ever learn, do we? (Score:5, Interesting)
The second problem is the routing/switching. Let's say that they signed up those 2,500 people on the service. If even one tenth of them actually tried to use even half of their bandwidth at the same time, you're looking at 12 gigabits per second, which is more than an OC192 can handle.
Yep, there are some serious problems here. The kind of problems that they will only overcome by one or more of the following:
It looks like it will still be as good (or better) than DSL, but don't cling to the hopes of actually using 100 mbits.
On the other hand, I *have* been in places where one person could actually use 100 mbits. I watched a single download from Microsoft coming along at 11 megabytes/second - 88 megabits/second. Of course, the place had a barely-used OC3.
steve
Re:We don't ever learn, do we? (Score:2)
Re:We don't ever learn, do we? (Score:3, Informative)
Most end customers use very little bandwidth, but then burst when they are downloading a large file, demo, etc...
Currently we have no plans to clamp or cap as you refer to it bandwidth. We do charge more as your usage increases, but at under $2 a GB, it is fairly reasonable.
Web Administrator for Mason County PUD3 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Web Administrator for Mason County PUD3 (Score:2)
Easy (Score:4, Informative)
* Checking Slashdot and a few other discussion boards
* Checking my e-mail
* Chatting on Jabber, AIM and MSN
* Updating my website
* Occasionally downloading Redhat's software updates
* Sometimes playing streaming music (but not very often)
That could easily be les than 5Gb/month.
Wow that's fast! (Score:3, Funny)
Now, a 100Mbps connection, that I could get excited about!
Re:Wow that's fast! (Score:2, Funny)
Still faster than my dialup. Damn crappy phone lines.
Donobi is just the ISP (Score:3, Informative)
The PUD website is http://www.masonpud3.org
There you can find a complete list of retailers, and more information on the Fiber project.
From The TOS (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't something i expect/want from a fibre optic line, neither is:
We expect that you will promptly disconnect your modem from our dialup facility when you are not actively using the connection. If we discover that your system is connected to DONOBi but idle (not sending or receiving data) we may disconnect you.
http://www.donobi.com/terms_of_service.php
Yeah, great... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Yeah, great... (Score:5, Informative)
If you don't want the business account, you don't have to worry about that. You sacrifice the ability to use server. This is what we in the Real World call 'give and take.' And it comes with the territory of paying a lower price for a service.
Terms of service... (Score:2, Informative)
Many Internet service providers block all email from sites that are primary by senders of unsolicited email. In addition, you agree to pay the following in the event you are responsible for, generating or cause any unsolicited commercial e-mail to emanate or appear to emanate from DONOBi. $500 per event plus $1.00 per message sent, plus $50 per complaint received by DONOBi, plus any damages or loss of service(s) to DONOBi, as a result of any spamming or other violation of these policies. These damages include, but are not limited to system shut downs, retaliatory attacks or data flooding.
Translation into abuse:
Spam with reply-to address <user>@donobi.com
Replace <user> with name of loved one.
Is that disposition really necessary?
Unlimited access accounts are for intermittent usage/connection to our system as long as you are physically in front of your computer and actively using the connection.
Five gigs a MONTH? Are they insane? (Score:3, Insightful)
As a current user of Mason County's fiber service, (Score:2, Informative)
While I agree that the bandwidth cap might discourage home users, it still makes great sense for business users. The cap is set at 5GB (that's gigabytes, no matter what the website says) and our service is not affected if we go over the limit--our checkbooks, however, are. We pay a rate of $2.20 for each GB after the 5 GB limit. Consider the amount of data we can send for the same price as our (now backup) T1:
$900 for the old connection - $40 for the first 5GB = $860
$860 / $2.20 per GB = 390GB
390GB Extra + 5GB Included = 395GB monthly
We can deal nearly 400GB monthly for the same price as our old connection. If I recall correctly, we paid the PUD $200 to bring the fiber from the road to our building and we pay something like $5 monthly for each of our IPs (except one, which obviously is included with the base price).
We're extremely happy with the service and frankly I'm amazed that a county as rural as Mason has such great internet access. It's far better than is available just 30 minutes away in Olympia, WA.
It exists now from (Score:2)
Their thru-put is great
There is a bottleneck (Score:3, Informative)
Banned Fiber (Score:2, Informative)
100mbps ?!? (Score:3, Informative)
type R-e-a-l-l-y s-l-o-w-ly!
Maybe they should consider shooting for 100Mbps?
Former Fiber Customer (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Have any of you been to mason county Wa? (Score:2, Informative)
BUT, the reason Fiber is here has nothing to do with Schools. It has to do with the Electric company (Mason County PUD 3) using BPA Fiber and making it available to their customers.
Re:Limit for business makes sense. (Score:2)
I suppose that if it's a personal server that is just going to handle email and occasionaly web-surfing, it would work, but not for much more. If you're doing ANY appreciable amount of traffic on the server, you're going to use a lot more transfer than that.
(As an aside, my servers generally pump out 5 gigabytes every couple of hours, but that's probably not the level of serving that you were talking about.)
steve
Re:damn...that is nice, BUT (Score:2)
then we will
and think about movies...can you really download too many?