SGI launches R16000 352
nkrgovic writes " SGI has just launched a new CPU - the long expected R16000. The new CPU works on 700MHz, has 4MB secondary cache and more goodies.
For now the new CPU is only used in SGI's Fuel workstations, but we should expect to see it pretty soon in SGI's Origin servers as well. With new high density compute nodes this should make the Origin's the fastest supercomputing server per square foot."
Re:Behind the times. (Score:4, Informative)
SGI's workstation line is largely unimpressive, especially for the 99% case of computer users, hell, even engineers.
The problem is, for a small set of jobs, for a small set of people, nothing else is suficient - at any price. You're either using an SGI, or the work isn't taking place.
That market is continuing to erode, but i dont think it will ever dissolve completely. I think eventually SGi will effectively become a US govt subsidized entity. SGI continues to build the systems that only governments need and only government agencies can afford.
Clustering has nothing to do with the markets SGI sells in. Please don't mention it, it makes me think you don't know what you're talking about.
Do you ?
Re:It runs IRIX? (Score:4, Informative)
SGI will continue to make investments in IRIX and MIPS until it makes sense to move all of their products and customers to Linux on IA64, and that may not happen until theres something better than Linux+IA64 out
Linux isn't there yet for the bread and butter SGI customers. Neither is IA64.
Re:too little too late (Score:2, Informative)
Mhz Muppets (Score:4, Informative)
Disclaimer: I know ive ignored how much work can be done in an instruction, pipelineing and other features, but im sick of all this idiotic posts that think mhz is anything but a meaningless indication of processor speed, like a bogomip
Re:Behind the times. (Score:4, Informative)
You must remember, the R16000 is 64-bit, not 32-bit.
Also, it has 4000k of L2 cache, not 256k or 512k.
Also, out-of-order instruction execution, x86 chips can't do this.
you are trying to compare two things that are completely different.
Re:Behind the times. (Score:4, Informative)
You, sir, are almost completely uninformed. The R16000 is an R10000 variant, just like the R12000 and R14000 before it. It is not a vector processor, and has no vector units. The R16000 is, furthermore, a desktop processor in its own right, because it's currently being used in the Fuel workstation.
Incidentally, SGI divested itself of Cray some time ago. Cray was bought by a company called Tera Computing, which then changed its name to Cray. They're building the SV2 vector supercomputer now, using their own processors, and they also have an arrangement with NEC to market the SX-6 in the United States with a Cray logo, but that's strictly a resale agreement.
Re:Behind the times. (Score:5, Informative)
For the record, the R10000 series can run either 32-bit or 64-bit code. All other things being equal, the 32-bit version of a program will run faster than the 64-bit version; you can fit more 32-bit ints into cache at once than 64-bit ints, so the 64-bit version of a program generally suffers more cache misses than its 32-bit counterpart.
On an SGI box, you don't compile for 64-bit unless you absolutely have to address more than 2 GB of virtual memory.
Also, it has 4000k of L2 cache, not 256k or 512k.
That's pretty puny for an SGI. The processors they use in the Origin servers have typically been equipped with 8 MB of secondary cache; the 4 MB version must be just for the workstations, to keep costs manageable.
you are trying to compare two things that are completely different.
On this point, however, you're 100% correct.
SPEC (Score:4, Informative)
OK there are no numbers for 16K but here the numbers for 600Mhz 14K
SPECint2000 500
SPECfp2000 529
For comparison
UltraSPARC III Cu 1.015GHz
SPECint2000 576
SPECfp2000 775
AMD XP 2800
SPECint2000 913
SPECfp2000 843
INTEL P4 2.8
SPECint2000 1040
SPECfp2000 1048
Re:Behind the times. (Score:5, Informative)
While it was the first implementation of MIPS4, and it was an FP monster, and had a huge TLB for the time, it really wasn't so hot as a general purpose CPU.
A far as "true 64 bit" in the R4000, which version of IRIX ran on R4k with 64 bit pointers ? 6.2 and 6.5 certainly don't on my IP22.
When the R3k came out it was the first real example of commercially FAST and successful RISC design. It was used in multiple machines from multiple companies. SGI didn't "really" up the ante again until R10k, which was their first offering that was superpipelined and superscalar.
Finally, regarding SGI and clustering:
SGI is not price-competitive with shared-nothing clusters of PCs or Alphas. Nor is it trying to be. You probably know what the O2k/O3k systems are good at and how they differ from any other system being sold today, othewise you wouldn't have responded to me. I think my statement is valid --- the SGI big iron solves problems that shared nothing clusters CANT. Furthermore, they're so much more expensive than shared nothings that if you need shared nothing and buy origin, you're silly.
Re:Behind the times. (Score:2, Informative)
"Also, out-of-order instruction execution, x86 chips can't do this."
Bull.
x86 has done this since the introduction of the Pentium Pro.
Re:too little too late (Score:4, Informative)
Two way systems are not data center solutions that IBM, Sun, and SGI are competing for with this kind of hardware.
Even if they were, you're ignoring the fact that you cannot physically pack as many CPUs with Intel or AMD as with MIPS, Power4, or Sparc into a chassis. Part of the reason they are clocked slower is because you need to balance heat management with performance density when you're dealing with the big servers.
These boxes are about aggregate compute and storage power per dollar, not about whether the individual CPU cores smoke. The only place you see these cores as singletons is workstations (Single-cored "servers" are usually just the same or similar motherboards as a workstation, but in a case that has a beefier power supply and room for a useful number of hot-swap cages.)
You try and pack 32 Intel cores at 3GHz into a chassis that will handle the same number of MIPS cores, and the only thing you're going to get is voltage underflow from an overloaded power supply. Beef up the power supply, and within minutes you're going to be getting that wonderful whiff of frying, overheated electronics.
Raw performance of a core is only one factor in engineering a complete server. Anyone who claims otherwise has clearly not been involved with the hardware end of this industry.
Re:SGI's reality distortion field: fully operation (Score:2, Informative)
Bottom line, if you need high precision integer colours, you still need an SGI. Of course, there's not many people who do, and someone will probably be doing it on the PC in a couple of years, so it's looking pretty grim for SGI as that's one of their few remaining technical advantages in the graphics workstation market.
Re:I'm sure you'll hear about this one.. (Score:1, Informative)
more registers.
rotating registers to make function calls way faster.
shorter pipeline.
no need for cisc-to-risc translation layer.
64-bits (want to see who encrypts a block of data faster?).
8mb on die cache.
ass-kicking memory bandwidth.
and it's safer, too, with things like X-bit per-page memory protection, to stop many common exploit types.
most of these hold true for the mips chips as well. the R16000 has 128 general purpose registers (?). x86 has 4.
SGI uses and other tidbits (Score:3, Informative)
But... keep in mind that it consumes far less than 20 watts of energy (and thus gives off little heat) and will eventually find itself packed in with other CPUs into Origin servers/supercomputers. The CPU bricks for the O3900, for example, have 16 CPUs in just 4U of rack space.
SGI's ccNUMA MIPS/IRIX machines are typically used for tasks that are severely I/O bound, that is, their strong point is chugging thru massive amounts of data where raw per-node CPU power is important, but not the largest factor. Somewhat like a mainframe, but with less redundancy and more CPU power.
BUT (Score:3, Informative)
64 bit support... (Score:3, Informative)
64-bit support was first supported with IRIX 6.0 running atop R4000 and up.
However, certain platforms do not support 64-bit pointers. IP12/IP20 (Indigo) IP22 (Indy/Indigo2), and IP32 (O2) are among those that don't. This is due to memory contraints and other assorted issues.
Most, if not all, Onyx and Challenge (L and XL only) machines support 64-bit pointers with IRIX 6.0 and up.
Onyx2, Origin, Octane, and Fuel certainly do.
Re:It runs IRIX? (Score:3, Informative)
You can do it with OS X [uiuc.edu]...but in a swimming pool.
blakespot
die size (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Whose chip is it anyway? (Score:1, Informative)
In case we /. SGI.... (Score:1, Informative)
* Four-way superscalar, 64-bit architecture
* Out-of-order instruction execution
* Five separate execution units
* MIPS 4 instruction set
* 32KB two-way set-associative on-chip instruction cache
* 4MB fast secondary cache
Key Architecture Features
* 3.2GB/sec main memory peak bandwidth
* 1.6GB/sec system-to-graphics interconnect
* VPro graphics
* MIPS RISC processing, 64K primary cache, 4MB secondary cache
* Optimized 200 MHz front-side bus
* 32- or 64-bit binaries
* Priority I/O
* Integrated PCI
Re:SGI is dying (Score:2, Informative)
Here are the figures you can't imagine:
32% Government & Defense
28% Science
21% Manufacturing
12% Media
7% Energy
Or looking at it another way
Servers accounted for 38% of fiscal 2001 revenues; Global services, 37%; Visual Workstations, 19% and Other, 6%
See:
http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/press_releases/2002
http://www.sgi.com/company_info/investors/prese
http://www.sgi.com/newsroom/factsheet.html