A Preview of Ximian's Gnome 2.0 Desktop 322
TweetZilla writes "Dennis Powell has a good preview of Ximian's newest desktop. But does anybody care at this point? How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?"
Life is a healthy respect for mother nature laced with greed.
Why... (Score:5, Funny)
Because the "story" is a Troll? (Score:4, Insightful)
It's either someone who is a rabid GNOME2 user, or a KDE user who has some childish bone to pick with Ximian for some reason. Nevermind all the work from Ximian that can be found at gnome.org. What a loser. I'm using KDE 3.1 myself, but kudos to Ximian for their pending release.
The nature of Ximian (Score:3, Insightful)
Ximian is a company that does a couple of projects -- Mono, Evolution. They also put out a "distribution" of GNOME, much like RH and Mandrake put out distributions of Linux. If you like Ximian's desktop more than the one that comes with, say, Red Hat, you can use it instead.
This may seem a little odd to some people, but GNOME is a somewhat larger, looser, more distributed collection of projects than KDE or GNUStep, and it's actually quite convenient if you want to use GNOME.
Please, someone, let KDE 4.0 and Gnome 3.0 be the same.
I doubt it'll happen. Too many differences in what the two projects are trying to accomplish. KDE people are trying to essentially produce a clone of what MS has done, and directly compete with them for Windows users. Smaller, programs more tied to each other, less independence for individual projects. GNOME people are trying to take an umbrella of projects and "condense" them into a desktop environment. Larger, more modular, programs more independent and simply packaged together. Rather like a Linux distro, come to think of it.
Re:Why... (Score:2)
<roblimo>Whatever.<roblimo>
I'd forgotten... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I'd forgotten... (Score:2)
Re:I'd forgotten... (Score:2)
I haven't tried 2.0 out yet, but Ximian1.2 & 1.4 were simple to install and maintain, whereas Gnome1.2 & 1.4 still can still decend into dependancy and library hell.
I usually just use my desktop for working, and don't want to waste my time dealing with out-of-date libraries for vanilla Gnome.
(For the record: I use Gnome2 also, but it's under a different directory, and I only use it when I want to help the Gnome folks on bug day).
Apples & Oranges? (Score:5, Insightful)
Ximian's DESKTOP -> WM
Evolution -> Mail Client
What kind of comparison is this? And as a matter of fact, I use both...
Re:Apples & Oranges? (Score:2)
I use Evolution + KDE together, it has no bearing on the Ximian desktop whatsoever.
Re:Apples & Oranges? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Apples & Oranges? (Score:5, Funny)
Submitter made a jackass of self (Score:2)
Re:Apples & Oranges? (Score:2)
Indeed. Although you would expect this from SlashDot, it's been my observation that there are no "editors" here who are full-time Gnome users. Unfortunately their advocacy blindly over-rides their sense of journalistic professionalism, which is why you should never consider this site either professional or news.
Just my opinion.
(Moderation: -3 Troll.)
Re:Apples & Oranges? (Score:2)
We do... (Score:5, Informative)
A lot of Solaris users (including myself) that don't want to spend days downloading and compiling dependencies for Gnome.
Re:We do... (Score:2)
The process may take days (of CPU time, not yours! as all done without your interaction) if you prefer to compile from source code, or just minutes if you prefer to use GRP, Gentoo Reference Platform (basically - binary distro).
By the way, Solaris users cannot even dream about such package management system as Portage. You may try Gentoo on your Sparc some day :)
Ximian Gnome under SuSE 8.1 works very well (Score:2)
Originally I'd just been trying to find a build of Evolution that supported SSL and TLS (ATT email requires encrypted links; a good idea for email security.) The only way I could resolve the dependencies was to refresh the whole environment via Ximian's RedCarpet installer. As Red Carpet also had the option of pulling in SuSE updates, it's become the central update engine for my SuSE development box.
I spent many years as a KDE fan, and still like the product a lot, but Gnome has stabilized nicely and with a bit of work you can make the UI more familiar than the default installation is. If you're developing pure (L)GPL, then KDE is the nicer dev kit. If you need to produce products that could be enhanced by your clients, then there are few options other than GTK+mm which don't cost thousands of dollars to support WinXX and Linux clients.
Trolltech has to be paid up-front to do non-GPL development with KDE, which I can't afford. I have no issue with rolling license costs in to any commercial sales in the future, but I can't buy licenses for initial prototyping because it's all spec work -- I have no guarantees I'll ever have a paying client for the work. (Don't get me wrong, Trolltech's licensing fees are very reasonable, I just don't have the cash to spare right now.)
Re:We do... (Score:2)
Re:We do... (Score:2)
The Preview CD that Sun released last year is way out of date. The packages available via RedCarpet are as up-to-date as 1.4 can be.
The Preview CD available now contain Gnome 2 beta 3. I need to use my work machine for work, not for testing beta software.
Re:We do... (Score:2)
I'm sure it'll sort itself out soon, eventually Sun will change to Gnome as the default desktop.
I still miss OpenWindows though. Kinda. Actually, I still use it on some data analysis machines. Remembering that I hate it. Argh.
Solaris Users Agree (Score:2)
I prefer olvwm, but when I use Gnome I use Ximian. It Just Works(tm).
Re:We do... (Score:2)
Two words: (Score:5, Funny)
Stop reading.
Re:Two words: (Score:5, Funny)
Who would want to even do that is beyond me, it made me sick to just look at it. Its like putting janet reno in a miss usa contest, for lack of a better description.
Re:Two words: (Score:2)
I don't know either, but I bet it was an Ewok.
I still use it (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I still use it-Self esteem. (Score:2, Funny)
OK, you're an idiot. Although I don't know why you'd want to be called one?
Re:I still use it (Score:2)
However, running Ximian Desktop on Red Hat will mess up up2date upgrades of rpm_s common for Ximian Gnome and standard Gnome, included with Red Hat. This was the reason I stopped using Ximian Desktop, although it wasn't bad at all.
Re:I still use it (Score:2)
I know what your saying about the ease of installing Ximian, but using KDE for comparsion was a really bad example.
Re:I still use it (Score:3, Informative)
I used KDE on purpose. It astounds me that there is no installer for KDE, nor is there a Red Carpet-like tool. Those are what keep me with Ximian. They are easy to use.
Yeah, sure, I can pop open a console and use apt. I don't want to have to. I like clicking on an icon and getting a nice gui with my updates. I have better things to do with my time than to root around looking for information on what to add to my sources file for apt, or to download the ton of RPMS that KDE requires, and then get all the versions right for QT/aRTS. It seems I always have trouble with QT and with aRTS.
Re:I still use it (Score:2)
http://distro.conectiva.com.br/projetos/46/
It really doesn't get any easier than that especially compared just getting linux installed and setup in the first place. If you still think getting kde is too hard, then I suspect you have real bias against KDE. That's fine as well, but you should be honest about it.
Re:I still use it (Score:3, Informative)
cd meta/kde
make install
That's it. It downloads, checksums, extracts, compiles, and installs everything in the right order. I set it to running (installed a libpcre-dev package when it complained) and let it go overnight. When I woke up in the morning I logged out and logged back in and bam, I was using KDE 3.1. Very slick.
I was worried that since I had KDE 3.0 installed from packages (RPM's from Mandrake 9) that it would have trouble getting everything installed and working smoothly from sources, but I didn't have to do anything.
There are other subdirectories that let you do the same thing for koffice, quanta, and several other parts of the new release.
http://konsole.kde.org/konstruct/ [kde.org]
This seems to be what Redhat is after (Score:2)
Re:I still use it (Score:2)
Re:I still use it (Score:2)
I downloaded the Gentoo Live CD yesterday at work, but it failed to boot. I downloaded it again today (file size was 80MB bigger - should've paid more attention yesterday). I'll be trying it again when I get home. I've tried Slack and Debian, and didn't care too much for them. I like Mandrake, somewhat. Never tried Suse.
Re:I still use it - - Me too!!! (Score:2)
Do you like downloading (or buying, if you want to be legal) *one* giant package? (As opposed to apt-get install [name of what you want] and letting the dependencies just flow down the pipe).
Perhaps you Don't have all weekend to compile?
And you want to use the binary packages that almost all Linux distros provide?
Are Hardware requirements for the latest KDE/GNOME just a little stiff??
Try comparing the latest KDE/GNOME to the latest Windows -- XP.
evolution (Score:2, Funny)
Screenshots or Specific Info Please? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Screenshots or Specific Info Please? (Score:2)
--Sean
well... (Score:4, Funny)
Screenshots? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Screenshots? (Score:2, Funny)
What I want to know is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and on an aside note, is Michael on crack? Evolution vs. Desktop?!? It must be the lack of viewports that's fucking him up.
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Sawfih wiki (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Yeah, I stuck with gnome for a long time simply because of that feature. But since it wasn't available, I saw no reason to keep from switching to the (IMHO) much prettier KDE.
And now that I'm here, I ain't going back until gnome gets a better integration with cups printing like KDE has.
$.02
How to make GNOME 2 kick ass like GNOME 1 (Score:5, Informative)
I use sawfish. Add the following to ~/.sawfishrc:
(setq customize-command-classes '(default viewport))
(setq viewport-dimensions '(3 . 4))
(or whatever size you want -- I like 3 across, 4 high.
For edge flipping, be sure you've turned it on in the sawfish config dialog.
Finally, a bunch of the kickass features in GNOME 2 are off by default to accomodate less-than-technically-ept Windows users. You probably want them on too.
Add the following to ~/.gtkrc-2.0:
gtk-can-change-accels = 1
gtk-key-theme-name = "Emacs"
This will give you emacs style keys back again. Once more, ctrl-a will go to the beginning of the line, ctrl-k will kill, etc. It will also let you rebind menu items by simply hovering the mouse pointer over the item so that it's selected and then hitting the desired key combination.
And I agree about the Evolution/Desktop thing...how did this ever get on Slashdot?
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
As others have noted, you can get it back by playing with Sawfish's config.
I have to say, though, that I'm content with the defaults. Edge-flipping is sort of cool, but it annoys me when I do it by mistake. So I always had the delay set at a few hundred milliseconds, so I would drag a window, wait for it, keep dragging. With GNOME and Metacity now, you can just send the app to another workspace. It works for me.
You can also click on the little representation of the window up in the workspace switcher, and drag it from one workspace to another! That's pretty cool. Windows are represented with little proportional rectangles within the workspace switcher, and you can click on the active one and drag it around, either within the current workspace or to another one.
It's a pain to drag a small window, since the representation is very very small. They ought to be forgiving about where you click, since you can only drag the active window anyway and there is only one window active at a time.
steveha
HOWTO Add edge flipping to metacity... (Score:3, Informative)
In the file src/window.c
In the function constrain_position(...)
In the else {} block after the if else (window->maximized) {} block
After the function call:
meta_window_get_work_area (window, FALSE, &work_area);
Add this code:
#define EDGE_FLIPPING_HACK
#ifdef EDGE_FLIPPING_HACK
if (1)
{
static int transition = 0;
int threshold = (window->rect.width/2);
int left = 0;
if (transition)
{
if (!(x work_area.x + work_area.width - (threshold + 16)))
transition = 0;
}
else if (x work_area.x + work_area.width - threshold)
{
MetaWorkspace *workspace;
transition = 1;
workspace = window->screen->active_workspace;
if (workspace)
{
int index = meta_workspace_index(workspace);
if (x work_area.x - threshold - 40)
{
++index;
left = 1;
workspace = meta_workspace_get_neighbor(workspace, META_MOTION_LEFT);
}
else
{
--index;
if (index 0)index = 3;
workspace = meta_workspace_get_neighbor(workspace, META_MOTION_RIGHT);
}
}
if (workspace)
{
meta_window_change_workspace(window, workspace);
meta_workspace_activate(workspace);
}
}
}
#endif
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:3, Insightful)
I find that having a larger than normal connected desktop to be useful for many reasons. The biggest is that it helps me out with organization and prevention of clutter on the desktop. I have two workspaces that are 3x2 in size.
I don't understand why they removed that feature. If it confused some people then make it an advanced feature and allow those of us who like it to use it. They shouldn't have just EOLed it.
As for key bindings, I have those too. I use them to move between my multiple workspaces, then the mouse to move within that workspace. It's quite effecient. If you don't believe me, ask the kind people at Apple about their speed tests for keyboard vs mouse.
Amen to that... (Score:3, Insightful)
a) No Ximian available
b) The GNOME it comes with doesn't do viewports. I can't live without my 3x2 workspace. Keyboard shortcuts are no replacement for moving the mouse to the edge of the screen to go to the next one. It just feels more natural.
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Um. KDE Control Center->Desktop->Window Behavior->Advanced->"Active Desktop Borders". This defaults to "disabled", but if you set it to "always enabled", KDE acts like I think you want it to. This feature has been there since KDE 3.0's first release, and it might have been in KDE 2 (I don't remember.) I don't really care for it, but whatever yanks your crank....
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Two Completely Different Things (Score:3, Insightful)
No, those are two completely different things!
Workspaces are totally independent desktops. If you slide something off the edge of one, it just vanishes. In order to flip between them, currently you have to drag the mouse down to the little toolbar applet and click on a different one. Pain!!
Viewports are like a window on a single, much larger desktop. You can drag a application off the edge of one viewport and onto an adjoining one, which is why you have edge-flipping. It is also possible to open a window much larger than the physical display and scan around it.
Personally, I use viewports and edge flipping all the time!
The lack of viewports in RH 8.0 is the single greatest reason why I haven't switched yet.
Re:Two Completely Different Things (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, that is very bothering, specially when you inadvertently start switching viewports (i.e. when moving the cursor out of the way).
besides, you have shurtcuts to switch desktops, which is very very handy. I only wish they were a bit more independent and polished:
I'd like to be able to have different backgrounds (and meybe even icon sets) among different desktops; and
An application started through the run window, or a menu entry, initially display in the desktop where they started.
I might be wrong, but so far only STEP like wm have done it. (maybe enlightenment too, but i couldnt tell).
Re:What I want to know is... (Score:2)
Unknown Release Date (Score:2)
I feel all hyped up, like when Linux 2.4 was announced. Oh-Yeah.
Still very useful and interesting to me at least. (Score:2, Interesting)
StarTux
Probably quite a few (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Probably quite a few (Score:2, Informative)
The maintainer Todd Kulesza has done an awesome job with it. It is installed as easily as any other Slackware package.
Updates are easy as cheese too.
Highly recommended for Slackers.
clue. lack of. (Score:5, Insightful)
> as a result, their browser renders pages "best viewed in Internet Explorer," as the incompaibility
> is euphemistically called, exactly as if in Internet Explorer.
Erm, fonts != web rendering technology. If it's broke in Gecko [mozilla.org] it's broke in Gecko, and having the right fonts won't make any difference. Or does he mean, "best viewed in Windows"?
What's euphemistic about it? And why does the author call it an "incompatibility" when he means a "recommendation"? Euphemism, n.: "an inoffensive expression that is substituted for one that is considered offensive".
As another user points out, the article offers so salient points regarding any actual new features or improvements, just a general mish-mash. Then to round off it sounds off on a whole load of random mismatched arguements about how free software's wonderful. We've heard it all a thousand times before.
I get so annoyed by people writing pretentious twaddle using words they don't understand because they think it looks impressive, while simultaneously making grammatical, spelling and typographical errors all over the shop. You ain't fooling no one...
Next please.
Re:clue. lack of. (Score:2)
Which describes the statement "best viewed in IE". Maybe you don't remember when HTML came around and people actually wrote pages. By hand. And you wrote it not knowing how the end user was going to view the page on their machine. Or what OS, or browser. And you didn't care, because HTML is SUPPOSED to separate the content from the presentation.
The fact that any web site has a 'best viewed in..' statement means it's broke and the web desingers use crutches instead of good web design.
Re:clue. lack of. (Score:2)
I think he means font sizes. Windows and Linux interpret font sizes differently, which means that when web designers embed absolute font sizes, what looks good on windows just looks too small on Linux, and we have to zoom in to the page. So I think that's what they're talking about here.
As another user points out, the article offers so salient points regarding any actual new features or improvements, just a general mish-mash.
Er, because it's not done yet, and Ximian don't want a load of ignorant slashdotters arguing about it before it's even out?
I get so annoyed by people writing pretentious twaddle
Me too :)
Re:clue. lack of. (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, no. Internet Explorer interprets font sizes differently than everything else..
what looks good on windows just looks too small on Linux, and we have to zoom in to the page
Again, what looks good on IE looks too small on Netscape.. it's a result of the browser wars.. MS deliberately made the equivalent font sizes one size larger, so if someone was designing a page and viewing it only with IE, they'd make the fonts too small to be readable on Netscape, to 'encourage' Netscape users to switch.
Re:clue. lack of. (Score:2)
Interestingly enough, it looks the same in Netscape 6.2.3 as well.
Oh, yeah... then I opened up the same page in Netscape 4.79 and, guess what? The font looked markedly smaller than IE, any of the text editors, and Netscape 6.2.3--which all looked identical.
-Jayde
Re:clue. lack of. (Score:2)
Ximian Gnome & Red Hat 8 (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Ximian Gnome & Red Hat 8 (Score:5, Informative)
If you're running RH8.0 and want to use a version of Gnome that's a little more current, may I suggest that you check out Garnome [gnome.org]? It's a very nice ports-based Gnome distribution based (currently) on the latest 2.2RC1 (2.1.90)
I installed it on my Laptop which is running RH80, and it fixed a lot of things that were pissing me off. Upgrading galeon from their site didn't hurt either.
WOW LACK OF CONTENT (Score:2, Insightful)
What's wrong with Ximian? (Score:3, Insightful)
Even now, it's still rather impressive: nice themes, runs fairly quick/smooth, interesting suite of applications. Changing settings was also quite easy.
I've since tried running RedHat 8.0's packaged Gnome, and was considerable less impressed. The thing runs like a wounded Yak, and it's not nearly as pretty as Ximian.
Oh, and as a really nice point for GUI newbies... installing Ximian Gnome was "extremely" painless on RedHat, using a webpage piped through a shell: (substitute "links" for "lynx' as needed):
lynx -source http://go-gnome.com/ | sh
Re:What's wrong with Ximian? (Score:2)
A wounded Yak, or a wounded Gnu?
Who cares? (Score:2, Informative)
Think before you spout.
File Dialog... (Score:2, Interesting)
Can anyone tell me if they've fixed the file chooser dialog? If they haven't, they have 2 options...
(1) Fix the file chooser dialog. It's horrible. I've used DOS applications from the 80s which had better faux file chooser dialogs. QT 1.x had a better file chooser box.
(2) Give up. They haven't gotten it fixed yet, when will they.
Seriously, it's horrible. I've never had to interact with such a horribly designed file chooser box as much as I do because I use evolution. I love how when you change directories; the filename of whatever you're trying to save disappears. Great feature guys.
Seriously. Give me something with a "up a level button". And put the directories and files in one window, with "icons" so I can tell the difference between the two.
Re:File Dialog... (Score:2)
I'm not surprised Ximian want to keep a lid on it. Keeping us in suspense is a good way to get good marketing if the end result is good (and i'd bet anything it will be), and in the meantime they avoid flames.
Re:File Dialog... (Score:2)
I run Mandrake, and have tried both KDE and Gnome. I really like the look of Gnome, but the file selector literally drove from Gnome and back to KDE. It sounds petty, but it's not. (OK, maybe it is petty.)
The decision to move the "OK" button to the left side hasn't garnered any brownie points, either.
Of course, The KDE file selector has problems, too. When it loads icons, it first displays them, then shimmys them around a bit, reordering them. Quite often, I'll have hit one icon, only to have it moved and another one be selected.
I'm looking forward to seeing Gnome with more polish, especially since my favorite toolkit (wxWindows [wxwindows.org]) doesn't have bindings to Qt/KDE.
Still, I suspect that KDE will end up my desktop of choice. But I'm willing to be pursuaded otherwise.
Re:File Dialog... (Score:2, Informative)
At least Swing's has the basic buttons I like. Home. Up a level. Create a folder. And it lets me sort files by different options.
GTK has none of those. The fact that swing has them really elelvates it waaay above GTK's selector. It is so not close to "almost as bad".
why I gave up evolution and learned.... (Score:2)
not being able to access setup details because for a mail account because that mail account was 'busy' ahhhh...... And don't even bother editing the XML files.
1.2 was better but still a right pain, things went funny all the time, I never found out how to prevent line truncation and well, and it doesn't work on the 2.5 kernel..
Anyhow I though I'd give kmail another go, the last time I used it was more than a year ago and it qas quite poor.
kmail is great, there are a couple of quirks, but it's quick and easy to use/configure.
I never used the desktop and I don't intend to use evolution again, unless it get a re-write.
Difference between free and purchase (Score:2)
I wouldn't say this is consistantly true. Infact I would say it's primarily true with free software for the simple reason that no one wanted it in the first place. Most of the time the developer made it because they wanted to.
With purchased software there was a need before the developer started. And when the developer is being payed, they tend to listen to the customer a bit more. See Adobe [adobe.com] for an example.
As an Evolution and Red Carpet User... (Score:5, Insightful)
Even though I'm in the process of switching to Debian and KDE 3.1 right now, (apt-get makes Red Carpet redundant), I also want to test Ximian Desktop out in order to get a feel for the tools that might be of service to some of my clients who aren't ready for Debian.
Who cares? I do. (Score:2)
You really need to pull you head out of your ass.
I run Ximian on my Sparc (Score:3, Insightful)
That being said, I wish Evolution supported Exchange 6.5. I really hate having to have a SunPCI window open all the time just to check the appointment calender on the Exchange server.
one meaningless opinion (Score:3, Insightful)
It's getting on my nerves... (Score:2)
Lots of people use Ximian's Desktop and Evolution. (Score:5, Insightful)
Ximian certainly offers that, but IMHO, Gnome2's desktop framework offers this as well. Ximian though, in contrast to just Gnome2, is a bit easier for most Windows converts than just plain Gnome/Gnome2. Also, Ximian's desktop is rather inclusive of some pretty "user-friendly" tools.
I think KDE and Ximian's Gnome2 are going to be the usual first-used desktops by most converts. This is important for those who care about making Linux a more "popular" desktop for the general populous. We should always try to encourage this type of activity, because it inspires choice.
After a convert learns about all the features, and shortcomings of their "starter" environment, they will inevitably change something, or just find something they like more.
Without a "starter" type desktop though, they wouldn't be as encouraged to find something they like more, thus stifling the overall acceptance of Linux as a general purpose desktop.
We should always try to change the negative to be positive, if it is possible. A good Linux desktop, which wins converts from Windows, will increase the popularity of Linux, thus increasing the acceptance of OpenSource software, thus increasing how much people rely on OSS, and then people will care more about it than they previously had. At least a little.
It's a chain of events that will lead more use of OSS software in general, and something we should continue to help the growth of. Not say "why the hell would anyone use that shit? I use WindowMaker and it's just fine!". Maybe once those converts are on Linux for a while, they may agree. Give'm the opportunity.
Re:Lots of people use Ximian's Desktop and Evoluti (Score:2)
I know and have worked with enough long term Linux people that their tastes are varied enough that they will choose environments which they like (and all environments have shortcomings, each one tickles you in a different way).
You like an environment you really enhoy, good for you and the same for anyone else that tries new things
StarTux
When comparisons go wrong... (Score:2, Insightful)
screenshots here (Score:3, Funny)
as a Kde 3.1 user myself, i think it doesnt quite compare..
Easy... (Score:2, Informative)
How many people still use Ximian's desktop? As opposed to Evolution?
Ask corporations which use Linux on the desktop and want some support :-) My company is doing a roll out of Linux based workstations (actually thinclients) to a health related organisation, and if budget would be higher it'd be nice to have more software for which you pay but get support when some problems occur...
I love Red Carpet/Ximian Desktop (Score:2)
Re:Ummm... (Score:2)
Re:Or Gnome, for that matter (Score:2)
Solaris is going to have Gnome 2.0 as the default desktop with Solaris.
KDE might run away with the Linux market, but there's a lot more out there than just Linux, and Gnome is already set in stone for some of them.
The Germans (Score:4, Funny)
Free? (Score:2)
With the non-tradition use of the GPL in the QT library, it is certainly free as in beer, meaning you can use it without cost....
However, you have to pay for a developers license to have any freedom as to how your code will be distributed. But even then, you can't allow other people who receive the code to have similar freedom unless they too pay for a developer's license.
But because it is GPL, it is certainly free to have certain personal freedoms... but other personal freedoms cost money.
So I guess it is free like a U.S. citizen.
The bottom line though is that developing QT apps for KDE has far more restrictions than developing for Win32.
Re:Ximian Desktop 2.0 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ximian Desktop 2.0 (Score:2)
I use it for these reasons also, just because you can spend all your time sorting out dependencies, and compiling packages doesn't mean that it isn't boring as hell and takes up all of your time. Doing things from scratch can be fun, and educational, but who wants to walk when you can drive?
Re:Ximian Desktop 2.0 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Ximian Desktop 2.0 (Score:3, Insightful)
Um, nobody cares. That is, no one outside the geek development crowd. This thing is aimed at people who want to run Linux, but want to have it look nice and do what they want without having to spend all day setting it up, or all year learning how to install/compile/rpm/apt-get/whatever.
In fact, most places that would use Ximian Desktop, like actual companies, don't want the latest, greatest. They want something that has been around for a little bit, that they know is not going to break right away.
I, for one, will be quite happy if it fulfills half the expectations this guy sets up for it. I've been looking for something that I can put on my Mom's computer that will still give her all her Windows functionality and ease-of-use. If Ximian Desktop 2.0 does this, she doesn't care what the number is (indeed, she probably won't even realize there is one!).
Troy
Re:Poisoned My System! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Michael on drugs.... (Score:2)
Ximian Desktop is based on Gnome, but Ximian has made their own customizations to it. The current Ximian Desktop is based on Gnome 1.4.
So why don't you learn about stuff before you comment on it??
Re:I do (Score:2)
Ever since I dropped Mandrake 9 and Debian 3.0 on my two boxes, I've been without the Ximian interface. (After numerous visits to Ximian.com [ximian.com], I was about to give up hope.)
Consider that hope rekindled.