The Internship That Students Drool Over 692
selan writes "The Baltimore Sun has a feature on Microsoft's internship program and why it is so popular with college students. Not only are interns paid, but they also receive the same perks as other Microsoft employees. At the end of the summer they are treated to a catered barbecue at Bill Gates's house and have a good shot at a full time job after graduation. You do not know the power of the Dark Side."
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:2, Informative)
Experience (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:3, Informative)
Really? Many moons ago (~10 years ago) I did some internship work at Warner Music (Before we had this whole World Wide Web thing, and certainly before Napster was even a wet dream
I'm surprised to hear that most internships aren't paid at all.... I figured they wouldn't pay WELL, but they'd pay at least something!
--DM
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:3, Informative)
Many companies do not pay interns, said Bill Coleman, senior vice president of compensation for Wellesley, Mass.-based Salary.com, a software company that researches corporate pay and employment practices. He estimated that an internship at Microsoft may pay as much as $25 an hour, or $1,000 a week.
Not out of line (Score:2, Informative)
The difficult years for internships are for freshmen and sophomores - even at top-notch universities students may end up humping campus jobs for $8/hour in their first year or two.
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:2, Informative)
I internerd (Score:5, Informative)
It was an amazing place to work, and I'd say as many as 20% of the employees there were interns (In MSFT Canada HQ).
The everyday perks were incredible, free drinks, 1/2 subsidized lunch room, laptop, iPAQ, yearly budget to purchase anything you want (that will help the company)... It was really amazing.
Re:Experience (Score:3, Informative)
College Recruiting website (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:5, Informative)
OTOH, that doesn't mean that short-sighted tech companies won't slash their internship programs or otherwise leave techies out in the cold. I was supposed to have an engineering internship at On Semiconductor (a Motorola spin-off) paying about $20/hour during the summer of 2001. Unfortunately, the semiconductor industry collapsed that spring, and On cut their entire internship program in addition to cutting lots of permanent positions. Guess who won't ever work for On, or buy any of their parts unless I absolutely have to...
Intern manager (Score:1, Informative)
I work at MS and have an intern who works for me. The interns get a great deal. Yes, they work hard, but most of them enjoy it and would gladly work harder if asked - I often have to tell my guy "go home, it'll still be there tomorrow".
They are treated with the same respect as a full time employee (albeit a junior one), given lots of responsbility (managed appropriately, that's just good management) and all in all get a great deal.
As a manager, I get a great deal. I get someone to do stuff which for me is crappy, but by crappy I don't mean fetch coffee, I mean stuff like handle client management for incoming bug reports (I work for an internal tools group), etc., fix simple bugs, etc.
And the company gets a great deal - they get to hire the best & brightest and know exactly what they are getting. Everyone wins.
(and before some wise guy says "you must be lying, it's not summer", there are internships outside redmond which operate on different schedules...)
And this is somehow different from others, how? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Ah, but at that barbecue... (Score:3, Informative)
You've got that one backwards. A lot of different Open Sauces, and you know what's in each one of them. Microsoft is trying to make one closed sauce for everybody and God only knows what's in it.
Re:Isn't an internship at MS a career killer? (Score:5, Informative)
Well if you really want to know, I have an MS offer packet sitting in front of me. All the "scary" stuff is spelled out in a 3 page employee agreement. Here's a summary of the points:
1. Employee will not interfere \w MS's business interests or engage in activity that will interfere \w job performance.
2. Employment is terminable at will, by either party.
3. Nondisclosure agreement.
4. MS owns all copyrights developed during an employee's period of employment.
5. MS owns all inventions developed during an employee's period of employment, unless it was developed on employees own time, does not relate to MS business, and is not derivative of work done at MS.
6. Employees must declare all owned intellectual property\inventions\copyrights before employment.
7. Employment at MS must not infringe upon agreements \w prior employers.
8. Employee must return all materials\documents provided by MS.
9.One-year non-compete\non-solicitation clause.
10. At termination, MS can withhold money from employees to pay debts owed to the company for advances, overpayments, and company store.
11. MS is not responsible for loss of personal property.
12. Violation of any of the previous will be prosecuted if necessary.
13. MS will not pay attorney's fees if court proceedings are brought begun and they are related tot he employee agreement.
14. This agreement is governed by all applicable laws of the state of Washington, yada yada yada.
Sorry, it's pretty standard and boring.
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:5, Informative)
How many years of college did you have when you went for this internship? Most places with formal internship programs will increase the pay as you get more schooling. The article says they pay "as much as $25 an hour". I made that much when I had a bachelor's degree and was working on my masters, and half that much when I was a sophomore. Not even Microsoft is going to give $25/hour to someone with Introduction to Programming as their only relevent coursework. So unless you were a graduate student when you went on your internship, don't think it's an equal comparison.
A lot of large tech companies have good paying internships with flexible hours and other bonuses. Intel pays as much as MS, and you're eligible for profit sharing as well. I think AMD gives interns profit sharing, but that's purely theoretical at this point.
Working for a company which actually seems to care about you is a very fulfilling experience.
Adequate pay and flexible hours do not a caring company make. Intel has basically the same benefits in their intership program, but at the end of the day you're a well-compensated cog in the giant corporate machine. Flexible hours sounds great until you realize that there is a lot of pressure to use that to stretch the amount of time you're at work. Does it matter that much that you can come in at 11 when you're expected to work fifty or sixty hours a week without extra pay? But they don't mention that in the article, do they?
There's more to a company than their compensation. I've never gotten the impression from ex-MS employees I've run into that they actually care. Then again, most were similar to me -- though not exactly Free Software Hippies, they also didn't think MS was the paragon of software quality and moral business practices. I guess I knew one guy who liked his job there, but he did idolize Bill Gates (which is kinda like a young boxer idolizing Don King).
My point basically is that good benefits don't mean it's a good place to work in other ways. That's one of the best reasons to do an intership. Getting paid well while you're there is just a perk.
Re:Experience (Score:2, Informative)
More Then Just The Article (Score:5, Informative)
It's not that they pay their interns but that they pay them really well, and give them many financial bennies on top of it. I had a free, after reimbursement, rental call every month I was there. They place you in really nice housing with other interns, and while you all end up splitting the actuall rent ( $500/mo for just me to share a two bedroom with private baths ) MS tosses in so much more. The apartments are furnished down to wine glasses, cable tv, and a maid every two weeks.
Campus is more than just a work place it is fun, there are pool tables in various locations through campus as well as two sky walkways lined will old arcade machines. The conference rooms are left open for late night movie get togethers with free soda right down the hall. And the annual Puzzle Hunt is amazing.
You can go anywhere on campus at any hour including the front of Bill's lobby at 8pm, just don't take a picture the security gaurds don't like that as I came to find.
I'll stop here
Re:Yeah but you still have to keep that job... (Score:1, Informative)
There are yearly performance reviews (typical of most companies) but Microsoft doesn't automatically fire 10% of the staff on a yearly, let alone a monthly, basis.
alex
Re:Open Source must strike back! (Score:2, Informative)
While options are being used by nearly every technology company to understate their employee cost, Microsoft is one of the more rational user of options. They generally buy back more shares than they issue with their current cash flow. Yes reform is coming, but it will take a very long time to get here.
If you want more details on black sholes or options please feel free to email me.
Re:Experience (Score:3, Informative)
Developers take turns holding the "on-call" pager and only the "on-call" person gets paged to investigate build breaks. Now, if you checked in code that breaks the build, you might get a phone call at home. That isn't even as bad as it sounds, since check-ins need war-team approval for most of the cycle developers only check in once or twice a week, and unless you wrote un-decyperable code, the "on-call" developer will probably patch it for you.
Re:In South Australia, they volunteer for gov't jo (Score:3, Informative)
Back in the Olden Days, you often DID have to buy your way into an apprenticeship position where you could learn the trade of your choice. And then you might not get paid beyond room and board til you made journeyman status.
Re:quite possibly a stupid question... (Score:4, Informative)
Not wanting to take that risk, MS asks its employees to avoid looking at "unprotected" source.
I was/am an MS intern (Score:5, Informative)
Some interns have much better experiences than others. I would say a vast majority have a great time, both professionally and socially. I am one of them, although I know some that didn't have a good time at all.
Work is work as an intern. You're expected to gear up fairly quickly, but not so as to stress you out. You *are* an intern - Microsoft is not going to give you a job that is 100% mission critical. However, as an intern, you *can* make significant contribution to your group's products (You can find my name in the Xbox credits
I saw a post that said you're expected to pull 55+ hour weeks. This isn't true. You are required to complete your assignments. If that means you need to work your ass off, and you want a good review, then that's what you have to do. If you're an awesome coder and can get it done in 20 hours, good for you. Go drink the rest of the time
Corporate culture is great. Everyone is supportive about things like personal time, social lives, time off, etc. Morale is really high at Microsoft. Through the roof. The company just treats you right in many different ways.
Being a Microsoft intern was the first time I had a consistent, fulfilling social life too. Pretty much every weekend was a party and having fun around Seattle.
The party at Bill's house is getting to be a bit cliche. I suspect Bill doesn't really want to do it anymore, but he's expected to now. There are so many interns at MS that there are several parties over the course of a week.
On the other hand, it's pretty damn sweet to get to see the inside of Bill's house.
Re:Experience (Score:5, Informative)
Every Friday, Microsoft will treat you to the Friday fest - free food and free unlimited beer. Yes you heard that right - every friday.
They will take you out to trips, pay for your tickets for ball games, sponsor white water rafting trips and what not.
I don't think after this experience there was a single one of us who hated MS anymore (and trust me, most of us were extremely anti-MS to begin with).
They pamper you more than you can ever imagine.
Re:Not easy to get in (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Experience (Score:1, Informative)
I don't blame his product group, I think the guy was gasping for air like a fish out of water.
Been There, Did That (Score:5, Informative)
The Interviews: One phone interview with what I later learned was an HR rep took about 90 minutes. She mostly asked generic thinking questions, encouraging me to think aloud. Stuff like "If you could build your own movie theatre, what would it be like?" A couple of days later, I heard from an actual recruiter who said they'd like to interview me in person. At many of the larger schools, a Microsoft interviewing team will actually visit the campus, but in this case, they flew me up to Redmond. Got a sweet 4 day trip - one day to fly up, one day to interview, one day to hang in Seattle, and flew back on the last day. I will have to say that the interview day was without doubt the most grueling day of my entire life. I was directed to show up at campus at about 8:30 AM. Since I had been provided a rental car and hotel room about 3 minutes away, this wasn't a problem. I spent the first interview with another HR recruiter (Brian Schneider actually, who was quoted in the article). He mostly prepped me for the day, telling me to always remember who the audience was for anything I spoke about and to not worry about getting the right answer, just to talk through what I was thinking. I was then shuttled over another building, where the real interview process goes like this. You sit in the lobby, and someone comes out from the back. They take you back to their actual office and spend 45 minutes to an hour with you. After their questions, they lead you back to the lobby. There's two choices after that. If you did well, another employee will come and interview you. If you didn't, the next person to come out will call a shuttle for you back to the HR building, and your day is over. I wasn't that lucky. What they don't tell is that after every interview, the interviewer writes up a short spiel about you and passes the email thread along to your next interviewer. I spent the entire day in 5 interviews. They literally picked my brain to pieces. The only tough development question I was asked was how I would reverse a linked list and I wrote out some pseudo-code. (I wasn't, however, applying for a 'grunt' programmer position, although I do like to code.) The vast majority of the questions were "how you think" questions: how I would design an alarm clock with an unlimited budget, how elevator controls should work, justify my programming of a TV with 5 buttons. Also several "puzzle" questions which I usually had to think about but got an acceptable if not expected answer in the end. Everything was very laid back - the campus dress code is wear something, and everyone has carte blanch over how they decorate their office. I made it home after 6PM and pretty much just curled up in a ball and slept. They make it a point to get back to you in a week, and when they did, I was shocked at the salary. Let me just say that the article cuts the line a little low. (Although not everyone makes the same amount - you do better in a product group with an app that ships and makes money like Office or Windows, than you do in a business group that just manages internal affairs like payroll databases.)
The Summer: I had a blast. Every intern gets assigned a "mentor" who is more of a guide than a boss. You usually take a bit of his/her work and it actually gets assigned to YOU. Whatever decision YOU make is what stands. It's cool cause you can actually make a difference. Of course everything is still subject to peer review but I can recall some decisions I made. [Our product never actually shipped although some reincarnation of it may appear in the future...] The first day I showed up I had an actual office with my nameplate already on it and a computer hooked up and ready to go. I was free to do what I want, really. And contrary to the article, you work your own hours. Literally. I was provided subsidized housing and a subsidized rental car, as well as a pass card that would let me into any building on campus 24 hours a day 365 days a year. As long as I showed up for any meetings I was a part of, I could work as many or as few hours a day/week as I wanted. Still had to get the work done of course, and I did work some *long* weeks, especially when bug or demo deadlines were coming up. They also *threw* money at me. Every time I turned around, someone was dropping a "perk" off at my office... a designer fleece... a picnic backpack... cool stuff you actually use and not worthless corporate "gifts." Oh, and all the drinks are free all the time to all employees. The many kitchens are all constantly stocked with both a Pepsi and Coke fridge.
The Perks: We had free use of the buildings anytime. Quite a few times we hauled a DVD player down to a "conference room" (think small movie theatre size, not nonproductive-meeting-room size) and set it up on the giant projection screen for a movie night. I never got one peep from security, even when playing laser tag across the corporate campus from 11PM - 2AM with half a dozen other interns. Basically if you work there, have it your way. You have many of the same perks as full-timers as an intern. Free bus rides all over the city. This MS "benefit" card that got us and guests free or heavily discounted admittance to TONS of Seattle attractions. The MS shuttle system is designed to get employees to and from the separate buildings but they also make scheduled trips to various outlying areas. It's all free. Oh, and one of the best parts is the MS Company Store. Yes, every version of every software product MS has ever made is freely available on the corporate LAN, most of the time with those @$#& CD-keys disabled. But if you'd like a boxed copy with a real CD and that pamplet that passes as a manual these days, the company store has all current products at a heavy discount. Books and hardware are usually 50% off retail (I picked up quite a few of the Intellimouse Explorers) and software is 90 to 95% OFF retail. That means copies of Windows were $20-25, and full versions of Office were only slightly more. Felt good be legit for once.
The Barbecue: Yup, we went to Bill's. Met him, Melinda, and even the kids Jennifer and Rory. Played on their private beach. Swung on the swing set. Ate until we were gorged. Pretty much just hung out for the evening. The classic moment was when I had loaded my plate up (it's a buffet) and was walking back to my seat. A waitress passed by with a mouth-watering plate of the best looking fruit-topped cheese cake I'd ever seen. I immediately swung around, saying "I'm gonna make sure and get me a piece of that before it runs out!" The server just turned around, smiled, and said "Oh, don't worry, we never run out of anything." I was shocked but it turned out to be true. When I went to the dessert table later there was still plenty of everything.
The Secret: All in all, the intern program is lucrative so as to benefit MS, not you. An internship for them is basically an extended interview. They like to give internships to those who are one summer away from graduation. That way, if you do well over your three months, they can snap you up right after graduation. If you don't, well, they only lost 3 months worth of salary on you. It's all about finding the top talent.
GPA (Score:2, Informative)
Great employer? MicroSerfs? (Score:2, Informative)
> they are a GREAT employer. In terms of corporate
...
...
> culture they really rock.
> And everyone there LOVES Microsoft.
> Anyone who hasn't should read Microserfs. While it may
> not be based on a true life story, it definitely captures the
> essence of Microsoft.
I HAVE read Microserfs... a number of times actually. It seems as if you have not. Either that, or it went totally over your head.
The whole POINT of Microserfs was that the protagonists were absolutely miserable losers, unfulfilled and anti-social with no lives (and not to mention: perpetually cold and wet)...
Saying that Microserfs "captures the essence of Microsoft" is not AT ALL an endorsement of the place. Just makes it more likely that I'll avoid the place like the plague, it does.
Then again, you could just be trolling. I've mostly quit paying attention to such matters.
cya,
john
Re:Are most internships unpaid then? (Score:4, Informative)
Contrast this to what Microsoft is doing. Even though the industry is in a slump, they are continuing to pursue the best and brightest students and lure them through their internship program. Those students come back from their internship and tell their friends about how cool the experience was. Even though I'm not interested in doing business with Microsoft either (for different reasons), their internship program is a good investment for them and their internship practices are a model for other less-visionary companies to emulate.
Re:IT Internships (and the lack of) (Score:2, Informative)
In my personal experience, recruiters, managers, and co-workers have said that a college degree is highly desireable, as it ensures that a person has the aptitude to learn. The idea of getting a college degree, sort of transcends the tangible piece of paper you receive 4 or 5 years later. What I mean by this, is that most people learn MORE than just the classes they sit through, be it by group interaction, professors, or even trips to Canada, Vegas, whatever. I've been told that a college degree completes a person in ways that self study + high school degree can't. Diversity and 'well-roundedness' are things that companies emphasize, heavily. Massive amounts of technical knowledge, certifications, aren't frowned upon by all means, but it won't set you apart from others. Nothing is a guarantee, but companies probably feel more comfortable taking a shot on someone who can contribute both technically and non-technically in all experiences and aspects of life to corporate culture.
(This isn't intended to be a flame/troll
"I would like to hear from *anyone* who's had a real IT internship
I'm just frustrated that college and internships are so finely focused on the programmer, there's almost nothing for a junior sysadmin with his RHCE looking to learn a few things before being thrusted into a shit job market."
I'm a 4th year Information Technology student at RIT that has had several internships, at companies with sizes ranging from small to massive (think 60,000+). Again, these positions ranged from desktop support to building Sun E250's for production accounting servers. On the networking side I helped implement global VPN structure (Routers, switches, firewall's
I landed these jobs, by researching companies that interested me both locally and 3000 miles away. I tailored my resume on a company/job basis and clearly indicated how my 'skills' paralleled what it was I wanted to do. This seems blatantly fundamental, but this is where a lot of people mess up. I was also very aggressive in making and keeping human contact with whoever I came in contact with. This got me 2 out the 4 Co-op's with companies that didn't even have internship/co-op programs. I contacted them and literally 'socially engineered' my way into an interview. I've had a bad experience and several great ones. Finding a full time job, at this point will not be difficult, as I have several offers on the table.
What it boils down to is knowing what you want to do. Using monster and hotjobs, is a complete waste of time (especially for a co-op). I used them to simply get names of companies geographically not in my region. If you don't have a lot of experience, I would recommend starting at a smaller company, and working up to a larger one. You can literally watch the levels of productivity / bullshit corporate politics shift.
You either sink or swim....
Re:IBM Extreme Blue (Score:2, Informative)
First the similarities: Both are quite competitive to get into. However, the pay is good and the work is interesting and challenging. Both companies know how to run good internship programs which make you want to work at the company rather than just use you for cheap or dull labor. So if you want to go for any internships, these are the ones.
Of course, the devil is in the details, and although both are great programs, they are very different in their set up.
Microsoft is trying to introduce you to the life of being a FT employee with extra fun trips and perks on the side. So there are more internships available in more topics. The technical intern roles are also formalized between Program Manager, Software Design Engineer, and Software Design Engineer in Test. There are also more interns in one location, period, so if you want to be around more interns, MS's internship program comes out ahead.
IBM's Extreme Blue internship program is geared more towards introducing potential hires to the company. Unlike MS where an intern is an intern is an intern, IBM has their "standard" interns and then their "Extreme Blue" interns. There are far fewer EB interns (76 technical interns *total* across the US this last summer) split across about 4 sites. The EB interns by and large don't mingle with the other interns. In each location therefore, you are only getting to know about 20-30 people really well. The structure is also different with the environment more like a small start up. You get put in teams of 4 interns (3 tech and 1 IBM). The group is completely responsible for the success or failure of a project with little oversight. There are also tons of meetings, as IBM flies out most of its top execs and tech talent to meet the EB interns. In place of a BBQ at Bill's, they fly all the interns out to IBM HQ in NY and you get to spend 3 days meeting most of the top IBM execs including Sam Palmisano, the CEO. So IBM is a bit different in that you don't get a great feel for what a FT employee does, but it's a much better networking opportunity. On a side note, drinks *AND* food are also free.
So depending upon what you want, each program has a slightly different flavor and benefits (IBM gives you free housing, but MS gives you a bike, etc.), but both are great programs. I'd highly recommend both.
Leonard Chung
IBM Extreme Blue Website: http://www-913.ibm.com/employment/us/extremeblue/
IBM Extreme Blue Info Video: http://www-913.ibm.com/employment/us/extremeblue/
Microsoft Intern Website: http://www.microsoft.com/college/intern/
Re:words for the weak (Score:3, Informative)
There is a huge difference between taxation without representation and the ability to put dinner on your family's table. You're not making stuff designed to kill people, what's the big deal of working for a company that wants to pay you well?
Re:My idea of the perfect internship (Score:3, Informative)
My idea of the perfect internship:
Fluffer.
They're the guys who get the porn acteresses 'ready' for their next scene. Yeah, and they get paid too.
Just watch out for diseases, mate.
Um, I hate to break this to you, but I've never heard of fluffers being used for porn actresses. The few times I've heard of fluffers being used, they were for the porn actors.
You sure you want to be a fluffer [ideatown.com]?