P2P Services Speak Out Against Gnutella2 264
An anonymous reader writes "Three leading Gnultella services voice their opinions on Gnutella2 or Mike's Protocol as they refer to it as. None of the three recognize Gnutella2 as true Gnutella and worry its propritary protocol will divide the Gnutella community. In the first interview Vincent Falco of BearShare contributes his thoughts. The second interview gets input from Greg Blidson of LimeWire, and Arno Steenbekkers from XoloX."
Since Napster is dead.... (Score:2, Insightful)
Propietary??!! (Score:2)
Re:Since Napster is dead.... (Score:2, Interesting)
I really don't understand what is supposed to drive genuine innovation if we demand that everyone (as much as possible, anywayz) is under one banner and doing the same thing. Why is having many different P2P protocols a bad thing? I always thought that this kind of diversity meant that, even if eventually there had to be only one, having large numbers initially would better facilitate the selection process.
Read Darwin, people. Genuine technological development does not come about from rigid unity, but rather just the opposite. You have as many different prototypes, re-interpretations, code forks, or versions of whatever it is you're developing as possible. That way the most suitable model/s for the task are identified over time. The relevant salvageable features of the less suitable models can be taken and added to the more suitable ones, and the less suitable ones eventually fall away by themselves...naturally.
This goes back to the entire Linux vs Windows question, where the thing people complain about is the idea of only having one system (Windows) where they can't make any of the decisions concerning the operating system for themselves.
To me it makes a lot more sense if you don't just have Windows OR Linux, but rather that you have Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, the Mac OS, AmigaDOS, and so on, and if they all have their attendant fan/developer base. That way each system has it's particular use or area of strengths, and work continues on developing others for other uses as well. It also means that the user is free to choose what he/she thinks is the best system for the task at hand. Things get done, people are happy, freedom is maintained, and the world keeps turning.
If you have a singular or monolithic model, this doesn't happen...instead we very often get saddled with frozen, unchanging dinosaurs. Is this really what we want?
Re:Since Napster is dead.... (Score:2, Funny)
Whoawhoawhoawhoa, who said we're not interested in piracy?
Re:Since Napster is dead.... (Score:1)
Jesus... GROW UP! Way to speak like politicians...
Re:Since Napster is dead.... (Score:2)
Re:Since Napster is dead.... (Score:3, Informative)
I agree, anytime i search for anything these days, all gnutella comes up with are about 100 files out there all called exactly what i want, but containing some kind of advertisment in surprise. Yeah, i can block that persons IP and stuff... but, there is so much false stuff floating around out there now that its not even worth the effort.
I hear figures which say P2P and napster kill off the music indutry, but in my own personal experience, i have seen quite the opposite: pushed by hearing new music for the first time in a long while, my father bought the only cds he has bought since they came out last year, and many of his friends also. i have also been on ICQ and asked friends, on the other side of the world "you hear so-and-so yet?" yeah, search on napster... and within days they have ordered the CD (which may or may not be sold locally in their country.).
i dunno where all these figures have come from, nobody prefers to listen to music through crappy computer speakers, they buy CDs to go in decent stereo systems when it is good enough...
ShareReactor. (Score:5, Informative)
ShareReactor [sharereactor.com].
Complete, well-ripped releases. Most of the good stuff is in the forums. Sure, it's slow during peak hours, but that's a small price to pay for knowing that everything will arrive, intact, full quality, checksummed.
Also, eMule is a really nice-looking client.
--grendel drago
Re:ShareReactor. (Score:4, Informative)
Nuff said
Timing. (Score:3, Informative)
--grendel drago
Re:Timing. (Score:2)
If you're nice and do a REQ someone will do a 'reshare' as well
Granted you wont get everything, but you might not find it with with ShareReaktor either.
Counting the total amount of data aviable - i think usenet will still win.
Re:ShareReactor. (Score:2, Insightful)
Only serverless p2p has a chance to survive long enough to develop enough non-infringing users to withstand the lawsuits. Right now Gnutella, Gnutella 2 and Overnet are our only choices. My money (and my own content) is on G2.
Check out www.leeware.com for non-infringing content available through the G2 network. And check out www.sharelive.com for a G2 site similar to ShareReactor.
Hybrids. (Score:2)
Anyway, ed2k servers are pretty easy to set up, and it's not like they all live in the basement of the ed2k Corporation, Inc, a la Napster.
--grendel drago
Re:Since Napster is dead.... (Score:2, Funny)
+5 funny. Or is it -1 Reality Distortion Field?
I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:4, Interesting)
It was a mission to connect and even more of a problem to actually download useful content !
Unless you were a l33t bandwidth wh0r3, it remains to this day, a useless p2p application.
Kazaa on the other hand actually works !
On a low bandwidth pipe, you can still obtain large files, even if it takes you a week to do it.
unfortunately... (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want popular or semi-popular things, kazaa works well. For rare things, you might, if lucky, find one person somewhere who has it and it almost always returns 'Needs more sources'.
Oth.net (Score:3, Informative)
--grendel drago
Re:unfortunately... (Score:2)
I looked up rare on m-w.com, here's the thrid definition.
---
rare
3 : seldom occurring or found
---
If you are looking for a rare file, you will probably only find one or two people who have it regardless of what p2p software you use.
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:1)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:5, Informative)
Gtk-gnutella works quite nicely, I've found. Downloaded all of Trigun and half of Hack Sign from there so far. I even managed to find some Maaya Sakamoto MP3s. Not that I downloaded them, for that would be illegal and bad. *Ahem*. Anyway, the only Anime I couldn't find reliably was Outlaw Star, so I grabbed that from IRC.
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:4, Informative)
Kazaa Lite runs under wine [winehq.com].
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Of course, I realise that from your tone you're either a troll or a moron, so I doubt this reply will make any difference to you either way.
funny (Score:2)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:5, Informative)
Try gtk-gnutella out of CVS. Gnutella these days is a very, very different beast from what it once was (thanks to lots of work on the part of the GDF), and its performance is *far* better than it once was.
The reason Kazaa doesn't work for everyone is because it's the last remaining closed P2P protocol. Linux folks can't clone it (and it's extremely difficult to reverse engineer the authentication stuff) because of that, so Kazaa isn't available for Linux.
I've found that Napster for music, eDonkey for large files works pretty well.
I wish more people used oggs, though...
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:4, Informative)
I assume you mean KaZaA for music...
Just a few comments on your comment. KaZaA (Lite) works in Linux under Wine. The KaZaA Lite site even links to instructions on how to get it working. The fact that KaZaA is a closed protocol is not the reason it doesn't work for everyone. No one program is going to work for everyone. KaZaA works for most people I know, from the indie rock fans, to the hip-hop fans, to the jazz fans.
eDonkey is good for large files, albeit slow. I've been using BitTorrent for a lot of my large files (the latest buffy and anime fansubs) lately, although I don't know if this counts as P2P.
I took your advice and grabbed gtk-gnutella (there was a recent release, so I didn't see the need to get the CVS). I'll have to use it some more, but it seems like the same old beast to me. Will give it some more time, though.
Bittorrent (Score:2)
Sure, you are (potentially) downloading from several people and, at the same time, uploading to several others. Relatively centralized (but that's why it works so well, IMO).
Re:Bittorrent (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, you can't search on BitTorrent. You have to find websites to download from. If the website gets shut down, so does the ability to get the files.
Re:Bittorrent (Score:3, Informative)
True (from my limited experience), but it still is p2p, even if it is specialized.
Also, you can't search on BitTorrent. You have to find websites to download from. If the website gets shut down, so does the ability to get the files.
Yes, but again, BT is a specialized p2p tool, not flawed. It cannot (and probably never wanted to) replace protocols like those used with Freenet or Gnutella.
The design goal [bitconjurer.org] was to make big files available to a relatively large number of people who know exactly what they want, with everyone participating in sharing the load.
But you made me think about a definition of p2p. I would probably come up with something very general.
A slide [frii.com] I found suggests that there is no consensus on the term. searchNetworking [techtarget.com] has a more precise definition. Hm, I'll do some reading...
My favorite P2P.... (Score:2)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Gtk = default dev lib for GNOME
Qt = default dev lib for KDE
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:2)
Swarming et al do a good job of finishing more downloads, and speeding up the process most of the time as well. I'm a convert. I was astonished by the improvements that have happened since I last used it.
My only objection would be how it wastes so much screen space with borders and the like.
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:1)
Re:I thought everyone used Kazaa (Score:1)
How does one "block" hostile clients? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:How does one "block" hostile clients? (Score:2)
Cock-blocking?
I see your P2P is as big as mine!
Re:How does one "block" hostile clients? (Score:5, Insightful)
The other benefit of rules like this is that you don't discriminate one bad client; you discriminate against actions that hurt the network. As long as it plays nice any client is fine.
Re:How does one "block" hostile clients? (Score:2)
Easy! (Score:2)
You can prevent abuse!
You just said the hostile client closed the connection.
Also, it can be improved thusly:
1. Allow no more than Y querries total from the whole net.
2. At the time that it happens, find the average querries per host based on a minimum unit of difference between each host in descending order of querries. This is to prevent those who try to buddy up in overquerrying from raising the average.
3. Ignore those below the average.
4. Add up the totals of all those above the average.
5. Using that same difference unit, get group totals to find the most common ones (buddies or accident they cause trouble either way).
6. Reorder them according to those group totals in descending order. This way the ones most likely to respawn are blocked. We're not the morality police here, just the fairness police. If some harrassment is happening that isn't killing the network, it isn't worth taking away from feature development. Argue it in the discussions not in the code if it's a "small claims" case. We can add features to make sure the abuse isn't killing users' individual connections.
7. Find the average of these.
8. Ban the top 2/3s over the second average for an hour
9. Disconnect the bottom 1/3 over the second average (it'd be great if we could just suspend and any client that refused to suspend would be banned for days).
This guy is a developer? (Score:4, Informative)
"......You could have just left it alone...but unfortunately you decided to have yourself added to the...
[flames=on]
RETARD LIST! YOU F#$@ING IMBECILE! I DONT EVEN NEED TO ARGUE ON THE MERITS WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU ARE THE **ONLY** JACKASS WHO OFFERRED TO IMPLEMENT G2 BEFORE THE SPECS WERE RELEASED! GUESS WHAT DUDE! YOUR CLIENT SUCKS A BIG FAT DONKEY'S DICK! NO WONDER MORPHEUS DUMPED IT LIKE THE STEAMING HALF COILED TURD THAT IT IS!
[flames=off]......."
This guy is a developer? That's pathetic, this looks like something a ten year old posted.
If you are wondering what client he is speaking of, he is talking about Gnucleus.
Re:This guy is a developer? (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe he's a ten year old developer.
Re:This guy is a developer? (Score:2)
Re:This guy is a developer? (Score:3, Interesting)
If the GDF would of acted mature in reaction to Gnutella2 when it was first proposed to the GDF, then this would of never of happened. Gnutella2 would of replaced Gnutella1 and remained "Gnutella". Or at least the GDF could of discussed G2 in a technical context, which did not happen.
No "hard work" was stolen. Shareaza did not use GUESS in any way to create G2, so I hope that's not what your implying. Sure, G2 uses some things discussed within the GDF. But anybody can suggest concepts, but it's not as easy when you go and try to code it in.
Look at GUESS. How long was that discussed? Now that's dropped for "Outdegree", something Gnutella2 came up with.
The GDF needs to let their death-grip of the Gnutella throne go and accept Mike as a legitimate contributer trying to help.
Re:This guy is a developer? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:This guy is a developer? (Score:2)
hmm, sounds like an average day on the Linux Kernel list..
He said, she said (Score:1)
Spellcheck (Score:1, Troll)
Dozens of disgusted slashdotters voice their anger at /. editors or lazy-morons-who-can't-spellcheck as they refer to them as. None of the irate posters recognize /. stories as true English and worry its brain-damagedness will make the subscribers a laughing stock.
Re:Spellcheck (Score:2)
Vinnie is a pathetic troll (Score:5, Informative)
Vinnie says Shareaza is damaging the Gnutella network. Well, his own words are blackening the public's view of ALL Gnutella developers. He himself should be banned from Gnutella, period.
Consider this: most people do not visit the GDF group. So when Vinnie makes an ass out of himself, most people just see his words, and assume that he represents all the other Gnutella developers. People see Vinnie flaming, spewing insults left and right. What are people supposed to think?
Vinne, it\'s alright to make points such as "Shareaza is flooding the network with requests." But when you say things such as "YOU ARE A F#$@ING MORON YOU GODDAMNED SON OF A WHORE," you have gone way past the line.
"I've tried being civil"
If such behavior is what you define as civil...
"I suggest other developers "
Wait, Vinnie, you make it sound like you represent the WHOLE Gnutella community. However, this statement makes it sound like there hasn't been a complete agreement yet, and that this is more your own personal opinion. Has an official decision been made or not?
"YOUR CLIENT SUCKS A BIG FAT DONKEY'S DICK!"
So this is what Gnutella developers are like? Freely bashing other people's work and insulting them when all they have done is try to improve the network. I guess I'll make sure to avoid Gnutella developers at all costs, they sound nasty. Or maybe it's just Vinnie.
Last question: why have I not negatively responded to Adam Fisk? Because he has been civil. You have not.
lost end-user focus (Score:5, Funny)
These guys should stop bickering and ask themselves every day:
- How can gnutella deliver more pr0n, faster, with more accurate search results?
I know I do, and I don't even develop P2P systems.
So they're against open source too? (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't I also have the ability to modify these values in the open source gtk-gnutella program? Good lord, this has to be the whiniest interview I have ever read.
Re:So they're against open source too? (Score:2)
Re:So they're against open source too? (Score:5, Insightful)
Irrelevant? Yes. If a P2P service isn't resilient against rogue leeches (since, like any parasite, a leech does not seek to consume enough to destroy its host), surely it will be completely crushed by industry or government attempts to eliminate file sharing. A P2P service MUST be written as though the user can modify any behavior they wish, because whether it's open source or requires reverse engineering, the user CAN modify any behavior they wish given sufficient time.
In fact, these minor threats faced by P2P networks now are actually GOOD--they force networks to develop strategies to deal with a hostile world.
Re:So they're against open source too? (Score:4, Insightful)
May I add that such flooding prevention is best implemented by coding a defensive let-through behavior that is not based on servent banning based on client name ?
Every piece of software may have bugs. Any p2p incarnation may flood or corrupt the network, be it willingly or not. Banning a vendor name only spawns more flames.
Too true! (Score:3, Informative)
Apart from being flood-resistant and having no central server to shut down, GNUnet has such advantages as...
propagating chunks of files through the network (to improve availability, speed up downloads and reduce overall network load),
whilst being pretty much uncensorable (organisation FOO can do practically nothing to stop access to stuff they don't want shared, and neither can individuals- this also cuts down any claims of culpability of people using the network),
and of course utterly anonymous (do Kazaa, Bittorrent, Gnutella, etc give you this? Why should they? Well for a start, if anybody sharing anything gets targetted by groups like RIAA, etc, rightly or wrongly, then you get no damned network, thats why. Consider those Danish people who got hit for ~$100,000 lawsuits a few months back for sharing files on a p2p network. Still not interested in anonymity?)
I may have missed some detail out or described something wrongly. The main site has a lot of papers describing things in great detail for those that care, but seriously, whenever I've thought I've seen some flaw in the design, I've found out I was wrong. The design is practically bulletproof AFAICT.
There are only really 2 disadvantages with GNUnet currently:
(1)- It's under heavy development, so even though it's usable, you should upgrade often, and
(2)- It's not usable under windows yet. That's partly down to compatibility issues, which are being dealt with, and partly because the GNUnet team don't want to be dealing with the vast number of questions and complaints that would come from lots of Windows users (not a flame on windows users, there are simply so many more of them of course). They'd rather get most of the development and bug-hunting done first before opening the floodgates. But in due course, the project will be complete and usuable to whoever.
If you're a *nix user, why not take a look. If not, bookmark the site, and watch out maybe every few months or so. It won't take forever.
Re:Too true! (Score:2)
I've looked at GNUnet briefly. I'm a Freenet user. The two projects seem to have quite a few similarities.
Is there anyone out there who knows both GNUnet and Freenet well enough to write up a good document describing each one's relative strengths and weaknesses?
Stop yer griping! (Score:1)
As.
Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
*Protocol*doesnt equate to quality of files (Score:3, Insightful)
Its the number and quality of the *users* that effect that..
Ok so I'm nitpicking.. but its true.
Re:*Protocol*doesnt equate to quality of files (Score:2)
Implication seemed to be there (Score:2)
Perhaps not your intent, sorry about that..
True though, better protocols would *tend* to have more users, but it isn't a hard relation that *beacuse* of X, Y is happening...
Re:Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
You are absolutely correct about there being far too many downloads that don't work because more sources are needed. Before anyone tries to charge for these services, that problem needs to be cleared up. (And I'm talking about RIAA-style charging, like $.50 per download, not Limewire-style "Pay us $5 if you like our product. I like food."
Re:Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
You should try Acquisition [xlife.org]. It's based on Limewire's core but has a Cocoa interface that's much nicer than Limewire's Java interface.
Personally, I prefer Mutella [sourceforge.net] which runs on *nix and OS X (through Fink if you like). The interface is command-line or web-based. Mutella supports downloads from multiple hosts.
Re:Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
Overall, thanks for the tip on Acquisition.
Re:Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
Really? Is that a problem in all versions? Do you have a pointer to more info?
Re:Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
Um... if your using the latest version, YES it does have "downloads from multiple sources", also known as "Swarming".
If your not seeing downloads from multiple sources, it's because there aren't multiple sources for the file your downloading. Duh.
Re:Gnutella just isn't that good. (Score:2)
Re:DC. (Score:2)
DC. (Score:2)
So, while it might not be a good app for general P2P, it's pretty spiffy for sharing within an interest-group.
--grendel drago
University papers (Score:3, Insightful)
If anything were known about the FastTrack network, I would venture to say that many more papers would be written about it than about Gnutella.
yay gnutella 2 (Score:2, Insightful)
I strongly suspect that that is because of the excellent changes that were made in the protocol by Shareaza. The gnutella 0.6 network may be larger as is claimed in the article (I strongly doubt this though, most of my downloads come from shareaza users), but it is also far less efficient.
The reason these companies are so pissed is because shareaza's creator came to the conclusion that the design by comittee strategy wasn't delivering much results and just implemented what he thought would work. That maybe is not a nice thing to do and certainly the decision to claim the gnutella 2 name is dubious. Fact is that it is working really well.
What they should do instead of bitching about Shareaza, is fix their clients. Gnutella 0.6 (which is what they still use) is flawed, not very scalable and less efficient than most of the other p2p protocols (including gnutella 2). They should politely ask Shareaza's creator to document the protocol (as he has promised to do) and implement the changes (or similar improvements) in their own clients. Until then, I'm a happy shareaza user and a unhappy gnutella 0.6 user.
Re:yay gnutella 2 (Score:2)
So have you used it? (Score:2, Interesting)
FastTrack is proprietary and under attack, the donkey depends on central servers and Gnutella is stagnant. Assuming Mike releases the specs this month (as he's promised), we'll have an open source, server-free, super-scaling, global searching P2P network. We've never had one, and that's exciting.
The fact that Shareaza is free as in beer and free as in of-spyware/addware is just a bonus.
Re:So have you used it? (Score:2)
Open-source ?? Should I understand that Mike declared he would open the complete source code of Shareaza as well as the MP specs ?
AFAIK this is not the case. May you be so kind as providing a link ? And mention the licence used ?
Is there another free client? (Score:3, Insightful)
FWIW, BearShare's complaining seems motivated at least in part by the fact that Shareaza is out there potentially taking away its revenues...
Re:Is there another free client? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Is there another free client? (Score:2)
If you are concerned about network standing up under the stress, then you can see this is a self-destructive tactic. Keeping it secret means that only a few people can benefit from development. The purpose of a client is to provide a good user interface. The purpose of the technology is to provide good service. In the end you end up with bastardized clients that meet neither goal very well.
If it were open from the beginning, then the day Mike's Protocol chokes on its own enthusiasm, people can fix it or they could throw all that development down the drain to go back to an open fixable system.
Reality has limits. It's not wise to rush to crash into them but to know how to manage them.
Networks are much the same.
what a soap opera! (Score:2, Informative)
Vinnie (who owns gnutella3.com) has said that Bearshare will be "moving forward with our own proprietary Gnutella 3 technology". He has also stated that "Our goal is not to block Shareaza from the network, but rather to give their users the worst possible experience so they will stop using the application. I'll leave it up to your imagination as for the methods we will employ". Some reports say that a block may already be in place in the latest version of Bearshare.
From http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=90 [slyck.com]
Civil war among Gnutella developers is not somthing new!
Every good client hiting Gnutella was usually accused being bad or crap. Once it was Phex, then Xolox, today it's Shareaza. Even well integrated features like 'swarmed downloading' were once rated "bad" from those developers who didn't have it in their own clients - now it's standard in every client. Bearshare has a long tradition of hidden features (not available to other vendors) or in suddenly blocking one competitor. Is there any Gnutella client that wasn't blocked or bitched in the past? I doubt that.
It's a long history of bitching against each other... not efficient work but indeed amusing. New ideas on the GDF looks more like "eat it or die" than a detailed and productive discussion. Other ideas are optimized for marketing instead for technology... Limewire decided to call it's superpeer concept "Ultrapeer" to make it look better than other P2P systems (even though it wasn't even reliabale - is it today or does it need more patches called GUESS2, GUESS3 HYPERMEGAGUESS?).
Of course there are exception! I'd like to name two: For exmaple one open source developer, John from Gnucleus, has written lines and lines of free code. Continously implementing new features while at the same time avoiding (the worst) GDF fights. For example, the Gnutella protocol documentation at http://rfc-gnutella.sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net] mainly from Tor Klingberg & Raphael Manfredi - which was started long after the big ones had there userbase already (no papers prolly to keep new developers away and to increase greedy spyware businees plans? *asking*). I hope those guys and also Shareaza keep their motivation to innovate and help the Gnutella community. For those who believe the latest Bearwire hype (Bearwire = Bearshare + Limewire business alliance), I suggest speak with some other developers.... log on to irc.p2pchat.net
I recomend to read the GDF archives and please poste some of the most funniest quote. Let's make a Gnutella soap opera best of.
Greets, Mark
PS: I wonder why Xolox sneaks to the side of Bearshare and Limewire. strange. well, must be one rules of a true soap opera: suprising changes or dead twin brothers popping up from nowhere.
Re:what a soap opera! (Score:2)
It's no coincidence that Linus Torvalds grew up in socialist Finland, and from that upbringing went on to do the work he did.
The U.S. is just not capable of producing people like him.
This is how MS is going to conquer P2P (Score:2, Insightful)
What they should have done is gang up against Microsoft with open standards and inventive forward thinking and not simply try to use P2P as a scheme to get rich quickly.
My Experience (Score:3, Insightful)
I switch to Shareaza. It's small. First thing I notice is that the user interface is GREAT. Seriously, you have to be smoking crack to think its user interface is bad. It keeps me informed about my searches, uses the OS' native widgets, is FAST and best of all, I have never seen so many responses to my searches. Whether that is becuase of "Gnutella2" or something else I don't know, and don't care. When you're trying to download movies of Anna Ohura at 3am, you want what works, it's that simple.
And Shareaza doesn't include spyware crap.
Just skip ahead and go to Gnutella3. (Score:2)
IPv5?
No.
Just go straight ahead and skip it, just make sure you agree on something better
Kjella
Re:Just skip ahead and go to Gnutella3. (Score:2)
IPv5?
No, but I remember C+ ... whatever happened to that anyway? Damn c++ comes along and everyone forgets about the good ol' days ;-)
Anyone ever heard of Gnucleus? (Score:2, Informative)
Mike's response (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.shareaza.com/forum/viewthread.aspx?I
the bottom line... (Score:2)
I'm also sorry I supported Limewire twice by purchasing the pro edition to support their efforts. Wasted money. Live and learn I guess.
I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:5, Insightful)
Shareaza broke that.
It doesn't really *matter* as much as these people make it out to be, because almost nobody *uses* the damn client, but it's really stupid that they took the "Gnutella 2" name, which really is deserved by the coalition of developers that shared and worked together.
Re:I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course it was a daft move for Mike to call it Gnutella2, but so what? The guy had written a damn good protocol based on Gnutella, and a rose, by any other name, is still a goddamn rose.
Re:I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:2)
When I said "broke", I was speaking only of the tradition of working together that the Gnutella developers had in the past.
Re:I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:4, Insightful)
You can post your findings here. [slyck.com]
I've tried Shareaza too, and it's faster and has a nicer interface than the other Gnutella servants. It's not, however, on a level with Kazaa yet.
You'll notice that this whole debate over the legitimacy of Gnutella2 (or Mike's Protocol, as Vinnie likes to call it) has two distinct sides: on the one hand, you've got the COMMERCIAL developers, including Vinnie Falco, LimeWire, and Xolox; on the other hand, you've got Mike Stokes and Gnucleus.
What this article fails to mention is that the registration of Gnutella2.com is the real issue at stake. The commercial interests are pissy because they've been one-upped by an upstart, as they see it.
Gnutella 2 is deservedly named, and clearing away the cruft was the only way to improve Gnutella. Mike Stokes clobbered the adware vendors with Shareaza, and did what they were all afraid to do: start fresh, start clean, and start out on a level with the current state of the art P2P applications currently available. I applaud the guy for having such guts. He registered the name, and he deserves to keep it. F*ck the spyware perpetrators.
Re:I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:2)
Re:I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:2)
Re:I think that it's reasonable, though (Score:2)
mutella (Score:2)
Re:mutella (Score:2)
Re:P2p linux client Question? (Score:2)