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Microsoft

MS SQL Server Worm Wreaking Havoc 964

defile writes "Since about midnight EST almost every host on the internet has been receiving a 376 byte UDP payload on port ms-sql-m (1434) from a random infected server. Reports of some hosts receiving 10 per minute or more. internetpulse.net is reporting UUNet and Internap are being hit very hard. This is the cause of major connectivity problems being experienced worldwide. It is believed this worm leverages a vulnerability published in June 2002. Several core routers have taken to blocking port 1434 outright. If you run Microsoft SQL Server, make sure the public internet can't access it. If you manage a gateway, consider dropping UDP packets sent to port 1434." bani adds "This has effectively disabled 5 of the 13 root nameservers."
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MS SQL Server Worm Wreaking Havoc

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  • by cscx ( 541332 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @08:53AM (#5156253) Homepage
    Outside a firewall for no apparent reason is a tool. That being said, we live in a world of idiots. Why?

    NGSSoftware alerted Microsoft to this problem on the 17th of May 2002 and
    they have produced a patch that resolves these issues.


    This is January 25 2003 if I'm not mistaken. Are these the same people that leave their cars unlocked with the keys in the ignition?
  • Whoever... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wulffi ( 176311 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:01AM (#5156284) Homepage
    Whoever puts a database outside a firewall? and then leave its external port open???

    Sysadmins like that should be dragged into the street and shot.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:02AM (#5156287)
    I dread the day someone finds a hole in Apache, Sendmail or something really popular and writes a worm like this...

    The point isn't finding the hole, it's people not patching their servers. I mean FFS this was discovered and patched over six months ago. SQL Server is not consumer software - you can't blame Joe Public for not being up-to-speed on net security issues - this is professionals not doing their jobs properly.
  • by caluml ( 551744 ) <slashdot@spamgoe ... minus herbivore> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:02AM (#5156289) Homepage
    Wouldn't it be nicer if the owners of these machines bother patching the fucking things though?

    As far as I'm concerned, boxes SHOULD be able to stand on their own without firewalls. A firewall just adds another layer.

    Sounds like you're advocating armadillo security to me - hard on the outside, soft on the inside.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:05AM (#5156303)
    Depends. If you're protecting your network, you are right: "allow required traffic, block everything else". If you're providing network services to others, they probably don't want to beg you everytime they need to open a port. In that case it's "filter bad traffic, allow everything else".
  • by tom.allender ( 217176 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:08AM (#5156321) Homepage
    Consider a VPN dude.
  • by g4dget ( 579145 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:10AM (#5156326)
    While part of the problem is that Microsoft software sucks particularly badly when it comes to security, something like this can happen with other software as well. The real problem is that we have a software monoculture: we need many more, different, independently implemented software systems. They will all have bugs, but as long as they all have different bugs, we are mostly OK. And that's the real reason why Microsoft's market dominance, in particular on large numbers of small machines run by non-experts, is a problem.
  • Open the gates... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Tyreth ( 523822 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:11AM (#5156327)
    ...let the mandatory "this wouldn't happen if sysadmins upgraded" comments begin!

    Seriously though, you should have upgraded!

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:13AM (#5156331)
    Well, if you actually read it you would see that it says "almost every host on the internet has been receiving" not asking for or sending, like it or not you are getting it, does not imply at all that you are running MS-SQL.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:16AM (#5156345)
    I think it's funny that all of the media outlets are talking about "a worm like Code Red has infected the internet and is causing worldwide slowing of the internet" but they don't mention at all that it has to do with a Microsoft product or that it was a known bug that MS has ignored for almost a year.
  • by mlyle ( 148697 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:22AM (#5156369)
    I don't think it's fair to say this is due to a software monoculture. MS SQL Server only has a 18-19% RDBMS marketshare (38% or so of the Windows database market).

    The argument could be made that with more different types of software, there is a greater risk of DDoS that could cripple the net (although cleanup will be easier in that case, too).

  • by caboosesw ( 215233 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:23AM (#5156373)
    So, every colocated server has a system admin checking it?

    All servers that were placed up there years ago to host one silly site get checked regularly?

    All companies (or individuals) who host sites pay to have them maintained?

    All sysadmins are competent and on top of their patches ... outside of their regular duties which may include making coffee or sorting mail (depending on the size of the organization)?

    There are alot of servers and alot of sites. There aren't alot of "great" admins IMHO. And, often, patches are bundled together when you upgrade a server which may be once EVERY TWO TO FOUR YEARS.

    Reality folks.
  • by caluml ( 551744 ) <slashdot@spamgoe ... minus herbivore> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:24AM (#5156377) Homepage
    Firewalls promote softer security.

    "Oh, it's OK because it's behind the firewall..."

    I think firewalls make people lazy. Imagine if we didn't have firewalls. We'd have to keep our passwords good, our services minimal, and make sure we were running the latest, most secure daemons.
  • by platypus ( 18156 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:29AM (#5156389) Homepage
    You forgot to mention something about algorithms of complexity O(n*log(n)), and the sig:

    Wagner LLC Consulting Co. - Getting it right the first time


    If I took you for someone else, please accept my apology.

  • by Fembot ( 442827 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:30AM (#5156390)
    Actualy I suspect most ISP's probably operate a policy of blocking only problem ports. Imagine how annoying it would be if your ISP/coloc host blocked everything except http, telnet and smtp on the grounds that one day there might be a vunerability in some of the other services that run on other ports... I suspect they wouldnt be my coloc host for long at all
  • by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:32AM (#5156396) Homepage
    What a pathetic overkill response.

    No, it's a very reasonable one. Yes, you still need to patch, use non-blank SA passwords and the other things you suggest, but if you have an SQL server (any SQL server) directly visible to the Internet then you are either a fscking moron or have a very abnormal circumstance. A database server is a backend server, and should be completely hidden from the Internet by not one but two layers of firewalls.

    Basically, in this day and age, your setup from the Internet in to your internal LAN, should be (as a minimum):

    Internet router(s) => Firewall(s) => Web servers (HTTP, mail relays, proxies, VPN termination, etc.) => Firewall(s) => backend servers (SQL, internal mail etc..) => Internal network.

    Some of these networks can quite easily be different ports on the same physical firewall, but I'm limited by ASCII. Alternatively, if you have no backend servers, that segment can obviously be omitted altogether.

    Firewall rulesets can, and should, apply to outbound as well as inbound traffic and allowing traffic to flow cleanly accross multiple firewalls should be limited as much as possible. At a pinch, you could put your backend servers (if any) directly on the internal LAN, and get by with a single, three port firewall, but this should be the absolute minimum setup if you are hosting connections from the Internet. Sticking a two port firewall between your network and the Internet is simply not good enough anymore.

    With resonable DMZ capable firewalls available for less than $500, either as a dedicated box, or old PC running the open source apps of your choice, there is no fiscal reason for even the smallest of companies not to be secure. As ever, the real reason is lack of a clue when it comes to matters of security.

  • by sql*kitten ( 1359 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:33AM (#5156401)
    No reason? Really? What about distributed servers taking to a central database? Desktop software that queries a remote database? Remote administration of a remote database?

    That's what VPNs are for, my friend.
  • Re:wow yeah! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sporty ( 27564 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:36AM (#5156409) Homepage

    Someone really has carefully crafted this worm to try to bring down the net.. and what better time then on a Saturday morning when all admins are away and not planing to work the next day!


    AND verisign will be down for certain hours while .org transitions to PIR/Affilias.
  • Re:wow yeah! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Gothmolly ( 148874 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:42AM (#5156426)
    So you contributed 3 servers to the global pool of zombie boxen, by sheer laziness? Thanks. The patch has been out for 6 months. I think the proper term is "fucktard".
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:48AM (#5156444)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by bruthasj ( 175228 ) <bruthasj@@@yahoo...com> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:48AM (#5156445) Homepage Journal
    When the last set of bind exploits came out no-one said "Unplug all your DNS servers", why is this any different?

    Maybe because bind was built with the Internet in mind. Besides, who in their right mind (I know its redundant), would expose a database server to the Internet, whether that be Oracle, MySQL, PostgreSQL, MSSQL or anything of this nature. It should be hidden completely behind an application layer, preferrably behind a firewall.

    Remember to all: This isn't about bashing Micro$oft per se, but rather bashing sysadmins who expose a database out on the net.
  • by yeOldeSkeptic ( 547343 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:58AM (#5156469)

    I agree. However I also suggest that packets streaming into any port under a gaussian bell curve probability and/or a poisson distribution also be filtered out. I heard that the newest version of the linux kernel has mechanisms for thermodynamically analyzing all packets for signs of randomness. As all computer scientists and mathematicians know, humans are not random and it is therefore unlikely that packets sent from a client will arrive at any given server randomly. Richard Stallman in his PhD thesis ``The Statistical Thermodynamics of Software Evolution'' says as much. Please read the paper for details.

    Sorry, I don't have the URL. I'm not a karma whore.

  • by Curt Cox ( 199406 ) <curtcox@NOsPAm.gmail.com> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:59AM (#5156470)
    Needlessly exposing a database to the Internet is a security policy so bad that not even Microsoft would recommend it.
  • Re:The Fix? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheGreek ( 2403 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:01AM (#5156478)
    They'll sell it to us over six months ago.

    For free.

    Asshead.
  • Re:wow yeah! (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:09AM (#5156492)
    Someone really has carefully crafted this worm to try to bring down the net.

    No, by not installing SP2 which has been out for yonks, you assisted in bringing down the net. You should have installed it when the advisories came out. An IT policy of reaction rather than pre-action where I work would get me the sack.

    By the way, SP3 is out, I suggest you install it before you have to hike into work on a Saturday morning this June ;)
  • Re:Whoever... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by radish ( 98371 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:10AM (#5156493) Homepage
    I have three letters for you:

    V P N

    There is NO excuse for leaving BACKEND services like DBs, appservers, or whatever else visible on the public net. NONE WHATSOEVER. I work on a major website with multiple different data servers and backend applications, all distributed (and load balanced) over 4 physical sites on 2 continents. We use private circuits to handle the inter-site traffic, you could use VPN just as well. But everything vulnerable is buried from the internet behind several layers of firewall. Anything else is sheer lunacy.

    Crappy admins bring this kind of attack on themselves, and alas, on the rest of us too.
  • by HighOrbit ( 631451 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:36AM (#5156577)
    What was that about mission critical applications?
  • This will continue (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NineNine ( 235196 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:43AM (#5156600)
    Worms that do this sort of thing will continue ad infinitum. The reason is that there's no financial detriment to having one of your own boxes act as a zombie and send out tons and tons of packets. None whatsoever. There's no central accountability. That's the way the Net is set up. I don't see any way around it.
  • by essdodson ( 466448 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:56AM (#5156649) Homepage
    No, once this blows over it's time to apply the fucking patch. It's been available for six months mind you.

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @11:48AM (#5156864)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @12:05PM (#5156930)
    Billionaires can't possibly be terrorists!
  • by RodeoBoy ( 535456 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @12:36PM (#5157060) Homepage
    There are a lot of home users/business that have SQL server installed and no firewall set up. Just like code red this thing is infecting personal boxes, therefore adding to the high volumes we see. I have SQL on one of my machines at home, behind two linux based firewalls, and when I use any tool to connect to a database I am given all sorts of choices. Most of the IP addys I see belong to other cable users. I wonder how many have kept up on their patches? The problem is any fool without any training can install this stuff on their computers, I think home users are the main reason that simple worms like this are so successful.
  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @12:41PM (#5157085)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:wow yeah! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @12:43PM (#5157101)
    Ummm, I don't think the parent is funny but rather very serious and very right. The patch for this has been out for 6 moths, there is no excure not to have your systems fixed. It's just laziness and/or stupidity that you would have an unpatched server on the Internet.
  • by tshak ( 173364 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @12:54PM (#5157155) Homepage
    Insightful? How? If you haven't patched PostgreSQL within the last 6 months you are vulnerable to multiple buffer overflow/remote root exploits. If PostgreSQL had the volume of boxes that MSSQL had on the 'net, you can be sure that there'd be a large number of idiot sysadmins who A) don't patch and B) don't know how to use a firewall to protect their systems.
  • by DavidTC ( 10147 ) <slas45dxsvadiv.v ... m ['box' in gap]> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @12:55PM (#5157160) Homepage
    One of the best thing you can do with a firewall is something it's hard to do with a desktop machine...LOG.

    This adds a third layer of security, in addition to the 'secure firewall' and the 'secure desktop'. If, god forbid, someone gets through your firewall, you'll at least know it.

    And I'm talking about logging outgoing traffic, also. After all, if your firewall is set up correctly you can't have any random incoming traffic...but you'll have lots of outgoing. They have NIDS to detect suspicious traffic, or you can just get a huge dump and start filtering out things you know are okay.

    And it's about the only way you'll ever catch that some idiot is running an ICQ from three years ago with a known buffer overflow or something stupid. Neither firewalls nor updated desktop machines can protect you from your own users, only log files of network traffic can do that.

  • by Cramer ( 69040 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @01:46PM (#5157391) Homepage
    Slight correction: compiled access lists are a function of the software (even a the lowly 2500 can have compiled ACLs)

    The problem with ACLs on most Cisco gear is where it gets processed. On all but the most recent (and very expensive) hardware requires all the packets to pass through the RSP or NPE if an access list is applied. I forget what the conditions are for ACLs on a 75xx VIP -- everytime I've been forced to filter traffic it's been process switched through the RSP (it isn't designed to move packets -- it's designed to manage routing) If you happen to have a 7400/7600/NSE, then it's a different story; most of the things needed to filter IP traffic are PXF accelerated.

    The next time someone steps up to say "let's just filter..." cut them off at the word filter. Routers are routers; firewalls are firewalls. Routers are designed to move packets (quickly), not block them. Firewalls are designed to block packets, not move them. Switches move millions of packets per second. Routers move hundreds of thousands of packets per second. Firewalls move around 1000 packets per second.
  • Re:Who's fault? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by HaverOfPeculiarBox ( 644246 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @01:48PM (#5157397)
    Microsoft can patch until they're red in the face, and they do. But it doesn't change the fact that they released a server with a very major and potentially viral vulnerability. Not everyone in the world is going to do their patches the second they're released. Granted, security holes like this are inevitable, but it's just a question of "how much is too much?" Microsoft consistently releases vulnerable products. And if you're going to pay so much more to run an M$ platform, there should at least be some payoff in the area of so-called "trustworthy computing".
  • by RodeoBoy ( 535456 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @02:22PM (#5157566) Homepage
    I think not. There were three simple things that would have saved your ass, first apply the patch, second don't allow everyone in the world to connect to your database server, and last turn off the box if you don't know how to secure it. I also work for a company that uses SQL Server for the backend of our web apps, but I don't have any interesting stories for you. I think our admin was asleep in bed when this all when down, but that is because he did all the hard work ahead of time.
  • Re:wow yeah! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sycraft-fu ( 314770 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @02:28PM (#5157598)
    It really shouldn't have to. Part of a sysdamin's job is to stay current patches. It's not hard to check once a day for all the OSes you manage. More, just about every venurability should be a non-issue if you configure your damn server right in the first place. The only venurability that has actually needed to be patched on any of my Windows webservers in the last couple years was the Code Red one. This SQL bug, the NetBIOS bug and so on were all not relivant since those ports are not available to the Internet or the service is simply shut off since it isn't needed. I patched them anyways of course, but still.

    With a good inital security setup and vigilant upkeep system compramises can be basically eliminated. There is always a possability the a bug will slip through and not get patched quick enough, but generally you can stop 99% of problems by securing the system properly and the other 1% through daily patch monitoring.

    Frankly, I consider this the job of a sysadmin and think you are remiss in your duties if you don't do it.
  • by Tassach ( 137772 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @02:35PM (#5157625)
    There's no good reason whatsoever for a database server to connect directly to the internet - it should only accept connections from trusted hosts. You never let an untrusted application talk directly to the database - if they need to query the database it should be proxied by a piece of middleware. Any DBA who says otherwise is an incompetent idiot.

    You put your webserver on a DMZ, and let it (and only it) talk to the database server through the firewall. Any 2-tier client-server app should be going through a VPN or other secure tunnel.

    The only way to do security is to have multiple layers, and to ruthlessly apply the priciple of least privilidge (you get only those permissions you ABSOLOUTELY need and nothing more).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @02:37PM (#5157635)
    caluml (551744) wrote: "Wouldn't it be nicer if the owners of these machines bother patching the fucking things though?" Um, yes. But many cant be bothered. Like MSN...All their databases run on MS SQL (of course), and as of Saturday morning, the people I know who do tech support for them say everything has been completely shut down...which is why Messenger is down. Hotmail still has *nix at it's base, so it's still up.....
  • by zogger ( 617870 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @02:38PM (#5157639) Homepage Journal
    --I thought this too, but I mean semi seriously. I stayed up real late watching it to make sure it wasn't a 'war' prelude. All the second world potential badguys have a cyber attack part of their assymetrical warfare plans, that's just freely available data you can read about.

    My "oh crap,no internet" communications plans are a heap-o shortwaves and scanners. Better than nuthin. I know all the commercial am and fm and tv stations will all get taken over by the fema boxes, and start spewing dotgov propaganda (moreso than normal), so I'd be more monitoring some more "unregulated" sources.
  • by Featureless ( 599963 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @02:48PM (#5157684) Journal
    OK, help me out here.
    1. The first and foremost way we should have stopped this worm was with firewall rules and the "Server Network Configuration." You don't want to be running anything like this open to the network. Fine.

      The bad assumption people are making here is that there's "no reason to break this rule." Well, unfortunately, this is just not so.

      In my case, a project involved upsizing a client's access database, and then transferring it from my dev machine to an ISP's SQL Server instance. The client has a dynamic IP address, and they would never even consider the cost of using a VPN. My SQL Server ports were open for only 3 weeks, during the transition period, and would have been shut down next week.

    2. Everyone is saying "it's your fault - you didn't install the patch."

      I kept up on service packs (I was up to SP2), and had installed every SQL Server security patch I could find. I had a non-guessable sa password. I got it anyway.

      So why is that? I'm not sure. But I have some observations about the manner in which you're supposed to keep SQL Server (and other MS applications for that matter) current which bear seriously on the issue:

      1. First, there's the "fine print" phenomenon on Microsoft patches. Aside from service packs, these are usually just utterly simplistic "unzip and spray files" installers, occasionally with a few scripts thrown in. Install them in the wrong order, or fail to obey some other 8pt type caveat (and there can be dozens) and you render yourself unprotected again, while maintaining the appearance of being protected. It's likely this is why I wasn't protected despite believing I was.

      2. Where is the complete list of all patches, with downloaded links? What part of Microsoft's site is it prominently displayed on? Where's the order they need to be installed in, with concise instructions?

        Anywhere? I can't find it today. Maybe it exists and I just didn't notice it. That would be atrocious site design. Or maybe a simple, centralized "MS SQL Server 2000 Security Page" with ordered patch list and instructions doesn't even exist. That's just atrocious.

        All I can find is top-level references to service packs and an unqualified link to an all-microsoft download search page. When you select SQL Server 2000 in it, you get everything, not in order, patches thrown together with samples, evaluation downloads, etc.

        And I'm supposed to check here... every week? Sounds sensible on the surface, but if they really wanted to prevent trouble:

      3. Two words: WINDOWS UPDATE! What the hell is wrong with these people that if they have a patch for SQL Server 2000, they can't just throw it into Windows Update? It does a little check - do you have SQLSvr installed? Yes? Do you have the patches installed?

        IT'S SO BLOODY SIMPLE. Yet they didn't bother.

        Compare this to redhat, where there's one tool, up2date, and it works for everything. And you are trivially notified by email when there's an update.

      4. I believe there's a tool that lets you examine your installation to see what service packs are installed and which aren't. I remember vividly running it last summer and discovering that I was up to date. Tellingly, I can't even find it in their site today.

      5. Yes, the service packs. I notice SQL Server 2000 SP3 protects you against this buffer overflow. I also notice this service pack came out last week.

        At any rate, we can at least tell people a convenient fix - go install SQL Server 2000 SP3.


    What's the bottom line? I had a reason to have the port open. And I had a not-for-nothing false sense of security that I was protected against this vulnerability. And most of all, if this was RedHat (for instance) I would never have had this problem - because I would have been notified the moment the patch was available, and would have installed it in a heartbeat, through their single, consistent, easy-to-use interface; and so would tens of thousands of others.
  • by Dynedain ( 141758 ) <slashdot2 AT anthonymclin DOT com> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @03:04PM (#5157757) Homepage
    No, once this blows over it's time to apply the fucking patch. It's been available for six months mind you.

    The patch does not affect routers stupid. Just because his routers are all lit up with massive amounts of traffic, does not mean that his servers are unpatched!

    My link was down for 4 hours from the flooding with everything all lit up, and I'm not even running an SQL server.
  • by Nogami_Saeko ( 466595 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @03:07PM (#5157764)
    Not to mention every starcraft and diablo player :P

    N.
  • by strAtEdgE ( 151030 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @04:19PM (#5158093)
    My intial thought on this was that this isn't MS's fault and we shouldn't be bashing them for this worm; almost every os and daemon out there has had it's holes and exploits and MS has already put out the fix so it's in the admins hands now.

    But on second thought, when I look at the serious impact of the worms that have been created for MS products and their vulnerabilities the last few years, the obvious becomes apparent: admins of MS OS's and processes on them are a LOT slower to patch than any of their counterparts (read: stupider). And the thing is, MS knows this, they specifically market to the stupid/lazy admins. They're the "easy" OS, they sell their products by telling people that you just install them and never worry about them again. I've taken too many MS courses (I am an MSCE and MSCDBA if they haven't expired on me, but I couldn't care less) and not once was patching the operating systems or server processes ever mentioned during all those courses, which is amazing to me.

    And hey, to each their own I guess... apparently there aren't enough intelligent or well read admins around so there is a demand for these products and this approach. But if that's the case, then I think it has to be said that MS has a greater responsibility to create products free from exploits than anyone else, if they're marketing and teaching the idea that you don't need to patch.

    It's by creating that laissez faire attitude towards administration that MS is directly responsible for the proliferation of these worms.
  • two things:

    i run a solitary box at a colo with win2000 advanced server and sql server 2000 on it (not all of us are technical or engrossed enough to deal with linux/ mysql and not all of us have enough $ to have two boxen).

    when i installed sql server, sql server has a server network utility that allows you to control which protocols sql server uses. again, i am not that technical, but without visiting any SANS or other security site, or reviewing any server hardening techniques, or patching anything, it was pretty damn obvious to me to disable the tcp/ip protocol for sql server 2000. it really doesn't take much technical expertise to understand the need for this.

    anyone screaming "apply your damn patches" also doesn't consider another simple statement they should be screaming: "familiarize yourself with the BASICS of your box/ the internet before you run a web server and/ or database."
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 25, 2003 @04:53PM (#5158281)

    This is a bad analogy. A better analogy is this:


    I don't need to lock any doors in my office building because we have a security guard at the front door.

    Firewalls promote an all-or-nothing way of thinking that I routinely encounter at work. Firewalls only mitigate the risk of running insecure services, but the false assurances of perimeter security they offer frequently lead to a careless internal security posture, vulnerable both to insider attack and firewall failure/misconfiguration.

  • Re:Who's fault? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Junta ( 36770 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @05:05PM (#5158349)
    Yes, but I know a lot of sites that wait on the full service packs. Testing every hotfix that comes out of MS is not time effective. The policies I generally see is that companies first wait a month after release to see if anything bad happens with the SP, then take a couple of weeks in a test configuration to make sure nothing site-specific should happen, then install SP if fine. The SP3 was only released recently.

    The problem is that with MS, there are two levels of fixes, hotfixes and service packs. hotfixes could be anything from a slight cosmetic bug that isn't worth the time to worry about in a professional environment, to a critical vulnerability. There really isn't a huge sense of urgency at the word 'hotfix'. They really need a separate category of 'critically needed patch' for stuff that can cause problems of this scale if left unpatched.
  • Uhm.. you're probably completely susceptible to this. You see, that little clicky thingie you clicked in the thingie was written by the same people that sent you that software with the bug that causes this problem.

    You, and the rest of you non-engrossed, non-technical people who don't have $15.00 to put a NIC in a 486 firewall that you can pick up at the dump, but plenty of money to shell out system upgrades every few years... You're causing this problem. You, personally.

    First, by buying and deployng a server OS by an untrustworthy organization, followed by not even complying with thier reccomendations of protecting, securing, and updating that server.

    Then, by saying "Whew! Dodged that bullet" after you CLICKED ON A CHECK BOX is not quite the same as.. oh.. patching it, securing it behind a firewall and testing it for packet traffic... THESE are the "basics" of your box and the internet. Not what your manual, the context sensitive help, or what MS' Marketing department tell you.

    Was that non-technical enough for you? Stop being smug, and stop being part of the problem.
  • by sjames ( 1099 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @06:25PM (#5158692) Homepage Journal

    Sounds like a damn good advice to me. Why the hell should either of those be exclusive?

    It's very BAD advice! What happens when you blindly apply the patch and find out your mission critical app won't run anymore? A little QA testing would show you that on a test system instead of your live servers. If a firewall rule can protect you, use that, then QA the patch and apply if it is safe.

    Consider that sometimes, the 'security patch' just disables a feature that 'nobody uses anyway' (except for your mission critical app, that is). Other times, it doesn't fix the hole, it just changes it's shape a little. In that case, you go from a hole you know about and can guard against at the firewall to one you don't know exists that has less information about it available.

    It's not purely a dig at MS (though their track record for quality patches is spotty), any sudden change to widely deployed software runs the risk of causing a problem for sombody's configuration.
  • by Rain ( 5189 ) <slashdot@t. t h e m u ffin.net> on Saturday January 25, 2003 @08:10PM (#5159180) Homepage
    There are two reasons an enterprise setup costs so much:

    1. Fear sells.
      Seriously. I would guess that some of the most succesful marketing strategies are based on this fact.
    2. Industrial grade equipment is expensive.
    3. I've worked for a few ISPs, and I can tell you right off that this is another large factor. If you take, for example, Cisco's equipment--The hardware can get
    4. very expensive; however, hardware failures are very rare. This is important when downtime =~ lost money.

    (otoh, IOS isn't always the most stable piece of software, but I tend to run LD/ED releases because I need the features, roughly equivalent to beta versions. A software failure is also much less of a catastrophe than a hardware failure--it's much faster to restart a router than to wait for hardware.)

    While a Linux/BSD box running iptables/ipf is dirt cheap, it's not hard to imagine why it might not sit well with the suits in larger companies. I would wager that PC hardware isn't quite as reliable, either--especially since nearly all hardware firewalls/routers use flash as the primary means of storage rather than a hard drive.

  • Re:ATM's out... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by redwoodtree ( 136298 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @09:58PM (#5159634)
    I couldn't agree with you more. This is just bullshit, our economy is now dependent on M$ crap. There's just so many things wrong with that I can't even begin to possibly list them. Why the hell are banks using public interent for ATM connections in the first place? Why would ALL the ATMs be effected? We need answers, answers.
  • by plnrtrvlr ( 557800 ) on Saturday January 25, 2003 @10:42PM (#5159791)
    OK.... so at least half of the problem is the sys admins, though some of you seem to think it's all their fault for not patching the systems... You must all have nice cushy jobs where they pay you to stay on top of things! The problem is, not every sys admin gets paid to do what he'd like, and not every one of those ppl have been with a company long enough to FIND everything that needs fixing, never mind FIX it all. They don't get paid enough or else told "no overtime" and things just don't get done... Sure blame the admins, the guy who just took over the mess that was left for him when the last guy quit two weeks ago is surely to blame, especially since he's so digusted with the task he's found himself mired in (not to mention the low salary for 24/7 service or else a NO OVERTIME policy) that he's pondering his next resume and cover letter... And no, I'm not a sys admin, I'm a physics student, a self taught computer junkie and a former construction worker, disabled from being a grunt. i just know scapegoating when I see it, and it's all too easy to blame "the man" when in fact, he's getting screwed just like the rest of us.
  • by duffbeer703 ( 177751 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @01:15AM (#5160255)
    Middleware is another name for "Proxy Server" or "Firewall". Having middleware adds security as long as the application is designed well.

    In general, middleware, firewalls, proxies, and VPNs add to overall security. They do this by pushing the most important piece of the overall system, the database and data as far away from the public as possible.

    In many cases though, a 3-tier or similar configuration adds more needless complexity which creates more problems then it solves. I recently did some work at a datacenter that provides directory services for a large (500,000 user, 350,000 host) enterprise. This datacenter literally has two racks of PIX firewalls providing access to one rack of LDAP servers!

    Whether a "hacker" or an admin makeing a mistake takes down access to a web or middleware server which denies access to data, the application is still down.

    There is no general rule to "secure" services -- you need to make an intelligent decision based on your budget, staffing and application. Multi-layered, locked down configuration cause plenty of grief to regular users and often pose no challenge to intruders, who exploit bugs to get full access to everything anyway.

    In plenty of cases a single, secureed server providing all services is a simpler and affordable solution.
  • by jpop32 ( 596022 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @01:16PM (#5162291)
    My only question is that if this is so important, why do they banish it to parts unknown (pardon, the depths of their Technet site) rather than placing it in everybody's Start menu?

    Actually, we already did this bit on Slashdot. It was back when MS released SP3 for Win2k which basically did just that (installed an automated patch collection/installation system, placed it in the start menu and system tray). And, IIRC, back then the consensus was that it's A Bad Thing(tm). :-)

    Anyways, it's there if you want it. Ignorance is no excuse.

  • by jpop32 ( 596022 ) on Sunday January 26, 2003 @01:20PM (#5162306)
    My dumbass is actually running SQL Server 2000...my switch was lit up completely. I've never seen the traffic light glow more solid than the connection light.

    Well if you took the time and installed the patches (which have been out for some time, also included in SP3, BTW), you wouldn't have been a part of the problem, you would have been a part of the solution.

    Leave it to Mircosoft to crash the internet.

    Leave it to the lazy and incompetent, I say...

I've noticed several design suggestions in your code.

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