Sun Opens First Linux Competency Center 128
McGarnacle writes "Looks like our friends at Sun have opened the first Linux training centers at the headquarters of a Belleville, Ontario firm: beONix Technology. Now there's a worthwhile summer activity for the kids :)"
Why Sun? (Score:3, Interesting)
I could think of many more companies that have a more vested interest in seeing linux succeed.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why Sun? (Score:2)
Makes sense, I'm just surprised it's sun who is doing it.
Re: (Score:1)
Sun, the Original Open System (Score:3, Interesting)
Bottom line is that they practically invented the idea of "Open Systems", and were a pioneer with the SunOSs (essentially a BSD fork). In the late 80s, I was working at AT&Ts Summit, NJ facility (later to be spun off and sold as USO, Unix Software Operation). Bill Joy came to speak at a nearby AT&T location, and I heard him give his rant on "the vendor motel" (you know, you check in, but you don't check out). At that time, this was more directed at IBM, DEC, HP, and anyone who was still maintaining their own non-Unix OS. MicroSoft wasn't even on anyone's radar screen then, but then, you can't blame them, Windows 3.0 hadn't come out yet, so it was hard to consider it more than a toy.
In the end, Sun continues to deliver a lot of value to their customers. It's going to cost a bit more than buying commodity PC hardware and using Linux, but in my experience it is a lot more foolproof. You can probably get most of this with the best PC vendors, and Linux, but the service and support will be better from Sun. You have the commitment of a single vendor to deliver a complete hardware/software system. All of the Linux distribution houses are in the mode of packaging what they get from the community, not putting together a complete system (well, that's my impression anyway, it would be nice to see a vendor prove me wrong).
It is fair to say Sun has been reluctant to fully support Linux on their hardware, but I see that position as well justified. Until recently, Solaris was significantly more stable than Linux, so not many customers wanted it. Now, with so many huge server farms with many x86 boxes running Linux, and say a few larger Suns running databases and such, I can see wanting to run Linux on the Sun servers too. Your going to have less support cost for an all Linux environment than a Sun/Linux environment. For Sun, it doesn't matter if you run the box on Solaris or Linux, they aren't making much money on the software anyway. In fact, it probably costs less to support the user on Linux, so it is conceivable that they eventually drop Solaris altogether.
It's really the same dynamic is IBM has with AIX and Linux. As long as there is a strong demand from the customer base for Solaris, or AIX, they will keep them going. At some point, it will be attractive to port a couple of distictive tools to Linux and be done with it. These tools would be the ones that keep the holdouts for AIX/Solaris hanging around. It also means that Linux is just at stable as AIX/Solaris (I would say it is pulling close or even by now, but this is a difficult thing to measure).
Re:Why Sun? (Score:1)
Re:Why Sun? (Score:2)
It's not productive to quibble about the differences between UNIX variants. I *know* that a minority of Linux users hate to be lumped in with UNIX, but from a user's point of view there's little difference.
Re:Why Sun? (Score:4, Insightful)
I totally disagree.. And most likely you would to if you ever installed and administered Solaris.
Linux is totally beautiful when it comes to simplicity, the
Linux is a "unix clone" designed for PC's whereas Solaris is designed for large computers. Creating light or thin clients in linux, backed up by the huge support of hardware, and running solaris on the servers is perhaps what Sun has in mind, Solaris on the workstation is too clumsy _imho_.
Re:Why Sun? (Score:2)
Re:Why Sun? (Score:2)
Every distribution is different, often very different. Every distribution is full of crap you'll never need, and each one requires a different set of tools and knowledge to safely remove said crap.
Solaris is unchanging, predictable, and easier to pare down than any Linux I've ever worked with. Indeed, Sun are generally accused of not supplying enough apps with the OS, but I think that's good. You just add in what you need and it's easier to keep track of just what's installed. Keeps things simple.
As a hotch-potch of BSD, SysV, with however many desktops, scripting languages and all, backed up by scant documentation, I often find it hard to believe Linux was ever designed at all, for *any* hardware. I certainly wouldn't tout it as being "beautifully simple".
Re:Why Sun? (Score:1)
From THIS user's POV, there is definitely a difference between Solaris and Linux.
First off- Linux means free & open source. Last I checked Solaris would release source, but if you wanted to modify it you had to pay some sort of licensing fee. Linux is typically without those restrictions.
Second off- All *nix distributions, even those within the Linux family, have quite a few differences that could throw a casual (or even advanced) user off. Try telling me that the average Joe user could be placed on gentoo, Redhat, Solaris, and OS X and never know the difference.
Unix variants are just that. Variants. They may share themes and source code, and run the same programs, and have the same GUI, but they still vary by quite a bit, and it's foolish to say a user wouldn't know the difference. It's even more foolish to say that a Unix user wouldn't see much difference, as the typical Unix user is far more astute than say... The average consumer of say... Windows or the Mac OS. (Note: I'm saying "AVERAGE" so please don't jump to defend your favorite OS--I'm sure you're far above average.)
Furthermore, it's about choice. Choice drives the market. If someone likes a certain flavor of OS, it's in their best interest to evangelize and make it known that that OS has a million and two benefits over the other OS. Word of mouth means higher popularity. Higher popularity means a better chance of survival. So "quibbling" over a flavor of *nix, particularly when it comes down to "Sun" vs "Redhat/SuSE/Mandrake/Debian" is quite productive. It sparks the curiousity of the party on the other side, and raises the liklihood that that person might try, like, switch, and strengthen the userbase of the *nix you know and love.
The person you responded to had a very valid point. Even though Sun has a Linux, their primary pushing point is Solaris. If MS decided to have a Linux and opened a Linux school, do you think it would be a fabulous idea for MS to have a Linux school, or would you think that it was just another attempt at world domination?
"Hello dear student, today we will discuss Linux administration (and why you want to be on our OS instead). We will discuss the pros (not pro-enough) and the cons (totally reason to switch to our other OS and pay us a fortune in licensing fees) of Linux as an operating system."
-Sara
Re:Why Sun? (Score:1)
Quibbling in this instance is good - it's good to see the differences (e.g. SVR4 pkgadd vs rpm vs apt etc.).
On the whole, it's best for all *nix users if people find the *nix that suits them - I have very hazy recollections from marketing school along those lines - the more differentiation there is, the bigger the market is, etc.
However, I didn't finish the course because I discovered the internet that summer, so what do I know anyway? :)
Re:Why IBM? (Score:2, Insightful)
Looks to me that this logic works with other companies as well. HP comes to mind as well. The only type of company I would be suprised to find listed in a statement like this is a pure software company that sells an OS. (Microsoft and Novell come to mind first...)
If the hardware manufacturers support Linux then that can only be a good thing.
Kent
Re:Why Sun? (Score:1)
HOWEVER, Sun has contributed many many things to the open source community such has Grid Engine (clustering software) and has also funded alot of development in the gnome community.
i will say they were a little late to the ball game, but that shouldnt detract from the positive contributions they have given to the community.
sign me up.. (Score:2, Funny)
it's exactly where i want to be spending time in january! how about some nice caribean trainning centers i can get my manager to send me off to. i'd go to class honest
Re:sign me up.. (Score:2, Informative)
When I got up this morning, it was a balmy -23 degrees (-9 Fahrenheit to the unwashed) and my nostrils would stick closed when I breathed in.
Caribbean? Pah!
Re:sign me up.. (Score:1)
Re:sign me up.. (Score:2)
So at least the kids won't be distracted from their training
Re:sign me up.. (Score:1)
Belleville can't be that bad... you have a race track 'next door'.
I go to Shannonville to watch the motorcycle races.
Re:sign me up.. (Score:2)
Re:sign me up.. (Score:1)
Cobalt Raq updates (Score:4, Informative)
They've managed to introduce remote exploits via their alleged Security Hardening Package, and recent posts on the Cobalt developers lists show that their latest kernel update caused some machines to crash unrecoverably. They've promised an updated PHP on the Raq4 for an age now, but no sign.
That, coupled with the inordinate delay in patching OpenSSL when slapper appeared makes me a tad more unhappy than I used to be. Used to be a good service, but now seems to be in shambles.
Cheers,
Ian
Re:Cobalt Raq updates (Score:2)
No kidding. Fix out from OpenSSL.org in June, and Sun still hasn't gotten it packaged and published yet.
eh? (Score:2, Insightful)
Red Hat have a couple of hundred, and I'd be willing to bet that they are more Linux centric that Sun would be... this reminds me of their toe-in-the-water efforts over Star Office licensing. They know they can't compete, so they find a niche they can offer, and training/support is the weakest area IMHO...
Internal Sun unrest (Score:5, Interesting)
The way I understand it, they aren't happy with the level of maturity in the Linux kernel *compared with the Solaris kernel*. He seemed to imply that the scalability in Linux wasn't as good, and felt Sun should be pushing Solaris more than Linux.
Don't take this as Linux bashing - I use it a lot at home and work, I just wondered if other developers felt similarly.
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:2)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:2, Funny)
Wait a minute...How would he know that?
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:2)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:1)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:1)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:2)
Re:Internal Sun unrest (Score:2)
Besides, not everyone needs to run 40 CPU monsters.
As long as Linux can chug along on "smallish" boxes and perform reasonably well, Solaris "superiority" really shouldn't matter. In the domain where most shops actually operate, the hardware architecture is far more critical.
What RAID level your storage subsystem is running is probably going to matter more than Linux vs. Solaris.
Uh oh,,, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Uh oh,,, (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Uh oh,,, (Score:2)
Re:Uh oh,,, (Score:2)
SUN opens Linux Competency center (Score:1)
Wrong directions (Score:5, Informative)
Bellville is two hours east of Toronto.
Cost? (Score:1, Offtopic)
*wish* they would open some free (as in beer) training centers for some of us. Afterall, I can download the software for free, I can scan news groups and ask questions, but as far as someone testing my knowledge (which would help me know what areas I needed to improve), it looks like I have to pay for it.
And there's nothing wrong with getting money off of this as far as I can tell, I'm just dreaming. And no, most LUG's don't do this...at least not the ones in my area.
Re:Cost? (Score:1)
I see I left out that I do plan to build my competencies in Linux and then do volunteer/non-proft education centers in the area.
I think I would then fulfill what I was asking about.
Again, thanks for the constructive critism and deep thoughts.
Re:Cost? (Score:3, Interesting)
Java and Linux... v MS (Score:4, Interesting)
This move by Sun means that one of the largest HW vendors is looking at Linux as an OS.
Linux as the OS, Java as the environment, J2EE as the application platform.
IBM have gone this way, now Sun, HP already have too..... interesting times ahead.
Re:Java and Linux... v MS (Score:2)
I've been using J2EE on winNT/2k, Solaris and linux and i would tell that Linux was the worst case of scenario counting slow performance and amount of bugs.
I am not fun of Java after all, but if you want to (have to, are forced to) use Java, take either Solaris or Windows, depends on your hardware budget.
Personally, I prefer to develop Python based web applications with Zope. But that is off-topic.
Re:Java and Linux... v MS (Score:1)
I haven't experienced any problems and "j2ee" (btw I use an application server not "j2ee") can beat zope on my solaris box. zope works really badly for multi cpu machines
Re:Java and Linux... v MS (Score:1)
If you are not fond of java (translated from your "not fun of java"), then chances are you are doing things wrong or simply do not understand what you are doing with it.
The application I am working on must run on everything thrown against it (HP-UX, Solaris, Windows, Linux so far), and windows is the WORST performer so far. In my opinion it has more to do with Windows memory management, etc. than anything Java has control over.
Re:Java and Linux... v MS (Score:2)
Not to mention Linux taking on the abilities to work even huge servers and advanced storage arrays....
I love Solaris and Sun gear, but I see trouble for them ahead.
Um Bellville ? (Score:1)
Belleville, population 36000. There are only 20 or so Linux/Unix users in the whole city and surrounding area. I can give you the names of ALL of them. The surrounding area includes Trenton, Picton, Bloomfield, Milford and the famous Sandbanks Provincial Park. (Largest freshwater beach in the world, largest freshwater sand dunes in the world. Its our only claim to fame)
Why Belleville is what I would like to know?
If you don't know it, its a bunch of old farmers who don't own computers and can't afford them. Cable and DSL internet are new, (ie past 8 months). Dial-Up is the standard internet, and for 90% of ppl its their only option (save satellite, but if you can't afford a decent machine, how could u afford that?)
There are no tech companies in Belleville or surrounding area. Save a small windows help desk company (Stream) where if you don't have a high school diploma, you can get a job. But if you've got an education, you can't get a job there.
I really don't know what they were thinking. The locals have absolutely no interest in computers. And why would anyone WANT to come here?
So if your boss sends you to belleville, well, i hope you like to drink yourself stupid because thats about all there is to do here.
Re:Um Bellville ? (Score:2, Informative)
Meeting them halfway, I guess...& speculation (Score:2)
Re:Um Bellville ? (Score:1)
I remember doing my co-op placement at Loyalist at
Quit bitching, and open your eyes fool.
JON
P.S. netreach used to give shell accounts if you asked....
p.s.s and yes the BBS scene was very strong!
p.s.s.s. looking forward to moving back...
I think it's simple really (Score:5, Interesting)
I think Sun is starting to realize that Solaris is a dead end market share wise. This is no reflection on the quality of Solaris, just that the only major OS's to experience growth are Windows and Linux (and maybe OSX to a very small degree). Besides, companies like the idea of standardizing on a platform. For many that choice is Microsoft. If they don't like Micro$oft, then maybe they'll go with something else. But they probably wont go with three different things... for example Linux, Solaris, and AIX. So a smart company will give the customer what it wants- the ability to use standardize on a platform of choice.
Debian GNU/Solaris (Score:2)
Dear Scott:
There's nothing I'd rather have for Christmas than Debian GNU/Solaris. By this, I mean Debian's look&feel with a Solaris kernel under the hood. Yes, I know Debian GNU/Linux supports the SPARC architecture, but I want the world-renowned performance of Sun's very own kernel plus the integration I expect from an OS + hardware vendor. Oh, and I want an enterprise-quality support contract.
Solaris, as an operating system, leaves something to be desired, both in the bundled applications and the ease of administration. Rather than cozy up to RPMs and port Gnome, I think you should just toss the baby out with the bathwater. Everyone knows that Debian is the best Linux distribution, and since they're already working on ports to Hurd and NetBSD your developers have some examples to study.
It would make me so happy, Scott. Please, pretty please?
You know the old saying... (Score:2)
It's obvious that the open source development model and Linux is going to be the dominating force in computing. The only way that either can even be slowed down is through crooked litigation, which will not fly in the rest of the world.
Linux is the Micheal Jordan of operating systems. You can't stop him, only hope to contain him. Linux is Micheal Jackson, Microsoft is Tito. A mega-rich and powerful Tito, but still Tito nontheless.
Re:You know the old saying... (Score:1)
How is that obvious? It isn't currently, and linux/open source has not made any major effort to become the dominant force. Right now the dominant model is microsoft, and hell even Macs are better off than linux and open source, and due to usability issues linux is going to have a hard time for years to come.
Name change imminent? (Score:2)
So Sun is calling this venture "Beonix" [beonix.com]?
Isn't that name taken by a vendor of a Mozilla browser distribution [beonex.com]?
I guess now the shoe's on the other foot... [phoenix.com]
Re:Name change imminent? (Score:1)
Did you even bother to look at that link? How about the other stories? It seems fairly obvious that Beonix is a small tech company, not a "venture" so dubbed by Sun.
oops (Score:1)
OOPS! Shouldn't post with my bonus while half asleep.
Take 2:
Now that a company called "Beonix" is working together with established powerhouse Sun Microsystems, does anybody see a danger of a name conflict with "Beonex Communicator"?
We are in dire need of Linux Competency Tests (Score:2)
I'd like to see courseware and a test that I can take at my local testing center like the MCSE tests.
But what would be the agreed upon criteria? What would be the certification title?
I have an idea though! How about the "Linux Competency Test." Makes perfect sense. And we can get cool acronyms out of it like "LiCT" or something like that.
Keep the exams at a higher level (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the problems that I see with the MCSE exam is that anyone can go to a bookstore, pick up a book, and then pass the exam(s). If testing for Linux becomes popular, I would hope that they give the test some integrity. One should have necessary "keyboard" time before becoming certified. Sort of like trade work, they have journeymen programs.
Before it was a good assumption that is someone was a Linux admin, they knew their stuff. Let's keep it that way.
Belleville?! (Score:1)
Re:Where is the dog buried in this??? (Score:1)
Re:Where is the dog buried in this??? (Score:2)
Eh? OpenOffice.org is one of the better things that have happened to linux.
Re:Where is the dog buried in this??? (Score:1)
How is it a dirty trick? The codebases were the same and OpenOffice caught up with StarOffice extremely quickly.
Re:Where is the dog buried in this??? (Score:1)
Re:Where is the dog buried in this??? (Score:2, Informative)
Sun did not "take away" the free version - they renamed it OpenOffice, and I'm sure that with a little effort, even you can manage to find that online.
Secondly, they were very open about the entire Star Office saga - there are numerous articles in news archives about how it was not being adopted by businesses *precisely because it was free*. Once they branched off the free version, they were able to start charging (and even then, they charge minuscule amounts compared to other office suites). Where did you get this "high price" from?
The AC below is wrong about one thing - you are not a typical Linux "hippie" - they at least are generally more well informed than you obviously are.